Mr. Flying:

I'm just an old dumb American country boy. Why can't you just say what you mean without all this symbolism?

But...but...but... I did & then you misinterpreted it & said

Simply put, it seems you are as intense in your dislike of the Military

So you know I was just trying to explain it to you & that I did not dislike the military ......

Dont feel bad about country life though.....I'm rural too

Reminds me of the old Aussie political joke where a rural member of parliament stands up and proudly proclaims-

"I'm a country member!"

A working class voice from the back of the chamber replies-

"Yeah, we remember".

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

Actually no

Politicians for the most part are just the ventriloquists dummies

To certain degree. It's impossible to achieve power now without substantial financial backing. Any reader of my posts would know I would have hoped for an Obama presidency but I still suspect McCain lost because he ran out of money. (OK,OK, Ms Palin didn't help much either).

Wonder what sort of a president McCain would have made? The extreme right hated him so he must have had some good points.

chances are that with the dems having the majority that he would not have been able to do anything but then again that may end up being better than what is happening now.

Go on.

Go on.

by that I assume you are asking for examples of what I see as what is happening now. I can not help but remember how the blues called the red a bunch of drunken sailors because of the way they spent. However it is also fair to say that during that period of time the levy system which should have been repaired during the Clinton years failed. 911 occurred and the ensuing military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, natural disasters around the world also account for some of the monies spent and of course the pork but during this first 12 months of the obama admin the blues have been spending money like drunken sailors on meth, it is like they are blind to the balance sheet and continue to spend money that does not exists hence when I say what is happening now I mean the bankrupting of US economy under the guise of working for ALL the people etc…..

I can not help but remember how the blues called the red a bunch of drunken sailors because of the way they spent.

but during this first 12 months of the obama admin the blues have been spending money like drunken sailors on meth, it is like they are blind to the balance sheet and continue to spend money that does not exists hence when I say what is happening now I mean the bankrupting of US economy under the guise of working for ALL the people etc…..

All true & makes one wonder.......

What we seem to need is a fresh start....not blue nor red as they are ultimately controlled by the same.

Also a sound monetary system wouldn't hurt for starters.

.... after the revolution comrade.

Not exactly Afghanistan but interesting none the less.

Coincidentally at roughly ha ha ha 5:55 you see a funny thing...Rumsfeld shaking Saddams hand & giving weaponry back when Saddam was a useful tool to them.

Mr. Naam:

I wouldn't dare cross verbal swords with you. I would simply wilt under the criticism a German citizen would give me on invasions and nation building.

it goes without saying Mr. Chuck that a rebuttal of this convincing magnitude was expected. i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo? being a German is reason enough to blame me. what is left for me is to hang my head in shame.

p.s. but if you are fair you will admit that i had nothing to do with the downfall of the Roman Empire!

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

Mr. Naam:

I wouldn't dare cross verbal swords with you. I would simply wilt under the criticism a German citizen would give me on invasions and nation building.

it goes without saying Mr. Chuck that a rebuttal of this convincing magnitude was expected. i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo? being a German is reason enough to blame me. what is left for me is to hang my head in shame.

p.s. but if you are fair you will admit that i had nothing to do with the downfall of the Roman Empire!

Au contraire Doctor, it's historically proven that the barbarians who dismantled the Roman Empire came from what is now Germany. Apparently for something as mundane as the none payment of wages, the Goths etc being the equivalent of Blackwater in those days, but that's neither here nor there.

An ancestor is assumed to be involved unless you produce a family tree to prove otherwise.

Mr. Naam:

I wouldn't dare cross verbal swords with you. I would simply wilt under the criticism a German citizen would give me on invasions and nation building.

it goes without saying Mr. Chuck that a rebuttal of this convincing magnitude was expected. i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo? being a German is reason enough to blame me. what is left for me is to hang my head in shame.

p.s. but if you are fair you will admit that i had nothing to do with the downfall of the Roman Empire!

I never accused you of being in the Battle of Guadalcanal. I merely stated..."I would simply wilt under the criticism a German citizen would give me on invasions and nation building. "

However, if you feel you must hang your head in shame for the actions of your ancestors, that is your problem. I'm just not crazy about criticism of the US emanating from any citizen of a country that was instrumental in starting WWII. I would feel the same if a Japanese citizen decided to lecture me about the fairness of ending WWII in the manner in which it ended.

In a quest for fairness, I will readily admit you, personally, had absolutely nothing to do with the fall of the Roman Empire. I will even throw in your personal non-responsibility for the Battle of Guadalcanal.

I wouldn't have let him off that easily...

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

First it was peadophiles, now you intimate he's the bastard child of a rape victim.

There is an irony in your defence of the US's reputation in that you come across as so arrogant and uncouth.

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

First it was peadophiles, now you intimate he's the bastard child of a rape victim.

There is an irony in your defence of the US's reputation in that you come across as so arrogant and uncouth.

And if you were a man of your word you would ignore my posts. But you aren't, so you won't. Lighten up.

All this bickering reminds me of what happens around family dinner tables during the holidays. I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside.

...back to the topic of Afghanistan...

I just read this very interesting article about what went wrong in Tora Bora. It's written by Peter Bergen (somewhat of an al Qaeda expert who you might know from CNN). It pretty much trashes America's handling of the situation and I won't disagree with Peter except to say hindsight is 20/20. I do remember at the time the praises from John Kerry and other non-Neo Cons for the US not putting too many boots on the ground and pissing off the Afghans who are distrustful of foreigners. From the stand point of getting bin Laden, that was a major screw-up.

It's 6 pages long but a good read if you're interested.

http://www.tnr.com/article/the-battle-tora-bora?page=0,0

"The real history of Tora Bora is far more disturbing. Having reconstructed the battle--based on interviews with the top American ground commander, three Afghan commanders, and three CIA officials; accounts by Al Qaeda eyewitnesses that were subsequently published on jihadist websites; recollections of captured survivors who were later questioned by interrogators or reporters; an official history of the Afghan war by the U.S. Special Operations Command; an investigation by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; and visits to the battle sites themselves--I am convinced that Tora Bora constitutes one of the greatest military blunders in recent U.S. history. It is worth revisiting now not just in the interest of historical accuracy, but also because the story contains valuable lessons as we renew our push against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

All this bickering reminds me of what happens around family dinner tables during the holidays. I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside.

So you're the one who married my first wife...

son nam nar.

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

my father had 5 days leave from the russian front, 2 days for travelling back and forth and 3 days marriage leave (1st till 3rd february 1943). i was born nine months later on 2nd november = bull's eye. and no, my late mother was not polish but swiss-french/austrian.

p.s. as quite often in other postings your diction shows your character, respectively the lack of any.

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

First it was peadophiles, now you intimate he's the bastard child of a rape victim.

There is an irony in your defence of the US's reputation in that you come across as so arrogant and uncouth.

And if you were a man of your word you would ignore my posts. But you aren't, so you won't. Lighten up.

All this bickering reminds me of what happens around family dinner tables during the holidays. I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside.

Firstly, I must reply simply to ensure that you don't think I take your rebuke seriously.

That done, I will say secondly, that you, once again, avoid responding appropriately whenever you are on the back foot, instead use attack as your defence. (In this case, as others, a pathetic attack, at that.)

That may be a common practice of the US military, but does not neccessarily make for a logical or rational tactic when debating, since debates are decided by logic, truth, and reason. You have shown little of any of these.

I'll ignore you whenever I want, and respond whenever I want.

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

my father had 5 days leave from the russian front, 2 days for travelling back and forth and 3 days marriage leave (1st till 3rd february 1943). i was born nine months later on 2nd november = bull's eye. and no, my late mother was not polish but swiss-french/austrian.

p.s. as quite often in other postings your diction shows your character, respectively the lack of any.

Sigh. I am criticized here for my over-the-top joke/insults but you just keep coming with straight forward insults. Where I come from, my type are jointly laughed at, your type get you in big trouble. Not with me though, I have a sense of humor even if I'm the target - probably because I'm so arrogant.

Btw, when I made my post about the Polish mother, I wasn't trying to get a rise out of you. I knew it would get Harcourt going and it did. He's rather predictable.

btw - happy belated birthday. Mine was two day later (in the mid 1960's though).

Firstly, I must reply simply to ensure that you don't think I take your rebuke seriously.

That done, I will say secondly, that you, once again, avoid responding appropriately whenever you are on the back foot, instead use attack as your defence. (In this case, as others, a pathetic attack, at that.)

That may be a common practice of the US military, but does not neccessarily make for a logical or rational tactic when debating, since debates are decided by logic, truth, and reason. You have shown little of any of these.

I'll ignore you whenever I want, and respond whenever I want.

[pointed reply deleted and replaced with a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!]

i admit that i am quite obviously guilty that your brother died during the battle of Guadalcanal which ended seven days after i was conceived. so what if i was a that time only a one week old embryo?

I think it's great that your father was home at that time making love instead of abroad making war. Kinda like one of the early "Make Love, Not War" hippies. Wait, your mother wouldn't happen to be Polish, would she?

my father had 5 days leave from the russian front, 2 days for travelling back and forth and 3 days marriage leave (1st till 3rd february 1943). i was born nine months later on 2nd november = bull's eye. and no, my late mother was not polish but swiss-french/austrian.

p.s. as quite often in other postings your diction shows your character, respectively the lack of any.

Sigh. I am criticized here for my over-the-top joke/insults but you just keep coming with straight forward insults. Where I come from, my type are jointly laughed at, your type get you in big trouble. Not with me though, I have a sense of humor even if I'm the target - probably because I'm so arrogant.

Btw, when I made my post about the Polish mother, I wasn't trying to get a rise out of you. I knew it would get Harcourt going and it did. He's rather predictable.

btw - happy belated birthday. Mine was two day later (in the mid 1960's though).

I don't believe you contrived that to get a rise out of me. I believe you made the comment to get a rise out of Naam. You're just using the situation to spin things again.

I DO believe this latest comment is contrived to try to stop me "rising" to your inanities.

As I said before...I will respond whenever I want, and ignore whenever I want.

I suspect you will now say that THIS reply was also predictable. You are full of it, and not smart enough to realise that few, if any, in this forum are taken in by your pathetic spin and cleverer than thou BS.

If you want to take me on in a debate....then follow normal debate rules and have the debate adjudicated by someone who knows the normal debating rules (this is neccessary because you often follow an illogical argument or do not address the point)....otherwise...continue to post in your normal way, and continue to be critisised or ignored.

I don't believe you contrived that to get a rise out of me. I believe you made the comment to get a rise out of Naam. You're just using the situation to spin things again.

I DO believe this latest comment is contrived to try to stop me "rising" to your inanities.

As I said before...I will respond whenever I want, and ignore whenever I want.

I suspect you will now say that THIS reply was also predictable. You are full of it, and not smart enough to realise that few, if any, in this forum are taken in by your pathetic spin and cleverer than thou BS.

If you want to take me on in a debate....then follow normal debate rules and have the debate adjudicated by someone who knows the normal debating rules (this is neccessary because you often follow an illogical argument or do not address the point)....otherwise...continue to post in your normal way, and continue to be critisised or ignored.

Did your mommy help you write that?

I'm happy to debate you or anyone else on this forum face to face over drinks at a bar down here on Samui. C'mon down! You can even bring a friend and try to gang up on me if you're worried. I'm a center-right American who has been living abroad for the past 15 years in several diff countries and continents. I've had more than enough practice over the years with people like you to handle anything you can bring to the table. If you don't believe me, prove me wrong. Don't worry, I'm very laid back and not at all violent. The only thing you really have to be scared about is explaining to all your left-nut buddies here how I'm not really such a bad guy and that we became friends.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! HAPPY HANUKKAH! Even have a nice Kwanza if that's what floats your boat.

Blimey. It's pencil cases at dawn

We'll see who has the fastest mouse in the East!

Can we just go back to the reason why the US is in Afghanistan?

Can we just go back to the reason why the US is in Afghanistan?

The reason is not really that important. Some will say the US is still there to keep it from becoming the terrorist sanctuary it was prior to 9/11. Others will say it's a war for oil. There isn't any oil, but that won't stop them from claiming it all the same. A better question is why is NATO there? It can't be due to pressure from the US. These same countries refused to join in the fight in Iraq so why do they agree to go to Afghanistan? Sure, many of them don't actually fight, but they are there all the same which is more than they did in Iraq.

Can we just go back to the reason why the US is in Afghanistan?

The reason is not really that important. Some will say the US is still there to keep it from becoming the terrorist sanctuary it was prior to 9/11. Others will say it's a war for oil. There isn't any oil, but that won't stop them from claiming it all the same. A better question is why is NATO there? It can't be due to pressure from the US. These same countries refused to join in the fight in Iraq so why do they agree to go to Afghanistan? Sure, many of them don't actually fight, but they are there all the same which is more than they did in Iraq.

Well not that I started this thread to question the stupidity of reasons for being in Afghanistan let alone Iraq or even the 150 other places the US has bases outside of the US........

But as for reasons they are probably the same as always.....

There is money to be made supplying tools of the trade....... war.

Oil in Afghanistan? Well no. not physically but it has long been the desired route for a pipeline.

One that gives an alternative to the current pipelines that runs through Russia.

The US has always been flatly refused that they would ever be allowed to do so in Afghanistan.

Not surprisingly the pipeline would also need to go through Pakistan to reach the sea ultimately.

As such I would not be surprised at the need to chase terrorist through that region also.

The sooner the world wises up & stops buying the US debt the sooner all this foolishness can stop.

The only reason the US can afford any of these wars....errrrr policing actions/occupations is the unlimited check book provided by writing checks on an non-existent bank account. Printing more & more fiat out of thin air.

Although recently the other countries like Japan & China who buy the bulk of the FED Reserve debt has slowed.

The shell game / ponzi scheme is now in full force. They actually expect folks to believe that households bought over 500 billion in debt this year. SO how does that work? A private group called the FED Reserve prints paper & gives it to congress to finance war & other expenditures.....FED then supposedly sells treasuries to others to give the thin air paper power backing. Yet when the buyers dont show or there are not enough of them for the massive printing....Instead they send in their straw men to buy their own paper & with guess what? Yes more of that funny money they printed themselves.

Is It All Just a Ponzi Scheme?

Can we just go back to the reason why the US is in Afghanistan?

The reason is not really that important. Some will say the US is still there to keep it from becoming the terrorist sanctuary it was prior to 9/11. Others will say it's a war for oil. There isn't any oil, but that won't stop them from claiming it all the same. A better question is why is NATO there? It can't be due to pressure from the US. These same countries refused to join in the fight in Iraq so why do they agree to go to Afghanistan? Sure, many of them don't actually fight, but they are there all the same which is more than they did in Iraq.

I agree. The pipeline route is the reason.

Well not that I started this thread to question the stupidity of reasons for being in Afghanistan let alone Iraq or even the 150 other places the US has bases outside of the US........

But as for reasons they are probably the same as always.....

There is money to be made supplying tools of the trade....... war.

Oil in Afghanistan? Well no. not physically but it has long been the desired route for a pipeline.

One that gives an alternative to the current pipelines that runs through Russia.

The US has always been flatly refused that they would ever be allowed to do so in Afghanistan.

Not surprisingly the pipeline would also need to go through Pakistan to reach the sea ultimately.

As such I would not be surprised at the need to chase terrorist through that region also.

The sooner the world wises up & stops buying the US debt the sooner all this foolishness can stop.

The only reason the US can afford any of these wars....errrrr policing actions/occupations is the unlimited check book provided by writing checks on an non-existent bank account. Printing more & more fiat out of thin air.

Although recently the other countries like Japan & China who buy the bulk of the FED Reserve debt has slowed.

The shell game / ponzi scheme is now in full force. They actually expect folks to believe that households bought over 500 billion in debt this year. SO how does that work? A private group called the FED Reserve prints paper & gives it to congress to finance war & other expenditures.....FED then supposedly sells treasuries to others to give the thin air paper power backing. Yet when the buyers dont show or there are not enough of them for the massive printing....Instead they send in their straw men to buy their own paper & with guess what? Yes more of that funny money they printed themselves.

Is It All Just a Ponzi Scheme?

Odd.

I wrote, "I agree. The pipeline route is the reason." in that post, but my words didn't appear. Upon editing, my words were there.

Never mind.

I agree. The pipeline route is the reason.