yes, no 2 marriages are the same

but the point is Ian, you stated that 'those that invest more in the relationship, usually men, lose more at the end of it'

I disagree, and statistics would point otherwise. in places such as Asia and Africa - the norm is that wives earn less and hence are taking care of the homes. in many parts of Asia, with the changing trends of 2 income households, where women also work outside the home, even then it is mostly left up to the women to do the house chores while the men sit around and do pretty much nothing. and as we know Asia makes up a large portion of the world's population, so I dont think it would be wrong to say that statistically women are contributing as much if not more than men to the relationship.

to assume that just because you did in your 2 relationships would be too simplistic.

and Im not even going to go into the various forms of abuse that women suffer at the hands of their male partners

or the difficulty women who have taken time off work to have babies face when trying to get back into the workforce, especially if they continued to stay at home to take care of babies for a few years.

I have always enjoyed debating subjects, and the more controversial the better. And, I'm quite willing to play the "fall guy" or stand on the other side of the ledger from what I might truly believe. We had a debating team at university and it was a lot of fun. The idea for a debate was usually decided where teams had to stand for something they didn't beleve themselves. It made for a lot of research just to get their point across to the jury.

I've looked inside "outside the box" a few times, but none of the topics at that time interested me.

But surely by tour own definition, your abilities as a master debator, can enliven any thread, whether you believe in the subject, or not, so a thread that is to all intents and purposes boring by your criteria, can be brought to life with your skills as master debator.

Outside The Box has gone a bit funny. (As in peculiar).

It's difficult to discuss world events with out mentioning a country between Canada and Mexico that is inhabited by a race of charming, charitable and knowledgeable people who also happen to be extremely thin skinned.

I suppose if the British Empire ever had anything going for it, it would be that it's citizens never burst into tears when anyone suggested that they never had the rest of the worlds interests at heart 100%.

he he

sceadugenga has just opened a can of worms.

Outside The Box has gone a bit funny. (As in peculiar).

It's difficult to discuss world events with out mentioning a country between Canada and Mexico that is inhabited by a race of charming, charitable and knowledgeable people who also happen to be extremely thin skinned.

I suppose if the British Empire ever had anything going for it, it would be that it's citizens never burst into tears when anyone suggested that they never had the rest of the worlds interests at heart 100%.

Perhaps OTB ought to have a new sub-forum called 'Inside the Schoolyard'?

Outside The Box has gone a bit funny. (As in peculiar).

It's difficult to discuss world events with out mentioning a country between Canada and Mexico that is inhabited by a race of charming, charitable and knowledgeable people who also happen to be extremely thin skinned.

I suppose if the British Empire ever had anything going for it, it would be that it's citizens never burst into tears when anyone suggested that they never had the rest of the worlds interests at heart 100%.

Why don't we try 7 days a week, 24 hours a day of how the Australians have mistreated the Aborigines - each and every detail repeated over and over again - and see how amused our Aussie cousins are then.

Outside The Box has gone a bit funny. (As in peculiar).

It's difficult to discuss world events with out mentioning a country between Canada and Mexico that is inhabited by a race of charming, charitable and knowledgeable people who also happen to be extremely thin skinned.

I suppose if the British Empire ever had anything going for it, it would be that it's citizens never burst into tears when anyone suggested that they never had the rest of the worlds interests at heart 100%.

Why don't we try 7 days a week, 24 hours a day of how the Australians have mistreated the Aborigines - each and every detail repeated over and over again - and see how amused our Aussie cousins are then.

The difference being that we Aussies, me at least, and I imagine most others if not all, would not deny any of the facts, or try to justify them with ridiculous statements.

Nor would I feel it was an attack on my person or my country and thus start denigrating whoever dared speak out.

What it sounds like you're intimating here is that you are sick and tired of hearing/reading about the US being held responsible for what it has done. Well, if you'd stop defending the indefensible, people wouldn't have to keep harping on it 24/7.

My father was the typical "macho male" who was a former sports star, and everyone loved him, but without mother looking after him I'm not sure how he would have survived. As it was their marriage lasted over 70 years and they fought every day of it. Dad died at 87 after mother moved him into an old age home... where he hated it. She died 3 year later at 82.

How old were your parents at marriage - 17 and 9 ???

It was one of those weird Canadian religious sects hidden high in the Rockies.

Outside The Box has gone a bit funny. (As in peculiar).

It's difficult to discuss world events with out mentioning a country between Canada and Mexico that is inhabited by a race of charming, charitable and knowledgeable people who also happen to be extremely thin skinned.

I suppose if the British Empire ever had anything going for it, it would be that it's citizens never burst into tears when anyone suggested that they never had the rest of the worlds interests at heart 100%.

Why don't we try 7 days a week, 24 hours a day of how the Australians have mistreated the Aborigines - each and every detail repeated over and over again - and see how amused our Aussie cousins are then.

The difference being that we Aussies, me at least, and I imagine most others if not all, would not deny any of the facts, or try to justify them with ridiculous statements.

Nor would I feel it was an attack on my person or my country and thus start denigrating whoever dared speak out.

What it sounds like you're intimating here is that you are sick and tired of hearing/reading about the US being held responsible for what it has done. Well, if you'd stop defending the indefensible, people wouldn't have to keep harping on it 24/7.

UlyssesG and I go back a long way in the great wide world of forums and he knows I'm not anti American. This means he usually considers what I say for at least three seconds before he lets me have it with his trusty flame thrower.

The Australian attitude towards it's indigenous people certainly invites criticism, regardless of the lack of effort by said indigenous peoples to extract themselves from their problems.

However threads discussing them aren't likely to attract a great deal of interest, particularly if forced upon us 24/7.

The US of A though is an ongoing source of wonder and mystery to us all, therefore gets it's richly deserved share of forum space.

My father was the typical "macho male" who was a former sports star, and everyone loved him, but without mother looking after him I'm not sure how he would have survived. As it was their marriage lasted over 70 years and they fought every day of it. Dad died at 87 after mother moved him into an old age home... where he hated it. She died 3 year later at 82.

How old were your parents at marriage - 17 and 9 ???

In some cultures this was a wide spread practice.

Where they cousins?

My father was the typical "macho male" who was a former sports star, and everyone loved him, but without mother looking after him I'm not sure how he would have survived. As it was their marriage lasted over 70 years and they fought every day of it. Dad died at 87 after mother moved him into an old age home... where he hated it. She died 3 year later at 82.

How old were your parents at marriage - 17 and 9 ???

In some cultures this was a wide spread practice.

Where they cousins?

You're terrible Muriel.

The US of A though is an ongoing source of wonder and mystery to us all, therefore gets it's richly deserved share of forum space.

Supposedly, anything that is not about Thailand is against the rules - which is fine with me.

If not, I have noticed that the posters who in general support America, tend to let all the PC types have their say - over and over again - and do not express their true feelings on the matter.

All I am trying to do is point out that there are two sides to the story and inspire others who agree wth me to share their views.

I do not see how having a "debate" with more than one point of view in any way hurts Outside the Box.

The difference being that we Aussies, me at least, and I imagine most others if not all, would not deny any of the facts, or try to justify them with ridiculous statements.

Nor would I feel it was an attack on my person or my country and thus start denigrating whoever dared speak out.

Oz has not been the same since they abandoned the 'White Australia" policy.

And South Africa !!

Even Peter Hain emigrated to UK and causes all sorts of trouble there, 'cos SA is not what he thought it would be.

(When he was causing trouble in the UK in the sixties)

(Stopped my playing in a tour of SA, by his antics)

Why doesn't he go back and live in the country he espoused?

(Rant over)

Humphrey! (BTW, I well remember Humphrey on TV as a lad).....what tour was that? I'm intrigued.

Can't remember the exact date, it was a mixture of (mainly London) club players.

I was #8 for Wasps that season (and others) and there were about 30 of us approached to tour, then te RFU slapped a ban on all rugby contacts with RSA.

Cool. Glad to see a fellow rugby player out of the UK.....and a back to boot! These days they all seem to be worshipping the round ball. I played lock because of my hight, but eventually the coach saw that my speed was a better attribute and since then I always played on the wing.

Cool. Glad to see a fellow rugby player out of the UK.....and a back to boot! These days they all seem to be worshipping the round ball. I played lock because of my hight, but eventually the coach saw that my speed was a better attribute and since then I always played on the wing.

#8 ain't a back - king of the donkeys.

Basic task was to flatten the other side's scrum half, intercept passes to fly half, flatten fly half, flatten ref., grab anyone not wearing a yellow/black jersey and flatten them too.

Sometimes got to see the ball, sometimes got to score a try, even kicked the thing occasionally, but only 'cos I missed the guy carrying it.

Played for 50 years, from 8 to 58, wound up my career playing an invitation sevens tournament in Bristol. Various players like Ben Cohen and Kieran Bracken playing (in other teams). Got me souvenir jersey from that - wife gave it away to her brother. Just before I gave her away.

Basic task was to flatten the other side's scrum half, intercept passes to fly half, flatten fly half, flatten ref., grab anyone not wearing a yellow/black jersey and flatten them too.

Sometimes got to see the ball, sometimes got to score a try, even kicked the thing occasionally, but only 'cos I missed the guy carrying it.

Played for 50 years, from 8 to 58, wound up my career playing an invitation sevens tournament in Bristol. Various players like Ben Cohen and Kieran Bracken playing (in other teams). Got me souvenir jersey from that - wife gave it away to her brother. Just before I gave her away.

Doh, for some reason I read 5/8. I started in the Avalon Under 5"s (Sydney). Last game was for Otahuhu (Auckland) in.....hmmmmm......'85. Your career far outstretches mine.

Bugger about the jersey!!!! That in itself was grounds for giving her away!

yes, no 2 marriages are the same

but the point is Ian, you stated that 'those that invest more in the relationship, usually men, lose more at the end of it'

I disagree, and statistics would point otherwise. in places such as Asia and Africa - the norm is that wives earn less and hence are taking care of the homes. in many parts of Asia, with the changing trends of 2 income households, where women also work outside the home, even then it is mostly left up to the women to do the house chores while the men sit around and do pretty much nothing. and as we know Asia makes up a large portion of the world's population, so I dont think it would be wrong to say that statistically women are contributing as much if not more than men to the relationship.

to assume that just because you did in your 2 relationships would be too simplistic.

and Im not even going to go into the various forms of abuse that women suffer at the hands of their male partners

or the difficulty women who have taken time off work to have babies face when trying to get back into the workforce, especially if they continued to stay at home to take care of babies for a few years.

When you start talking about wives in Asian countries I have to totally agree with you. From what I see in Thailand and the Philippines it is the women who do most of the work. And, in North America where both spouses are working I also agree with you. Like I said, every relationship is different. I won't even go into spousal abuse because there is no excuse for that. If things get that bad then the couple should not be together.

I also agree with you in the situation where the woman takes time off her career when having children. But, most often that is the case with young couples who get married with the intention of spending a long and fruitful life together. Things can go dreadfully wrong if they are not well suited.

Like I said, every situation is different and there a cases to argue on both sides of the ledger.

My father was the typical "macho male" who was a former sports star, and everyone loved him, but without mother looking after him I'm not sure how he would have survived. As it was their marriage lasted over 70 years and they fought every day of it. Dad died at 87 after mother moved him into an old age home... where he hated it. She died 3 year later at 82.

How old were your parents at marriage - 17 and 9 ???

Good one, Croc. It was a typo. They knew each other when they were youngsters and were later married which lasted 60 years.

Doh, for some reason I read 5/8.

A good old Aussie/NZ term for Stand Off

On equality, this comes to mind:

'Never above you. Never below you. Always beside you'

- - Walter Winchell (1897-1972)

My father was the typical "macho male" who was a former sports star, and everyone loved him, but without mother looking after him I'm not sure how he would have survived. As it was their marriage lasted over 70 years and they fought every day of it. Dad died at 87 after mother moved him into an old age home... where he hated it. She died 3 year later at 82.

How old were your parents at marriage - 17 and 9 ???

Good one, Croc. It was a typo. They knew each other when they were youngsters and were later married which lasted 60 years.

So, they were married over 70 years and then 60 years. Lotta years.

Mine were married for 56 years (when my dad died) and also argued alot, its a generation thing. Back then they got married and stayed married.

My great Aunt emigrated to Australia from Northern Ireland in the 1950's with a married catholic man. His wife, back in Northern Ireland, wouldn't give him a divorce until the 1970's.

Dunno where I'm going with this.....

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.

Whitton

I can't seem to find Whitton on the net. Not in a men are better at it than women context anyway.

Is it some sort of obscure game that involves balancing something on an erect penis?

I can't seem to find Whitton on the net. Not in a men are better at it than women context anyway.

Is it some sort of obscure game that involves balancing something on an erect penis?

I believe it's Charlotte Whitton.

It is

Ian, trust me, you are a novice!