Condo Owner Did Not Return Two Months Security Deposit

[yabaaaa]

Many others from TV have not received their money back from condo owners, put it down to experience as they all say.

After living over here for 3 years, I have found that Bth direction is only one way. When you pay for anything to Thai, money never comes back even if they agree in the beginning to return it. NO EXCEPTION

Absolute rubbish being spoken as usual on this subject!

[morphem]

This problem is not specific to Thailand, if you check on UK you'll find that being fleeced for the deposit is more or less standard operating procedure.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to avoid paying the last two months of rent, and tell the landlord to take it out of the deposit. I dont know whether it is adviced to practice that procedure in LOS, but a lot of people do in UK.

Sorry to burst anyones bubble regarding the honesty of British people...

Standard practice in France as well,

As long as the flat or condo is in the same original state, nothing broken etc.., its fair game imho

[nam-thip]

All money received from property rentals is subject to government tax but not many pay the said tax.

Have a lawyer write them a letter insisting they return your deposit immediately and at the same time warn them that their name might be forwarded to the tax department for none payment of tax on money received.

A silly move on your part moving into another unit within the same building.

[PhiPhi]

Shepsel,

What does the original lease say about the return of your deposit? Usually a 45 day period from termination is not unreasonable as it allows for any unpaid utility or service bills belonging to the outgoing tenant to accounted for. In this situation I think you are jumping the gun thinking about legal recourse and would recommend trying the following:

1. Demand the details of the owner from the condo management company, the owner might not even be aware of your situation.

2. Ask for a written confirmation from management co that there was no damage found to the property upon termination of the agreement and that no outstanding bills are left unpaid.

3. If the management company will not provide the above information contact members of the condo committee and lobby them for the release of this information, citing that condo management is obstructing your reasonable requests to try and recover your deposit and as they are clearly still acting as agents for the owner should either deal with your requests or allow you access to the owner.

4. Try all of the above verbally and if this does not work make the requests again in writing via EMS (registered mail).

5. Keep a record of all conversations and communications, including dates, times and names of people contacted.

Depending on the reason for the deposit not being returned you may find the above actions will produce results without having to get lawyers involved and if it does come down to lawyers you will have a good record of your exhaustive efforts to obtain the return of your deposit. I have quite often had to fight to get my deposits returned and it usually comes down to dogged persistence, polite insistence and keeping a cool head. The downside is that it is time consuming and it can be a frustrating process but when the parties get the idea that your not going away or giving up you should start to see some results.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

PhiPhi

P.S. Could you PM me with the Condo and Rm.No. as I would like to ensure we don't list it on our property site until this matter has been resolved?

[MJo]

Most of the issues at my properties are from tenants simply living like tenants, not of the 'clever' James Bond superglue foam variety.

Most 'annoying' issue in the world of landlords IMO... clogged waste water pipes. Way too much food, hair, and all kinds of random items sent down drain and toilet pipes. But don't imagine your landlord fixing it him/herself. Just means the house/building/apartment might be out of commission for 2-3 days until pipes are flushed or replaced.

I'd much rather order superglued locks replaced than to have my work team try to track down a wad of newspaper/hair spray bottle/dead kitten blockage somewhere in the plumbing system.

note to tenants: this is how to semi-annoy folks (most effective with any landlord who has few properties and no maintenance team) with what little measure of power you have in this world

note to landlords: this is how to hold onto those deposits because just about all tenants do this, it's just a question of how much blockage there will be.

My personal favorite is the good old two-kilos-of-raw-shrimp-in-the-suspended-ceiling trick. Fish heads and guts will do as well

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Tell the local BIB that you have been cheated out of XXXX baht and if they recover it for you, you will give them half of what they recover. Half is better than nothing.

[shepsel]

Shepsel,

What does the original lease say about the return of your deposit? Usually a 45 day period from termination is not unreasonable as it allows for any unpaid utility or service bills belonging to the outgoing tenant to accounted for. In this situation I think you are jumping the gun thinking about legal recourse and would recommend trying the following:

1. Demand the details of the owner from the condo management company, the owner might not even be aware of your situation.

2. Ask for a written confirmation from management co that there was no damage found to the property upon termination of the agreement and that no outstanding bills are left unpaid.

3. If the management company will not provide the above information contact members of the condo committee and lobby them for the release of this information, citing that condo management is obstructing your reasonable requests to try and recover your deposit and as they are clearly still acting as agents for the owner should either deal with your requests or allow you access to the owner.

4. Try all of the above verbally and if this does not work make the requests again in writing via EMS (registered mail).

5. Keep a record of all conversations and communications, including dates, times and names of people contacted.

Depending on the reason for the deposit not being returned you may find the above actions will produce results without having to get lawyers involved and if it does come down to lawyers you will have a good record of your exhaustive efforts to obtain the return of your deposit. I have quite often had to fight to get my deposits returned and it usually comes down to dogged persistence, polite insistence and keeping a cool head. The downside is that it is time consuming and it can be a frustrating process but when the parties get the idea that your not going away or giving up you should start to see some results.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

PhiPhi

P.S. Could you PM me with the Condo and Rm.No. as I would like to ensure we don't list it on our property site until this matter has been resolved?

My lease stipulated that I had to pay the final utility bill to the condo management, which I naturally did. The day after I moved out the owners and the property manager came to the inspection with me, and the Farang part of the ownership said I left the apartment in excellent shape. The Thai wife/girlfriend noted that there was a cracked ice cube tray and was quite rude a wouldn't make eye contact with me. They stayed over an hour and checked and rechecked and found no other damage. My lease said that if there was damages I would be responsible, except for wear and tear--whatever that means. There was no date or time period as to when the deposit was to be returned. A number of weeks later I asked the condo manager about my deposit and he told me that he asked the owner about it, and they didn't answer him as to when they would return it. He did also mention to me that I left the condo in superb condition, and I should get the deposit returned but it is out of his hands.

I am going to wait another week or so, and then call a lawyer and have them contact the condo management to try and get this resolved. I was hoping there would be an office or ministry where to report this to, as I feel I have been treated unfairly and unjustly. I think if there was some office to resolve rental deposit disputes it would be beneficial to both tenants and owners.

[PhiPhi]

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of any ombudsman or other type of organisation that could be of assistance but I would strongly recommend finding a way to contact the owner directly before getting lawyers involved. IMHO the more of a polite nuisance you are the better your chances of getting your deposit returned are and as the Thai saying goes 'better to eat excrement than go to court"!

Anyway good you luck, let us know how it turns out and what (hopefully) worked for you.

[ralfbkk]

I never had problems getting my Deposit back. Lived in Suk Soi 39 2001 - 2004 and got my Deposit back after 60 days, since the Landlord kept telling me that he has to wait for all the bills to come in and doesnt want to have any surprises. Fair enough. Went there 2 months later and picked up the cash. Very nice people. Rented a House from a private person at Moo Ban Pruek Suchart in 2000 and told her I would either deduct the rent from the Deposit or want the Deposit back the day I moved out. She came with cash. Both Landlords were older people and pretty descent, so it is not correct to say they are all the same. I would wait 50 days and then contact the owner telling him politely that you believe all is being cleared and that it is time for return of your deposit.

[sarahsbloke]

I move my stuff out, but don't hand the keys or condo over until the deposit is in my hand.

Usually no problem, they come to the condo with the cash, inspect and hand over then and there.

I also only give 1 month as deposit.

[yabaaaa]

I never had problems getting my Deposit back. Lived in Suk Soi 39 2001 - 2004 and got my Deposit back after 60 days, since the Landlord kept telling me that he has to wait for all the bills to come in and doesnt want to have any surprises. Fair enough. Went there 2 months later and picked up the cash. Very nice people. Rented a House from a private person at Moo Ban Pruek Suchart in 2000 and told her I would either deduct the rent from the Deposit or want the Deposit back the day I moved out. She came with cash. Both Landlords were older people and pretty descent, so it is not correct to say they are all the same. I would wait 50 days and then contact the owner telling him politely that you believe all is being cleared and that it is time for return of your deposit.

Quite normal though w e say 30 days for return and would never do 1 months deposit it isnt enough to cover any damage especially in units renting at 10-15000 a month.

Bills can arrive very haphazardly here and sometimes even after 30 days they havent come.

[CaptHaddock]

We don't live in Thailand yet.  However, one point I would make is that there is never such a thing as a "standard" contract.  Only the gullible believe there is.  All contracts are negotiated between the parties.  I have never signed any contract without making changes to protect my interests.  When we do move to BKK we plan to negotiate the two months of security to one month security and one month advance rent.  I am sure that some landlords will balk at that, but there will be some who will go for it.

Edited April 4, 2010 by CaptHaddock

[DragonQuest]

Dude you lost the money, save yourself the stress and mark it down as lesson learned.

We still dont know how much you lost .

[sleepyjohn]

Amazingly (or not given the ownership history of land here) there is no landlord/tenant law in Thailand.

You are however protected under Contract Law.

Your chances in a court case (in which there is no reason to believe you will not be properly treated) are as good as the contract you signed and the receipts you kept.

The lesson being ensure the contract is good and specifies about repayment.

Edited April 6, 2010 by sleepyjohn

[Scott123]

There is extended discussion on this topic in this thread.

I lived in Bangkok for 2 years. First year, an agent found the room for me at Silom Suite condo on Sathorn road. The owner was a British who only visit Thailand once a year, but had this condo as income property investment. He used a Thai lady to manage the condo, ie., collecting rent and signing contract. My 2 months deposit were 60000 baht. One month after I moved out, I met with the Thai lady, she gave me a list of the demaged items/reasons. She charged me 15000 baht for these items and give me back 45000 baht. I seriously doubt that this lady would give the 15000 baht to the British owner. But I had no choice but to agree whatever she wanted. As for the damaged items, they were all totally made up by this thai lady. I mean it was a old room, and quite easy to find any excuses or minor problems there and blame on the tenant. The original agent did not even bother to response to my phone call.

The second year, I also rent through an agent, but I met and paid the rent directly to the Thai owner, a young Thai couple. They were fair and honest. When I moved out, we cleared all the utilities bills, fees and deposit issues on the same day I moved out (I did not have to wait one month).

Those were my experence of renting in Bangkok. Good luck.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Scott123

[torrenova]

The reason it is 2 months is that the standard finder's fee is 1 month's rent. Thus, the landlord only ever gets 1 month's rent and actually has to find 2 month's rent to pay you out. What most do it give you the advance rent and half of the two month's deposit they get from the next guy.

On my last rented house, it was obvious the landlord nor his oppo had any money so despite their wanting rent, I refused to pay any and just used the deposit as rent. I told them that and also the agent / finder woman and she understood as she thought they had no money either.

[ChiangMaiFun]

A common experience for those who spend time and effort to look for a condo unit by themselves thinking they can save on agency fees...

Good and reputable agents will not act for unscrupulous owners. If the owner is of such a character, the agent will be the first to suffer from non-payment of full agency fee.

This is the best advice - go through a reputable agent - I always get my tenants that way - if I behaved like your landlord word would get around and I'd have no customers - and BTW I would never think of keeping a deposit - if a tenant suggested using the last 2 months as rent I would agree to one month after checking everything and keeping one month as security against theft (of TV for example).

[wasaskater]

For our condos in Pattaya we require one months deposit for 6 months or less. Two months for 7 months or more. You can pay in any currency...seeing as you probably don't want to take Thai baht back home. We read the water and utilities when you check in, and then again at check out. You pay the water and electric in Thai Baht...and right after we give you the deposit back...unless of course the tv is missing etc. The way we figure it...if we are fair...you will come back and refer friends.

[JetsetBkk]

I just got back my 35,000 baht - 10,000 telephone deposit, 25,000 rent. Rent deposit was originally 50,000 but I didn't pay the last month so he owed me 1/2 of the 50,000.

Some landlords you can trust, some you can't.

Some tenants you can trust (to not run up a 10,000 baht international telephone bill during the last month and then bugger off), some you can't.

[OxfordWill]

It takes less than a minute for your building owners to change the lock on your door, even without a working key.

[Heng]

Yeah, 300 Baht labor. The lock costs more. But that's okay because the last tenant paid for it.

[farangpattaya]

My last rented place (from a UK owner), I paid one month deposit.

I warned the owner 2 months before I was about to leave.

On the final day, the owner came, inspected the property; everything was okay.

I left all the utility bills (water, telephone and electricity) and I paid the landlord/owner the average amounts of these bills that would come up.

The owner refunded my 100% there and then.

I rented a condo once, deposit THB 5000 (standard amount). Rent was monthly, but I stayed for almost one year.

On the check out day, water and electric were deducted (I added a final cleaning) from the deposit and the rest was given back.

I have never encountered any problems with deposits or the returning of them.

My only rule is: If the place is not furnished (or minimal) I only pay one month deposit.

2 months is the absolute max.

BTW.....slightly off topic: Last week I was searching for a house and found one at Chok Chai 3 (Soi Kao Noi).

My Thai partner phoned the landlord and the going rental rate was THB 8,000 per month.

That sounded fair (was a small house) and we invited the landlord to come and show us the place.

Upon arrival, the landlord got me in sight and asked my partner: "Farang will stay here?" Answer was: "Yes!"

"Oh, but than the rent will be THB 9,000! Farang have enough money, no problem!"

We checked out the house........there was absolutely NOTHING in there only a HUGE fishtank in the tiny living room.

The landlord did have the nerves to ask if the tank could stay there. I told her: "Sure, no problem, that will cost you THB 4,000 per month!" and left, leaving the landlord speachless.

Edited May 27, 2010 by farangpattaya