Has The Time Come For Abhisit To Crack Down On The Lawless Red Protesters?

[commons]

As so did the yellows... but we didnt see any arrests when they were protesting and hijacking the government house and airport... so how are those criminal cases coming along against their leaders? Two years later ans still "investigating"?

[snip]

I still believe that a peaceful end to this is absolutely important for the government to hold any creditability. By failing to prosecute the Yellows, it makes it very difficult for them to prosecute the Reds.

1) cases against PAD leaders are in courts. are you, _really_, suggesting interference by politicians to "speed up" or influence judiciary?

2) you say, "By failing to prosecute the Yellows, it makes it very difficult for them to prosecute the Reds." it seems, you don't understand democracy & separation of powers. there's _NO WAY_ Abhisit should be able to influence law proceedings.

3) yes, it looks like government is "weak" as they don't punish PAD - but, actually, imho, this is _first_ government that respects _independence_ of judiciary - & does not try to manipulate it.

ok, i say it: i like Abhisit. i think he's doing good - when one looks at challenges. i also think, he's setting an example for 21st century thai democracy.

[whistleblower]

Went through there area today. There's a load of middle-aged people there - something happening to them would not be a comfortable thing to have on anyone's concious.

Of course, there's the obligatory array of up-for-it looking young guys just waiting for it all to tick over.

Disagree with you there. Age is not an issue. If they are stupid enough to be in the thick of it then young or old, they roll the dice and take their chances!

[dobadoy]

ok, i say it: i like Abhisit. i think he's doing good - when one looks at challenges. i also think, he's setting an example for 21st century thai democracy.

agreed

[Insight]

Disagree with you there. Age is not an issue. If they are stupid enough to be in the thick of it then young or old, they roll the dice and take their chances!

You might feel like that, but there's the onlooking media to consider after the event. Thaksin's PR have already done a good job of demonising the govt to them (puppets for the "elite", non-elected, class war BS), so it's a given any injuries or deaths of protesters will be given a similar spin. The protest leaders are pretty much saying "don't move or the biddies will get it first".

Crappy situation and them some. I hope the protest leaders are made to pay before they have the chance to flee.

[dudemeister]

Looking at the current poll results here, the leading consensus is to wait.

End of democratic story - close the thread.

[whistleblower]

Disagree with you there. Age is not an issue. If they are stupid enough to be in the thick of it then young or old, they roll the dice and take their chances!

You might feel like that, but there's the onlooking media to consider after the event. Thaksin's PR have already done a good job of demonising the govt to them (puppets for the "elite", non-elected, class war BS), so it's a given any injuries or deaths of protesters will be given a similar spin. The protest leaders are pretty much saying "don't move or the biddies will get it first".

Crappy situation and them some. I hope the protest leaders are made to pay before they have the chance to flee.

media spin or not, if they are there then the oldies have thrown their hat in the ring! The govt doesnt have to come up with excuses for 'old biddies' getting hurt. facts are facts, they were their when it went violent (if it does) and old or not if the govt can come up with a reason why force was used, it doesnt matter who/what age group got caught in the melee.

[Lakegeneve]

The red Shirts must retreat and go back to their farms and their sweaty little shacks in Issan. Let them eat sticky rice and Som Tum I say.

I don't want prejudiced nonsense like this, which serves to increase hatred rather promote peace.

I do want the authorities to enforce the law, how violent enforcing the law becomes depends on the protesters willingness to obey the law. The protests in Siam Square are illegal, economically damaging and have no other purpose than to incite confrontation.

The red leaders got their chance to negotiate with the prime minister on national tv. They won a concession, but didn't take it, so it seems all they want is to usurp power. There's no reason not to wait until the end of the year for elections, or if there is I have yet to see a convincing argument. Any reds out there care to give one?

Some good points here. The govt should do all it can to avoid the use of force whilst the occupation remains relatively peaceful. The only win for the reds here is to have a bloody crackdown where they then portray themselves as victims. They may try to provoke but they also understand how badly the violence of last Songkran went against them. The govt lose some sense of authority but it can wear that and still be seen to have some authority in managing and containing without trying to forcibly dispersing the crowd. Meanwhile, people in BKK get more pissed and Pheu Thai will most likely suffers at the polls in BKK.

All of thailand loses if the use of force resulting in injuries and violence eventuates. Those calling for it seemingly do not understand the history of political violence in thailand nor the nature of the issues involved in this current cycle of a longer -term power struggle of various dimensions. With such a large crowd and a desperate leadership seeking confrontation that is almost inevitable. Particularly, factoring in the less than ideal standards of the police in engaging in crowd control measures (as we saw in the Oct 7 crackdown against the PAD blockading parliament).

The economic lossed resulting from any large scale use of force to clear the crowd would be greater I would suggest than loss of trade for large businesses being closed for a week. There would be a greater political polarisation (we are still in the early days of a long power struggle), a dent in consumer confidence and of course the 'scared cow' of tourism would take a short term hit for the next month or so.

Let them stay, get hot and sweaty. Use some containment measures so the affected area does not expand but otherwise Songkran is around the corner and similar to last year most will want to go home to be with their families.

No easy solutions here but waiting it out has to be preferable to the use of force and all the ugly consequences which flow from that.

[elcent]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-428075 :D

[Lakegeneve]

The Thaksin reds (as recently proven once again) are not a force you can have good faith negotiations with. They are all or nothing. That is obvious. So this totally peaceful solution is IMPOSSIBLE.

It's pretty obvious you're trying to demonize a group that is conducting peaceful protests to justify a violent response from the government.

Occupying the airport was a far more ruinous action, but the yellow shirt demonstrators were handled by the government with kid gloves. Why the double standard?

They are no longer peaceful, legal protests. Of course I am 100 percent for such protests. This group is attempting to overthrow a legal government using illegal protests and violent tactics. Their goal apparently is to bring back Thaksin to power, possibly as a dictator with a new form of government. That is called an attempt at revolution, not protests. I realize this revolution attempt has supporters. However, name me a government in the world that would just sit back and allow such a thing without resisting.

Different government in power when the airport was taken over. Your question is thus silly and childish. We are talking about what is happening now with the current government and the red shirt Thaksinistas.

I always get bemused when people try to compare two completely ideologically minded govts actions when discussing the response to the PAD compared with the UDD/DAAD. Just because the previous PPP govt did not have an adequate security plan to protect and block off the airport with a pro-PPP senior police leadership under them, somehow that is meant to be an example of double standards!? At least this govt has been more co-ordinated, prepared and organised with the security elements in dealing with demonstrations. Even with the PAD when they did that stupid demo at Preah Vihear last year.

It should be noted that the Oct 7 use of force against the PAD did result in two deaths, many serious injuries and was widely condemned as an inappropriate use of force by untrained police using lethal tear gas (chinese). Remember pics of limbs being blown off? That was not kids gloves!

misterjag, you seem to have a selective memory blinded by your own political disposition?

[Insight]

Looking at the current poll results here, the leading consensus is to wait.

End of democratic story - close the thread.

Just a msg to highlight your spot-on avatar.

[Jingthing]

Looking at the current poll results here, the leading consensus is to wait.

End of democratic story - close the thread.

That's a complete perversion of the word CONSENSUS, mate. When you add crack down before Monday plus crack down on Monday, you currently have 57 percent (vs. 31 percent for waiting for even more red violence). That's a consensus for cracking down actually YESTERDAY or before.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[7by7]

What I have posted often are questions to people who post ignorant comments and rumour as fact; regardless of which side of this divide they are on.

I am not satisfied with your answer for obvious reasons. Have you never found a pro red post to be similarly ignorant by your standards ... If so, point out the post. I asked you to, and you could not. Otherwise, any reasonable person would conclude you are indeed biased in favor of sympathy for the red shirt Thaksin supporters. Nothing wrong with that per se. I suggest you own up to it to be taken more seriously.

I suggest you pause in your ranting and answer pertinent questions put to you if you want to be taken seriously.

I'll repeat them for you:-

Tell me, as you are so against these demonstrations and want the authorities to use force to break them up; what was your attitude when the yellows were doing similar, occupying and closing the airport for example? Were you calling for the tear gas and water cannons then?

Jingthing @ 2010-04-05 21:40:40

Comparisons have been made of this mindless mob of violent peasants to the Maoist cultural revolution. Read up on that. Do you want that for Thailand?

Comparisons made by whom? Do you have a link? In what way is this similar?

So, any chance of some answers?

Apparently not.

Not surprised.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Also note the incredibly biased way -again- the poll is worded... 'LAWLESS' Red Protesters.. 'RED ANARCHY'..

Honestly, how difficult is it to show some balance and respect when doing a poll. Unless the objective of course is to incessantly bore people to death with a particular viewpoint.

[Jingthing]

Also note the incredibly biased way -again- the poll is worded... 'LAWLESS' Red Protesters.. 'RED ANARCHY'..

Honestly, how difficult is it to show some balance and respect when doing a poll. Unless the objective of course is to incessantly bore people to death with a particular viewpoint.

Fine. Do your own poll.

BTW -- the protesters now are law breakers. Read the news. Anarchy by the red shirts? You betcha.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Apparently not.

Not surprised.

Tit for tat having NOTHING to do with your questions. Further explanation given by PM to the poster 7by7.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[needforspeed]

Disagree with you there. Age is not an issue. If they are stupid enough to be in the thick of it then young or old, they roll the dice and take their chances!

You might feel like that, but there's the onlooking media to consider after the event. Thaksin's PR have already done a good job of demonising the govt to them (puppets for the "elite", non-elected, class war BS), so it's a given any injuries or deaths of protesters will be given a similar spin. The protest leaders are pretty much saying "don't move or the biddies will get it first".

Crappy situation and them some. I hope the protest leaders are made to pay before they have the chance to flee.

media spin or not, if they are there then the oldies have thrown their hat in the ring! The govt doesnt have to come up with excuses for 'old biddies' getting hurt. facts are facts, they were their when it went violent (if it does) and old or not if the govt can come up with a reason why force was used, it doesnt matter who/what age group got caught in the melee.

Cant agree on this one WB, there are some exceptions, as the taliban used children, elderly and woman as a chield.

If this happening with the reds government still resoponsable.

[7by7]

Apparently not.

Not surprised.

Tit for tat having NOTHING to do with your questions. Further explanation given by PM to the poster 7by7.

I'm willing to post your PM and my reply here for all to see; do you agree?

(I, of course, will not post a PM in the open forum without the permission of the person who sent it.)

[Jingthing]

Apparently not.

Not surprised.

Tit for tat having NOTHING to do with your questions. Further explanation given by PM to the poster 7by7.

I'm willing to post your PM and my reply here for all to see; do you agree?

(I, of course, will not post a PM in the open forum without the permission of the person who sent it.)

No! I bloody well do not agree. What I do want is for you to stop harassing me on a public forum. Ignore each other is best, good bye.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[7by7]

Questioning what you have posted and asking for evidence of accusations made by you is hardly harassment.

If you are not prepared to be questioned on accusations you make; if you are not prepared to provide evidence to back them up; perhaps you shouldn't make them!

[Jingthing]

Please note I have put member/mod 7by7 on ignore and asked him to stop posting replies to any of my posts as there will be no replies ever starting now, which of course, is up to him. Cheers.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[way2muchcoffee]

Questioning what you have posted and asking for evidence of accusations made by you is hardly harassment.

If you are not prepared to be questioned on accusations you make; if you are not prepared to provide evidence to back them up; perhaps you shouldn't make them!

To be fair you haven't answered or put forth the evidence asked of you by JT. Go figure.

[Jingthing]

Tit for tat. Do you know what tit for tat means? READ this entire thread and the reason for my conflict with that member will become clear to any intelligent person. Now, please leave it alone.

[dudemeister]

Looking at the current poll results here, the leading consensus is to wait.

End of democratic story - close the thread.

That's a complete perversion of the word CONSENSUS, mate. When you add crack down before Monday plus crack down on Monday, you currently have 57 percent (vs. 31 percent for waiting for even more red violence). That's a consensus for cracking down actually YESTERDAY or before.

Those who voted for "He should have cracked down earlier" does not necessarily mean, that they still want a crackdown now or in the future. Therefore it would be incorrect to tally these votes together.

[Jingthing]

Looking at the current poll results here, the leading consensus is to wait.

End of democratic story - close the thread.

That's a complete perversion of the word CONSENSUS, mate. When you add crack down before Monday plus crack down on Monday, you currently have 57 percent (vs. 31 percent for waiting for even more red violence). That's a consensus for cracking down actually YESTERDAY or before.

Those who voted for "He should have cracked down earlier" does not necessarily mean, that they still want a crackdown now or in the future. Therefore it would be incorrect to tally these votes together.

Nice spin. And total BS from a logic point of view. Believe what you want. Not a scientific poll and never presented as one.

[bkkjames]

Please note I have put member/mod 7by7 on ignore and asked him to stop posting replies to any of my posts as there will be no replies ever starting now, which of course, is up to him. Cheers.

And I thought I was the only special one to get such treatment JT lighten up mate.

[Jingthing]

Please note I have put member/mod 7by7 on ignore and asked him to stop posting replies to any of my posts as there will be no replies ever starting now, which of course, is up to him. Cheers.

And I thought I was the only special one to get such treatment JT lighten up mate.

You are not on my ignore list, dude. My list is actually very short and you don't rate.

[bkkjames]

Please note I have put member/mod 7by7 on ignore and asked him to stop posting replies to any of my posts as there will be no replies ever starting now, which of course, is up to him. Cheers.

And I thought I was the only special one to get such treatment JT lighten up mate.

You are not on my ignore list, dude. My list is actually very short and you don't rate.

But I was mate. Poll or no Poll, you decide.

[Jingthing]

You were. Now you aren't. Let it go. Next ...

As a favor to most members who find this personal crap BORING, I ask people to get back to the TOPIC of this thread. I can't control that, but I think it is a reasonable request.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[chadintheusa]

The answer is a definite YES! Bring the protest to an end. The Reds are violating the law, whatever happens to them is on their own heads. End the protest or you will see innocent Bangkok residents injured or killed by the protesters. These people are lunatics, they will soon move beyond storming buildings and using intimidation to circumvent democracy. They will continue to escalate if their illegal behavior is tolerated any longer. Fire hoses, batons, rubber bullets, whatever it takes act NOW before Thailand descends any further into anarchy.

[Jingthing]

It might be too late. The anarchy has already arrived.