That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

So tell me why Israel did not take action against those soldgiers and prosceute them in front of the world and tell us that that is NOT ACCEPTABLE for the IDF to act like that nobody cares that you think its wrong

We want to see the Isralei governement act within the law and take responsibility for wehen there soldgiers act like terrosits

WE EXPECT HAMAS TO ACT LIKE THAT

WE DO NOT EXPECT ISRAEL TO ACT LIKE THAT

and when they condone it by doing nothing it breeds contempt which is what israel is seeing around the world with less and less people being sympathetic to the cause.

You forgot to start your post with, "OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong. What the IDF did was NOT 'completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis'"

That's a familiar pattern, much like our Alex. Say something that isn't true, have it pointed out, ignore it and just follow up with more questions. It's like a one way street with some of you people.

Ok I was wrong Im sorry what the IDF did was not completely ignored by you a pro Isralei

Now can you answer the questions cause it dont matter what you or any othe pro isralei thinks its your governements actions that count

An interesting Article written by a Jewish Lady and titled.

Israel is an Apartheid State

Before I deal with why these unprecedented attacks are taking place, I'd like to share with you a great talk I heard last night at Ryerson from Na'eem Jeena: , a leading activist and academic from South Africa who works for Palestinian solidarity. He told us that South African apartheid had three pillars of apartheid and Israel shares all three.

1. Different rights for different races In the case of Israel, it is different rights for Jews and for non-Jews. For example the law of return of 1950 says Jews can return to Israel and be given citizenship even if they have no links to the country other than mythical biblical ones; whereas Palestinians cannot return even if their parents or grandparents lived there.

2. Separation of so-called racial groups into different geographical areas. Even within the borders of Israel, 93 percent of land is reserved as a national land trust or Jewish National Fund land is for the exclusive use of Jews. The 20 percent of the population that is Palestinians living in Israel have to share access to the 7 percent of private land that is left. The Israeli Supreme Court has made a number of decisions that Palestinians cannot live on Jewish lands. There are not only residential areas that are banned to Palestinians but there are separate roads for Jews and Palestinians. That was never true in South Africa even in times of crisis. Moreover Palestinians have less access to water than Jews living nearby

Finally the movement of Palestinians is severely restricted much more so than were blacks in South Africa. The famous pass laws in South Africa meant that Blacks had to show government issued passes to move around but Palestinians are even more restricted by walls and checkpoints and if they live in the Gaza Strip can't leave at all.

3. Security and Repression Matrix of Laws and Security. There was serious repression in the Black townships but there were never tanks or planes buzzing overhead like there is in West Bank. Israeli military violence against Palestinian communities. says Jena, is far worse than anything suffered by Blacks in South Africa during apartheid.

If Israel is becoming a pariah in the world it is not because of anti-Semitism, it is because they are practicing a form of apartheid even more egregious than that practiced in South Africa. Others have compiled comments from some of the most respected leaders of the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa who see what Israel is doing as apartheid. There is a reason why the BDS is strongest in South African. People there recognize apartheid when they see it.

Finally the UN Convention on Apartheid condemns the crime of apartheid that refers to a series of inhuman acts—including murder, torture, arbitrary arrest, illegal imprisonment, exploitation, marginalization, and persecution—committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining the domination of one racial group by another. If the shoe fits.

So why are politicians including some from the NDP setting a student activity like IAW in their sites? An all party coalition of parliamentarians has been holding hearings on what they call the "new anti-semitism," by which they mean criticism of Israel. They heard from every University President who appeared before them that there is no rise of anti-semitism on their campuses and yet the false rumours of such a rise persist because of the equation of criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. ">Israel is beginning to see that the non-violent anti-apartheid and BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) movement is a greater threat to their power than the any military threat. In Israel and Palestine, they are moving to arrest non-violent activists who are leading the movement there. And they are using all their economic and political power to push friendly governments to move against these protests. But there is a problem. It's called democracy and freedom of speech. However much you might disagree that Israel practices apartheid, you cannot shut down a discussion of the issue or a demonstration or disinvestment campaign against Israel because freedom of speech is a fundamental democratic right in most Western countries. In Canada, the only way to shut down the movement is to vilify it as hateful or anti-semitic. That is what our parliamentarians are now trying to do.

I am Jewish and have been working one and off for Palestinian rights for many years, as have many other Jews who feel a special responsibility to speak out against injustices committed by Israel. During that time, I have rarely experienced any anti-semitism. In the IAW organizing, I have experienced none. If Israel is losing legitimacy in the world, it is because of what their government is doing to the Palestinians, not because of anti-semitism. >This attempt to shut down criticism of Israel is the most frightening assault on freedom of speech I have ever seen in this country. Whether or not you think Israel Apartheid Week is the best name for this week of discussion supporting Palestinian rights, please write your MP and your MPP and tell them you think it is wrong for Parliamentarians to denounce this kind of educational

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

So tell me why Israel did not take action against those soldgiers and prosceute them in front of the world and tell us that that is NOT ACCEPTABLE for the IDF to act like that nobody cares that you think its wrong

We want to see the Isralei governement act within the law and take responsibility for wehen there soldgiers act like terrosits

WE EXPECT HAMAS TO ACT LIKE THAT

WE DO NOT EXPECT ISRAEL TO ACT LIKE THAT

and when they condone it by doing nothing it breeds contempt which is what israel is seeing around the world with less and less people being sympathetic to the cause.

You forgot to start your post with, "OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong. What the IDF did was NOT 'completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis'"

That's a familiar pattern, much like our Alex. Say something that isn't true, have it pointed out, ignore it and just follow up with more questions. It's like a one way street with some of you people.

Ok I was wrong Im sorry what the IDF did was not completely ignored by you a pro Isralei

Now can you answer the questions cause it dont matter what you or any othe pro isralei thinks its your governements actions that count

Thank you.

I have no idea why the Israeli gov't didn't arrest and put on trial IDF soldiers who used a boy as a shield. It is wrong but doesn't make a lot of sense to do it in the first place since Hamas & Friends care even less about the kid than the IDF. Regardless, it is wrong and something should be done about it by the government. That said, I'm not familiar with the issue except for what you posted above so there is a good chance I don't have both sides of the story.

An interesting Article written by a Jewish Lady and titled.

Israel is an Apartheid State

Before I deal with why these unprecedented attacks are taking place, I'd like to share with you a great talk I heard last night at Ryerson from Na'eem Jeena: , a leading activist and academic from South Africa who works for Palestinian solidarity. He told us that South African apartheid had three pillars of apartheid and Israel shares all three.

1. Different rights for different races In the case of Israel, it is different rights for Jews and for non-Jews. For example the law of return of 1950 says Jews can return to Israel and be given citizenship even if they have no links to the country other than mythical biblical ones; whereas Palestinians cannot return even if their parents or grandparents lived there.

Are we to assume that the Palestinians wouldn't treat Israelis differently if they were in charge? I guess the solution to the Israeli "apartheid state" is to kill all the Israelis and replace their country with an even more brutal, apartheid Palestinian state. Correct?

An interesting Article written by a Jewish Lady and titled.

Israel is an Apartheid State

Before I deal with why these unprecedented attacks are taking place, I'd like to share with you a great talk I heard last night at Ryerson from Na'eem Jeena: , a leading activist and academic from South Africa who works for Palestinian solidarity. He told us that South African apartheid had three pillars of apartheid and Israel shares all three.

1. Different rights for different races In the case of Israel, it is different rights for Jews and for non-Jews. For example the law of return of 1950 says Jews can return to Israel and be given citizenship even if they have no links to the country other than mythical biblical ones; whereas Palestinians cannot return even if their parents or grandparents lived there.

Are we to assume that the Palestinians wouldn't treat Israelis differently if they were in charge? I guess the solution to the Israeli "apartheid state" is to kill all the Israelis and replace their country with an even more brutal, apartheid Palestinian state. Correct?

Both your above replys are exactly my point in other posts instead of addressing the points and problems they are thrown right back at the palestiniam problems to mask the reall Israeli issues and just stir the pot more.

That's an untrue statement. I'm pro-Israel and I haven''t IGNORED it partially or completely. I akknowledged what they did was wrong when I replied "What the ID did in your link above is bad,".

So tell me why Israel did not take action against those soldgiers and prosceute them in front of the world and tell us that that is NOT ACCEPTABLE for the IDF to act like that nobody cares that you think its wrong

We want to see the Isralei governement act within the law and take responsibility for wehen there soldgiers act like terrosits

WE EXPECT HAMAS TO ACT LIKE THAT

WE DO NOT EXPECT ISRAEL TO ACT LIKE THAT

and when they condone it by doing nothing it breeds contempt which is what israel is seeing around the world with less and less people being sympathetic to the cause.

You forgot to start your post with, "OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong. What the IDF did was NOT 'completely IGNORED by the Pro Israelis'"

That's a familiar pattern, much like our Alex. Say something that isn't true, have it pointed out, ignore it and just follow up with more questions. It's like a one way street with some of you people.

Ok I was wrong Im sorry what the IDF did was not completely ignored by you a pro Isralei

Now can you answer the questions cause it dont matter what you or any othe pro isralei thinks its your governements actions that count

Thank you.

I have no idea why the Israeli gov't didn't arrest and put on trial IDF soldiers who used a boy as a shield. It is wrong but doesn't make a lot of sense to do it in the first place since Hamas & Friends care even less about the kid than the IDF. Regardless, it is wrong and something should be done about it by the government. That said, I'm not familiar with the issue except for what you posted above so there is a good chance I don't have both sides of the story.

There is no other side to the story they were seen using a child as a shield what are you looking for a reason to excuse them ?? and because the Israel Governement did not act just adds to the list of illegal crimes that Israel has commited without prosecution.

And you wonder why the world is turning against Israel its pretty clear to everyone except pro Israelis

Let me put a mathematical question to those of you that might be Religion of Peace apologists.

It is estimated there are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world.

It is estimated that between 1% and 7% would be considered Islamic extremists.

Assuming the lower number of 1%, that would mean there are 15,700,000 potential terrorists out there to try and kill each and every non-believer in the world.

This means their potential military force of 15,700,000 is larger than the combined forces of China (7,555,000), Russia (3,796,100), US (3,789,396), Netherlands (88,630), United Kingdom (435,500) and New Zealand (11,974).

If this doesn't get your attention, it is likely nothing will.

______________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia....umber_of_troops

http://en.wikipedia....slim_population

http://en.wikipedia....lamic_terrorism

Where did you get that outrageous estimate of "between 1% and 7%"?

Unless that is a fact, your sensationalism is just that.

I have read the 1% figure various places. The Gallup Poll in 2008 said 7%.

Google "Special Report Muslim World Gallup". Download the PDF and, viola, there it is.

Remember, Harcourt. Google is your friend.

Let me put a mathematical question to those of you that might be Religion of Peace apologists.

It is estimated there are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world.

It is estimated that between 1% and 7% would be considered Islamic extremists.

Assuming the lower number of 1%, that would mean there are 15,700,000 potential terrorists out there to try and kill each and every non-believer in the world.

This means their potential military force of 15,700,000 is larger than the combined forces of China (7,555,000), Russia (3,796,100), US (3,789,396), Netherlands (88,630), United Kingdom (435,500) and New Zealand (11,974).

If this doesn't get your attention, it is likely nothing will.

______________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia....umber_of_troops

http://en.wikipedia....slim_population

http://en.wikipedia....lamic_terrorism

Where did you get that outrageous estimate of "between 1% and 7%"?

Unless that is a fact, your sensationalism is just that.

I have read the 1% figure various places. The Gallup Poll in 2008 said 7%.

Google "Special Report Muslim World Gallup". Download the PDF and, viola, there it is.

Remember, Harcourt. Google is your friend.

Too many links...I'm not going to download several pdfs to find out exactly how the poll was conducted and where.......sure, in certain select comunities the figure might be 7%...even more in isolated Swat Valley villages.....but the 1% you have tied to your other figures needs to also be "1% of the world Muslim population" since you have quoted the Muslim population with regard to worldwide figures.

It's really not good enough to say, "I read it somewhere, therefore it must be true and relevant".

A very interesting investigation into the Israeli incursion into Gaza by The Guardian a British newspaper while its is Pro Palestinian I do find it interesting that Israel each time they were requested an interview to give there side and view the with evidence collected they chose to refuse an interview and instead issue a wriiten standard statement when the obvious evidence presented in the documentary cleary shows soemthing different especially when they have state of the art war equipment.

Again anyone sitting on the fence like myself has to look at whats presented and Israels response and make a judgement like it said in the documentary Israel has the video evidence to refute all allegations if they chose to do so

when they dont it makes you wonder

Let me put a mathematical question to those of you that might be Religion of Peace apologists.

It is estimated there are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world.

It is estimated that between 1% and 7% would be considered Islamic extremists.

Assuming the lower number of 1%, that would mean there are 15,700,000 potential terrorists out there to try and kill each and every non-believer in the world.

This means their potential military force of 15,700,000 is larger than the combined forces of China (7,555,000), Russia (3,796,100), US (3,789,396), Netherlands (88,630), United Kingdom (435,500) and New Zealand (11,974).

If this doesn't get your attention, it is likely nothing will.

______________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia....umber_of_troops

http://en.wikipedia....slim_population

http://en.wikipedia....lamic_terrorism

Where did you get that outrageous estimate of "between 1% and 7%"?

Unless that is a fact, your sensationalism is just that.

I have read the 1% figure various places. The Gallup Poll in 2008 said 7%.

Google "Special Report Muslim World Gallup". Download the PDF and, viola, there it is.

Remember, Harcourt. Google is your friend.

Too many links...I'm not going to download several pdfs to find out exactly how the poll was conducted and where.......sure, in certain select comunities the figure might be 7%...even more in isolated Swat Valley villages.....but the 1% you have tied to your other figures needs to also be "1% of the world Muslim population" since you have quoted the Muslim population with regard to worldwide figures.

It's really not good enough to say, "I read it somewhere, therefore it must be true and relevant".

Just so you won't be totally ignorant, the poll was conducted of some 95,000 people in every Arab country, Iran not included. I am sure you know why Iran was not included.

Be careful how you answer anything else. It might be a sneaky little trap with somebody waiting to pounce.

they dont it makes you wonder

Nope. The BBC put the blame firmly on the radical Arab activists and the BBC is hardly pro-Isaeli.

they dont it makes you wonder

Nope. The BBC put the blame firmly on the radical Arab activists and the BBC is hardly pro-Isaeli.

I would of thought that they would want to refute the accusations of targeting a familly having tea and then blowing them up using an UAV they have video of the whole incident and could easily refute the accusation and make the accusers look silly but they did not which implys that it was indeed a killing of an innocent famillyhaving tea.

They quickly released video of the boarding of the maru in defense of themselves so it still make you wonder and lean on the side of those that spoke out.

Sorry, I thought you were talking abut the subject of the thread, but are off on another tangent.

Just so you won't be totally ignorant, the poll was conducted of some 95,000 people in every Arab country, Iran not included. I am sure you know why Iran was not included.

Be careful how you answer anything else. It might be a sneaky little trap with somebody waiting to pounce.

I don't think you're capable of setting cunning traps....but that's by the by.....anyway....Iran is not Arabic, is it? You imply that it is.

If you have all these numbers, why not reproduce the entire article here? Or at least the pertinant parts that show that the "1-7%" is representative of the world Muslim population.

Just so you won't be totally ignorant, the poll was conducted of some 95,000 people in every Arab country, Iran not included. I am sure you know why Iran was not included.

Be careful how you answer anything else. It might be a sneaky little trap with somebody waiting to pounce.

I don't think you're capable of setting cunning traps....but that's by the by.....anyway....Iran is not Arabic, is it? You imply that it is.

If you have all these numbers, why not reproduce the entire article here? Or at least the pertinant parts that show that the "1-7%" is representative of the world Muslim population.

Do your own research.

I'm still waiting on you to answer if Israel has the right to exist.

Just so you won't be totally ignorant, the poll was conducted of some 95,000 people in every Arab country, Iran not included. I am sure you know why Iran was not included.

Be careful how you answer anything else. It might be a sneaky little trap with somebody waiting to pounce.

I don't think you're capable of setting cunning traps....but that's by the by.....anyway....Iran is not Arabic, is it? You imply that it is.

If you have all these numbers, why not reproduce the entire article here? Or at least the pertinant parts that show that the "1-7%" is representative of the world Muslim population.

Do your own research.

I'm still waiting on you to answer if Israel has the right to exist.

And here we have the right-wing prevarication yet again.

:rolleyes:

Just so you won't be totally ignorant, the poll was conducted of some 95,000 people in every Arab country, Iran not included. I am sure you know why Iran was not included.

Be careful how you answer anything else. It might be a sneaky little trap with somebody waiting to pounce.

I don't think you're capable of setting cunning traps....but that's by the by.....anyway....Iran is not Arabic, is it? You imply that it is.

If you have all these numbers, why not reproduce the entire article here? Or at least the pertinant parts that show that the "1-7%" is representative of the world Muslim population.

Do your own research.

I'm still waiting on you to answer if Israel has the right to exist.

i'll answer tha for you

Yes they do

You seem to think that they can exist without fighting off their enemies and their enemies are the ones that have made that impossible.

Remember, Harcourt. Google is your friend.

I doubt that considering how often Google proves him wrong.

Thank you.

I have no idea why the Israeli gov't didn't arrest and put on trial IDF soldiers who used a boy as a shield. It is wrong but doesn't make a lot of sense to do it in the first place since Hamas & Friends care even less about the kid than the IDF. Regardless, it is wrong and something should be done about it by the government. That said, I'm not familiar with the issue except for what you posted above so there is a good chance I don't have both sides of the story.

There is no other side to the story they were seen using a child as a shield what are you looking for a reason to excuse them ??

If the only source to a controversial event is a single short post on a forum by someone who has admittedly taken sides, then any reasonable, clear-thinking person would think that maybe there is more to the story. Sorry, that isn't "looking for a reason to excuse them", that's just common sense. Maybe the other side is bullshit. Maybe it isn't. I don't know.

Did the IDF entered a ship in international waters?

Who cares?

We will go trough this step by step UG and your supporters of terror.

Please answer, did they, or not?

sbk told you to stop calling other posters that stupid phrase. Grow up!

Can we please act like grown ups & stop the name calling & taunts.

Can we please act like grown ups & stop the name calling & taunts.

hear hear, dont think theres much to be gained anymore by reading this thread, petty arguements with no resolved issues in the end.

Its no wonder the real conflict will never end.

Did the IDF entered a ship in international waters?

Yes IDF commandos boarded the ship in International waters in the dead of night killing 9 people

You seem to think that they can exist without fighting off their enemies and their enemies are the ones that have made that impossible.

No UG what I think is there is no need for this type of behaviour which breeds contempt for the IDF I dont see these kids as enemies or do you condone this type of behavious as fighting off there enemies.

Theres plenty more UG and what I think is these videos of Israelis Beating and abusing Palestinian children shooting a handcuffed blindfolded prisoner is EXACTLY why people are turning against Israel because there is no reason to act like that can they not defend themselves without beating children

I understand its pretty hard to defend Israel when you see picutres and videos like this ITS PURE BULLYING ABUSE and no wonder the Palestinians hate them cause when I see stuff like that guy smacking thet child in the head and the other one throwing him down I start to hate them too

I think it was a mistake not to recognize Hamas after the election. In a democracy, people have to learn (slowly) that they are voting for <deleted>. We should have let Hamas ruin life for the Palestinians without the US and others help. Let the people see for themselves that they voted the wrong way so they can vote the bums out next time. Otherwise, Hamas is just given a convenient excuse to use with the electorate. All of this doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't protect itself, they should.

What 'next time'? It's like most dictatorial parties - vote them in once - no more elections on a level playing field.

I have worked with many Palestinians over the years, engineers, business owners, labourers. All have a very strong hatred for Israel - will never say anything good about any Israeli government, left or right. It is a knee-jerk reaction that seems to have been with them all their lives. This is not just those from refugee camps, but those still in their ancestral homes, still with property, educated in UK or US. Just about every Palestinian I have associated with.

As many people in the UK can tell you, these arguments are unresolveable.

We had problems with Ireland from the time of the first Queen Elizabeth until the first world war and on to the mid-nineteen-twenties.

This was resolved by giving the Irish their independence. But as the province of Ulster was populated by more Protestants than Catholics, and these wanted to stay with the UK, there was no independence granted to Ulster.

The Catholic extremists, supported from their comrades outside Ulster, continued the fight for freedom until the end of the last century, when a degree of self-government was agreed.

But this is not good enough for some die-hard fanatics and there are still bombings, shootings, other attacks in the province.

Some people will never be satisfied until they see their 'enemies' totally destroyed. There is no negotiating with them. No reasoning. Nothing you give them is enough. This is the hard lesson of Northern Ireland and it should be learned by all negotiators when trying to deal with sectarian or religious or quasi-political differences.

Rational people will see some of both sides points of view. Fanatics will see only their own - and this point of view will get more extreme with the concessions offered.