marky, Modern History mate, if its twice my age I couldnt give a

That is painfully obvious. But it is such a chore to educate you in even your simple answers to obvious questions. Without a decent grounding in history it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with any other than drunken cab drivers or people confined to instructions or certain minorities posting on expat forums. I think by and large everyone is to be congratulated for reading so much of what you write with the limited resources available to you.

Coming from you, well thats a bit rich. Of course we all know why someone like yourself has to constantly qualify oneself & has so much difficulties in posting without mentioning you're dreamnt sexual misconduct.

Neverdie is far less nutty than the other libs. Lighten up guys.

I have heard there is a large group of Israeli students that are planning to take a ship to Istanbul to provide relief for the Kurds and Armenians that have been oppressed by Turkey since the early 20th century.

What think you about this idea?

______________________________________________________

Here is the latest information on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. For your information, Stratfor is one of the leading intelligence analysts in the world. Read it only if you really want to know what is going on.

The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance

June 8, 2010 | 0856 GMT

By George Friedman

Last week’s events off the coast of Israel continue to resonate. Turkish-Israeli relations have not quite collapsed since then but are at their lowest level since Israel’s founding. U.S.-Israeli tensions have emerged, and European hostility toward Israel continues to intensify. The question has now become whether substantial consequences will follow from the incident. Put differently, the question is whether and how it will be exploited beyond the arena of public opinion.

The most significant threat to Israel would, of course, be military. International criticism is not without significance, but nations do not change direction absent direct threats to their interests. But powers outside the region are unlikely to exert military power against Israel, and even significant economic or political sanctions are unlikely to happen. Apart from the desire of outside powers to limit their involvement, this is rooted in the fact that significant actions are unlikely from inside the region either.

The first generations of Israelis lived under the threat of conventional military defeat by neighboring countries. More recent generations still faced threats, but not this one. Israel is operating in an advantageous strategic context save for the arena of public opinion and diplomatic relations and the question of Iranian nuclear weapons. All of these issues are significant, but none is as immediate a threat as the specter of a defeat in conventional warfare had been. Israel’s regional enemies are so profoundly divided among themselves and have such divergent relations with Israel that an effective coalition against Israel does not exist — and is unlikely to arise in the near future.

Given this, the probability of an effective, as opposed to rhetorical, shift in the behavior of powers outside the region is unlikely. At every level, Israel’s Arab neighbors are incapable of forming even a partial coalition against Israel. Israel is not forced to calibrate its actions with an eye toward regional consequences, explaining Israel’s willingness to accept broad international condemnation.

READ MORE HERE The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance | STRATFOR

Neverdie is far less nutty than the other libs. Lighten up guys.

Thankyou sir ,of course I proud myself on being nutty (with the required paperwork to back it up) .

and there wasnt any Weapons of Mass Destruction either!!

Too bad that you didn't tell anybody before they hung Chemical Ali for gassing the Kurds.

i suppose using white phosphorus on civilians is ok then?

I have heard there is a large group of Israeli students that are planning to take a ship to Istanbul to provide relief for the Kurds and Armenians that have been oppressed by Turkey since the early 20th century.

What think you about this idea?

______________________________________________________

Here is the latest information on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. For your information, Stratfor is one of the leading intelligence analysts in the world. Read it only if you really want to know what is going on.

The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance

June 8, 2010 | 0856 GMT

By George Friedman

Last week's events off the coast of Israel continue to resonate. Turkish-Israeli relations have not quite collapsed since then but are at their lowest level since Israel's founding. U.S.-Israeli tensions have emerged, and European hostility toward Israel continues to intensify. The question has now become whether substantial consequences will follow from the incident. Put differently, the question is whether and how it will be exploited beyond the arena of public opinion.

The most significant threat to Israel would, of course, be military. International criticism is not without significance, but nations do not change direction absent direct threats to their interests. But powers outside the region are unlikely to exert military power against Israel, and even significant economic or political sanctions are unlikely to happen. Apart from the desire of outside powers to limit their involvement, this is rooted in the fact that significant actions are unlikely from inside the region either.

The first generations of Israelis lived under the threat of conventional military defeat by neighboring countries. More recent generations still faced threats, but not this one. Israel is operating in an advantageous strategic context save for the arena of public opinion and diplomatic relations and the question of Iranian nuclear weapons. All of these issues are significant, but none is as immediate a threat as the specter of a defeat in conventional warfare had been. Israel's regional enemies are so profoundly divided among themselves and have such divergent relations with Israel that an effective coalition against Israel does not exist — and is unlikely to arise in the near future.

Given this, the probability of an effective, as opposed to rhetorical, shift in the behavior of powers outside the region is unlikely. At every level, Israel's Arab neighbors are incapable of forming even a partial coalition against Israel. Israel is not forced to calibrate its actions with an eye toward regional consequences, explaining Israel's willingness to accept broad international condemnation.

READ MORE HERE The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance | STRATFOR

What he writes is true enough,,,,except for one significant point; that which I've highlighted.

Of course military action against Israel would be very significant, but most unlikely to ever occur from the West.

Thus, being so unrealistic, it is moot.

What would pose a significant threat to Israel as a stick to pull them into line, would be the actual withdrawal of all the financial and military aid that the US suplies to them.

Interesting to note the gist of the article is that indeed Israel needs some reining in. Good to read it from "one of the leading intelligence analysts in the world.".

What he writes is true enough,,,,except for one significant point; that which I've highlighted.

Of course military action against Israel would be very significant, but most unlikely to ever occur from the West.

Thus, being so unrealistic, it is moot.

What would pose a significant threat to Israel as a stick to pull them into line, would be the actual withdrawal of all the financial and military aid that the US suplies to them.

Interesting to note the gist of the article is that indeed Israel needs some reining in. Good to read it from "one of the leading intelligence analysts in the world.".

I would surmise the threat of withdrawal of financial and military aid by the US is an even more unrealistic event than that of Arab military action. Thus your argument is moot as well.

and there wasnt any Weapons of Mass Destruction either!!

Too bad that you didn't tell anybody before they hung Chemical Ali for gassing the Kurds.

i suppose using white phosphorus on civilians is ok then?

Chemical Ali prefered Mustard Gas.

marky, Modern History mate, if its twice my age I couldnt give a

That is painfully obvious. But it is such a chore to educate you in even your simple answers to obvious questions. Without a decent grounding in history it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with any other than drunken cab drivers or people confined to instructions or certain minorities posting on expat forums. I think by and large everyone is to be congratulated for reading so much of what you write with the limited resources available to you.

Coming from you, well thats a bit rich. Of course we all know why someone like yourself has to constantly qualify oneself & has so much difficulties in posting without mentioning you're dreamnt sexual misconduct.

I don’t dream about sexual misconduct. I don’t have the kind of hang-ups that would qualify most experiences of a sexual nature as misconduct. But even if I did what does that have to do with me pointing out that if you don’t know anything about history you are not worth reading. And what does an aid ship and war mongering have to do with sexual misconduct anyway? Do you think by trying to discredit everything I say by mentioning sex that anyone thinks you bright or witty?

Get over it. You got bested and are sorry you said that history is unimportant. It a statement no rational person would make.

It is hardly a surprise that cultures with no written history were quickly eaten up by societies who remembered and profited from history.

There is simply no rational or logical explanation for ignoring history. Your statement that you ignore history is another way of saying you are functionally illiterate.

How many of your bosom buddies will come out on your side and belly up to the keyboard and allege that you are correct. Ya sure, “never die” we all agree history has no significance to nothing an any of them literate jag offs who moan about history ought to be shut up.

I have heard there is a large group of Israeli students that are planning to take a ship to Istanbul to provide relief for the Kurds and Armenians that have been oppressed by Turkey since the early 20th century.

What think you about this idea?

______________________________________________________

Here is the latest information on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. For your information, Stratfor is one of the leading intelligence analysts in the world. Read it only if you really want to know what is going on.

The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance

June 8, 2010 | 0856 GMT

By George Friedman

Last week's events off the coast of Israel continue to resonate. Turkish-Israeli relations have not quite collapsed since then but are at their lowest level since Israel's founding. U.S.-Israeli tensions have emerged, and European hostility toward Israel continues to intensify. The question has now become whether substantial consequences will follow from the incident. Put differently, the question is whether and how it will be exploited beyond the arena of public opinion.

The most significant threat to Israel would, of course, be military. International criticism is not without significance, but nations do not change direction absent direct threats to their interests. But powers outside the region are unlikely to exert military power against Israel, and even significant economic or political sanctions are unlikely to happen. Apart from the desire of outside powers to limit their involvement, this is rooted in the fact that significant actions are unlikely from inside the region either.

The first generations of Israelis lived under the threat of conventional military defeat by neighboring countries. More recent generations still faced threats, but not this one. Israel is operating in an advantageous strategic context save for the arena of public opinion and diplomatic relations and the question of Iranian nuclear weapons. All of these issues are significant, but none is as immediate a threat as the specter of a defeat in conventional warfare had been. Israel's regional enemies are so profoundly divided among themselves and have such divergent relations with Israel that an effective coalition against Israel does not exist — and is unlikely to arise in the near future.

Given this, the probability of an effective, as opposed to rhetorical, shift in the behavior of powers outside the region is unlikely. At every level, Israel's Arab neighbors are incapable of forming even a partial coalition against Israel. Israel is not forced to calibrate its actions with an eye toward regional consequences, explaining Israel's willingness to accept broad international condemnation.

READ MORE HERE The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance | STRATFOR

This part is worth repeating,

"The more independent Gaza becomes, the greater the threat it poses to Israel. The suppression of Gaza is much safer and is something Fatah ultimately supports, Egypt participates in, Jordan is relieved by and Syria is ultimately indifferent to."

It is clear that the "world" has a bigger problem with the bloackade than Israel's neighbors.

While the rules are very relaxed here, they still exist and you are expected to be civil to one another. Nothing important or earth changing is being posted here so just relax and have a discussion.

Egypt participates in,

Not anymore & seems to be staying open on their end.....Seems the harshness of the blockade is backfiring as there is now a gapping hole

"This comes as part of Egypt's moves to ease the suffering of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip."

While the Israeli military has their game with Hamas....Mexican stand off

The reality is there are people there & they suffer needlessly as always.

Of course the Israelis will say blame it on Hamas as if they have a choice.

Not unlike the Afghanistan people viewed as collateral damages.While their destroyed by the military that invades them saying..blame it on the bad guys hiding in your house.

Truth is both situations make more enemies than friends.

Creates more danger for themselves then safety

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502H820100601

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3901671,00.html

Egypt opens border with Gaza for humanitarian aid - Telegraph

While the rules are very relaxed here, they still exist and you are expected to be civil to one another.

Although I agree with this

Nothing important or earth changing is being posted here so just relax and have a discussion.

And I agree with the latter part of this sentence:

But surely a (disputed) illegal raid on an aid ship in International waters with people being shot in the head by a military unit that has gained widespread criticism, even from certain friendly quarters is important and perhaps given time, earth changing?

marky, Modern History mate, if its twice my age I couldnt give a

That is painfully obvious. But it is such a chore to educate you in even your simple answers to obvious questions. Without a decent grounding in history it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with any other than drunken cab drivers or people confined to instructions or certain minorities posting on expat forums. I think by and large everyone is to be congratulated for reading so much of what you write with the limited resources available to you.

Coming from you, well thats a bit rich. Of course we all know why someone like yourself has to constantly qualify oneself & has so much difficulties in posting without mentioning you're dreamnt sexual misconduct.

I don't dream about sexual misconduct. I don't have the kind of hang-ups that would qualify most experiences of a sexual nature as misconduct. But even if I did what does that have to do with me pointing out that if you don't know anything about history you are not worth reading. And what does an aid ship and war mongering have to do with sexual misconduct anyway? Do you think by trying to discredit everything I say by mentioning sex that anyone thinks you bright or witty?

Get over it. You got bested and are sorry you said that history is unimportant. It a statement no rational person would make.

It is hardly a surprise that cultures with no written history were quickly eaten up by societies who remembered and profited from history.

There is simply no rational or logical explanation for ignoring history. Your statement that you ignore history is another way of saying you are functionally illiterate.

How many of your bosom buddies will come out on your side and belly up to the keyboard and allege that you are correct. Ya sure, "never die" we all agree history has no significance to nothing an any of them literate jag offs who moan about history ought to be shut up.

Well, if you're going to throw down the gauntlet, I don't mind stepping up.....

Neverdie was not bested. You have made a fool of yourself by taking seriously words that were never meant to be taken seriously. But then, you have shown yourself to be humourless before, so it is not a suprise.

It's ironic that one who tries so hard to appear to be intellectually superior actually comes across as rather dim.

It's ironic that one who champions the learning of history fails to learn from his own recent history on this board.

"Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it".

Mark is deliberately drawing fire, can I sugeest people redirect their reposte to a more credible target, although I do realise that in regard to this thread, that is an oxymoron.

It's ironic that one who tries so hard to appear to be intellectually superior actually comes across as rather dim.

People in glass houses...

But surely a (disputed) illegal raid on an aid ship in International waters with people being shot in the head by a military unit that has gained widespread criticism, even from certain friendly quarters is important

Surely a ship full of fake "peace" activists and mercenaries who have announced to the world that they are going to run a legal blockade meant to keep out missles and war material and then violently attacked soldiers is important...

Reuters busted ONCE AGAIN for falsifying war footage to demonize Israelis and glorify terrorists.

Hamas fake photos: Another Cropped Reuters Photo Deletes Another Knife – And a Pool of Blood - Charles Johnson - The Lizard Annex - True/Slant

Hezbollah fake photos: Reuters Photo Fraud

Well, if you're going to throw down the gauntlet, I don't mind stepping up.....

Neverdie was not bested. You have made a fool of yourself by taking seriously words that were never meant to be taken seriously. But then, you have shown yourself to be humourless before, so it is not a suprise.

That just about covers it. Of course Mark, I appreciate 'history', but for the 'stirring comment' I made towards UG, I wasnt trying to discuss something that happened two or three hundred years ago but more a reflection on modern times. I was having a dig at UG of course there was nothing in it (except for you) because most here would know I have alot of time for UG, he is TRUELY ENTERTAINING and you, well err, I'll be nice and listen to what cdnvic said above.

Marky, you really need to get over yourself. This is a internet forum, its a means for people with both common and not so common interests to join together in conversation. People make friends here and generally have a good time, then THERE ARE THE OTHERS:rolleyes: .

It's ironic that one who tries so hard to appear to be intellectually superior actually comes across as rather dim.

People in glass houses...

Now now, UG, clearly you've missed medication time again. I don't feel Harcourt comes across that way, perhaps you're thick skin is thinning with age .

My post was not aimed at you neverdie. It was directed at someone that the shoe fits very well.

Hot off the Top 10 charts.

It's ironic that one who tries so hard to appear to be intellectually superior actually comes across as rather dim.

People in glass houses...

Now now, UG, clearly you've missed medication time again. I don't feel Harcourt comes across that way, perhaps you're thick skin is thinning with age .

I was thinking more of pot-kettle than a glass house but UG was spot on all the same.

Hot off the Top 10 charts.

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Good stuff. Both hilarious and factual at the same time.

My post was not aimed at you neverdie. It was directed at someone that the shoe fits very well.

I actually understood that old mate, but you didnt read what I said to you, did you?

Reuters busted ONCE AGAIN for falsifying war footage to demonize Israelis and glorify terrorists.

Hamas fake photos: Another Cropped Reuters Photo Deletes Another Knife – And a Pool of Blood - Charles Johnson - The Lizard Annex - True/Slant

Hezbollah fake photos: Reuters Photo Fraud

Israel isnt squeaky clean either when it comes to falsifying media.

using outdated photos

hopefully, we will all get a full independant impartial enquiry on what occured, and we might have this tit for tat stuff end.

I don't feel Harcourt comes across that way...

Of course I understood, but either you are sadly mistaken or you haven't been reading many of his posts.

Hot off the Top 10 charts.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FOGG_osOoVg

Good stuff. Both hilarious and factual at the same time.

Factual? If you think that right-wing propaganda is factual, you are more deluded than I thought.

Reuters busted ONCE AGAIN for falsifying war footage to demonize Israelis and glorify terrorists.

Hamas fake photos: Another Cropped Reuters Photo Deletes Another Knife And a Pool of Blood - Charles Johnson - The Lizard Annex - True/Slant

Hezbollah fake photos: Reuters Photo Fraud

Israel isnt squeaky clean either when it comes to falsifying media.

Either are you. There is one photo that is supposed to be outdated - that I have never seen before other than on this one terrorist enabling website - and a bunch of sarcastic comments about crude weapons that were used very effectively by the mercenaries in the video footage that was all over TV and the internet . They are not exactly the same thing.

I don't feel Harcourt comes across that way...

Of course I understood, but either you are sadly mistaken or you haven't been reading many of his posts.

Maybe either my skin or head is to thick.

Interesting the subjects and things we cover here, we really should have a group get together......with that decision having been made, now I've just got to work out what weapons I should take