Foreigners may not be aware of the authors involved in this dispute but will have no trouble thinking of comparable writersin their own countries.

Bryce Courtenay on Peter Carey: Crap, boring, bullshit

BRYCE Courtenay's long-running stoush with the literary establishment has flared spectacularly.

The best-selling author launched a withering attack on Peter Carey, labelling the prize-winning author's closing speech at the recent Sydney Writers' Festival "absolute bullshit",

New York-based Carey used his speech to lament a decline in reading of serious, literary novels in favour of popular fiction. “We are getting dumber every day. We are really literally forgetting how to read,’’ he said

When asked by online culture writer Jason Whittaker to comment for Crikey.com on the Booker prizewinner's comments, Courtenay let fly.

"If the Peter Careys only existed then we wouldn't have any books at all because nobody could afford to publish them," Courtenay told Whittaker.

"Peter Carey is a perfect example of that kind of inane literacy (sic) snobbery. If I'm a popular writer then Peter Carey is an unpopular writer. If I'm a best-selling writer then he's a worst-selling writer.

"There is no such thing as a wonderful book that gets lost. It just doesn’t happen. But what is getting lost is a lot of very, very ordinary books that have literary pretensions. And they’re just very ordinary books.

"There’s the assumption that just because you’re a literary writer therefore you are writing something of importance, of interest or entertainment or education or ability. It’s absolute crap."

Whittaker said Courtenay "was trying to make the point that he could write a literary book if he wanted, but that Carey couldn't write a popular book, which is quite an arrogant thing to say, but no more arrogant than Carey".

Although the interview, which was posted yesterday on Crikey's website, contains surprising comments such as "the reading public is homogeneous", the 76-year-old author of books such as The Power of One and The Potato Factory was not available to clarify them.

Carey referred to the "cultural crap" given to children in place of literature. Courtenay also took a swipe at literary writers "dependent on the Australia Council handouts for their entire careers".

"They capture the school market because their cohorts sit on the boards," he said. "And therefore reading in schools has been an appalling process because kids will tell you very happily that the stuff they're made to read with singular exception is crap."

Bryce Courtenay on Peter Carey: Crap, boring, bullshit | The Daily Telegraph

I love it.

:lol:I love it when egos get in the way of the truth.

I didn't read either comment but I DO know critics. Too often critics are so full of their own importance that it clouds their brain.

There are many forms of writing and not all of it can be considered good... even though it might be very marketable. Most writers want to earn a little something for their effort. Publishers take 98% of any profit. In fiction there are only a handful of actual plots and there is very little new in the world of writing. Beyond actual proper English (providing it is being written in English) there has to be something of interest for the reader; otherwise there is no point. And, translations from other languages into English can lose something in the translation. It all depends on what market the writer is attempting to address. Trying to compare a literary novel to "private Investigator" fiction is ridiculous, even if the PI stuff makes more money for the writer.

Agreed Ian, I remember a comment by Stephen King about how one of his modern literature teachers in college described his writing as worthless.

Peter Carey is not a critic, he is an award winning author. So, it seems he does have some concept of what it takes to write a book. And while I have read several of Peter Carey's works including the True History of the Kelly Gang (very enjoyable, I thought), Oscar and Lucinda and Illywhacker, whereas Bryce Courtenay, I have never heard of. Stephen King I consider a rather hackneyed author frankly, read one book and that was it. I don't enjoy the horror genre and didn't find his writing compelling enough to make me read a genre that doesn't appeal.

That's not to say I don't enjoy popular fiction, or that I am a literary snob, (I do and I am not) but I think to suggest that Peter Carey is merely a critic belies an ignorance of his works. Google is your friend.

I loved the Power of One by Bryce Courtenay and would not be surprised if it turns out to be a classic.

I hated the True History of he Kelly Gang, but it was the style that put me off - which can be a personal thing. I would not say that it was a bad book.

I loved The Stand by Stephen King and have enjoyed some of his other stuff. Many are most entertaining.

IMHO, most major authors have to appeal to somebody and if you like it, it is good. if you don't, that does not make it "bad".

“We are getting dumber every day. We are really literally forgetting how to read,’’ he said

Actually, Peter Carey has a very good point, I think. Compared to how much time we spend on Thaivisa, have you spent an equal amount of time reading a book? any book? I admit, i have always been a serious book reader but have found the internet sucking my time away from reading. So, last night, I turned the computer OFF and read a book!

So, thank you Peter Carey for reminding me how much I enjoy reading.

Peter Carey is not a critic, he is an award winning author. So, it seems he does have some concept of what it takes to write a book. And while I have read several of Peter Carey's works including the True History of the Kelly Gang (very enjoyable, I thought), Oscar and Lucinda and Illywhacker, whereas Bryce Courtenay, I have never heard of. Stephen King I consider a rather hackneyed author frankly, read one book and that was it. I don't enjoy the horror genre and didn't find his writing compelling enough to make me read a genre that doesn't appeal.

That's not to say I don't enjoy popular fiction, or that I am a literary snob, (I do and I am not) but I think to suggest that Peter Carey is merely a critic belies an ignorance of his works. Google is your friend.

sbk, "My Life As A Fake", by Peter Carey is also well worth a read (though it does help if you have some knowledge of the Ern Malley affair.)

I've tried a couple of Bryce Courtnay books and didn't think he was in the same literary league as Carey, must be my taste I guess.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has read Carey latest books, "His Illegal Self" & "Theft - A Love Story" as I haven't come across them yet.

"We are getting dumber every day. We are really literally forgetting how to read,'' he said

Actually, Peter Carey has a very good point, I think. Compared to how much time we spend on Thaivisa, have you spent an equal amount of time reading a book? any book? I admit, i have always been a serious book reader but have found the internet sucking my time away from reading. So, last night, I turned the computer OFF and read a book!

So, thank you Peter Carey for reminding me how much I enjoy reading.

Good point, sbk. I enjoy reading a good novel in a book form, but I could NEVER read the same novel off a computer screen. However, I think Ulysses brings up some good points. Not everyone has the same taste in books. I have tried reading a few so called classics and got bogged down after the first few chapters. Too many writers are too full of their own eloquence and verbosity to hold the average reader's attention. But, as I stated before, there are so many different types of writing directed at entirely different audiences that saying one is good and another is bad is not a good practise. No matter how you try to critisize you come off as being elitist.

I usually manage two books, sometimes more, a week. Not many are heavy reading I'll admit.

I've got a few Biographies sitting there at the moment that someone gave me that I thought would be hard going but I'm quite enjoying them.

I am at the moment reading a hard back version of all the Winnie the Pooh books. What i took for granted as a kid has found me laughing out loud now!!

Goodbye to all that......Graves. Never tired of reading it, simply moving and inspiring at the same time........Love it

The Electric Acid Koolaid Test, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Lord of the Flies, Papillion are all favorites. 

I am at the moment reading a hard back version of all the Winnie the Pooh books. What i took for granted as a kid has found me laughing out loud now!!

I love those old books by A.A. Milne. I still have my original copies from when I was a child. The books are over 60 years old. I have memorized about a dozen of his poems from "Now we are Six" and recite them to my grand kids. My daughter has newer copies and they are still popular. Good writing transcends time.

I loved the Power of One by Bryce Courtenay and would not be surprised if it turns out to be a classic.

So did I. He's a wonderful story-teller.

“We are getting dumber every day. We are really literally forgetting how to read,’’ he said

Actually, Peter Carey has a very good point, I think. Compared to how much time we spend on Thaivisa, have you spent an equal amount of time reading a book? any book?

I read for at least an hour every day.

I was a great reader right up until the day I had my son then I didn't read anything more challenging than a magazine for over 2 years. Last year I picked up a book again & am getting through a couple a week at present. I'll try to read anything except biographies & history books. I don't care if what I am reading is commercially popular fiction or a classic, if it appeals then I read it. Literary snobbery doesn't compute

I read lots of classics when I was a teenager - all of Dickens, Stendhal, Proust, Dostoyevsky. I also read people like Solzhenitsyn. Nowadays I just like books that tell a good story or make me laugh.

I also read most of the classics when I was younger, but don't have the patience for them any more. The closest I have come recently is reading a number of short stories and novels by Somerset Maugham.

I think he is wonderful although he was not considered a top writer during his lifetime. I predict that he will go down in history as one of the greats.

I like to read William Blake whilst I'm having a shit.

“We are led to believe a lie When we see not thro’ the eye, Which was born in a night to perish in a night, When the soul slept in beams of light.”

Anybody read any decent books?

Regards.

Agreed Ian, I remember a comment by Stephen King about how one of his modern literature teachers in college described his writing as worthless.

Even King describes his own writing as the "The literary equivalent of a Big Mac an fries from McDonalds", though sometimes that hits the spot. As for the OP I'd say both writers raise good points.

I loved the Power of One by Bryce Courtenay and would not be surprised if it turns out to be a classic.

I hated the True History of he Kelly Gang, but it was the style that put me off - which can be a personal thing. I would not say that it was a bad book.

I loved The Stand by Stephen King and have enjoyed some of his other stuff. Many are most entertaining.

IMHO, most major authors have to appeal to somebody and if you like it, it is good. if you don't, that does not make it "bad".

I read both versions of The Stand, considered I think King's best work. The second version was much longer without editing and I think it suffered for that. I learned a lot about the importance of good editing from that.

I love "The Stand", a classic tale of good versus evil.

I loved the Power of One by Bryce Courtenay and would not be surprised if it turns out to be a classic.

I hated the True History of he Kelly Gang, but it was the style that put me off - which can be a personal thing. I would not say that it was a bad book.

I loved The Stand by Stephen King and have enjoyed some of his other stuff. Many are most entertaining.

IMHO, most major authors have to appeal to somebody and if you like it, it is good. if you don't, that does not make it "bad".

I read both versions of The Stand, considered I think King's best work. The second version was much longer without editing and I think it suffered for that. I learned a lot about the importance of good editing from that.

While I agree that the first books was better written, I prefer the second for the extra details. i do think that it is better to start with the first one and read the second later.

King's Gunslinger series is considered quite good as well, but I do not enjoy fantasy and did not like it.

I couldn't get into it either.

There's a short story/novella he wrote as Richard Bachman called "The Long Walk" that made as big an impression on me as anything I've read.

Set in the near future, young men volunteer for a yearly event, "The Long Walk". The one who walks the furthest wins, the prize is anything he wants.

Anyone who drops out is shot by escorting troops. Horrifying, thought provoking fiction.

While much of King's writing could be compared to fast food - tasty with little nutrition - he has a number of stories that remind me of Vonnegut, but straightforward - without the psychedelic style - like the one that sceadugenga mentioned. 

He also did a book of short stories called Different Seasons that was not horror and all of the stories (I think) have been made into movies. Actually, some of his stuff is more like steak dinners than burgers.

I couldn't get into it either.

The Gunslinger series is much more popular than any of his other books with the backpackers. All of his fantasy titles fly off the shelves while the others sell slowly but surely.

When I was on the road in the 70s we all carried a copy of "Lord of the Rings".

Lord of the Rings was a very popular series until the movies came out. Now it is fairly difficult to sell. 

It's a long read, strangely compelling. I'm on my fourth copy.

The first I gave to an American girl in Cairns in '76. The second was left on a train by an ex step daughter, the third... a handsomely bound set I got for Christmas the year before I left my first wife I never saw again.

I just went and checked my current volume, looks like it came out of a charity shop somewhere...

There was once speculation that the Russo-Finish war was the inspiration