After a weekend which saw 29 people shot in Chicago ( 54 the previous weekend, 10 dead ) The Supreme Court votes to limit the controls on gun ownership across the States ( case brought in part by a Chicago suburb ).

Now being a Brit, can someone explain the logic of this ?

Gun control is what the lawful owners of guns are made to abide by.

Gun control has no definition to folks who purchase a gun out of a car trunk.

Gun control disarms legal owners not illegal owners.

Institute stricter penalties for crimes committed with a gun. Not the lawful ownership of a gun for protection/hunting etc.

In Hong Kong we have some of the strictest gun control legislation in the world. In short, you can't get one.

With these measures in place we have such negligible gun crime to make it almost non-existant. Would no gun crime not be a better state of affairs ?

America is not HK

US Population ..307,006,550

Hong Kong population...6,977,700

The United States Constitution 1791.... All Rights Reserved

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

I agree completely with Mr. Flying.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

:lol: Like in the wild West :lol:

Yeah, and one of the highest rate of murders pro capita

America is not HK

US Population ..307,006,550

Hong Kong population...6,977,700

The United States Constitution 1791.... All Rights Reserved

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

wow your history goes back that far honk kong was making its own history over 1000years before the US was discovered, HK have never invaded a country because of oil, HK have never openly backed terrorism like the US, HK natives speak better english than the yanks ,their dollar is worth more, and HK,s lower crime rate speaks for itself , the US should arm its civilians , its military war records are rubbish if they are not killing their own troops in friendly fire they are trying their best to kill off allied troops, lets face it the biggest success to come out of the US was the accidental spilling of a few tealeaves in boston harbour, so why dont you all with your racist militias sort your selves out and learn to behve like decent people

America is not HK

US Population ..307,006,550

Hong Kong population...6,977,700

The United States Constitution 1791.... All Rights Reserved

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

Was it not your right in those days to have slaves too ?

Does not the passing of time and fundamental changes to society ( I doubt you guys have to shoot your food or find off the Indians ) mean that changes in the rocks you stand on should perhaps be discussed ?

If you wish to retain a hunting rifle to protect your home and kill the odd passing suburban Buffalo, so be it. But where do MAC 10,s , AK 47's and the whole gambit of military assault rifles fit in with your idea of utopia ?

BTW the density of HK's population is relevant. If we allowed the same Gun Laws here there would be a blood bath ( much like the one you have in your inner cities ).

Again not an anti=american rant, far from it. I just wonder how the conservative vote for guns NRA, come to terms with just so much spilt American blood. Surely they would like to see the horrific gun crime figures drop ?

Edited to add the above views are not mine.

Now being a Brit, can someone explain the logic of this ?

It's so that the general public are better protected against.......

Oh, wait a minute.

 sort your selves out and learn to behve like decent people 

That is rich coming from an Ozzie/Brit. You lot have plenty to answer for. 

Gun control is what the lawful owners of guns are made to abide by.

Gun control has no definition to folks who purchase a gun out of a car trunk.

Gun control disarms legal owners not illegal owners.

Institute stricter penalties for crimes committed with a gun. Not the lawful ownership of a gun for protection/hunting etc.

While we're at it, why not just out law crime all together, that would solve a lot of problems.

There's more than one way to kill someone. Just because a gun isn'tavailable doesn't mean everyone gets along.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Murders (per capita) by country.

USA ranks 24th.

Estonia where I used to live and never felt unsafe is ranked 7th.

The Land of Smiles is ranked 14th (gett out now! run! run!)

Hong Kong is 59th.

Saudi Arabia is 61st.

I guess the Saudis can teach Hong Kong a thing or two about safety.

Well I should not bother with the HK vs US posts

except

Who cares about the history of HK & what does it have to do with the question? I mentioned population because it does make a difference when comparing 307 million to 6 million.

As for terrorism & what the military does ...do not confuse that with the right of the people to keep & bear arms.

But as for the US has the highest murders per capita...

Here is a fresh list from March 2010 ...

You better move out of Thailand ASAP

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Thats the US down in 24th place....Yes a violent area in spots for sure,

murder by firearm yes is higher than some....but still lower than where you live & in comparison to other western countries with strict gun control quite surprising how close.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

But my feelings on guns is

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

As for rights to own slaves?? Well I imagine it was ones right to do many things at different times in history in many countries.

But "slave" and "slavery" is not in our Constitution.

You folks seem to equate guns with the cause of crimes...Do you also believe matches cause arson?

Or perhaps pencils cause spelling errors?

What ever your country allows or you allowed to disallow is fine & dandy....For You

We have a Constitution here thanks for the thought though.

As for have a this gun or that gun but not that gun.....pffft what part of Shall Not Be Infringed is not understood?

Yet actually it is......Many believe some Hollywood hype about such things as you said....

MAC 10,s , AK 47's and the whole gambit of military assault rifles

The reality is none can buy a new "assault weapons" aka: full auto fire.

All the weapons you see take one trigger pull for each shot fired. So yes you see those but they are not the same thing at all are they?

Yes a few states allow the TRANSFER of an existing full auto after a barrage of ATF certificates & fees but it is the exception not the rule.

Lastly as a competitive shooter of many years in both IPSC & High Power rifle as well as reloader

( build my own ammunition from scratch ) I know a bit about ammo &

I can tell you right now only the Military who gets free ammo can afford to shoot a full auto assault rifle & in my opinion should be taken away. Perhaps then instead of the pray & spray technique they would actually aim the dam thing

I feel stupid even saying assault weapon that is a term coined by gun grabbing nuts to induce the same fear politicians use when they say TERRORISM !!!!!!!!!!!

America is not HK

US Population ..307,006,550

Hong Kong population...6,977,700

The United States Constitution 1791.... All Rights Reserved

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

wow your history goes back that far honk kong was making its own history over 1000years before the US was discovered, HK have never invaded a country because of oil, HK have never openly backed terrorism like the US, HK natives speak better english than the yanks ,their dollar is worth more, and HK,s lower crime rate speaks for itself , the US should arm its civilians , its military war records are rubbish if they are not killing their own troops in friendly fire they are trying their best to kill off allied troops, lets face it the biggest success to come out of the US was the accidental spilling of a few tealeaves in boston harbour, so why dont you all with your racist militias sort your selves out and learn to behve like decent people

I thought the success behind Hong Kong was the British Empire, which took the rather unpopulated island, which had nothing but fishing villages, from the Qing Dynasty after their horrible military performance during the Opium War, and then turned into a base of operations for their merchantmen and military? Is my history off I wonder? I have a few books I can check.

I agree completely with Mr. Flying.

Well that is because it is the end of June full moon & all

Thanks I knew we had to have at least a few things in common eh?

While we're at it, why not just out law crime all together, that would solve a lot of problems.

There ya go

America is not HK

US Population ..307,006,550

Hong Kong population...6,977,700

The United States Constitution 1791.... All Rights Reserved

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms

Was it not your right in those days to have slaves too ?

Does not the passing of time and fundamental changes to society ( I doubt you guys have to shoot your food or find off the Indians ) mean that changes in the rocks you stand on should perhaps be discussed ?

If you wish to retain a hunting rifle to protect your home and kill the odd passing suburban Buffalo, so be it. But where do MAC 10,s , AK 47's and the whole gambit of military assault rifles fit in with your idea of utopia ?

BTW the density of HK's population is relevant. If we allowed the same Gun Laws here there would be a blood bath ( much like the one you have in your inner cities ).

Again not an anti=american rant, far from it. I just wonder how the conservative vote for guns NRA, come to terms with just so much spilt American blood. Surely they would like to see the horrific gun crime figures drop ?

Edited to add the above views are not mine.

I see you point myself. I personally don't own any firearms and don't intend to purchase any. However, I don't want the government telling me I can't. I still believe as well that maybe one day Americans will have to fight again to get our country back from the companies that have brought our politicians and we might have to fight back against an ever increasing militarize police force which seems to have more and more rights violations each year around the country. I don't like to think on such things but it's better to keep that gun buying loop hole the founders put in the Bill of Rights just in case.

But my feelings on guns is

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

:lol:

C'mon

But my feelings on guns is

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

:lol:

C'mon

C'mon

What? If I need a cop he is well over an hour away.

So would you suggest I ask a intruder to wait?

You take care of yours & I will take care of mine ok?

I should add that my reply was to the claims being made against guns & crimes.

There are more important reasons our Constitution has the 2nd amendment

I learned how to shoot trap and skeet before I was 10 years old. I shot my first deer at 13 with a Winchester 30/30.

In the Army I was a big fan of “Recon by fire” or calling Puff. Puff was something to see. Puff would put a bullet in every square foot of a football sized area in about 5 seconds or something like that (3 miniguns in a C-47). And since they flew low and slow they rarely had friendly fire accidents. I carried a variety of weapons.

My home has been robbed twice. The first time I stabbed the assailant with a ski pole, nothing stolen (Denver). The second time I woke up as they were leaving with my TV and guitar and a bunch of other stuff (Spokane WA). I fired four shots with a .44 cal, black powder pistol but don’t know if I hit the car because of all the black smoke. Never got anything back but the insurance paid for everything.

I have been robbed twice while working. Once in a restaurant (Detroit) when I went back to college after the army. It was a bad time to rob me since I had been in Vietnam for two years. The robber was in the hospital for six weeks.

The second time was also in college at a gas station (Detroit). While I was in the station getting the money out of the cash register the other attendant set fire to the assailants car’s gas tank. The assailant drove away not knowing his car was on fire. He blew up at the first red light. Luckily no one was hurt. The police came.

In my own restaurants I carried a sidearm when making bank deposits. I had a license and the sidearm was in a holster visible to all. Ruger 44 magnum revolver. I didn’t do this out of bravado. At steak house next door to my place a robber shot and killed the manager while going to make a bank deposit in the daytime (Denver).

I owned another restaurant close to the ship channel in Houston where I wore a Kevlar vest and carried a 12 gauge shotgun when I made bank deposits. My black managers thought I was being silly and they went to the bank unarmed. I later sold the restaurant and one of the managers got shot and then they carried shotguns too.

At home in the states I kept black powder weapons, sawed off 16 gauge double barreled shotgun with a pistol grip and a hand and a half claymore sword under my bed. The logic being that if a robber saw a naked man coming at him with a claymore sword he would leave and the claymore was too heavy for my wife to carry and catch me when I was running.

I have been shot at and have shot people. I have never threatened anyone with a gun. When I pulled out a gun it was to shoot someone or something.

I have always advised my employees if robbed to give the robber the money and no heroics. Me, on the other hand, I’d shoot the MF. You can mess with my dog or mess with my wife but don’t you try and mess with my cash.

I learned how to shoot trap and skeet before I was 10 years old. I shot my first deer at 13 with a Winchester 30/30.

In the Army I was a big fan of "Recon by fire" or calling Puff. Puff was something to see. Puff would put a bullet in every square foot of a football sized area in about 5 seconds or something like that (3 miniguns in a C-47). And since they flew low and slow they rarely had friendly fire accidents. I carried a variety of weapons.

My home has been robbed twice. The first time I stabbed the assailant with a ski pole, nothing stolen (Denver). The second time I woke up as they were leaving with my TV and guitar and a bunch of other stuff (Spokane WA). I fired four shots with a .44 cal, black powder pistol but don't know if I hit the car because of all the black smoke. Never got anything back but the insurance paid for everything.

I have been robbed twice while working. Once in a restaurant (Detroit) when I went back to college after the army. It was a bad time to rob me since I had been in Vietnam for two years. The robber was in the hospital for six weeks.

The second time was also in college at a gas station (Detroit). While I was in the station getting the money out of the cash register the other attendant set fire to the assailants car's gas tank. The assailant drove away not knowing his car was on fire. He blew up at the first red light. Luckily no one was hurt. The police came.

In my own restaurants I carried a sidearm when making bank deposits. I had a license and the sidearm was in a holster visible to all. Ruger 44 magnum revolver. I didn't do this out of bravado. At steak house next door to my place a robber shot and killed the manager while going to make a bank deposit in the daytime (Denver).

I owned another restaurant close to the ship channel in Houston where I wore a Kevlar vest and carried a 12 gauge shotgun when I made bank deposits. My black managers thought I was being silly and they went to the bank unarmed. I later sold the restaurant and one of the managers got shot and then they carried shotguns too.

At home in the states I kept black powder weapons, sawed off 16 gauge double barreled shotgun with a pistol grip and a hand and a half claymore sword under my bed. The logic being that if a robber saw a naked man coming at him with a claymore sword he would leave and the claymore was too heavy for my wife to carry and catch me when I was running.

I have been shot at and have shot people. I have never threatened anyone with a gun. When I pulled out a gun it was to shoot someone or something.

I have always advised my employees if robbed to give the robber the money and no heroics. Me, on the other hand, I'd shoot the MF. You can mess with my dog or mess with my wife but don't you try and mess with my cash.

:lol:

 sort your selves out and learn to behve like decent people 

That is rich coming from an Ozzie/Brit. You lot have plenty to answer for. 

Just the thought of armed americans be they soldiers or civilians scares the crap out of me ,as ayoungster in late 40,s northern england,comforting a school friend whose father had just been accidently shot by a US airman on perimeter guard , when he was cycling home from nightshift, seems the airman felt threatened, mind you there was a 12 foot fence and the leeds-liverpool canal separating them, probably thought the worker was going to attack him with his flatcap correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the war over in 49

Was Derrick Bird American? 

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=153633501

Martin Bryant wasn't American either.

War is a shitty thing. Before after and during. A general I worked for insisted I pick him up in Saigon after a drunken weekend. It was during the Tet holidays the year after the Tet offensive. Saigon was locked down except for the Vietnamese people who were yahooing it up like they were Thai’s. Firecrackers, booze - New Years mayhem.

I asked the general politely if he could wait till the next morning when the festivities were over but he insisted he needed to get back to the base that night.

I am not a Rambo type. I was afraid of driving in Saigon during Tet.

However, he was insistent. I got a two and a half ton truck, they wouldn’t give me a tank, and a pump shotgun. I kept the shotgun on the seat next to me as a careened around the narrow streets in the Vietnamese capital. I was alone in the truck, no one else was dumb enough to go with me, although I asked everyone I knew to accompany me. Out of the corner of my eye I saw an arm move in a throwing motion. I thought for sure it was a grenade. I heard something hit in the back of the truck and I leveled the shotgun at the place I saw motion come from.

It all happened in seconds.

I was afraid. I didn’t know what was happening. I was alone. Only me and the shotgun.

For some reason I hesitated. Unusual for me. Long years of hunting made me unafraid to shoot when there was a shot to be made.

My eyes focused on my target. He was only feet away. I could see him clearly. He was about 10 years old. He had thrown an empty coke can in the back of my truck. He was laughing.

I kept driving, not shooting.

Assuming he made it through the war he would be about 50 now. A family, business, who knows. I wonder if he knew how close he came to non existence.

We were both lucky. He is alive and I don’t have nightmares about shooting a kid.

War is like that, bad business all round for all concerned, not just Americans.

sort your selves out and learn to behve like decent people

That is rich coming from an Ozzie/Brit. You lot have plenty to answer for.

Just the thought of armed americans be they soldiers or civilians scares the crap out of me ,as ayoungster in late 40,s northern england,comforting a school friend whose father had just been accidently shot by a US airman on perimeter guard , when he was cycling home from nightshift, seems the airman felt threatened, mind you there was a 12 foot fence and the leeds-liverpool canal separating them, probably thought the worker was going to attack him with his flatcap correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the war over in 49

"Honest, I was just walking home from church, minding my own business..."

Excellent post about the fog of war.

War is a shitty thing. Before after and during. A general I worked for insisted I pick him up in Saigon after a drunken weekend. It was during the Tet holidays the year after the Tet offensive. Saigon was locked down except for the Vietnamese people who were yahooing it up like they were Thai’s. Firecrackers, booze - New Years mayhem.

I asked the general politely if he could wait till the next morning when the festivities were over but he insisted he needed to get back to the base that night.

I am not a Rambo type. I was afraid of driving in Saigon during Tet.

However, he was insistent. I got a two and a half ton truck, they wouldn’t give me a tank, and a pump shotgun. I kept the shotgun on the seat next to me as a careened around the narrow streets in the Vietnamese capital. I was alone in the truck, no one else was dumb enough to go with me, although I asked everyone I knew to accompany me. Out of the corner of my eye I saw an arm move in a throwing motion. I thought for sure it was a grenade. I heard something hit in the back of the truck and I leveled the shotgun at the place I saw motion come from.

It all happened in seconds.

I was afraid. I didn’t know what was happening. I was alone. Only me and the shotgun.

For some reason I hesitated. Unusual for me. Long years of hunting made me unafraid to shoot when there was a shot to be made.

My eyes focused on my target. He was only feet away. I could see him clearly. He was about 10 years old. He had thrown an empty coke can in the back of my truck. He was laughing.

I kept driving, not shooting.

Assuming he made it through the war he would be about 50 now. A family, business, who knows. I wonder if he knew how close he came to non existence.

We were both lucky. He is alive and I don’t have nightmares about shooting a kid.

War is like that, bad business all round for all concerned, not just Americans.

Sounds just a bit like driving round Salford after dark :jap:

Of course, the importance of firearms can be overrated.

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.

...and a quote from a very famous adversary of the US:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

(Japanese Navy)