Former president George W Bush's advisers focused on toppling Saddam Hussein's regime as soon as he took office and discussed how to justify a war in Iraq shortly after invading Afghanistan in 2001, official documents showed on Wednesday.

A few hours after the September 11 attacks in 2001, then defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of attacking Iraq as well as Osama bin Laden, according to notes of a meeting on that day, newly declassified papers show.

Rumsfeld told a Pentagon lawyer to go to his deputy to get "support" showing a supposed link between the Iraqi regime and al-Qaeda's founder, according to the papers posted by the Washington-based National Security Archive, an independent research institute.

The US government has since acknowledged that Saddam's regime had no role in the September attacks.

In June and July of 2001, senior administration officials seized on intercepted aluminum tubes as proof that Iraq was pursuing nuclear weapons, even before a preliminary assessment of the tubes, according to two State Department memos to then secretary of state Colin Powell.

One memo states the US government's interest in "publicising the interdiction to our advantage" and "getting the right story out" about the tubes, which were soon found to have no nuclear connection.

Confronting Iraq was also the focus of a July 2001 memo to the national security adviser at the time, Condoleezza Rice, with Rumsfeld urging a high-level meeting on policy towards Baghdad.

Voicing concern that sanctions were proving a failure and that Iraq's air defences were improving, Rumsfeld warned: "Within a few years the US will undoubtedly have to confront a Saddam armed with nuclear weapons."

Forecasting an optimistic outcome far from the result the Iraq war produced, Rumsfeld said that Washington's image in the region and the world would benefit from toppling Saddam.

"If Saddam's regime were ousted, we would have a much-improved position in the region and elsewhere," he wrote. "A major success in Iraq would enhance US credibility and influence throughout the region."

Another document shows Rumsfeld discussing war plans for Iraq just two months after the 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan.

In a meeting with the then head of US Central Command, General Tommy Franks, the defence chief tells him to ready forces for the "decapitation" of the Iraqi regime.

In talking points dated November 27, Rumsfeld lists possible triggers the Bush administration could use to start a war, including Iraqi military action against the US-protected enclave in northern Iraq, discovery of ties between Saddam and September or recent anthrax attacks and disputes with UN weapons inspections.

In a December 18, 2001 memo, the State Department's analytical unit warns that France and Germany will likely oppose an invasion of Iraq without concrete proof that Baghdad was behind the September 11 attacks.

The same memo warns that British support for a US war would come at a political cost for the prime minister, Tony Blair, and could trigger a backlash from the country's Muslim population.

Backing the US war "could bring a radicalisation of British Muslims, the great majority of whom opposed the September 11 attacks but are increasingly restive about what they see as an anti-Islamic campaign," the memo states.

The documents posted on Wednesday were released under a Freedom of Information request.

My link

no great surprise really

Voicing concern that sanctions were proving a failure and that Iraq's air defences were improving, Rumsfeld warned: "Within a few years the US will undoubtedly have to confront a Saddam armed with nuclear weapons."

He was probably correct.

Voicing concern that sanctions were proving a failure and that Iraq's air defences were improving, Rumsfeld warned: "Within a few years the US will undoubtedly have to confront a Saddam armed with nuclear weapons."

He was probably correct.

If anyone looks back at the news from 2001-2002 the support was building in the UN for ending the sanctions against Iraq, removing inspectors and the no-fly zones. It has since come out that these countries were involved in the Oil For Food Scandal and were being bribed by Saddam. Anyone here seriously think Saddam would have changed into a nice guy after those sanctions, etc were ended?

Bush also didn't need to "go looking for reasons" to attack Iraq. He used pretty much the same ones that had been available for almost 10 years prior to taking office.

The article states:

Rumsfeld told a Pentagon lawyer to go to his deputy to get "support" showing a supposed link between the Iraqi regime and al-Qaeda's founder, according to the papers posted by the Washington-based National Security Archive, an independent research institute.

The US government has since acknowledged that Saddam's regime had no role in the September attacks.

This is misleading. First of all, any link between Saddam and Osama is not proof that Saddam had a role in the 9/11 attacks. That's just plain faulty logic. In addition, the Bush Admin never claimed that Saddam was behind 9/11. I never heard it and of all the years debating on forums like this no one has ever posted a link showing where they have. Maybe this time will be differerent? Naw. Some will just say, "Oh, well, Bush IMPLIED it!" which is just a lazy way to avoid admitting there is no proof.

Let's see if we can keep this thread civil.

This is misleading. First of all, any link between Saddam and Osama is not proof that Saddam had a role in the 9/11 attacks. That's just plain faulty logic. In addition, the Bush Admin never claimed that Saddam was behind 9/11. I never heard it and of all the years debating on forums like this no one has ever posted a link showing where they have. Maybe this time will be differerent? Naw. Some will just say, "Oh, well, Bush IMPLIED it!" which is just a lazy way to avoid admitting there is no proof.

Let's see if we can keep this thread civil.

Bush was the misleader, if there was any misleading going on

from an article 2003

In his prime-time press conference last week, which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11.

Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks.

Sources knowledgeable about US intelligence say there is no evidence that Hussein played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks, nor that he has been or is currently aiding Al Qaeda. Yet the White House appears to be encouraging this false impression, as it seeks to maintain American support for a possible war against Iraq and demonstrate seriousness of purpose to Hussein's regime.

"The administration has succeeded in creating a sense that there is some connection [between Sept. 11 and Saddam Hussein]," says Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.

The numbersPolling data show that right after Sept. 11, 2001, when Americans were asked open-ended questions about who was behind the attacks, only 3 percent mentioned Iraq or Hussein. But by January of this year, attitudes had been transformed. In a Knight Ridder poll, 44 percent of Americans reported that either "most" or "some" of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi citizens. The answer is zero.

Bush was the misleader, if there was any misleading going on

from an article 2003

In his prime-time press conference last week, which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11.

Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks.

Sources knowledgeable about US intelligence say there is no evidence that Hussein played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks, nor that he has been or is currently aiding Al Qaeda. Yet the White House appears to be encouraging this false impression, as it seeks to maintain American support for a possible war against Iraq and demonstrate seriousness of purpose to Hussein's regime.

"The administration has succeeded in creating a sense that there is some connection [between Sept. 11 and Saddam Hussein]," says Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.

The numbersPolling data show that right after Sept. 11, 2001, when Americans were asked open-ended questions about who was behind the attacks, only 3 percent mentioned Iraq or Hussein. But by January of this year, attitudes had been transformed. In a Knight Ridder poll, 44 percent of Americans reported that either "most" or "some" of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi citizens. The answer is zero.

So I nailed it perfectly. Nothing but "implied" and "appears to be". Do you think you can find a link saying that the Bush Admin claimed that Saddam had WMDs? Of course you can.Why? Because they actually said it (along with just about everyone else it just so happens).

I love the posting of those poll results. More faulty logic. Polls showing how clueless people are isn't indicitive of where they got their misinformation. I wonder what the poll results would be of the % of Americans who think Canada is a US State? Or even France for that matter.

So I nailed it perfectly. Nothing but "implied" and "appears to be". Do you think you can find a link saying that the Bush Admin claimed that Saddam had WMDs? Of course you can.Why? Because they actually said it (along with just about everyone else it just so happens).

I love the posting of those poll results. More faulty logic. Polls showing how clueless people are isn't indicitive of where they got their misinformation. I wonder what the poll results would be of the % of Americans who think Canada is a US State? Or even France for that matter.

You're absolutely right. Nothing but "implied" and "appears to be". America is proud of it's democracy. The people's opinion is important. As a leader, to get "the people" to support your agenda, you need to have them believe in it somehow. Purposely getting the people to believe in false beliefs is tantamount to an outright lie because it is just as misleading and just as premeditated.

So what that Bush never said anything outright. That's not an indication of his innocence at all. That's just typical political arse-covering....get them thinking in a certain way but not be accountable.

Of course the population has gullible and ignorant people....to take advantage of that ignorance and gullibility is despicable. To stir up patriotic fervour with the intent to wage war, to knowingly send thousands of young men and women to their deaths, based on a series of premeditated deciets is criminal.

The population also has plenty of gullible and ignorant people who think that they are well informed, but are just brainwashed and delusional. They are even more dangerous than average people who just go along with the status quo.

The population also has plenty of gullible and ignorant people who think that they are well informed, but are just brainwashed and delusional. They are even more dangerous than average people who just go along with the status quo.

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo is based on a bunch of lies, as is being shown in this thread.

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo means that thousands of innocent people, both in the invaded country and in the military of the invaders, are dying daily to maintain that status quo.

Citizens who make flimsy excuses for terrorist groups such as Hamas, Al Queda and Hezbollah and rogue nations such as Iran are more dangerous than John Q, Public will ever be. Appeasement never works.

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo is based on a bunch of lies, as is being shown in this thread.

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo means that thousands of innocent people, both in the invaded country and in the military of the invaders, are dying daily to maintain that status quo.

"THOUSANDS of innocent people...are dying DAILY to maintain that status quo" (Caps added)

I presume you are using this statement as an example of how mis-leading of the populace is done?

Or perhaps you have a link to support your statement that THOUSANDS are dying DAILY?

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo is based on a bunch of lies, as is being shown in this thread.

Hardly "more dangerous" when the status quo means that thousands of innocent people, both in the invaded country and in the military of the invaders, are dying daily to maintain that status quo.

"THOUSANDS of innocent people...are dying DAILY to maintain that status quo" (Caps added)

I presume you are using this statement as an example of how mis-leading of the populace is done?

Or perhaps you have a link to support your statement that THOUSANDS are dying DAILY?

Fair call. I should not have said "daily".

People are dying, both invaded civilians, and invaders, almost daily, and the death toll is many thousands to date.

The point remains the same.

Saddam did have WMDs and he used them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

The only plausible reason for some to remain obsessed with Bush is in an attempt to detract from the Obama administration's caustic performance. Obama consistently blames everything on Bush, and so does his myopic supporters, whose numbers are diminishing daily.

Saddam did have WMDs and he used them: http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

The only plausible reason for some to remain obsessed with Bush is in an attempt to detract from the Obama administration's caustic performance. Obama consistently blames everything on Bush, and so does his myopic supporters, whose numbers are diminishing daily.

Indeed!

Saddam did have WMDs and he used them: http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

The only plausible reason for some to remain obsessed with Bush is in an attempt to detract from the Obama administration's caustic performance. Obama consistently blames everything on Bush, and so does his myopic supporters, whose numbers are diminishing daily.

The ONLY plausible reason? I beg to differ, whilst also not conceding anybody is "obsessed".

Bush has proved himself to be somewhat considerably less than a genius. His policies have resulted in thousands of innocent American (not to mention Nato, Afghan, and Iraqi) deaths....all in the name of HIS "war on terror", which was an ill-concieved program to begin with.

Saddam did have WMDs and he used them: http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

The only plausible reason for some to remain obsessed with Bush is in an attempt to detract from the Obama administration's caustic performance. Obama consistently blames everything on Bush, and so does his myopic supporters, whose numbers are diminishing daily.

The ONLY plausible reason? I beg to differ, whilst also not conceding anybody is "obsessed".

Bush has proved himself to be somewhat considerably less than a genius. His policies have resulted in thousands of innocent American (not to mention Nato, Afghan, and Iraqi) deaths....all in the name of HIS "war on terror", which was an ill-concieved program to begin with.

ob·ses·sion   

[uhb-sesh-uhn]

–noun

1. the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.

2. the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.

Bush has been out of office for quite some time now. When are you ever going to get over it? Perhaps by the end of the Obama administration?

Regarding Bush's policies, many thousands of lives were saved by virtue of the defenses he put in place thereby thwarting terrorist attacks. The liberals always seem to overlook this fact.

In any event, your man Obama won the election. He has been in control for quite some time now. STOP obsessing about Bush and start wondering how America will ever recover from the current administration which so far has America in debt to the tune of 13 trillion. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/2/federal-debt-tops-13-trillion-mark/

Citizens who make flimsy excuses for terrorist groups such as Hamas, Al Queda and Hezbollah and rogue nations such as Iran are more dangerous than John Q, Public will ever be. Appeasement never works.

You forgot to add Israel to that list UG

Only a loon would do that.

Saddam did have WMDs and he used them: http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

The only plausible reason for some to remain obsessed with Bush is in an attempt to detract from the Obama administration's caustic performance. Obama consistently blames everything on Bush, and so does his myopic supporters, whose numbers are diminishing daily.

The ONLY plausible reason? I beg to differ, whilst also not conceding anybody is "obsessed".

Bush has proved himself to be somewhat considerably less than a genius. His policies have resulted in thousands of innocent American (not to mention Nato, Afghan, and Iraqi) deaths....all in the name of HIS "war on terror", which was an ill-concieved program to begin with.

ob·ses·sion   

[uhb-sesh-uhn]

–noun

1. the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.

2. the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.

Bush has been out of office for quite some time now. When are you ever going to get over it? Perhaps by the end of the Obama administration?

Regarding Bush's policies, many thousands of lives were saved by virtue of the defenses he put in place thereby thwarting terrorist attacks. The liberals always seem to overlook this fact.

In any event, your man Obama won the election. He has been in control for quite some time now. STOP obsessing about Bush and start wondering how America will ever recover from the current administration which so far has America in debt to the tune of 13 trillion. http://www.washingto...-trillion-mark/

Perhaps we'll get over "obsessing" about Bush once the calamitous effects of his blunders have diminished.

His actions have affected most of the world in a negative way.

Please elaborate on the "defenses he put in place thereby thwarting terrorist attacks." and the "many thousands of lives" that "were saved by virtue of" those "defenses".

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

So in your world Mr. HC, Israel would 'head' the list that includes North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Burma, etc.? Interesting. I can hardly wait for you to enlighten us with more of your pearls of wisdom.

NEWSMAKER INTERVIEW:

PALO ALTO, Calif.

Former Secretary of State George P. Shultz says President-elect Barack Obama should practice President Bush's doctrine of pre-emptive defense against terrorism that has kept the country safe since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mr. Shultz credited Mr. Bush with pushing "a controversial but important idea" he said has made the U.S. a harder target when other nations were being hit by terrorists.

"That is, that in this age where there are people who want to do damage to us through terrorist tactics, you want to be aggressive in trying to find out what might happen before it happens, and then stop it from happening; that is, take preventive action," he said in an interview with The Washington Times in his office at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.

"And that's an uncomfortable idea for people, particularly when the act of prevention takes place in some other country. Even if it takes place in this country, it has its problems," said Mr. Shultz, President Reagan's secretary of state during a turbulent period of the Cold War that ended with an arms-control agreement between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

Mr. Bush's pre-emptive actions, including going to war to topple terrorist regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq, were also based in large part on electronic eavesdropping here and abroad on telephone and other electronic communications, sometimes without a federal court order, which drew strong opposition from civil liberties groups and his critics on Capitol Hill and elsewhere.

Democrats, including Mr. Obama, were sharply critical of the administration's sweeping global surveillance methods to tap into conversations with terrorist contacts in the U.S., sparking a congressional fight that delayed the program's reauthorization until a compromise was passed earlier this year that gave Mr. Bush most of what he sought, including legal immunity from lawsuits for communication companies who cooperate with the government.

Mr. Obama has quipped that the Obama Doctrine is not going to be as "doctrinaire as the Bush Doctrine, because the world is complicated."

"But I think that the basic concept - and I´ve heard it from some of the other folks - is that, increasingly, we have to view our security in terms of a common security and a common prosperity with other peoples and other countries," Mr. Obama said during a National Public Radio debate in Iowa last winter.

"And that means that if there are children in the Middle East who cannot read, that is a potential long-term danger to us. If China is polluting, then eventually that is going to reach our shores. We have to - and work with them cooperatively to solve their problems, as well as ours."

But Mr. Shultz said the country will be decidedly less safe if the new administration chooses a different approach.

"I think that's an important idea, that if ignored will cause us harm. It's something we have to stick with," said Mr. Shultz, who advised Mr. Bush during his 2000 presidential bid and has long-time relationships with some of the president´s closest advisers.

Mr. Obama had been a staunch opponent of renewing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, but in a series of flip-flops after he had clinched the Democratic nomination, said he supported the bill.

"The ability to monitor and track individuals who want to attack the United States is a vital counterterrorism tool, and I'm persuaded that it is necessary to keep the American people safe," he said at the time.

In the wide-ranging interview, Mr. Shultz also said setting a troop-withdrawal date in Iraq is dangerous, and that North Korea's refusal to let international inspectors conduct tests for nuclear materials is part of a pattern.

"They are endless bargainers. There is no such thing as a firm agreement with them. You make an agreement, you make a compromise and then they immediately break it in some fashion," Mr. Shultz said.

He also said arguments over missile defense have been going on with Russia for 40 years and that Mr. Obama should engage its leaders.

It would be better if the Obama administration pursued "a constructive strategic dialogue with them."

"After all, we did that in the Cold War. We can do it now," he said.

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

So in your world Mr. HC, Israel would 'head' the list that includes North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Burma, etc.? Interesting. I can hardly wait for you to enlighten us with more of your pearls of wisdom.

I would have to say with the exception of a couple on your list Israel is way worse than most you have listed and they have commited atrocities in line or worse than those on your list but since they are backed by the most poweful nation on earth they are not held accountable for there actions unlike those on your list.

Long list of terror attacks thwarted by Bush admin since 9/11.

Posted on January 17, 2009

There has not been another attack on this country since 9/11 – and do not think this was due to a lack of effort on the part of the terrorists. In fact there have been many attempts.

· December 2001, the first post – 9/11 plot was thwarted

· Captured an al Qaeda operative named Ali Salih al-Mari in the United States who we believe was targeting water reservoirs, the New York Stock Exchange, and United States military academies.

· Al-Mari offered himself as a martyr to Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (the mastermind of 9/11) who sent him to the U.S. after he received training in poisons at an al Qaeda camp.

· May 2002, Jose Padilla ‘Dirty Bomb’ Plot

· American citizen accused of seeking radioactive-laced “dirty bomb” to use in an attack against America.

· Padilla was convicted of conspiracy in August, 2007

· 2002 Aviation Plots

· Al Qaeda leader in Southeast Asia known as Hambali recruited Jemaah Islamiyah of Asian origin (less conspicuous)

· Plot derailed in early 2002 with international cooperation.

· Library tower is the tallest building west of the Mississippi (1,018’)

· Among the 25 tallest buildings in the world.

· September 2002, Lackawanna Six

· FBI Thwarted the locally recruited terrorist cell the “Lackawanna 6” by the capture of Juma al-Dosari in Afghanistan and subsequent interrogation while imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

· Six American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda after attending jihadist camp in Pakistan.

· Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.

· Summer/Fall 2001: FBI agents in New York receive anonymous tips from Yemeni-American community in New York that a local group of men is conspiring and training with Al Qaeda to commit acts of terrorism against the U.S.

· Several implicated men are put on the FBI terrorist watch list and detained upon return from Pakistan.

· Al Dosari is captured in Afghanistan in November 2001 and subsequently reveals the greater plot in New York to recruit.

· “Lackawanna 6” were arrested and convicted of supporting Al Qaeda and plotting terrorist acts.

· May 2003, Brooklyn Bridge Plot

· American citizen Iyman Faris was charged with plotting to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge.

· After being introduced to Al Qaeda operatives, NY & federal authorities intercepted a plan to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge by cutting suspension cables as well as potentially derailing a train en route to Washington, D.C.

· Faris was arrested by the FBI after they intercepted a phone call to Al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan

· Faris was offered and accepted a deal to work as a double-agent for the U.S., helping the FBI with their anti-terrorist intelligence collection.

· June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network

· 11 men from Alexandria, VA, trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.

· 11 Muslim men were charged in U.S. District Court in Alexandria with training with and fighting for Lashkar-i-Taiba (a group fighting the Indian government that the U.S. government considers a terrorist organization.

· Several members of the group were found to have trained for future attacks by using paintball facilities in the Northern Virginia area.

· August 2004, Financial Centers Plot

· Dhiren Barot Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers.

· Barot plotted a “memorable black day of terror” via a dirty bomb that targeted financial institutions in NY, D.C. and Newark.

· Barot was arrested at his home in Pakistan with the cooperation and help of U.S. and U.K. anti-terror authorities.

August 2004, Penn Station Plot

· James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj sought to plant a bomb at New York’s Penn Station near Madison Square Garden during the Republican National Convention.

· The New York City Police Departments Intelligence Division helped to conduct an investigation leading to the arrests.

· An undercover agent infiltrated the group, provided information to authorities, and later testi fied against Elshafay and Siraj.

· August 2004, Pakistani Diplomat Assasination Plot

· Two leaders of an Albany, New York, mosque Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain, were charged with plotting to purchase a shoulder-fired grenade launcher to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat.

· An investigation by the FBI, the Trea sury Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, and the local police contributed to the arrest.

· With the help of an informant, the FBI was able to set up a sting that lured Mohammed Hos sain into a fake terrorist conspiracy. Hossain brought Yassin Araf, a Kurdish refugee, as a wit ness. The informant offered details of a fake terror ist plot, claiming that he needed the missiles to murder a Pakistani diplomat in New York City. Both agreed to help.

· June 2005, Father and son Terror Camp Plot

· In California, Pakistani immigrants Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat, father and son, were arrested in June 2005 after allegedly lying to the FBI about the son’s attendance at an Islamic terrorist training camp in Pakistan.

· Umer and Hamid Hayat were charged with attending terrorist camp training in Pakistan and later found guilty of sup porting terrorism and customs violations.

· The son, Hamid Hayat, was sentenced to 24 years for supporting terrorism while the father, Umer Hayat, was convicted of customs violations including an attempt to carry $28,000 into Pakistan.

· August 2005, Orange County, California, Terror Plot

· In August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana were arrested in Los Angeles, California, and charged with conspiring to attack Los Angeles National Guard facilities, syna gogues, and other targets in the Orange County area.

· Kevin James allegedly founded a radical Islamic prison group and converted Levar Wash ington and others to the group, which was known as J.I.S., short for Jamiyyat Ul-Islam Is-Saheeh

· The J.I.S. allegedly planned to finance their operations by robbing gas stations.

· After Washington and Patter son were arrested for robberies, police and federal agents began a terrorist investigation when a search of Washington’s apartment revealed a suspicious target list.

· December 2005, Gas Lines Plot

· Michael C. Reynolds was arrested by the FBI in December 2005 and charged with being involved in a plot to blow up a Wyoming natural gas refinery; the Transcontinental Pipeline, a natural-gas pipeline stretching from the Gulf Coast to New York and New Jersey; and a New Jersey Standard Oil refinery.

· He was arrested trying to pick up the $40,000 owed him for planning the attack.

· His purported contact, Shan nen Rossmiller, was a Montana judge who was working with the FBI.

· The FBI later found explo sives in a locker in his home town, Wilkes-Barre, PA.

· Reynolds claimed that he was working as a private citizen to find terrorists.

· Reynolds was convicted of providing material support to terrorists, soliciting a crime of violence, unlawful distribution of explosives, and unlawful possession of a hand grenade and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

· February 2006, Iraq Bomb Building Plot

· In Toledo, Ohio, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Mar wan Othman El-Hindi, and Wassim Mazloum were arrested in February 2006 for “conspiring to kill or injure people in the Middle East” and providing material support to terrorist organizations.

· They allegedly intended to build bombs to be used in Iraq.

· The investigation was begun through the help of an informant who was approached to help train the group.

· April 2006, U.S. Capitol & World Bank Plot

· Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee from Atlanta, Georgia, were accused of conspiracy, having discussed terrorist targets with alleged ter rorist organizations.

· They allegedly met with Islamic extremists and received training and in struction in how to gather videotape surveillance of potential targets in Washington area.

· They videotaped places such as the U.S. Capitol and the World Bank headquarters as potential targets and sent the videos to a London extremist group.

· They were indicted for providing material support to terrorist organizations and have pled not guilty.

· June 2006, Sears Tower Plot

· Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor , Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine were arrested in Miami and Atlanta in June 2006 for allegedly being in the early stages of a plot to blow up the Sears Tower in Chicago, as well as the FBI offices and other buildings.

· The arrests resulted from an investigation involving an FBI informant. It is alleged that Narsearl Batiste was the leader of the group and first suggested attacking the Sears Tower in December 2005.

· July 2006, New York City Train Tunell Plot

· Eight suspects, including Assem Hammoud, an al-Qaeda loyalist living in Lebanon, were arrested for plotting to bomb New York City train tunnels.

· Conducting on-line surveillance of chat rooms, the FBI discovered a plot to attack underground transit links with New Jersey.

· Ham moud was a self-proclaimed operative for al-Qaeda and admitted to the plot. He is currently in cus tody in Lebanon, and his case is pending. Two other suspects are in custody in other locations, and investigators continue to hunt down the other five suspects.

· August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot

· Planned to blow up as many as 12 U.S.-bound passenger jets using liquid explosives hidden in carryon luggage.

· U.S./British authorities had the group under surveillance for many months.

· Many of the suspects were British citizens of Pakistani origin.

· March 2007, Skyscraper Plot

· Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

· Mohammed also plotted to assassinate Pope John Paul II and former President Bill Clinton.

· May 2007, Fort Dix Plot

· Result of a 16 month investigation by Justice Dept and FBI .

· Tipped off by an alert citizen (a video processing worker) .

· Suspects had taken an incriminating video to the store to be transferred to DVD.

· Video showed calls for jihad and radical and violent ranting in Arabic, included images of the men firing assault weapons.

· “The Ft. Dix Six” thought to be a leaderless, homegrown cell of immigrants from Jordan, Turkey and Yugoslavia (not believed to be tied to Al Qaeda).

· All six suspects were convicted in December 2008.

· June 2007, JFK Plot

· Suspects planned to hit fuel farms and a 40-mile aviation fuel supply pipeline.

· Specifically, they targeted the symbolism of JFK, seeking to invoke an emotional reaction saying “It’s like killing the man twice.”

· Suspects were tied to extremists groups in South America and Caribbean, specifically Guyana and Trinidad .

· One suspect was a former airport cargo worker.

· September 2007, Americans Terrorists in Germany

· German authorities disrupted a terrorist cell that was planning attacks on military installations and facilities used by Americans in Germany.

· The Germans arrested three suspected members of the Islamic Jihad Union, a group that has links to Al Qaeda and supports Al Qaeda’s global jihadist agenda.

· 29 Jun 2007, London’s West End Car Bombs

· Heightened public awareness and quick police action prevented detonations of two Mercedes car bombs in two separate locations.

· One in the Theater District and one outside a popular nightclub with up to two thousand people in vicinity.

· Vehicles were loaded with gallons of gasoline and canisters of propane surrounded by boxes of nails for added lethality.

· Eight suspects were detained, six of whom were doctors or training to be doctors, two of them expressed interest in training in the U.S.

· Suspects included an Iraqi doctor (Bilal Abdullah) and a husband, wife and three family members of the same Indian Muslim family.

The bottom line is, because of President Bush there has not been another successful attack on this country since 9/11. What this administration has accomplished in the last 5 years is phenomenal.

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/long-list-of-terror-thwarted-by-bush/

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

So in your world Mr. HC, Israel would 'head' the list that includes North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Burma, etc.? Interesting. I can hardly wait for you to enlighten us with more of your pearls of wisdom.

I would have to say with the exception of a couple on your list Israel is way worse than most you have listed and they have commited atrocities in line or worse than those on your list but since they are backed by the most poweful nation on earth they are not held accountable for there actions unlike those on your list.

Curious. Which 'couple' do you believe are worse than Israel, and why?

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

Mr. Harcourt:

If I ever agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

So in your world Mr. HC, Israel would 'head' the list that includes North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Burma, etc.? Interesting. I can hardly wait for you to enlighten us with more of your pearls of wisdom.

when was the last time that Iran, Cuba or Burma started a war, bombed and invaded another country?

Only a loon would do that.

Sounds like you're calling FC a loon.....

I thought name calling was especially frowned upon in OTB these days?

Israel should definitely be put on the list "rogue nations"....perhaps even head it.

So in your world Mr. HC, Israel would 'head' the list that includes North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Burma, etc.? Interesting. I can hardly wait for you to enlighten us with more of your pearls of wisdom.

when was the last time that Iran, Cuba or Burma started a war, bombed and invaded another country?

Given that criteria, Germany should top the list, correct Herr Naam?

when was the last time that Iran, Cuba or Burma started a war, bombed and invaded another country?

I suspect Myanmar is not the best example of a peaceful non-combative state that doesn't wage war.

Citizens who make flimsy excuses for terrorist groups such as Hamas, Al Queda and Hezbollah and rogue nations such as Iran are more dangerous than John Q, Public will ever be. Appeasement never works.

Tell that to all those Bostonians who contributed to Noraid.

So I nailed it perfectly. Nothing but "implied" and "appears to be". Do you think you can find a link saying that the Bush Admin claimed that Saddam had WMDs? Of course you can.Why? Because they actually said it (along with just about everyone else it just so happens).

I love the posting of those poll results. More faulty logic. Polls showing how clueless people are isn't indicitive of where they got their misinformation. I wonder what the poll results would be of the % of Americans who think Canada is a US State? Or even France for that matter.

You're absolutely right. Nothing but "implied" and "appears to be". America is proud of it's democracy. The people's opinion is important. As a leader, to get "the people" to support your agenda, you need to have them believe in it somehow. Purposely getting the people to believe in false beliefs is tantamount to an outright lie because it is just as misleading and just as premeditated.

So what that Bush never said anything outright.

In our country, the words of the president aren't the only information the people get. If Bush were so powerful, there would be no Democrats left in Congress. We have the opposition party - of course, almost 100% of the Dems went along with Bush because he was just telling them the same things that Clinton had been telling them for 8 years. Then we have the press - radio, TV, Internet, even a few newspapers. All of these sources provide info for the people to base their decisions on and they don't need to focus on some mythical "implied" remarks from one of the sources.