Pigs 101 (A Start)

[grimleybob]

We have a Thai supermarket in Khukhan, they stock casings in salt. From memory about 600 baht a kg.

If your can find such a general store near you, ask them if they have them.

When we kill a pig for our own consumption and for bacon and sausages, then obviously we use the casing for that pig. Usually it all gets packed off to our restaurant and small goods customers.

Re the boar, didn't bury him, burnt him instead.

It looks like you don't need that old Boar Tony

[IsaanAussie]

I have gone from three to one working boars at the farm. The younger Duroc was sold a day or so ago. The Landrace that died was a month older then the Duroc and to be honest neither was up to much.

[revar]

sold my last 11 finishers at an average weight of 107 kg. made a profit of 270 bath a pig (excl labor). prices are the lowest so far. farmprice =50 bath. village pigs 42-46. next batches should be ready in 2 months, prices should traditionally be up by then. learned a valluable lesson: Next year I need to plan better, making sure not to have finished pigs during pansa.

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[IsaanAussie]

Such is life. We live and occasionally we learn...

[chrisnouy]

IA

such is life indeed

I was wondering what you were going to do with your dead boar--huge beast to dispose of.

In the same vein during the last three weeks we've had one sow abort so she was shipped out .Another pregnant went in the back legs just like her mother and will have to be sold off. Then yesterday my best gilt had a run around with the immature boar walked back into her stall and dropped dead.

Some days are daimonds some days are stones!

Initially I was toying with whether to reduce our herd due to price hoicks but fate seems to have taken matters in hand-- seven sows and gilts have gone in two months for various reasons.

[IsaanAussie]

IA

such is life indeed

I was wondering what you were going to do with your dead boar--huge beast to dispose of.

In the same vein during the last three weeks we've had one sow abort so she was shipped out .Another pregnant went in the back legs just like her mother and will have to be sold off. Then yesterday my best gilt had a run around with the immature boar walked back into her stall and dropped dead.

Some days are daimonds some days are stones!

Initially I was toying with whether to reduce our herd due to price hoicks but fate seems to have taken matters in hand-- seven sows and gilts have gone in two months for various reasons.

We cremated him, it took three days and heaps of rubbish got cleaned up in the process. Thought about burial but when you think about a pig over 2 metres long, a metre high and half as wide, it is one hell of a hole. The shame of it was he was due to get slaughtered this week, I was just a bit late. You can imagine that topping a 350kg boar needs a few people around to help.

I have taken the opportunity the low market prices presented and cleared my entire breeding herd save one boar and one sow. I have new gilts ready to go in their stead. Cull stock will find a market at funerals around us and holds steady prices that arent much below the going rate for meat pigs.

[MrChangers]

Hi Pigsters,

This one is important. Most know that the under 500 pigs is a grey area in the regulations, however there are local regulations that you must be aware of. I have been bitten by these and will have to resite my pigs as a result.

In 1999 the Thai government devolved responsibility for Health Impact Assessment to subdistrict administration level, or Tambon. Each subdistrict has to issue local bylaws which are retrospective to activate their control. These bylaws reference the Thai Heath Act of 1992, which states that any business that has a "potential" impact on the community and environment must register and be approved in order to operate. Pigs and other animal raising is top of the list. At local level it is taken to mean that a potential threat can mean discord within the community.

I have been fighting a running battle for two and a half years with some jealous neighbours about smell. I have refused to pay them off and we have beaten that off but now the protests are we do not have this approval to operate. We approached the Tambon officials and were told they couldn't give it to us because there had been protests. The fact that the protests were dismissed made no difference, there has been discord and that was the decider.

In our case that bylaw had been passed in October of last year and we were not aware of it and have been operating illegally since then, and retrospectively since we started. The only way to get the permit was for us to get the signatures of all protestors on what the building was going to be used for and then apply. Obviously as their complaints are personal not factual there was no way the purpose of the building would include a large pig population. So we asked for the standard village number of 10, even that was refused, not one or we continue to protest was their response.

In my case we have negotiated the date when the pigs must be gone and got agreement that the building could be used for other purposes. So I now have to plan exactly what that will be and reapproach the Orbitor and get the necessary permits. Obviously the pigs situation will require further thought.

To everyone out there, if you havent got this permit to operate then get moving quickly before you have a complaint lodged against you. Local interpretations will differ, some may not have passed the bylaw yet, but be warned this is serious. The penalty for operating without the permit is 10,000 baht and or 6 months jail.

Are you at risk? Do you have more than 10 pigs or is the sty larger than a normal Thai house? if the answer is yes, then you are in the frame.

As a newbie to the piggy game this is of great interest as I have built stys of 3M x 3M in a row of 3 and will need to add a mirror image in the near future. Already had the village "Big Boss" appear and sniff the air and he went away happy, but this is Thailand ......

[MrChangers]

As stated in my reply to IA, I'm new to the game here in Thailand, well Surin province close to the Chong Chom border with Cambodia. I have been searching for auto feeders and before building one myself would appreciate any tips from people who have gone down this route already and bought.

We have 41 pigs that are on track for release end of December/January ..... I live in hope!

Great forum everyone I thought I was alone out here!

Changers

[IsaanAussie]

As a newbie to the piggy game this is of great interest as I have built stys of 3M x 3M in a row of 3 and will need to add a mirror image in the near future. Already had the village "Big Boss" appear and sniff the air and he went away happy, but this is Thailand ......

Get it in writing. If it is not on paper you have nothing. Then get the permit from the sub district

[MrChangers]

As a newbie to the piggy game this is of great interest as I have built stys of 3M x 3M in a row of 3 and will need to add a mirror image in the near future. Already had the village "Big Boss" appear and sniff the air and he went away happy, but this is Thailand ......

Get it in writing. If it is not on paper you have nothing. Then get the permit from the sub district

Mrs Changers is already on the case in the village and Monday will see her knocking the doors in Sangka. I was explaining last night and had the "I Thai, I know" until I explained in Thai your situation and I think the Thai equivalent of "Oh bugger, better get weaving!" issued forth. Thanks IA and sorry to hear of your plight.

Changers

[IsaanAussie]

Some of you pigsters may be interested in the attached article. It comes from Engormix and deals with the use of acidifiers in feed to reduce pathogenic organisms, improve FCR's but doesnt mention the smell reduction issue which was my main concern. I am using a probiotic contain Lactic acid bacteria in the drinking water and have produced vegetable protein supplements made by fermenting the vegetable in LAB prior to pellitising. Forgive the lack of more detail but I do intend to market the starter diet.

Anyhow the attached explains how it works.

Acidifiers as Antibacterial Agents in Swine.pdf

[COXYATCITY]

Thai Government Drops Pork Price Control

25 October 2012

THAILAND - The Commerce Ministry plans to suspend its recommended-price measure for pork after pig farmers were hurt by the severe drop in the price of pork.

According to

The Nation

of Thailand, Viboonlasana Ruamraksa, director-general of the Internal Trade Department, has said that the cancellation of the recommended prices would help push up pork prices. Farmers should not have to suffer from the dropping price after market demand softened but supply bulged.

The recommended pig price for the week beginning 14 October was THB48 to THB54 per kilogram, while the retail pork price is set at THB98 to THB106.

Pig farmers are considering cutting back on production to promote the pig price up to THB55 to THB60 a kilo, which would result in the retail price of pork heading up to THB120 to THB130 a kilo, concludes the report in

The Nation.

[IsaanAussie]

Strange timing? A Little late for those stuck with market pigs. Prices should go up seasonally from now and in fact the regional trends indicate that is starting. Perhaps a seasonal study over five years showing farmers where prices have been would be of more value.

But I get the feeling that this may well have something to do with agrobusiness departing farming and 2015 trade. A report I read some time ago suggested that Thailand was likely to become a net pork importer within ten years. Is this really to do with the welfare of the farmers? Lets hope so.

[humblefalang]

Balance Betagro feed

i am suspicious of the balance feed from my local dealer,

switched back to balance a couple of weeks ago

my 952 back is now different, it has less purple color in it, also there is no tick on the factury or mill it came from as the 951 bags do, on top of that the bags seem to have been stitched closed by a half drunk guy or child,

months ago i used balance and im sure all the 951,2,3,4 and so on bags where closed the same way.

i fear my dealer has used the cheaper feed in the more expensive bags,

the feed has no aroma, it seems to crumble easy very easy,

anyone using balance please let me know any change today from lets say 5 months ago.

Thanks

i hope you understand my post

[IsaanAussie]

Balance Betagro feed

i am suspicious of the balance feed from my local dealer,

switched back to balance a couple of weeks ago

my 952 back is now different, it has less purple color in it, also there is no tick on the factury or mill it came from as the 951 bags do, on top of that the bags seem to have been stitched closed by a half drunk guy or child,

months ago i used balance and im sure all the 951,2,3,4 and so on bags where closed the same way.

i fear my dealer has used the cheaper feed in the more expensive bags,

the feed has no aroma, it seems to crumble easy very easy,

anyone using balance please let me know any change today from lets say 5 months ago.

Thanks

i hope you understand my post

Only changes have been the bags and the cost. The stitching has always been bad. The new bags are not as good IMHO. It is possible they have changed the formulation to limit the price increases.

[COXYATCITY]

As stated in my reply to IA, I'm new to the game here in Thailand, well Surin province close to the Chong Chom border with Cambodia. I have been searching for auto feeders and before building one myself would appreciate any tips from people who have gone down this route already and bought.

We have 41 pigs that are on track for release end of December/January ..... I live in hope!

Great forum everyone I thought I was alone out here!

Changers

hello MrChangers,my farm is not to far from yours,,about 30 kilo,s from the the border,Baan Sai Prasat,do you really need auto feeders for 41 pigs,or do you mean the drums you put the feed into,then the pigs turn it around to make the feed drop out.

cheers Ian.

[IsaanAussie]

I have some of those Coxy. But will not be buying more.

[tingtong]

Thought why not report our first trial with pigs.

We bought 2, sold this week at 53thb/kg ( Chaiyaphum province).

They were small(er), wife said market demand is locally for those, so, about 70kg each.

If i recall correctly we had spent a total of 6400thb for them all inclusive, and got total of 7400thb.

not too impressive return, but along the expectation, what was breakeven to small profit. As added bonus, the poo will serve the veggie garden or the rice field.

Got positive feedbacks that they were more meat/less fat, happy customers are always key, imo.

Might give a second go for it, probably aiming to finish around songkran. would this be a possible good idea price-wise?

[IsaanAussie]

Thought why not report our first trial with pigs.

We bought 2, sold this week at 53thb/kg ( Chaiyaphum province).

They were small(er), wife said market demand is locally for those, so, about 70kg each.

If i recall correctly we had spent a total of 6400thb for them all inclusive, and got total of 7400thb.

not too impressive return, but along the expectation, what was breakeven to small profit. As added bonus, the poo will serve the veggie garden or the rice field.

Got positive feedbacks that they were more meat/less fat, happy customers are always key, imo.

Might give a second go for it, probably aiming to finish around songkran. would this be a possible good idea price-wise?

Answer is simple, 500 baht a head gross. What the nett margin is only you will know or even put a value on. Without any offense meant, my advice is, do not give up your day job!

[COXYATCITY]

I have some of those Coxy. But will not be buying more.

.hello Tony,whats the problem with the drums ?

[COXYATCITY]

I have some of those Coxy. But will not be buying more.

.hello Tony,whats the problem with the drums is it health ? and what do you use now,your reply could be very helpful to us pigsters,

cheers Ian

[IsaanAussie]

I have drum feeders that I use for weaned pigs. I bought them as a short term thing while I decided what I wanted to use permanently. I find them a nuisance to clean and move around. With larger hungry pigs it is always a push and shove match which you have to do if you are feeding to diet not just topping up the feeder while the pigs are sleeping. Also you have to have a range of sizes of feeders. If you use just the large ones then the wastage with small pigs is too high.

I use stainless bowls mounted in the front of the pens. Some pictures etc are shown in the attachment to entry #7 of the topic.

What I have found is the pigs are a lot more relaxed in their own "personal space".

[tingtong]

Thought why not report our first trial with pigs.

We bought 2, sold this week at 53thb/kg ( Chaiyaphum province).

They were small(er), wife said market demand is locally for those, so, about 70kg each.

If i recall correctly we had spent a total of 6400thb for them all inclusive, and got total of 7400thb.

not too impressive return, but along the expectation, what was breakeven to small profit. As added bonus, the poo will serve the veggie garden or the rice field.

Got positive feedbacks that they were more meat/less fat, happy customers are always key, imo.

Might give a second go for it, probably aiming to finish around songkran. would this be a possible good idea price-wise?

Answer is simple, 500 baht a head gross. What the nett margin is only you will know or even put a value on. Without any offense meant, my advice is, do not give up your day job!

Thanks IA!

No intention to give up my day job for this just now.

But we are thinking that might try few more next, maybe 4-5...it is for my wife to keep her busy ( is she isnt busy enough with the catfish) as well a little adventure for us, and maybe some pocket money and organic fertiliser for the land.

would be interested to know that for a small pig farmer ( less than 10?) how much net margin/head is normal these days?

just to see where we are, and get an aim where we should head.

[IsaanAussie]

At any scale, a gross margin of 500 baht is as good as you are going to get under current prices. Since you did it with ham size pigs around 70Kgs, you should be happy as you probably not have received one baht more had you grown them out to market weight at this time.

Glad to see you using the manure. This is where you reduce costs. The compost and fertilisers we make and sell cover 20% of our feed bills. Using water plants and alternate feeds you can grow or collect yourself will help even more.

Net margins mean different things to everyone, to me I fail to see anyone able to keep the accountant happy at the moment. Things are tight.

[revar]

tingtong,

during pansa a profit of 500 bath is very good. you sold at 53 , which is 5 bath higher then what they are paying here for village pigs. I am near dankhuntod about 60km from chaiapum. And I did worse averaging only 350 profit during pansa. And I am getting a few bath extra for my pigs than other pigfarmers around here because of quality of the meat.

Thing have been very bad in the pig business and nobody else here is making a profit. most people have to sell crops to meet the feed bills.

So maybe you have a good market and not too much competition. If so you should make about a 1000 bath profit during normal periods. And times like western, chinese and thai new year more.

But, with only a few pigs your profit becomes a loss if even one pig dies because of sickness or a scorpion sting. Or for some reason does not grow as quickly or big as others.

Enjoy and learn from.your few pigs. I started with 8 pigs and now have 70 and building the pens for another 60.

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[IsaanAussie]

Guys,

Go talk to your feed supplier. Ask them "Hows business?" Do what I do, go check the stock levels out back first. Then come back and say, feed sales are up, down, whatever. Objective, stock levels. Who has pigs?

[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

For me, after 5 months daily work, a profit of 500 baht per pig is "manure" and I do not give a dollop of "manure" who knows it. My sty cost a "manure" load of money and my personal effort is worth more than a cup full of "manure" a day.

I admire what you are doing and think you are on the right track personally but your advice to a newbie pig farmer is ....

Tingtong,

You have a very long way to go to get to the business balance Revar has. But having met you perhaps the two of you should get together just to chew the back fat

[shaggy1969]

Hi folks,i have been popping in to this thread every now and then and by the looks of it things are pretty gloomy atm.Having had a go at pig farming myself I know it's a lot of hard work.

I really hope that things pick up for you all and that you all get your just rewards in the near future.

Shaggy

[revar]

IA,

I undestood you make a better profit because of your sale and usage of manure, alternative food additives and other things.

I am however very curious on what average profit per pig you are aiming for.

I do better then the figures I stated because of my feed shop and other factors.

But tingtong asked about reasonable profit per pig for only a few pigs. I think he wants to start carefull without big investments. And if he likes it he can expand, learn and improve efficiency. leading to better profits for less work.

When I started with 8 pigs it took me an hour to clean the one pen. (no slope, gardenhose, bad cement) The one I have just finished take me between 5and 10 minutes including manually mucking it out.

the figures I mentioned are average profits over the last 1.5 year which the small 8-20 pig farmers with basic wooden pens and no income from manure have made.

There are about 15 of those around my village and they buy feed at my shop and/or I arrange for the sale of their finished pigs. So I have a good feel about their profits/losses. Note that this 1.5 year period did also include times with prices at 67 bath and at 43 bath a kilo.

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[revar]

Hi folks,i have been popping in to this thread every now and then and by the looks of it things are pretty gloomy atm.Having had a go at pig farming myself I know it's a lot of hard work.

I really hope that things pick up for you all and that you all get your just rewards in the near future.

Shaggy

Hi shaggy,

Times may be difficult money/profitwise but pigs are still so much fun! Getting up and going to bed with a smile. And with pansa over prices are going up again so things are improving.

Its easy to teach english here for around 30k a month but I rather be with my wife and pigs the whole day.

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