never said it gave any rights to anyone married niall, just pointing out facts, if the guy wants to have so much power in his relationship then maybe he should find somewhere where he has a few rights to begin with. Jeez, stroppy bugger aren't you & you talk about us women

Boo,

My need to have so much power in a relationship is a direct result of standing in front of a UK Family Court judge who was reading the list of my assets I had had to provide to her (yes a female) under threat of jail. She then decided which of my assets I would be allowed to keep, which wasn't much.

I am aware that in Thailand I have little rights but as my cash is in Singapore ultimately I have the right to walk away with my assets which I never had in UK.

And before someone jumps in and says I'm obsessed with money I am not I believe money is for spending but I will not expose myself to legalised theft again.

Pearl,

Yes I have read Dworkin's work. Now if she is so unpopular as you claim why is NOW campaigning for funds for a public monument for her in Washington DC?

Hmm... well Pearl thanks us all for staying on thread and then veers off in to a feminazi diatribe.

I will take the bait a little and propose another thread 'what western men in Thailand think of feminazis' where we can slug it out.

The small amount of the bait I will take:

The term feminazi is attributed to US shockjock Howard Stern.  Its meaning is too fold:

1.  It describes a rigid system of thought control as that practised by the Nazi party.

From less than 30 seconds on Google to Wixpedia:

The term was popularized by prominent broadcaster Rush Limbaugh, who credited his friend Tom Hazlett, a professor of economics at the University of California, Davis, with coining the term.

It's a pop and thoughtless term for those too "rigid" to engage in a real dialogue. Heard of Goodwin's law?

The terms Gender War and feminazi are very polemic terms and trying to reach an agreement in defining them is also not conducive to discussion. You also missed the parts of my post where I try and reach out and bridge the gap between (reasonable) people.

2.  Men are well aware that the major of leading feminazis are Jewish such as Gloria Steinem, you see the term is MEANT to be an insult.

It always amuses me when a feminazi come out with 'well Dworkin is a polemicist' we don't REALLY literally believe what she says.  Well why elevate her to iconic status if you don't believe what she says then?

Have you ever even read Dworkin?

Please don't cite Dworkin. That 'woman' is one of the reasons folks like Richard have the opinions they do.

Any philosophy that is supported by an assumption that there is an inherant foulness in a basic human function is not a philosophy we should entertain, as with Dworkin

Boo I think you made a good point that you didn't mean to, in that LC is just as successful as her western sisters yet she doesnt show off about it. Thai women tend to need heavy prompting before you find out about their qualifications, whereas the opposite can be said for most English women in my personal experience.

I have never spouted my qualifications of which I have none academically but am proud of the fact that I can stand on my own two feet & am successful in my own way but why shouldn't anyone be able to be proud of their acheivements without fear ofinadvertantly upsetting the ego (?) of another?

......why shouldn't anyone be able to be proud of their acheivements without fear ofinadvertantly upsetting the ego (?) of another?

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Jeeeezes, Boo - how many times do we have to tell you - because it upsets us guys here in Thailand.

Didn't you already mention that you were proud of your accomplishments, or was it someone else? Anyway, I've certainly never written it and never said it to anyone. It's the difference in attitude - as a man shouldn't I be less demure than you? Why then do I feel embarassed at the thought of writing that sentence but you do not? Honest questions.

Hmm... well Pearl thanks us all for staying on thread and then veers off in to a feminazi diatribe.

I will take the bait a little and propose another thread 'what western men in Thailand think of feminazis' where we can slug it out.

The small amount of the bait I will take:

The term feminazi is attributed to US shockjock Howard Stern.  Its meaning is too fold:

1.  It describes a rigid system of thought control as that practised by the Nazi party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From less than 30 seconds on Google to Wixpedia:

The term was popularized by prominent broadcaster Rush Limbaugh, who credited his friend Tom Hazlett, a professor of economics at the University of California, Davis, with coining the term.

It's a pop and thoughtless term for those too "rigid" to engage in a real dialogue. Heard of Goodwin's law?

The terms Gender War and feminazi are very polemic terms and trying to reach an agreement in defining them is also not conducive to discussion. You also missed the parts of my post where I try and reach out and bridge the gap between (reasonable) people.

2.  Men are well aware that the major of leading feminazis are Jewish such as Gloria Steinem, you see the term is MEANT to be an insult.

It always amuses me when a feminazi come out with 'well Dworkin is a polemicist' we don't REALLY literally believe what she says.  Well why elevate her to iconic status if you don't believe what she says then?

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Have you ever even read Dworkin?

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Please don't cite Dworkin. That 'woman' is one of the reasons folks like Richard have the opinions they do.

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C'mon now, how does a centered, compassionate argument defending the term feminism become, "I'm an Andrea Dworkin fan"?

That's like saying looking at Baerly Legal is akin to paedophilia.

When you edit quotes, edit them to address the pertinent parts of the argument, not to edit out the substance of it. The full quote was:

Have you ever even read Dworkin? It is so absurd yet Rush and his buddies were too stupid to get that bashing the absurdity of it that they sold her books. I don't know of anybody in academia that really takes her seriously at all or anybody else who read her and didn't dislike the tone. She rarely appeared in public and her "iconic" status is almost like looking at a car crash. And that's coming from a women's college graduate.

Just my 2 cents on Andrea Dworkin - a raging man-hater who typically spouted stuff like this:

"Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name. "

One of the points these guys who have an agenda latch upon.

Even in ancient times, Thai women used to go into battle alongside their men against the Burmese etc so the argument Thai pooying have been 'free' for some centuries?

Sorry, Pearl. Some cross-posting happening...

Will, did you read the post properly? As your question doens't make a lot of sense to me. Sorry

I said that ANYONE should be able to be proud & talk about their acheivements if they choose as the delicate egos of others shoudln't bother them. So up to you if you want to talk about it or not but suggesting that because some thai women don't, makes it more acceptable is exactly my point, why shouldn't they if they want & if they dont up to them but if I or any other person wants to then why should we?

blimey, this is getting confusing.

Just my 2 cents on Andrea Dworkin - a raging man-hater who typically spouted stuff like this:

"Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name. "

One of the points these guys who have an agenda latch upon.

Even in ancient times, Thai women used to go into battle alongside their men against the Burmese etc so the argument Thai pooying have been 'free' for some centuries?

Sorry, Pearl.  Some cross-posting happening...

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That's one of her milder statements!

You quoted her after all, that's funny

Dworkin on loving your parents and children LITERALLY!

'The parent-child relationship is primarily erotic because all human relationships are primarily erotic. The incest taboo is a particularized form of repression, one which functions as the bulwark of all other repressions. The incest taboo ensures that however free we become, we never become genuinely free. The incest taboo, because it denies us essential fulfillment with the parents whom we love with our primary energy, forces us to internalize those parents and constantly seek them.

The incest taboo does the worst work of the culture: it teaches us the mechanisms of repressing and internalizing erotic feeling -- it forces us to develop those mechanisms in the first place; it forces us to particularize sexual feeling, so that it congeals into a need for a particular sexual "object"; it demands that we place the nuclear family above the human family. The destruction of the incest taboo is essential to the development of cooperative human community based on the free-flow of natural androgynous eroticism.

Well according to Buddha she would be my wife,

You misunderstrand a blessing by monks for an actual marriage. Thats actually more of a local custom, as there is really no such ceremony of marriage in buddhist literature. You also talk of "Buddha" as if he were a god which is a misconception.

cv

Guys & Gals, sorry to intrude on your pissing contest about feminist literature but can you start another topic if you want to discuss it as to me it's all &lt;deleted&gt; & completly off topic. Cheers

Boo

I have never spouted my qualifications of which I have none academically but am proud of the fact that I can stand on my own two feet & am successful in my own way but why shouldn't anyone be able to be proud of their acheivements without fear ofinadvertantly upsetting the ego (?) of another?

Ok I shall try and make it clearer. My fumbled point is that your final question regarding ego is telling as to the root of the conflict at hand. 'Why shouldn't I be proud of myself, look at what I've achieved!' isn't exactly what you said but it is not a far cry from the attitude in question. Most Thai women don't have this attitude for the very reason that they do find fear in possibly upsetting the ego of another, whereas you apparantly do not, and nor do most western women I know. I also tried to explain that even I, as a man, feel a certain sensitivity to this issue that leads me to feel embarassed at the thought of writing the sentence 'why shouldn't I be proud, look what I've achieved' or anything similar.

Many men fall for asian women because, as mentioned previously, they are expert 'ego handlers'. For all my female cousins' qualifications, she is yet to reach the basic understanding of men that most Thai women seem to have, which is why her relationships fail, and fail.

I said that ANYONE should be able to be proud & talk about their acheivements if they choose as the delicate egos of others shoudln't bother them. So up to you if you want to talk about it or not but suggesting that because some thai women don't, makes it more acceptable is exactly my point, why shouldn't they if they want & if they dont up to them but if I or any other person wants to then why should we

Egos are delicate by nature, no more so than the ego of the 'modern man'. To not worry about damaging them is a mistake on your part, and all the evidence is right here in this thread. Man is never so insecure as when he is under the scrutiny of a female, and the way in which the average western women and the average thai women handle this sort of moment is the real test of which genotypes will, ultimately, rule the world. (How about that for dramatics!)

Which is why I married a man that has his ego in tact & is proud of my acheivements too as I am of his.

And also why I don't have to care about any men that come to thailand for a wife or their reasons why. Lucky me

Ah, but you miss my point, so I have failed again to explain. Mai Pben Rai..

no i got your point & thank your for your explaination, probably the most honest answer anyone could have given, but still , I don't pander, full stop, my husband knows I don't pander & neither does he to me & if you like a women that does then I am not the girl for you but there are plenty out there of any nationality who do, so don't think you can really define that trait to just thai women or that ALL western women don't.

Can I ask, does this form of interaction, or pandering, not appeal to you because you feel it demeans you?

no, just not my personality, I don't pander, but then I don't put down either, if I praise or compliment my husband or anyone it's because I mean it not becuase they might expect it. A compliment is better if genuine & I hate fake.

Not everything is an agenda or a feminist issue, half the time I don't know why I do what I do because it is just my own make up & personalilty, I don't spend too much time to analys the whys & wherefores & think that too much effort is put into trying to find out why instead of just accepting as is.

In my days back home it seemed I met a lot of men who had a horrible time moving on after a failed relationship. I knew quite a few in the 40 something age that had never, even after many years, been able to deal with a love lost or a failed marriage. I think you see that in some men’s attitudes here, both on this forum and in everyday life. Once bitten twice shy. They retreat away from what hurt them. “Western women”

I think a great majority of the female farangs here are quite different then the majority in their homelands. To leave your home country and go overseas takes a certain type of person. In my experience most of the women that have been here for any length of time, are secure, and confident.

In defense of my sisters back home, there is a lot of B__S being pumped into their heads. From the media as well as their peers. I found it a wonderful experience to be away from all the well meaning comments once we came here. People (including some here on this forum) feel its their business to tell you how you or your spouse should behave. What is acceptable and what is not.

richard10365

“I would much rather have a woman concerned with taking care of her family than taking care of the store, getting her 2nd degree, working for that big promotion, having meetings with the mayor (who is probably a woman), and worrying if her a$$ is too big from sitting in the office chairs all day.”

Generations of women also learned that men leave. Sometimes they leave you with the children, the mortgage, and the bills. Is it wrong for women to have learned that they must be able to care for themselves??????

I teach my daughters, get to know yourself, know how to take care of yourself. Then and only then will you be able to know how and who to love. Once you know yourself and are secure you can truly give yourself to another without holding back or limiting the relationship. My number one priority is my husband and family however Richard sometimes that takes on different roles. You are very narrow minded if you think it is always relax and cook dinner honey. My husband and I have always run businesses together. I have my role and he has his. Sometimes I support while he is exploring new ventures. You know what, sometimes he even cooks dinner when I have had my hands full. I spent many years as a single Mom, if it were needed I would handle everything again, alone. Too Many of you out there have issues you cannot seem to grow out of. Most Western Women I know place taking care of their man very high on the priority list maybe you didn’t ever merit a genuine relationship.

Richard you simply put, are exactly the type this thread was started because of!

Many men fall for asian women because, as mentioned previously, they are expert 'ego handlers'. For all my female cousins' qualifications, she is yet to reach the basic understanding of men that most Thai women seem to have, which is why her relationships fail, and fail.

Egos are delicate by nature, no more so than the ego of the 'modern man'. To not worry about damaging them is a mistake on your part, and all the evidence is right here in this thread. Man is never so insecure as when he is under the scrutiny of a female, and the way in which the average western women and the average thai women handle this sort of moment is the real test of which genotypes will, ultimately, rule the world. (How about that for dramatics!)

Oxfordwill, I love ya honey but your argument is seriously flawed. There are many many successful relationships between men and western women, an insecure man is an insecure man regardless of whether or not his wife/gf "handles" his ego. My sister is a successful research physicist, earning far more money than her husband. He does most of the cooking (she is too much of a perfectionist to get a normal meal on the table, has to be gourmet!). My brother-in-law is in no way threatened by my sister's success or intelligence. They have been married 25 years. I am an intelligent woman who feels that a true marriage is where both people are involved in the decision making. My Thai husband values my opinion and appreciates the fact that I am who I am. He is in no way threatened by me and I never feel the need to "handle" his ego. He is perfectly confident in who he is and who I am. We are partners not competitors. We celebrate our 16th wedding anniversary next month. I really believe that the "insecure ego" argument is invalid. A secure man does not need his wife or partner to massage his ego. Just as a secure woman does not need it either. The relationships you are describing sound to me like needy co-dependent unhealthy relationships. A relationship does not fail because the woman won't "handle" the man's ego. A relationship fails because BOTH people fail to work out their problems and issues.

A secure man does not need his wife or partner to massage his ego. Just as a secure woman does not need it either. The relationships you are describing sound to me like needy co-dependent unhealthy relationships. A relationship does not fail because the woman won't "handle" the man's ego. A relationship fails because BOTH people fail to work out their problems and issues.

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Everyone loves compliments but needing ego boosting is a totally different subject

In my days back home it seemed I met a lot of men who had a horrible time moving on after a failed relationship. I knew quite a few in the 40 something age that had never, even after many years, been able to deal with a love lost or a failed marriage. I think  you see that in some men’s attitudes here, both on this forum and in everyday life. Once bitten twice shy. They retreat away from what hurt them. ...................................................... Most Western Women I know place taking care of their man very high on the priority list maybe you didn’t ever merit a genuine relationship.

Richard you simply put, are exactly the type this thread was started because of!

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I've been reading this thread from the begining, trying to think of something to say, I think this has come closest to what I would of liked to of writen if I could of been bothered. Nice post bggg. (sorry I did'nt quote your whole post as it's long)

Oh the last thing I actally need is someone "massaging my ego" it plenty big enough already

Oh the last thing I actally need is someone "massaging my ego" it plenty big enough already

Who needs massaging an ego - far prefer massaging err somewhere else.

my old man is with you on that brit, much prefers to massaged somewhere else

In the US I'd come home and my wife would wai to me, the lady falangs would get boiling mad.

One barked at her "YOU NEVER BOW TO A MAN!!"

My wife asked her "Why? you not respect husband?"

I tried not to laugh, but i couldnt stop it, she snared at me as she waddled off

Priceless

In the US I'd come home and my wife would wai to me, the lady falangs would get boiling mad.

One barked at her "YOU NEVER BOW TO A MAN!!"

My wife asked her "Why? you not respect husband?"

I tried not to laugh, but i couldnt stop it, she snared at me as she waddled off

Priceless

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In Thailand, respect for the eldery is important ... so, we will all try not to laugh ... too loud

But &lt;deleted&gt; is going on in this forum ! It's a real zoo and you can even virtually meet living Dinausor !

TripX - You need to explain why this view troubles you, to the extent that you would go so far as to deny me conversation with you. Having read it, if you still have a problem with it, you need to explain what that problem is instead of just insulting me. You'll find I do intelligent discussion quite well, it's you that is offering nothing to go on.

I fail to find an insult in anything I replied to you. I am simply saying that I am totally taken aback by what you have implied, that not every person is allowed to have an opinion about something. I understand your point that you feel people need to study, dissect, and take some time with a subject before forming an opinion about it. With this, I do not agree. Besides, how are you able to deduce if a person has studied the subject at hand anyway? You ask for credentials?

Whether a person likes it or not, whether they agree with it or not, any person is allowed to form their own opinion no matter how much they have studied the problem. An individuals opinion may not be an informed one, which seems to bother you, but they are still allowed to have one. That is what is special about being a human being, that we are able to have free will to form our own opinion whether they be thought-out ones or not. There will always be multiple times whereas a person disagrees with you, argues their own point of view, and you know that this person just doesn't know anything about the topic at hand. No matter, this person is still allowed to have their own opinion about it even if they don't know jack-s**t. That is free will.

Don't know if this saying has been posted but it sums up my attitude to the entire thread:

"What counts in making a happy marriage is not so much how compatible you are, but how you deal with incompatibility."

A lot of what's been posted so far has addressed that...