Bangkok At Night Turns Violent Inferno Now

[OldAsiaHand]

There's no law in this country, not in the "western" sense. If you have to deal with the police you might get lucky and get all cooperation, or you might get a cold shoulder and "it's your problem, not mine" attitude.

People, including the police, will not stand for what is right, they will stand for WHO is right. Everyone should be aware of this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said and a point worth keeping in mind.

Westerners instinctively believe in rule of law and the fairness of law enforcement authorities even if they've never thought about it much. Part of the foreigner's exposure here in Thailand is that, should something untoward happen, the foreigner will not be treated by authorities in an even handed manner. Of course, the New York cops can treat visitors differently, too, but as a rule, everyone is treated more or less equally badly. That's just not true in Thailand. As a foreigner, if you are involved in any incident, you're on your own. And good luck to you.

[snoophound]

Yep sure any big city has its crime.

Drugs and Alcohol play their part.

Have to say the areas like SUK the only trouble I have ever seen us usualy caused by your drunken,tatooed,soccer hooligans....darned exchange rate is way too good to them.

If there's a big rise in crime against farang you can pretty well bet it's across the board but Thais not so publicised... - well.. maybe just look at front page of Thai Rath.

The world is in general becoming more violent (see BBC for chip throwing incident in Islington, London).

BUT am I the only one to notice this? Doesn't it seem to be that half the populations of certain neighbouring countries have come to Thailand. I have lived in Chiang Mai for many years and you walk down any street and hear people  talking .. its not Thai or English and not even any of the more local hilltribe languages. There is a huge influx of people coming into the country, some legally and some not.

The numbers are astounding. The next stop after Chiang Mai for many is Bangkok which pays slightly better for labour. I have seen and heard of case after case. Some of these people have Baat Dang Dao and some have nothing.

This is certainly fuelling the crime situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Slim Chance]

Get a load of this:

I went on a visa run, on the 18th of this month, same day as John Charlesworth, self-proclaimed real man and proud subject of the English queen.

Having already finished the bag full of warm cans of beer that he had spilled boarding the mini-van in the morning, Mr. Charlesworth replenished his supply and, additionally, bought a bottle of ‘Johnny Walker Red’ (the quality stuff made out back of the duty-free shop, comes in plastic bottles), which he was quite proud of. This provided fuel for the long trip back.

Within the first hour of the return trip Mr. Charlesworth had commandeered the stereo system and made sure we all didn’t fall off to sleep and could share in a great time together listening to that lovely Gangsta Rap music of the late 90’s -at full volume. Same stuff my son used to listen to at 14.

Then he turned his attention to a young lady who he very aggressively insisted should drink ‘Johnny Walker Red’ with him. Generous chap. When, for the third time, she politely refused his kind offer, Mr. Charlesworth did what any real man would do and abused her by telling her how ugly she was and how people of her nationality were all a bunch of very dirty words, too numerous to mention. This warmed him up and he was soon attempting to terrorize the man sitting closest to him who had made the mistake of not agreeing with him, was firm in that he had no interest in talking to him or being ’friends’, and refused to shake his hand.

Then Mr. Charlesworth became agitated and things got a little crazy in the mini-van. While making patriotic speeches regarding the general greatness of Great Britain and it’s great citizenry while cursing, first and foremost the Americans, who think that they’re better than everyone else, drop bombs, and are not very friendly, but he eventually got around to hating pretty much everyone in general.

He was quite large, far taller than anyone else in the van, and was up swinging his fists around wanting to; ‘go man-to-man’. He managed to lose his already consumed ‘JWR’ (on his own shoes) and his trousers within a minute of each other. He was showing his Great British ass both figuratively and literally.

To make an already too-long story (possibly the longest 4 hours of my life) less long, let me say that we finally left Mr. Charlesworth on the side of the highway after he threatened to put a knife in the neck of a lady, not the ugly unfriendly American but a Thai lady, and declared that he was going to ‘put the drivers head through the window, crash the bus, and take out everybody‘. As the van pulled away from him, he was running alongside it trying to smash out it’s windows with his fists.

I suspected that gangsta rap was bad for you, but….

Incidentally! I’ve followed the story on the charming Mr. Charlesworth and learned, if my facts are correct-- I’ve no reason to doubt them-- that he has been in Thailand for 16 years. He claims to teach English, is fluent in the Thai language, and says he ’can’t return to England‘. After living at the ’Crown’ on Sukhumwit Soi 23 for the last 9 months, he checked out at 6 a.m. the morning after the visa run shenanigan; just before the detectives arrived to speak to him. He left no forwarding address.

Sure wish I knew how to find him. We could have a drink for old times sake.

What would happen if a foreigner behaved like that in London?

[toddy]

My best defence in BKK is my Buriram Honda Dealership Jacket that I got free with my scooter! 'Eh you farang-khymer' - free beers and everything - especially when I know their home villages etc. Nothing like a beer outside the 7-11 with the motorcycle taxi guys taking the piss out of the 99 year old foreigners arm in arm with some bat-faced bird (not in an evil way though)! I just never got Bangkok and I don't think these geezers do either - they just use it for cash to spend upcountry ( as I suppose I do ). Thus far its all a game but then you get the real psychos who don't see anything - just want aggro. and then the jacket only means I am 'farang ki nok'.

[PattayaEx]

Get a load of this:

I went on a visa run, on the 18th of this month, same day as John Charlesworth, self-proclaimed real man and proud subject of the English queen.

Having already finished the bag full of warm cans of beer that he had spilled boarding the mini-van in the morning, Mr. Charlesworth replenished his supply and, additionally, bought a bottle of ‘Johnny Walker Red’ (the quality stuff made out back of the duty-free shop, comes in plastic bottles), which he was quite proud of. This provided fuel for the long trip back.

Within the first hour of the return trip Mr. Charlesworth had commandeered the stereo system and made sure we all didn’t fall off to sleep and could share in a great time together  listening to that lovely Gangsta Rap music of the late 90’s -at full volume. Same stuff my son used to listen to at 14.

Then he turned his attention to a young lady who he very aggressively insisted should drink ‘Johnny Walker Red’ with him. Generous chap. When, for the third time, she politely refused his kind offer, Mr. Charlesworth did what any real man would do and abused her by telling her how ugly she was and how people of her nationality were all a bunch of very dirty words, too numerous to mention. This warmed him up and he was soon attempting to terrorize the man sitting closest to him who had made the mistake of not agreeing with him, was firm in that he had no interest in talking to him or being ’friends’, and refused to shake his hand.

Then Mr. Charlesworth became agitated and things got a little crazy in the mini-van. While making patriotic speeches regarding the general greatness of Great Britain and it’s great citizenry while cursing,  first and foremost the Americans, who think that they’re better than everyone else, drop bombs, and are not very friendly, but he eventually got around to hating pretty much everyone in general.

He was quite large, far taller than anyone else in the van, and was up swinging his fists around wanting to; ‘go man-to-man’. He managed to lose his already consumed ‘JWR’ (on his own shoes) and his trousers within a minute of each other. He was showing his Great British ass both figuratively and literally.

To make an already too-long story (possibly the longest 4 hours of my life) less long, let me say that we finally left Mr. Charlesworth on the side of the highway after he threatened to put a knife in the neck of a lady, not the ugly unfriendly American but a Thai lady, and  declared that he was going to ‘put the drivers head through the window, crash the bus, and take out everybody‘. As the van pulled away from him, he was running alongside it trying to smash out it’s windows with his fists.

I suspected that gangsta rap was bad for you, but….

Incidentally! I’ve followed the story on the charming Mr. Charlesworth and learned, if my facts are correct-- I’ve no reason to doubt them-- that he has been in Thailand for 16 years. He claims to teach English, is fluent in the Thai language, and says he ’can’t return to England‘. After living at the ’Crown’ on Sukhumwit Soi 23 for the last 9 months, he checked out at 6 a.m. the morning after the visa run shenanigan; just before the detectives arrived to speak to him. He left no forwarding address.

Sure wish I knew how to find him. We could have a drink for old times sake.

What would happen if a foreigner behaved like that in London?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could have had him taken care of for life for only 8000 baht...

then we would see how her majesty's man would do in a weelchair

[toddy]

Motorcycle gangs are the big pain the arse. They won't stop at nothing. Some time ago there was a short story in the papers about police station being attacked and shot at with the police hiding in the back and calling for reinforcements, which were too late to catch anyone, of course. These guys seem to feel free to do anything they want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er - These 'Motorcycle Gangs' are young kids on scooters NOT choppers / Harleys etc. Just to let everyone who doesn't ride know that 'real' Motorcycle Clubs in Thailand such as 'Burapha' or 'Nagas' etc do not engage in beating people senseless.

[englishoak]

Of course things are getting worse in BKK but then again it's all over the world. Time changes everything and ATM we are seeing a worldwide increase in violent crime.

That said I think all major cities are a magnet for crime. Mabe it's the amount of people % in a small area.

It's also true a lot more idiots/thugs are going to Thailand than before. A great influence Information on the net about the west just makes more thai students act like thier mentors.

That being said there is still no comparison to crime in the UK and if you are smart enough not to assume everything is always rosy in BKK you should be fine. A little common sense and awareness will go a long way to keeping you safe anywhere in the world.

Having been to many countries I still maintain Thailand is one of the safest places I have lived in.

Unfortunate situations can happen to anyone and one eye always open is a good idea wherever you are.

As for owning guns! you must be some kind of nut in the first place.

[bossman]

Of course things are getting worse in BKK but then again it's all over the world. Time changes everything and ATM we are seeing a worldwide increase in violent crime.

That said I think all major cities are a magnet for crime. Mabe it's the amount of people % in a small area.

It's also true a lot more idiots/thugs are going to Thailand than before. A great influence  Information on the net about the west just makes more thai students act like thier mentors.

That being said there is still no comparison to crime in the UK and if you are smart enough not to assume everything is always rosy in BKK you should be fine. A little common sense and awareness will go a long way to keeping you safe anywhere in the world.

Having been to many countries I still maintain Thailand is one of the safest places I have lived in.

Unfortunate situations can happen to anyone and one eye always open is a good idea wherever you are.

As for owning guns!    you must be some kind of nut in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Finally, someone who can put things into perspective. It's much more unsafe here in California than it is in Thailand. People also tend to conduct themselves like bitter &lt;deleted&gt; on day to day affairs. I sure do miss that Thai smile..even if it's phony 75% of the time the thais still believe in basic courtesy. This is something that's becoming increasingly rare in the U.S. at least.

[dantilley]

That being said there is still no comparison to crime in the UK and if you are smart enough not to assume everything is always rosy in BKK you should be fine. A little common sense and awareness will go a long way to keeping you safe anywhere in the world.

Exactly. The overall yob culture in the UK is far worse than anything you'll see in Thailand. In any reasonably sized UK town or city there are massive amounts of drink-fuelled violence every weekend. If you walk around in a city centre after midnight there's a fair chance you'll get attacked or abused in some way. If you take a wrong turn and walk around some of the rougher neigbourhoods at this time I'd say it would be a certainty that you'll get attacked or mugged.

In English cities you'll get groups of hoodlums wandering around vandalising property, verbally abusing people and robbing people. That happens everywhere, all the time. And then there are the soccer hooligans, binge drinkers and racist thugs... You don't get this kind of random, widespread and constant antisocial behaviour in Bangkok. A few isolated incidents occasionally do happen but they are very isolated. Yes, the attacks talked about here are awful, but they're rare occurances.

And to get violent bouncers like the ones described earlier is the exception, not the rule here. It's the other way around in England - if you're blind drunk and can't pay your bill you can expect similar treatment.

A few farangs have the wrong attitude here and that can get them into trouble. If you're the kind of obnoxious idiot who will tell an Australian guy that "everyone hates Australians" then you're going to get in trouble eventually here. Back in the UK that kind of rude, obnoxious behaviour is far more common: the aforementioned gangs of yobs will specifically go out "foreigner-bashing" or "student-bashing".

And, Plus+, I think it is relevant to compare Bangkok to western cities because that will be many people's frame of reference. Bangkok may be considered dangerous if you're home town is a clean, utopian-type place with almost no crime occurring at all.

But for any Brits reading this and having second thoughts about coming to Bangkok because of high violent crime levels, take it from me that compared with where you're from Bangkok is very safe indeed. You have nothing to worry about.

[sadako]

That being said there is still no comparison to crime in the UK and if you are smart enough not to assume everything is always rosy in BKK you should be fine. A little common sense and awareness will go a long way to keeping you safe anywhere in the world.

Exactly. The overall yob culture in the UK is far worse than anything you'll see in Thailand. In any reasonably sized UK town or city there are massive amounts of drink-fuelled violence every weekend. If you walk around in a city centre after midnight there's a fair chance you'll get attacked or abused in some way. If you take a wrong turn and walk around some of the rougher neigbourhoods at this time I'd say it would be a certainty that you'll get attacked or mugged.

In English cities you'll get groups of hoodlums wandering around vandalising property, verbally abusing people and robbing people. That happens everywhere, all the time. And then there are the soccer hooligans, binge drinkers and racist thugs... You don't get this kind of random, widespread and constant antisocial behaviour in Bangkok. A few isolated incidents occasionally do happen but they are very isolated. Yes, the attacks talked about here are awful, but they're rare occurances.

And to get violent bouncers like the ones described earlier is the exception, not the rule here. It's the other way around in England - if you're blind drunk and can't pay your bill you can expect similar treatment.

A few farangs have the wrong attitude here and that can get them into trouble. If you're the kind of obnoxious idiot who will tell an Australian guy that "everyone hates Australians" then you're going to get in trouble eventually here. Back in the UK that kind of rude, obnoxious behaviour is far more common: the aforementioned gangs of yobs will specifically go out "foreigner-bashing" or "student-bashing".

And, Plus+, I think it is relevant to compare Bangkok to western cities because that will be many people's frame of reference. Bangkok may be considered dangerous if you're home town is a clean, utopian-type place with almost no crime occurring at all.

But for any Brits reading this and having second thoughts about coming to Bangkok because of high violent crime levels, take it from me that compared with where you're from Bangkok is very safe indeed. You have nothing to worry about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Advice taken , wont put me off , still feel safer in BKK than I do in Bedford UK ( very small in comparison ) where we recently witnessed one man having his arm cut off and half his head cut off . His two mates were found in the freezer , cut into pieces of course .

Whats the general feeling in Thailand about Thais reactions when they see a farang with a Thai girl ? My girl is Thai , and we have walked around BKK many times hand in hand , just wondering what you all think may be the general opinion of this by Thais .. My girl says most Thais just think the girlis either with the farang for the money , for sex , or are genuinely in love ....we get many stares , but never any trouble , anyone know of instances where Thai people make trouble for Thai - farang relationships ? Not that it will distract me of course ! Shes tooooooooo nice to be scared away !!! Just wondering ....

[andyadam]

Another case happened right in front of my eyes. It happened in the back of Kao San Road last week or so. A place called Bangkok Bar. I was drinking with 2 friends next to the bar then suddenly saw all the securities were beating the ###### out of a foreign guy. He was covered with blood and lied unconscious on the street and these bar securities still no stop and continued to kick him on the face and his head. From what I saw the guy's face is disfigured by all the kicking. No one help and no police came for another 1 hour or so. And finally a rescue truck came and took the motionless body. I observed the police did not even do anything and did not even question these bar securities who involved in the street lynching that may have take his life or very close to it.

Later I asked a foriegn guy who was in the pub what happened. He told me this poor guy was so drunk and have no money in his pocket to pay for his bill. So one security guy started to hit his head and face and then all of them followed and hit and  kick this poor man's face and head for next 30 minutes as he lied motionless on the street without stopping. No police came during all that time.

I hope this poor guy survived but I really doubt he will survive as normal human being again. These Thai guys do not have much individual or independent consciousness or thinking ability, when one of their pals started to pound on one man, and rest of the hord will follow without knowing why. I have seen so many senseless viscious bar fights among Thai guys and all happen like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was one of the Farang guys trying to stop the idiot security, it was all over 120 baht!!!! They were giving the staff some grief but he didn't deserve the beating he got!!

[bendix]

I'm not saying he deserved to be beaten, but frankly it's a bit hard to feel sympathy for him.

Let's see. He gets pissed and he's got no money to pay for the drink. What happened? Did he forget his wallet but go out on the piss, ordering more beers knowingly? Classy. Then he gives the staff some hassle. Nice one, fella.

What makes him think that, as a visitor to this country, he can behave like that? Is it because he's white and thinks that different rules apply to him? Doesnt he have to behave decently, with respect to his hosts, or can he just do what he likes because . . well, he's white and he's on holiday, innit?

There is such a thing as respect. Respect for yourself and respect for your surroundings. Sounds like he had neither.

[aaaaaa]

I agree with those who don't support histerical generalising and soberly compare things here and elsewhere....

however I think it is worth pointing out the fact that Thais don't realy LOVE farangs (despite latest trend of those stickers on cabs or signs on karaoke bars) - merely tolerate them. despite known statisticval fact of average IQ (widely and multiply discussed on TV as well) they are smart enough to know that if they create an unbearable athmosphere - something like real VIOLENT INFERNO - farangs simply would stop to come here, which means can't make money out of them any more. so, they tolerate to some extent whatever nonsense and misbehavior and even bad things farang might do.

friend of mine , French who live here many years and fluent in Thai, has told me that he has spoken to some old thai lady, a teacher , somehwere in Isaan I guess. she had shared with him memories of those days of Vietnam war and after it, with all the comunist guerilla stuff going on all over Indochina ... so, a lot of american military were based over there. this lady said it was like horror times. she witnessed herself that some soldiers would select woman they like right on the street in bright day light, snatch her hair and pull to force her to come with him / them; and some would even rape on the street itself. no any thai police or military - or obviously anyone else - would be able to do anything about it.

so, he said that the image , although might be generalised and stereotyped (like - all farangs are american or all american are soldiers or all soldiers are rapists; or all farangs are drunk yobs and/ or sex-tourists etc.) is still there - people remember bad things better than good, this is a fact everywhere anytime in the world.

so, perhaps Thailand might be not so openly hostile to white men as some other places in Asia, but neither it is so genuinely friendly all the time to all farangs. yes, Thais helped foreigner touristss in tsunami unlike in similar disaster in N. Orleans ... but they don't are not so very fond of them - at least not more than the source of steady cash inflow or genetic fund supply (yeah, sort of too sophisticated way to say that thai girls obsessed with white skin color prefer their kids to have fairer skin - very common reason for marriages, funny enough not that love or whatever else as main reason )

so, once in a while their real attitude surfaces, surpassing all the traditional bariers of politeness, tolerance, "loose face" concept etc. and yes, police is inert. in fact to farang they might show some sort of support or condolense; among themselves most often they'd comment that anyway farangs are generally trouble makers, indignant and intlerant and arrogant ... many times on public bus the conductor would try to prevent farang to get on the bus, saying something like bus will not go to wherever farang wanna go (even though bus would go there) - because this conductor doesn't like agressive (as they view it, and often it is) and demanding style farang behaves himself; so, it is easier to generalise on assumption that all farangs are such - and simply try to avoid having him on the bus.

last week my friend told me a story. he went to some internet cafe where a lot of teens spent almost all their free time, even if it is instead of going to school... as usually there was a lot of noise and disturbance. he asked to boys on both sides of him to try make less noise, or at least perhaps to change their places so that they could sit together and talk to each other as much as they want, not with him in between and need to shout... woman who worked in internet cafe made them to change place. half an hour later while my friend was still busy doing his e-mails, someone slaped him hard on the head from behind ..... yeah, more shoking than painfull - and he saw one of teen quickly going out of the door, and as soon he saw they this farang saw him - he run away. this guy complained to the stuff - &lt;deleted&gt; ? girl called the owner lady, they apologised a lot and asked who is culprit. anyway, my friend went back to his computer and after half an hour os so finished his work, paid and left; while walking some distance from that place, he heard sound of somebody running. he turned too late - someone once more hit him HARD in the head - he turned around and saw those two very same boys staying there, one holding belt in his hand. he tried to chase them and catch at least one to take to police, as many of people who witnessed suggested - but teens run much faster than middle aged man. nothing happened. only deep frustration and embarrasment, yeah, and anger for being asulted so cowardly and shamelessly from behind - not even street dogs would be treated so.

after he told me this I thought: well, what to expect? yeah, it wasn't such a vicious attack as described in OP. however the similar thing is in it : these young people DON'T CARE a bit what and how they do, slap of stab or kill; no concern about respect or what is right or wrong - because mostly they don;t even think beyond momentarily impulse of whatever feeling they have right then - anger or "loose face" or greed / envy (to take money from farang) or simply bravado and seeking of sanook (to show off to friends how I can punch / brutalise / whatever - farang)... they often remind me more of stray dogs - same animalistic instincts at work, dog simply can't tolerate passer by, and being afraid of attacking openly, would try to do that from behind... even simply for the sake of making that person unnerved or scared or ... aware of who is the boss around there. not even serious enough reason like - to rob or whatever.

they grow up with almost zero attention or attendence from their parents and teachers; all education they get is from thos places they spend most of their awake time - in those internet cafes... they have no slightest concept of respect or what is ok or not. and similarly those elders like their parents and whoever else was watching whole scene - they have very same reasons (as those by which they prefer their kids "go play" LAN games rather then tolerating their presence at home or, God forbid, doing something to teach them basic norms of behaviour and values in life) to not bother with or totally ignore or even oppose such farang, may be even some of them actually said to those two boys: go, show him once more, so that he doesn't come here anymore, because all farangs after all only make troubles, the less they are around - the better. and according to situation, more or less this kind of attitude prevails over other .

so, it is complex thing - only one opinion can't be right here or perfectly cover it and offer best solution. because while violence and other things are same everywhere in the world, there are these and few other aspects typical for this country too. one of which - thais don't realy like farangs, or at least all thais all farangs; on individual level when people know each other - these things might change; in general, on average - when thai look at farang on the street, not realy that many would genuinly even see him as a personality, with individual set of values, norms of behavior and ways of conduct, or beyond his skind color which naturally suggests his origin AND comparatively fatter than their wallet....

[Scott]

I've been here nearly 20 years and the city has become disproprtionately more dangerous over time. For many years, there wasn't much violent crime against foreigners. In the neighborhood where I lived downtown, there were more scams than I can name and some very creative folks at getting money from people. There was the occasional pickpocket incident by a couple of people--and more frequently people whose wallet seemed to get emptied of it's money and was laying under their chair.

In the past 5-8 years, I've come across more and more incidents of people being viciously beaten and a nearly empty backpack taken. I know of people who've spent many weeks in hospital.

These were people who were in reasonably public places--not some dark soi, not late at night. They had no enemies and nothing really worth stealing. To get their bag/wallet etc. They didn't require a severe beating.

It's a little scary. And yes, of course, other places are just as dangerous or more so. I do miss, the kinder more conning BKK of old.

[Shaolin Bushido]

There are really so many vicious attacks against foriegners on the streets of Bangkok recently. One is that another foriegn student at Bangkok University International Division has been stabbed and beat to death on the street. It happened on last Saturday night at Ratchada and Rama 9 intersection. The victim and another foriegn student who was ridding a motorbike was stopping at the red light. All the sudden hords of motorbike kiddy gangs came from behind and stopped at the red light as well and some got off the started stabbing the victim for fun who was a passenger with machetes and knives and beat him with bats on the ground. The survivor who was ridding the bike suffered some injuries said the whole attack last only seconds and the gangs sped away.

The victim died in hospital. And survivor said he is so surprised that the Thai police did not contact him about the murder at all and show absolutely no interest in this case. He said he will try to make the case publicly somehow since police show no interest to solve this kind of motor bike random killing cases because a police told him they see this every night and used to it.

Another case happened right in front of my eyes. It happened in the back of Kao San Road last week or so. A place called Bangkok Bar. I was drinking with 2 friends next to the bar then suddenly saw all the securities were beating the ###### out of a foreign guy. He was covered with blood and lied unconscious on the street and these bar securities still no stop and continued to kick him on the face and his head. From what I saw the guy's face is disfigured by all the kicking. No one help and no police came for another 1 hour or so. And finally a rescue truck came and took the motionless body. I observed the police did not even do anything and did not even question these bar securities who involved in the street lynching that may have take his life or very close to it.

Later I asked a foriegn guy who was in the pub what happened. He told me this poor guy was so drunk and have no money in his pocket to pay for his bill. So one security guy started to hit his head and face and then all of them followed and hit and  kick this poor man's face and head for next 30 minutes as he lied motionless on the street without stopping. No police came during all that time.

I hope this poor guy survived but I really doubt he will survive as normal human being again. These Thai guys do not have much individual or independent consciousness or thinking ability, when one of their pals started to pound on one man, and rest of the hord will follow without knowing why. I have seen so many senseless viscious bar fights among Thai guys and all happen like this.

The other case is that a friend of my good friend. He just came to Thailand from Sweden on his second trip to Bangkok. He was taking out money at a ATM near On Nut about 8 PM. Suddenly some thugs smacked his head from behind. He dropped his withdrawn money and his ATM card but was able to run dizzily away to the street and got a taxi and ran away. He suffered massive blow to the head and went to hospital to get a scan. But luckily did not suffer internal bleeding. And rested in his hotel for almost all week before flying back to Stockholm.

Bangkok crime is getting more vicious recent years. Years ago most foriegners only involved in shopping scams or pick pockets, but recently the violent crimes againt foriegners have escalated to a viscious level and almost on a everyday basis. And police do not care at all for some beating of foreigners on the street or in a pub or even get killed randomly by motorcycle gangs on the major public street like Ratchada.

Because of the police and goverment inability and empathy, these street thugs including these low scum bar securities will strike again anywhere anytime against any foreigner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just ... "WOW". Need to rethink that trip.

[Shaolin Bushido]

There are really so many vicious attacks against foriegners on the streets of Bangkok recently. One is that another foriegn student at Bangkok University International Division has been stabbed and beat to death on the street. It happened on last Saturday night at Ratchada and Rama 9 intersection. The victim and another foriegn student who was ridding a motorbike was stopping at the red light. All the sudden hords of motorbike kiddy gangs came from behind and stopped at the red light as well and some got off the started stabbing the victim for fun who was a passenger with machetes and knives and beat him with bats on the ground. The survivor who was ridding the bike suffered some injuries said the whole attack last only seconds and the gangs sped away.

The victim died in hospital. And survivor said he is so surprised that the Thai police did not contact him about the murder at all and show absolutely no interest in this case. He said he will try to make the case publicly somehow since police show no interest to solve this kind of motor bike random killing cases because a police told him they see this every night and used to it.

Another case happened right in front of my eyes. It happened in the back of Kao San Road last week or so. A place called Bangkok Bar. I was drinking with 2 friends next to the bar then suddenly saw all the securities were beating the ###### out of a foreign guy. He was covered with blood and lied unconscious on the street and these bar securities still no stop and continued to kick him on the face and his head. From what I saw the guy's face is disfigured by all the kicking. No one help and no police came for another 1 hour or so. And finally a rescue truck came and took the motionless body. I observed the police did not even do anything and did not even question these bar securities who involved in the street lynching that may have take his life or very close to it.

Later I asked a foriegn guy who was in the pub what happened. He told me this poor guy was so drunk and have no money in his pocket to pay for his bill. So one security guy started to hit his head and face and then all of them followed and hit and  kick this poor man's face and head for next 30 minutes as he lied motionless on the street without stopping. No police came during all that time.

I hope this poor guy survived but I really doubt he will survive as normal human being again. These Thai guys do not have much individual or independent consciousness or thinking ability, when one of their pals started to pound on one man, and rest of the hord will follow without knowing why. I have seen so many senseless viscious bar fights among Thai guys and all happen like this.

The other case is that a friend of my good friend. He just came to Thailand from Sweden on his second trip to Bangkok. He was taking out money at a ATM near On Nut about 8 PM. Suddenly some thugs smacked his head from behind. He dropped his withdrawn money and his ATM card but was able to run dizzily away to the street and got a taxi and ran away. He suffered massive blow to the head and went to hospital to get a scan. But luckily did not suffer internal bleeding. And rested in his hotel for almost all week before flying back to Stockholm.

Bangkok crime is getting more vicious recent years. Years ago most foriegners only involved in shopping scams or pick pockets, but recently the violent crimes againt foriegners have escalated to a viscious level and almost on a everyday basis. And police do not care at all for some beating of foreigners on the street or in a pub or even get killed randomly by motorcycle gangs on the major public street like Ratchada.

Because of the police and goverment inability and empathy, these street thugs including these low scum bar securities will strike again anywhere anytime against any foreigner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jeez. It's starting to sound like London, or New York or Los Ageles or Much-wilting-on-the-hill, or..........................well just about anywhere you go in the world these days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally speaking, too much alcohol ends this way anywhere in the world. Every time I ever ended up in big crap it was related to alcohol. Thank God, I got over the novelty of that vice.

[baht&sold]

Generally speaking, too much alcohol ends this way anywhere in the world.  Every time I ever ended up in big crap it was related to alcohol.  Thank God, I got over the novelty of that vice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have spoken wise and true Grasshopper... you are a true Shaolin and may now venture out into the "Bangkok At Night, Violent Inferno" without undue fear of "countless attacks to foriengers recently"...

The rest of you drunkards, listen to Shaolin, plus show a little common sense and try to enjoy the 'viloent inferno' fer cryin out loud! Random acts can happen anywhere and do. One can reduce the randomness tho...

[meadish_sweetball]

I don't immediately discredit that people have been exposed to random violence, sometimes with fatal outcomes. The essence of what Dannishgung wrote may well be true, but I think the conclusions are drawn too far - (let's not even consider the headline, because it is plainly ridiculous).

There is a bit of a moral shift taking place within Thai society, starting from Bangkok, following a major, maddeningly rapid shift of lifestyle for the average Thai.

I would not be surprised if the crime rate actually has gone up a bit since 1997 - following the Asian crisis, 1 out of 3 people were unemployed (which means the necessary supplementary income for millions and millions of people was disrupted), and despite the turnaround in economic growth since then, the massive displacement of people caused by the crisis (unprecendented in any Western country I know since at least the Second World War) is bound to have had repercussions.

Random violence is just that - *random* violence. As an individual there is not that much you can do about it. Carrying a gun is not necessarily a solution, and is probably a greater risk in itself than becoming the target of random violence.

Based purely on my own experience and the people I have talked to during 15 years' relation to Thailand, the risk of being the target of random violence is very small, especially if you stay away from heavy drinking, drugs and known risk areas. On the other hand, an average Friday or Saturday night back home in my home town more or less inevitably means somebody gets into a fight.

Like I said, all the cases of violence I have personally witnessed here have been motivated by the target behaving in a threatening or intimidating way - screaming, cursing or being violent; groping a woman; walking up to somebody with the clear intention of picking a fight; waving a gun; waking up an entire guest house by screaming curses at the night guard, etc... Anyone who is too stupid to understand that this kind of behaviour means 'I am prepared to fight you', I feel little sympathy for - they have not bothered to understand the culture they are in, or have failed to listen to the advice smarter people than themselves no doubt have tried to give them.

The above rant is not directed against targets of random acts of violence; I just wish I or any of my family never end up in such a situation... you have all my sympathy.

As for the Thai attitude against farang, all I can say is that I keep meeting all sorts of attitudes from different Thai people.

Many do have a big problem with farang who are too loud or too direct in their speech and who do not show respect for Thai customs and beliefs. Toning this down can do wonders for how people perceive you. Then, of course, there are xenophobes and racists among the Thais as well; I have met a few. Normally, though, Thai xenophobia is more directed towards people of darker skin colour.

On the whole, after 15 years, I find that most Thais I meet are friendly and helpful, more so than my own countrymen. But then I tend to avoid seedy places... where nobody should expect people to be friendly and helpful.

[AlexLah]

Hi All,

I just go to one place when I wanna go out and drink a bit.

All people know me (Thai, Japanese and others) and are very kind.

When it is time to go I just take a taxi and go, not stroll around after closing time.

I know when I walk back some people make remarks but I just do not react on it.

Mostly that will help to keep you out of troubles.

Kind regards,

Alex

[dantilley]

I know when I walk back some people make remarks but I just do not react on it.

Mostly that will help to keep you out of troubles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean by people making remarks? Do you mean random people on the street saying threataning stuff to you? Because I've never encountered anything of the sort while walking around Bangkok (thankfully). I'd be interested to hear about this...

[eivind]

There are really so many vicious attacks against foriegners on the streets of Bangkok recently. One is that another foriegn student at Bangkok University International Division has been stabbed and beat to death on the street. It happened on last Saturday night at Ratchada and Rama 9 intersection. The victim and another foriegn student who was ridding a motorbike was stopping at the red light. All the sudden hords of motorbike kiddy gangs came from behind and stopped at the red light as well and some got off the started stabbing the victim for fun who was a passenger with machetes and knives and beat him with bats on the ground. The survivor who was ridding the bike suffered some injuries said the whole attack last only seconds and the gangs sped away.

The victim died in hospital. And survivor said he is so surprised that the Thai police did not contact him about the murder at all and show absolutely no interest in this case. He said he will try to make the case publicly somehow since police show no interest to solve this kind of motor bike random killing cases because a police told him they see this every night and used to it.

Another case happened right in front of my eyes. It happened in the back of Kao San Road last week or so. A place called Bangkok Bar. I was drinking with 2 friends next to the bar then suddenly saw all the securities were beating the ###### out of a foreign guy. He was covered with blood and lied unconscious on the street and these bar securities still no stop and continued to kick him on the face and his head. From what I saw the guy's face is disfigured by all the kicking. No one help and no police came for another 1 hour or so. And finally a rescue truck came and took the motionless body. I observed the police did not even do anything and did not even question these bar securities who involved in the street lynching that may have take his life or very close to it.

Later I asked a foriegn guy who was in the pub what happened. He told me this poor guy was so drunk and have no money in his pocket to pay for his bill. So one security guy started to hit his head and face and then all of them followed and hit and  kick this poor man's face and head for next 30 minutes as he lied motionless on the street without stopping. No police came during all that time.

I hope this poor guy survived but I really doubt he will survive as normal human being again. These Thai guys do not have much individual or independent consciousness or thinking ability, when one of their pals started to pound on one man, and rest of the hord will follow without knowing why. I have seen so many senseless viscious bar fights among Thai guys and all happen like this.

The other case is that a friend of my good friend. He just came to Thailand from Sweden on his second trip to Bangkok. He was taking out money at a ATM near On Nut about 8 PM. Suddenly some thugs smacked his head from behind. He dropped his withdrawn money and his ATM card but was able to run dizzily away to the street and got a taxi and ran away. He suffered massive blow to the head and went to hospital to get a scan. But luckily did not suffer internal bleeding. And rested in his hotel for almost all week before flying back to Stockholm.

Bangkok crime is getting more vicious recent years. Years ago most foriegners only involved in shopping scams or pick pockets, but recently the violent crimes againt foriegners have escalated to a viscious level and almost on a everyday basis. And police do not care at all for some beating of foreigners on the street or in a pub or even get killed randomly by motorcycle gangs on the major public street like Ratchada.

Because of the police and goverment inability and empathy, these street thugs including these low scum bar securities will strike again anywhere anytime against any foreigner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I recall there was a article in Bangkok Post 'bout the killing incident (foreign passenger on the motorbike stabbed to death). The police investigated the case and arrested a couple of young gangsters. There is a clear government policy in Thailand that tourists shall feel safe when they are here.

I have lived in Bangkok only a month (have lived in Isan a half year), but I have visited the metropol a number of times. I have NEVER experienced trouble!

Last month I was in a bar in Soi Cowboy (Toy Bar). After some hours I discovered I had lost my VISA card. The cash-hostess got irritated and called a security guy. He just smiled to me (he was about my age, 50) and asked if I could call someone to take the bill. I couldn't. Instead I offered my passport and the case was solved. After the weekend I went to VISA and got a new VISA-card, took out money and went to the bar and payed the bill. They even reduced the bill with almost 1000 bath because they'd discovered the total was wrong!

I agree with most of the writers here. When you live in a big town anything can happen! Just don't be drunk & stupid and NEVER insult a thai male. There is a culture here for "not loosing face" and that you have to take VERY seriously.

In Isan each saturday there are several clashes between youngsters from different villages. A young friend of mine had to spend a month in jail for beating up another young guy. The judicial system works in Thailand as elsewhere in the world, but of course, if you visit Patpong in the night you must expect everything. Many of the security guys down there are former policemen with VERY good contacts within the force.

[eivind]

There's no law in this country, not in the "western" sense. If you have to deal with the police you might get lucky and get all cooperation, or you might get a cold shoulder and "it's your problem, not mine" attitude.

People, including the police, will not stand for what is right, they will stand for WHO is right. Everyone should be aware of this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said and a point worth keeping in mind.

Westerners instinctively believe in rule of law and the fairness of law enforcement authorities even if they've never thought about it much. Part of the foreigner's exposure here in Thailand is that, should something untoward happen, the foreigner will not be treated by authorities in an even handed manner. Of course, the New York cops can treat visitors differently, too, but as a rule, everyone is treated more or less equally badly. That's just not true in Thailand. As a foreigner, if you are involved in any incident, you're on your own. And good luck to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I regret to say it, but this is just b.s. Full of prejudice and whatever worse. Police I've met in different circumstances, even trying to help some stupid drunken farangs (in Pattaya some years ago), were polite and decent. But I try not to loose control when I are out having some beers.

[Firefan]

Dan; maybe he means "handsome maaan! Where you go?" I get plenty of those remarks too...

I know when I walk back some people make remarks but I just do not react on it.

Mostly that will help to keep you out of troubles.

What do you mean by people making remarks? Do you mean random people on the street saying threataning stuff to you? Because I've never encountered anything of the sort while walking around Bangkok (thankfully). I'd be interested to hear about this...

[dantilley]

Dan; maybe he means "handsome maaan! Where you go?" I get plenty of those remarks too... 

Hey, that's strange - I get girls saying that to me to! I wonder if they're serious?

Guess I should try sitting with them some time and find out...

[mai_reuh]

sure, you can get yourself into trouble if you want, but I still think of all the cities in the world I have been to, that BKK is the safest.

Safer than many cities in Australia...

[bronze]

If there's a big rise in crime against farang you can pretty well bet it's across the board but Thais not so publicised... - well.. maybe just look at front page of Thai Rath.

The world is in general becoming more violent (see BBC for chip throwing incident in Islington, London).

BUT am I the only one to notice this? Doesn't it seem to be that half the populations of certain neighbouring countries have come to Thailand. I have lived in Chiang Mai for many years and you walk down any street and hear people  talking .. its not Thai or English and not even any of the more local hilltribe languages. There is a huge influx of people coming into the country, some legally and some not.

The numbers are astounding. The next stop after Chiang Mai for many is Bangkok which pays slightly better for labour. I have seen and heard of case after case. Some of these people have Baat Dang Dao and some have nothing.

This is certainly fuelling the crime situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is Baat Dang Dao?

[Richard Hall]

What is Baat Dang Dao?

Foreigner ID card handed to temporary workers from neighbouring countries upon registration.

[hoochie coochie man]

At the end of the day, anywhere in Thailand is safer than just about anywhere else. Sure there is more crime with this administrations rush to sell out to big business. Corporate feudalism breeds crime - look at America - where the entrenchment of big corporations is more than anywhere else and also most violent country on earth. In thailand the peace love and happiness vibe still prevails even beyond the ear's reach of a flow concert.

[alesypalsy]

Thailand for me is one of or even the safest countrys on gods earth, In the UK now some places in the citys like london,manchester,birmingham to name but a few have areas where if you walk you are asking for trouble, its out of control in some places, Bangkok is the most welcoming city I have ever been to, i have been drunk many a time and strolled down dark areas with no problems at all, I would not do the same in a place like Manila for example, The thai's are so welcoming, They have their ways some of us will never understand but as a race on the whole they are not violent people. On my trip to buri ram I must say the people there were the most welcoming I have ever met in my whole life, strangers at the bus stop offering me a chicken leg and on the whole it was such a lovely experiance I will never forget. I understand that care be taken at all times anywhere in the world but come on, if Thailand was that bad there would not be the amount of farangs there as there is.

Kind regards

my 1 bahts worth

[LostBrit]

I would just like to add to this situation , that i have never felt safer among people in my whole life more than i have in Thailand this place is one of the safest places in the world, actually thais are very welcoming where-ever u may come from.

i just tend to smile as much as i can and get the same and maybe more in return

quiete an experience...