Oh and just so you know, my 75 year old dad is one of the most adaptive people I know and he doesn't sit there and bemoan today's youth. He thinks anyone with a brain has something of value to offer regardless of their age and he is more than willing to have my 14 year old nephew teach him new things.

Sorry, but just because an argument is old and tired doesn't lend it validity. And just because someone is older doesn't mean they have any brains. Older people have been complaining about younger people for aeons, its called the inability to adapt and change and the norm for older people to somehow view themselves as smarter and better simply because their way is the way it was always done. I don't subscribe to that theory and think its rooted in a resistance to new ideas and new ways of looking at things rather than any superior intelligence or knowledge.

I agree with you completely, but I must confess I have some difficulty accepting some of the younger generation's trends these days.

In fact, some of their trends I think are downright silly and dangerous, and I think I would be foolish to accept them for the sake of being adaptable.

Sorry, but just because an argument is old and tired doesn't lend it validity. And just because someone is older doesn't mean they have any brains. Older people have been complaining about younger people for aeons, its called the inability to adapt and change and the norm for older people to somehow view themselves as smarter and better simply because their way is the way it was always done. I don't subscribe to that theory and think its rooted in a resistance to new ideas and new ways of looking at things rather than any superior intelligence or knowledge.

I agree with you completely, but I must confess I have some difficulty accepting some of the younger generation's trends these days.

In fact, some of their trends I think are downright silly and dangerous, and I think I would be foolish to accept them for the sake of being adaptable.

You mean, like drag racing in the 50s? Every generation does foolish stuff. Heck a good look at Thaivisa shows its not limited to age either

Sorry, but just because an argument is old and tired doesn't lend it validity. And just because someone is older doesn't mean they have any brains. Older people have been complaining about younger people for aeons, its called the inability to adapt and change and the norm for older people to somehow view themselves as smarter and better simply because their way is the way it was always done. I don't subscribe to that theory and think its rooted in a resistance to new ideas and new ways of looking at things rather than any superior intelligence or knowledge.

Actually, I think it relates mor eto the foolishness of youth, and possibly a greater propensity to gossip and take an interest in other people's affairs by the older generations.

So in fact, every generation, when in its youth, does equally silly and anti-social things; but is not offended by them when it does so, and therefore does not particularly remember them; nor take an interest in the other silly things that other young people do, since their own lives are intersting enough. So they have relatively few silly anecdotes from their youth.

Then, as they become older, they start to hear of the silly antics of their children, and neighbours' children, and so forth, and are offended by those silly and antisocial activities, in a way that they were not offended, when themselves youths, by very similar activities. And they have no knowledge of the silly things that their own parents had done when they in turn were young; and thus they conclude that the youth of today is worse than ever.

Now, having formed a hypothesis as to why people hold a view, we can examine whether that hypothesis is true or not, and then, in conjunction perhaps with some evidencial statistics (for example, court records of misdemeanours going back hundreds of years, more rigorous anecdotal evidence) we coud then conclude that the opinion we were arguing against was unjustified.

But arguing that something is not true simply because people have believed it for a long time is not sound or rigorous logic. (ha ha - of course, I am being slightly duplicitous there, because people have not believed the original claim for a long time - people only believe it in their elder years; since antiquity, different people have held that belief in turn for a relatively short time; then, when they see the antics of their grandchildren, they realise that their own children were just the same, and they stop holding the belief in question. But they don't feel moved to write anything on the topic, since acceptance is a less vigorous emotion than moral indignation.

When we argue that the world is round, rather than flat, we need also to consider why people believe that the world is flat, and why the evidence indicates that the world is more or less flat.

For most of my day to day activities, I act as if the world was flat, or nearly enough so. Airline navigators probably do not - at least in their professional work.

SC

PS: Sorry - I lack time to go back and thoroughly iron out all the logic and tidy up the wording

Oh and just so you know, my 75 year old dad is one of the most adaptive people I know and he doesn't sit there and bemoan today's youth. He thinks anyone with a brain has something of value to offer regardless of their age and he is more than willing to have my 14 year old nephew teach him new things.

Of course us creepy old guys need the young-ns to teach us a thing or two. Who else is going to program our cel phone and I-pod so it's useable? And, just how DO you save programs on the television VCR or DVD player?

Sorry, but just because an argument is old and tired doesn't lend it validity. And just because someone is older doesn't mean they have any brains. Older people have been complaining about younger people for aeons, its called the inability to adapt and change and the norm for older people to somehow view themselves as smarter and better simply because their way is the way it was always done. I don't subscribe to that theory and think its rooted in a resistance to new ideas and new ways of looking at things rather than any superior intelligence or knowledge.

Actually, I think it relates mor eto the foolishness of youth, and possibly a greater propensity to gossip and take an interest in other people's affairs by the older generations.

So in fact, every generation, when in its youth, does equally silly and anti-social things; but is not offended by them when it does so, and therefore does not particularly remember them; nor take an interest in the other silly things that other young people do, since their own lives are intersting enough. So they have relatively few silly anecdotes from their youth.

Then, as they become older, they start to hear of the silly antics of their children, and neighbours' children, and so forth, and are offended by those silly and antisocial activities, in a way that they were not offended, when themselves youths, by very similar activities. And they have no knowledge of the silly things that their own parents had done when they in turn were young; and thus they conclude that the youth of today is worse than ever.

Now, having formed a hypothesis as to why people hold a view, we can examine whether that hypothesis is true or not, and then, in conjunction perhaps with some evidencial statistics (for example, court records of misdemeanours going back hundreds of years, more rigorous anecdotal evidence) we coud then conclude that the opinion we were arguing against was unjustified.

But arguing that something is not true simply because people have believed it for a long time is not sound or rigorous logic. (ha ha - of course, I am being slightly duplicitous there, because people have not believed the original claim for a long time - people only believe it in their elder years; since antiquity, different people have held that belief in turn for a relatively short time; then, when they see the antics of their grandchildren, they realise that their own children were just the same, and they stop holding the belief in question. But they don't feel moved to write anything on the topic, since acceptance is a less vigorous emotion than moral indignation.

When we argue that the world is round, rather than flat, we need also to consider why people believe that the world is flat, and why the evidence indicates that the world is more or less flat.

For most of my day to day activities, I act as if the world was flat, or nearly enough so. Airline navigators probably do not - at least in their professional work.

SC

PS: Sorry - I lack time to go back and thoroughly iron out all the logic and tidy up the wording

cor !!!............... Just like reading "The Guardian"

Sorry, but just because an argument is old and tired doesn't lend it validity. And just because someone is older doesn't mean they have any brains. Older people have been complaining about younger people for aeons, its called the inability to adapt and change and the norm for older people to somehow view themselves as smarter and better simply because their way is the way it was always done. I don't subscribe to that theory and think its rooted in a resistance to new ideas and new ways of looking at things rather than any superior intelligence or knowledge.

I agree with you completely, but I must confess I have some difficulty accepting some of the younger generation's trends these days.

In fact, some of their trends I think are downright silly and dangerous, and I think I would be foolish to accept them for the sake of being adaptable.

You mean, like drag racing in the 50s? Every generation does foolish stuff. Heck a good look at Thaivisa shows its not limited to age either

Sure....and I did my foolish stunts too.....that does not mean that I should condone. let alone adapt to, today's foolishness.

Isn't there a responsibility with the wisdom of age?

And where did you get the idea I was saying to adapt foolish notions? <deleted> this is the most annoying thing about this place. Please read what I wrote instead of making your own half-thought out assumptions based on god only knows what, cheers.

If it helps, most of my half thought out notions are based on whiskey

And where did you get the idea I was saying to adapt foolish notions? <deleted> this is the most annoying thing about this place. Please read what I wrote instead of making your own half-thought out assumptions based on god only knows what, cheers.

<deleted> yourself....this is the most annoying thing about this place that mods can post as mere members but will not tolerate argument when doing so.

Read back more than one post of yours and mine.....if you can't see where I "got the idea", then I can see why you get so frustrated.

Please enlighten me then, because for the life of me I don't recall posting that people should adapt foolish notions. and puleeze do not pull the mod card on me, here I was clearly posting as a member, and responded as one.

If it helps, most of my half thought out notions are based on whiskey

And there was me thinking they were entirely without foundation.

A wise man builds his house on the rock. There's not much space there, so it would have to be tall and thin. And if you put a great lamp on top, you could find it on the way home from the pub. Thanks to this enlightenment, such houses became known as 'light houses', and are still known as such today.

SC

If it helps, most of my half thought out notions are based on whiskey

And there was me thinking they were entirely without foundation.

A wise man builds his house on the rock. There's not much space there, so it would have to be tall and thin. And if you put a great lamp on top, you could find it on the way home from the pub. Thanks to this enlightenment, such houses became known as 'light houses', and are still known as such today.

SC

Not a lot of people knew that..........

If it helps, most of my half thought out notions are based on whiskey

And there was me thinking they were entirely without foundation.

A wise man builds his house on the rock. There's not much space there, so it would have to be tall and thin. And if you put a great lamp on top, you could find it on the way home from the pub. Thanks to this enlightenment, such houses became known as 'light houses', and are still known as such today.

SC

Not a lot of people knew that..........

I expect wikipedia will pick up on it soon, and we'll have rolled ignorance back out another inch

SC

I've always enjoyed piety.

I've always enjoyed piety.

Top nonsequitor. Possibly needs subtitles for the slow-witted.

A nice piety and beanstie and a pint of stoutie; just like grandad used to enjoy.

SC

I like the sound of your grandad..........

I like the sound of your grandad..........

He's maybe a bit old for you. and dead. But beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.

'Young people don't know how to enjoy themselves these days. That's not music, its just noise. And what kind of a frock is that to go out in at night?'

Mind, that was thirty years ago now.

On the topic of inflation and having to pay to use the washrooms in the railway station

"Four shillings? In my young day you'd only pay a farthing for a thrupenny bit"

SC

I like the sound of your grandad..........

He's maybe a bit old for you. and dead. But beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.

'Young people don't know how to enjoy themselves these days. That's not music, its just noise. And what kind of a frock is that to go out in at night?'

Mind, that was thirty years ago now.

On the topic of inflation and having to pay to use the washrooms in the railway station

"Four shillings? In my young day you'd only pay a farthing for a thrupenny bit"

SC

A tad crass about your loved one there old boy.................

I have to disagree with the OP. I grew up in the baby boomer generation and we had to be the scariest bunch of kids on earth. Just the sheer numbers of us were scary. Think of our parents who had to worry about drugs--and that was something they knew nothing about. We killed ourselves in vehicles at an alarming rate, we drank to excess, we smoked dope, dropped acid, took speed. We had rock concerts that were at the time the biggest gatherings on earth. We ran around with our clothes off, had sex with anyone and everyone and when we put our horrible clothes back on we scared the living hell out of the older generation. We were totally out of control. And that was when we were having fun. Take our fun away and we got really surly.

No, the kids today are meeker, better behaved and pretty respectful. And if they aren't, guess what generation raised them.

I have to disagree with the OP. I grew up in the baby boomer generation and we had to be the scariest bunch of kids on earth. Just the sheer numbers of us were scary. Think of our parents who had to worry about drugs--and that was something they knew nothing about. We killed ourselves in vehicles at an alarming rate, we drank to excess, we smoked dope, dropped acid, took speed. We had rock concerts that were at the time the biggest gatherings on earth. We ran around with our clothes off, had sex with anyone and everyone and when we put our horrible clothes back on we scared the living hell out of the older generation. We were totally out of control. And that was when we were having fun. Take our fun away and we got really surly.

No, the kids today are meeker, better behaved and pretty respectful. And if they aren't, guess what generation raised them.

There's no need for me to write that autobiography now. My early life has just been described to perfection (apart from the killing myself in a vehicle bit although I did have one or two spectacular accidents).

I have to disagree with the OP. I grew up in the baby boomer generation and we had to be the scariest bunch of kids on earth. Just the sheer numbers of us were scary. Think of our parents who had to worry about drugs--and that was something they knew nothing about. We killed ourselves in vehicles at an alarming rate, we drank to excess, we smoked dope, dropped acid, took speed. We had rock concerts that were at the time the biggest gatherings on earth. We ran around with our clothes off, had sex with anyone and everyone and when we put our horrible clothes back on we scared the living hell out of the older generation. We were totally out of control. And that was when we were having fun. Take our fun away and we got really surly.

No, the kids today are meeker, better behaved and pretty respectful. And if they aren't, guess what generation raised them.

You forgot to mention the reckless fiscal impropriety that burdened your descendents with inflated prices, crippling debt and unfunded pension and medical obligations; the rest was your own business.

SC

Streetcowboy: Your point is made, but we had a bit of help from the previous generation. They made the road toward irresponsibility, but we paved it.

At that time, the world was our oyster. I don't remember hearing the word 'shortage' until around the mid-70's (Saudi Oil Embargo) and then it was embargo not shortage. The world was awash with oil and energy, food was in surplus, some nasty and scary diseases were preventable and treatable (polio). There was plenty of uncultivated land and it was generally believed that the oceans had an inexhaustible supply of fish. The Great Depression was long past, and it appeared that up was the only direction we could go.

The generation was well educated. University education was cheap and virtually anyone without the funds could get a loan, a grant, and work-study to attend school. Then there was that pesky little Vietnam war which was a BIG motivation for a lot of young men to attend University, a military deferment.

Old people had the decency to die in a timely fashion. The money on research was spent to help the children. The old folks dropped off without becoming much of a burden on society. Remember when the occasional name of someone reaching 100 was on the news? Now, it's screw the kids, new drugs for the old folks. More tubes, more things to keep them passably alive.

The young people today have to be satisfied with little things--a mobile phone that is smaller and has more features. A new computer game, a faster internet. They have to work hard in school...much, much harder than I ever did. They may not get to go to University. They have to worry and they have a lot of pressure. They face shortages. Energy is expensive and food stocks regularly dry up....little things like sugar and cooking oil, but bigger things are probably on the way (US grain stocks, for example, at a very low level). Kids can't play outside, unless there within a few meters of their house. And now there are some nasty diseases out there and a whole lot more people to get them.

Great posts, Scott. Weren't the 1960s GREAT! I'm sure our Mark45 has many of those stories as well. I wonder some times just how so many of us survived. I was fortunate that I spent a lot of the 1960s working in logging camps in BC wilderness or I might have spent more time doing more crazy stuff. As it was the logging camps were dangerous places to work. And, if you got silly you got dead. I've still got the scars from near misses.

Great posts, Scott. Weren't the 1960s GREAT! I'm sure our Mark45 has many of those stories as well. I wonder some times just how so many of us survived. I was fortunate that I spent a lot of the 1960s working in logging camps in BC wilderness or I might have spent more time doing more crazy stuff. As it was the logging camps were dangerous places to work. And, if you got silly you got dead. I've still got the scars from near misses.

I've just finished reading John Irving's new book, "Last Night In Twisted River" and a lot of it is set in a logging camp in N.E. USA in the 50s and 60s, and describes log rolling and log driving, getting the logs down the rivers to the saw mills. Absolutely fascinating and very dangerous.

I was involved in saw milling for years but our logs came from plantation forests on flat land, fairly tame compared to that stuff.

Great posts, Scott. Weren't the 1960s GREAT! I'm sure our Mark45 has many of those stories as well. I wonder some times just how so many of us survived. I was fortunate that I spent a lot of the 1960s working in logging camps in BC wilderness or I might have spent more time doing more crazy stuff. As it was the logging camps were dangerous places to work. And, if you got silly you got dead. I've still got the scars from near misses.

I've just finished reading John Irving's new book, "Last Night In Twisted River" and a lot of it is set in a logging camp in N.E. USA in the 50s and 60s, and describes log rolling and log driving, getting the logs down the rivers to the saw mills. Absolutely fascinating and very dangerous.

I was involved in saw milling for years but our logs came from plantation forests on flat land, fairly tame compared to that stuff.

Go on Scea....post that photo of you as a skinny youth beside a big log.

Robert Plant sang a song about it.................

Please enlighten me then, because for the life of me I don't recall posting that people should adapt foolish notions. and puleeze do not pull the mod card on me, here I was clearly posting as a member, and responded as one.

I was going to ignore it, but since you are intent on disagreeing (seemingly) for the sake of disagreeing, I will respond.....and it has nothing to do with the chip on my shoulder over your previous lie (broken promise).......

Post 32 I agree with you, but qualify with respect to the silly dangerous stuff of today's youth.

In post 33, you respond (rather irrelevantly) by pointing out that silly and dangerous stuff was perpetrated by the previous generation too. (As if two wrongs make a right)....but never mind.

In post 37, I agreed again (conceding that I was once foolish and reckless also). I was saying that MY past silliness does not mean I have to condone today's silliness, and referred to the wisdom that comes with age......TO WHICH you responded rudely ("<deleted>") and illogically.

It appears that you choose to never agree with me, and can not abide by me agreeing with you.

I don't mind your bias.......but please don't be uncivil if I don't deserve it.

Since you chose to take this public, you know what my bias is? People who interpret my posts as if their interpretation were fact. Frankly, I have no bias against you whatsoever. Whatever grudge you may think I have is totally in your head. And to throw in the moderator card when it had not been played just goes to show that the grudge is clearly all yours. Its the internet, I hardly waste my time and energy harboring grudges over a moderation action. If you find me so offensive I suggest that you don't bother replying to my posts.

Well, just to change the subject a bit, the generation I feel for is the ones that grew up during the Great Depression. That sounds like a really crappy time to have been growing up. I don't think too many of them look back on the good 'ol days.