i agree with you, but very much suspect that he is hiding something. My guess is that his long-form birth certificate says that his religion at birth was Muslim - which I personally could care less about, but it would hurt him politically.

religion at birth?

In some places, the parents declare the babies' religion on the birth certificate. Is that too much for you to to process?

His religion is a different topic, really. Trump and others are questioning the legality of his presidency based on his place of birth.

If they want that information, that's what they should ask. If his religion was listed (and I haven't seen a birth certificate that does--kind of goes against a number of issues), it would mean little since he had no say in what was put on his birth certificate. At any rate, as I said it would raise more questions than it would answer.

1) If his father was Muslim then the odds are he was considered Muslim as a child before pop ran off. I doubt he went by "Barry" as a child in Indonesia.

2) I haven't heard the reasons some people think the Hawaii newspaper accounts of his birth aren't legit.

1) If his father was Muslim then the odds are he was considered Muslim as a child before pop ran off. I doubt he went by "Barry" as a child in Indonesia.

2) I haven't heard the reasons some people think the Hawaii newspaper accounts of his birth aren't legit.

I have heard a theory that his grandparents might have called the newspaper and placed the birth ad themselves. Dunno, just a theory.

it's useless to discuss Obama's birth place or religion at birth. he will be out of job come next election because he failed to meet any expectations. the American voters have learned their lesson and will act more wisely.

but even then President Trump and Vice-President Palin will face hard times cleaning up the mess. the easiest job (for starters) will be a fistful of interballistic missiles on Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. that will teach the uppity gooks stealing American Dollars as well as Yewnighted States Treasuries and hoarding them.

"I have heard a theory that his grandparents might have called the newspaper and placed the birth ad themselves. Dunno, just a theory. "

They could have, but why? They had a daughter who was having a child with a black man at a time when that wasn't particularly cool. They certainly didn't have a crystal ball and would think he would one day be president.

"I have heard a theory that his grandparents might have called the newspaper and placed the birth ad themselves. Dunno, just a theory. "

They could have, but why? They had a daughter who was having a child with a black man at a time when that wasn't particularly cool. They certainly didn't have a crystal ball and would think he would one day be president.

My guess a reason might have been an unfamiliarity with citizenship procedures for children of US citizens and thought it best to have a birth announcement in case they ever needed it.

It isn't my theory, it is simply one I have heard being kicked around.

Here is an interesting article I found today. It seems the birther problem began in the Democratic Party, in Hillary Clinton's camp.

________________________________________________________

Birtherism: Where it all began

By BEN SMITH & BYRON TAU | 4/22/11 4:22 AM EDT Updated: 4/22/11 1:06 PM EDT

Just when it appeared that public interest was fading, celebrity developer Donald Trump has revived the theory that President Barack Obama was born overseas and helped expose the depth to which the notion has taken root—a New York Times poll Thursday found that a plurality of Republicans believe it.

If you haven’t been trolling the fever swamps of online conspiracy sites or opening those emails from Uncle Larry, you may well wonder: Where did this idea come from? Who started it? And is there a grain of truth there?

Axelrod blames Fox for birtherism

The answer lies in Democratic, not Republican politics, and in the bitter, exhausting spring of 2008. At the time, the Democratic presidential primary was slipping away from Hillary Clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to Barack Obama.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53563.html#ixzz1KLC2uVy7

Is it not a mute point ? Can't take back the years he's in charge can you...................

Is it not a mute point ? Can't take back the years he's in charge can you...................

Unfortunately, no. But you can preclude him from having any more than the original four.

...."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

Meaning, you still use the Western model for a standard as to what civilised might be.

it's useless to discuss Obama's birth place or religion at birth. he will be out of job come next election because he failed to meet any expectations. the American voters have learned their lesson and will act more wisely.

but even then President Trump and Vice-President Palin will face hard times cleaning up the mess. the easiest job (for starters) will be a fistful of interballistic missiles on Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. that will teach the uppity gooks stealing American Dollars as well as Yewnighted States Treasuries and hoarding them.

Lovely sentiment, indeed. BTW, The Chinese are "chinks", less gooks.

The US needs a governing party and president who WILL get rid of this sort of thing.

If D.T. can put up a logical suggestion / plan, he would reap many votes froom all parties.

WHY OUR COUNTRY IS BROKE???

The bread winner in the family....interesting! Bread Winner...

I was speaking to an emergency room physician this morning. He told me that a woman in her mid-20s came to the ER with her 8th pregnancy.

She stated, "my momma told me that I am the breadwinner for the family."

He asked her to explain.

She said that she can make babies and babies get money for the family.

It goes like this: The grandma calls the Department of Child and Family Services

and states that the unemployed daughter is not capable of caring for these children.

DCFS agrees and states that the child or children will need to go to foster care.

The grandma then volunteers to be the foster parent, and thus receives a check for $1500 per child per month in Illinois .

Total yearly income: $144,000 tax-free,

not to mention free healthcare (Medicaid) plus a monthly card entitling her to

free groceries, etc, and a voucher for 250 free cell phone minutes per month.

This does not even include WIC and other welfare programs...

Indeed, grandma was correct in that her fertile daughter is the "breadwinner" for the family.

This is how the ruling class spends our tax dollars.

Sebastian J. Ciancio, M.D. Urologist, Danville Polyclinic, LTD Is this a GREAT COUNTRY or what... Don't forget to pay your taxes!!! There are a lot of Breadwinners depending on you & me , rock on !!!!!!!!

...."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

Meaning, you still use the Western model for a standard as to what civilised might be.

If you are going to quote me out of context, please quote me accurately, without any changes.

This is actually what I said in my post, which was in reference to one Naam had made. The misquoted post is number 50.

_______________________________________________________

Surprisingly, I agree with your last sentence..."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

_______________________________________________________

In response to your question...Yes, I do.

ZPete: You might want to check out some facts. When a child is placed with a blood relative, the blood relative does not get Foster Care payments. They get Aid to Families with Dependent Children (I believe the name has been changed). This is regular welfare and it is a lot less than $1500 a month. I think your urologist is trying to take the Pee out of you.

Everthing you need to know about Donald Trump:

http://finance.yahoo...=5&asset==

Yes, that all well and done.

But what about his hair? Image is everything, you know.

...."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

Meaning, you still use the Western model for a standard as to what civilised might be.

If you are going to quote me out of context, please quote me accurately, without any changes.

This is actually what I said in my post, which was in reference to one Naam had made. The misquoted post is number 50.

_______________________________________________________

Surprisingly, I agree with your last sentence..."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

_______________________________________________________

In response to your question...Yes, I do.

OK. if so, what makes Western cultures especially civilised?

...."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

Meaning, you still use the Western model for a standard as to what civilised might be.

If you are going to quote me out of context, please quote me accurately, without any changes.

This is actually what I said in my post, which was in reference to one Naam had made. The misquoted post is number 50.

_______________________________________________________

Surprisingly, I agree with your last sentence..."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

_______________________________________________________

In response to your question...Yes, I do.

OK. if so, what makes Western cultures especially civilised?

I hardly think voicing my opinion is likely to change your mindset about much of anything.

Defending my opinion to you is hardly relevant and frankly not worth my time in doing so.

Rather like asking what chocolate ice cream tastes like, isn't it.

Defending an opinion?

Surprisingly, I agree with your last sentence..."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

So what are we (Americans, Europeans, Australians) doing there?

I too doubt that change is more than a thin veneer we are putting on an old society, to be ripped off within five years of the allies leaving Afghanistan, so why are we there?

OK. if so, what makes Western cultures especially civilised?

Have you ever lived anywhere else? If so, then you can answer that question yourself.

OK. if so, what makes Western cultures especially civilised?

Have you ever lived anywhere else? If so, then you can answer that question yourself.

Yet, some might not have the linear thought and perspective as to be expected.

I've lived the world over.....all my life. To this day, I still don't know what the fuss is as it applies to the West.

Some are just indoctrinated that way, I guess......

Surprisingly, I agree with your last sentence..."reality is that neither in our nor in our childrens life time this country will change to what we westerners consider a "civilised" country."

So what are we (Americans, Europeans, Australians) doing there?

I too doubt that change is more than a thin veneer we are putting on an old society, to be ripped off within five years of the allies leaving Afghanistan, so why are we there?

Why are the neo-imperialistic forces there? Why are they anywhere? And....why have they occupied any world locale? Like any imperialist.colonialist mindset - old school or new school - the inferior cultures need to watched over and taught how to conduct themselves in a Western standardized manner. White Man Burden, you know.

Seeing Donald Celebrity Roasted the other day, it was clear that he will not be running for election...it is all just publicity.

No serious contender would consent to being Celebrity Roasted.

OK. if so, what makes Western cultures especially civilised?

Have you ever lived anywhere else? If so, then you can answer that question yourself.

The Euro-centric view is often blinkered as the mindset is narrow. A recent post in Bedlam mentioned the "faeces and vomit littered streets"......of a British town, no less! The post even was so bold as to say "Jesus, these are white people!"

The words of Ben Franklin are apt here...."Savages we call them because their manners differ from ours."

Seeing Donald Celebrity Roasted the other day, it was clear that he will not be running for election...it is all just publicity.

No serious contender would consent to being Celebrity Roasted.

This is well understood......

Running or not, he's stirring the pot nicely for other candidates to jump in on a slightly less 'right' policy, but still pretty conservative.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/8472964/Donald-Trump-Barack-Obama-wasnt-qualified-for-Ivy-League.html

The Euro-centric view is often blinkered as the mindset is narrow. A recent post in Bedlam mentioned the "faeces and vomit littered streets"......of a British town, no less! The post even was so bold as to say "Jesus, these are white people!"

You've obviously never been to Ilkeston on a Saturday night.

i agree with you, but very much suspect that he is hiding something. My guess is that his long-form birth certificate says that his religion at birth was Muslim - which I personally could care less about, but it would hurt him politically.

Is it you or someone else that always talks about loony conspiracy theories?

1) If his father was Muslim then the odds are he was considered Muslim as a child before pop ran off. I doubt he went by "Barry" as a child in Indonesia.

2) I haven't heard the reasons some people think the Hawaii newspaper accounts of his birth aren't legit.

I have heard a theory that his grandparents might have called the newspaper and placed the birth ad themselves. Dunno, just a theory.

Your mate UG often ridicules the (in his words or words to the effect) "loony supporters of conspiracy theory".