Do You Think The Russification Of Pattaya Is A Good Thing Or Not?

[Jingthing]

I think its crystal clear now to most everyone that Pattaya has reached a critical mass of Russification. Yes it has been building gradually for many year now, but I consider this year a watershed for the Russian presence here. The masses of Russians have already changed Pattaya and they're going to change it more, perhaps much more, over time.

So, from your point of view, do you view this change in a positive light, or not, and why?

BTW, I have an anecdotal experience to share. Last night riding a baht bus to Jomtien with a baht bus brimming with Russians (typical) at one stop there was a loud chorus of drunken Russian songs heard from a nearby bar. I picked up a very weird vibe from the Russians on the bus when they heard it -- subtle reserved smiles of course and also kind of like, this is our place now, we've claimed it.

Please note, I didn't start this thread to encourage people to diss Russians in rude ways. It's just that this demographic change is a reality now and I think it would be interesting to hear more about how people feel about it. I am sure if people can't keep their comments CIVIL that this thread has no future, so please be polite in your comments, OK?

[bangkokrick]

I frequent a bar on Jomtien beach road from time to time and on my last visit I was shocked to see the Russification of the place. (nice word by the way). The menu and menu boards are now all in Russian and they also show Russian TV channels on their 42 incher. To cap it all there was a 'bill sign' outside the bar featuring 'Red Elvis". The end is nigh!

Cheers, Rick

[dananderson]

I would be more interested in the Thai response concurrent with the buisnes owners point of view..I don't see WS bars benefitting from Ruaains. They drink in the street. 7/11 and family-mart profit the most on WS .from this crowd.;

[Exsexyman]

Spot on Jingthing. I too regularly take the sardine special baht bus to Jomtien from south pattaya. Over the past year i have witnessed hoards of Russians taking this trip. As soon as the baht bus reverses into position to load the waiting passengers, the russians barge through, never mind the people who have been waiting in line, Thai or westerners, pushing and shoving everybody out of the way. They do indeed seem to have formed the opinion that this is their town now, and the rest of us have to put up with their ignorant and boorish behaviour. I have witnessed them elbowing elderly thai ladies out of the way, putting bags on seats to "reserve" them for their friends who are on their way. I presume this is the normal behaviour in Russia, as they give the impression that this is the correct way to behave. The women are worse than the men, if that is possible. And believe me, when you are sat squashed up next to them their personal hygiene leaves a lot to be desired. I have seen more than one altercation between a russian and a driver over this, but they just growl and carry on regardless. But apparantly these are the new "quality" tourists the powers that be here in pattaya are targeting. A few years down the line they will live to regret it. Just about every restaurant / bar owner or shopkeeper you talk to has a horror story to tell about these people. Several times a day. But i am afraid it is now too late, too many of them are flocking here, the damage is already done. I notice from reading the Phuket and Koh Samui forums that they are gaining a foothold there too, with the same complaints from other tourists and expats. Russian"entrepeneurs" are already opening go go bars, nightclubs etc on walking street, staffed by eastern europeans, with what seems to be total impunity of the work permit laws. Money number one i guess. But the day will come, a few years down the line, when the decent people here, thai and farang, will regret handing over large swathes of the tourist industries to these people. But of course, by then, the "powers that be", who have given the green light to this, will be nowhere to be seen. They will be sitting back, spending more time with their bank accounts.

[manarak]

I think it is a bad thing, because most of the Russians don't like Thai girls, and they have a negative effect on other tourists who will avoid the Russian-dominated places.

I fear they will scare the western bar patrons away and help the mayor in making Pattaya a boring "family resort" for heavy drinkers with overpriced clubs and restaurants.

But I trust the Thai people to just grow more cheap sleaze around them.

[craigt3365]

If I am not mistaken, these folks are not really "Russians", but are from the former Soviet Union countries...Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, etc. I live near the Ambassador....which is a hot bed for these packaged tourists. I've chatted up a few, but most are pretty unfriendly...and don't speak English.

As packaged tourists, they have already spent most of their funds on the air fare and hotel, so now are spending just a little bit. I understand this as I have done these package tours before...in my younger, and poorer days! I use to bring my own booze and even my own food. Just didn't have the cash to eat out every night.

I know several shop owners across from the Ambassador. They tell me these people negotiate everything. Wifey was at the beauty shop there yesterday and saw a lady come in and try to negotiate the price of removing her nail polish down from 20B to 10B. Luckily, they owner said now...and the lady paid the huge sum of 20B.

I've had 2 bad encounters in Pattaya...both were with "Russians". Both were quite drunk.

JT: Do you remember that thread from about a year ago. Where a Russian came on and told us about these people. It was really interesting. I can't find it, but he explained their nature and behavior quite well. Something like politeness is seen as weakness. These are poor tourists, not really the rich ones (though I'm sure some have money). Etc. I'll keep searching and see if I can find it....

[FarangBuddha]

I don't really have an opinion one way or another...as long as they are spending money, which they are, they are a plus to Pattaya's economy and therefore are most welcome. Do agree that they have completely taken over many areas of town...like yesterday, I was at Central Beach for lunch at Sukishi Japanese food and at least 80% of the patrons were Russian. Then went down to meet some people in the food-court in the basement and again, it was full of Russians. So they are spending at the mid to upper range eateries and the "value" outlets as well.

I don't know where many of these businesses would be without the Russians.

[toenail]

I wonder back in the 70's or 80's if someone was asking if 'Westernizing' (OR..Germanizing, Britishizing, or Americanizing) of Pattaya was a good thing or not? i am a Westerner who grew up with the "Cold War" and wonder if the post WWII generation of Westerners cannot give up their stereotype of people from the former Soviet Union and still carry their negative feelings left from the propaganda that they grew up with as a child???? I moved here 6 years ago (because of job) and there were very few Russian visiting Pattaya so i have also witnessed the boom of numbers. If it wasn't for the tourists being 80% (my estimate) Russians, many hotels, restaurants, shops and tourist sights would be hurting. I find it refreshing to see families and couples visiting Pattaya other than just the single horny male tourist. True, the mannerisms of most Russians are a bit abbrasive...cold...'"different" but one has to understand that every culture is different and the fact that the older generation grew up under communism would make them less 'people friendly" The younger generation is more 'worldly" than their parents and are speaking the internnational language of English. Yes, there have been some rude (according to my upbringing) actions of some Russians that i have runned into (such as Russian men at the fitness center always wanting to 'butt in" my use of a weight machine; or not waiting their turn to get on a baht bus) but i just roll my eyes thinking they are just clueless to what is being polite. I remember when I first went overseas, some of the mistakes I made... not standing in a straight 'cue' when waiting for a bus in London; eating with my left hand in Arabia; not getting out of my seat when an elderly lady entered a Skytrain in Bangkok; not properly greeting the elders at a dinner in Turkey...the list goes on. Yes, there are many Russians visiting Thailand, but i do not think they are "taking over the city" -- I still see American fast food restaurant chains/ European clothing chains/ British mega stores being the major international businesses here; not a Volga or Moscow shopping complex.

[karazyal]

I kind of like seeing pretty Farang women who don't weigh around 200 pounds like so many women coming from other parts of Europe and N. America! (Even if they are from Russia!)

The malls are crowded at night time, this can't be all bad for Thai businesses.

[CGW]

The huge Russian influx over recent years has to be seen as a positive for Pattaya, without them the place would be dead! Believe they make up around 60% of the total figures?

[craigt3365]

I wonder back in the 70's or 80's if someone was asking if 'Westernizing' (OR..Germanizing, Britishizing, or Americanizing) of Pattaya was a good thing or not? i am a Westerner who grew up with the "Cold War" and wonder if the post WWII generation of Westerners cannot give up their stereotype of people from the former Soviet Union and still carry their negative feelings left from the propaganda that they grew up with as a child???? I moved here 6 years ago (because of job) and there were very few Russian visiting Pattaya so i have also witnessed the boom of numbers. If it wasn't for the tourists being 80% (my estimate) Russians, many hotels, restaurants, shops and tourist sights would be hurting. I find it refreshing to see families and couples visiting Pattaya other than just the single horny male tourist. True, the mannerisms of most Russians are a bit abbrasive...cold...'"different" but one has to understand that every culture is different and the fact that the older generation grew up under communism would make them less 'people friendly" The younger generation is more 'worldly" than their parents and are speaking the internnational language of English. Yes, there have been some rude (according to my upbringing) actions of some Russians that i have runned into (such as Russian men at the fitness center always wanting to 'butt in" my use of a weight machine; or not waiting their turn to get on a baht bus) but i just roll my eyes thinking they are just clueless to what is being polite. I remember when I first went overseas, some of the mistakes I made... not standing in a straight 'cue' when waiting for a bus in London; eating with my left hand in Arabia; not getting out of my seat when an elderly lady entered a Skytrain in Bangkok; not properly greeting the elders at a dinner in Turkey...the list goes on. Yes, there are many Russians visiting Thailand, but i do not think they are "taking over the city" -- I still see American fast food restaurant chains/ European clothing chains/ British mega stores being the major international businesses here; not a Volga or Moscow shopping complex.

I just read in one of the pattaya rags that the new King Power shopping mega center is oriented towards Russians and Chinese. And it looks to be a HUGE store....

[californiabeachboy]

The fact is that "pipelines" develop, in which people from a particular culture/country come to visit a place go back to their home country and tell their friends about it, and the flow of people from that country increases. I live in California, where strangely enough, most of the donut shops are owned by Cambodians, because they started coming here during the Vietnam War and now hire their cousins, nephews, etc., and pretty soon the cousin opens up their own donut shop. And my understanding is that they don't even eat donuts in Cambodia. I think the important thing is, not whether they are Russian or not, but whether they are a drunk rude Russian, or a Russian who respects the culture, and is respectful and polite to others. I have been to Patttay twice now, and I think Pattaya needs to figure out a way to attract the latter and not the former.

[craigt3365]

The fact is that "pipelines" develop, in which people from a particular culture/country come to visit a place go back to their home country and tell their friends about it, and the flow of people from that country increases. I live in California, where strangely enough, most of the donut shops are owned by Cambodians, because they started coming here during the Vietnam War and now hire their cousins, nephews, etc., and pretty soon the cousin opens up their own donut shop. And my understanding is that they don't even eat donuts in Cambodia. I think the important thing is, not whether they are Russian or not, but whether they are a drunk rude Russian, or a Russian who respects the culture, and is respectful and polite to others. I have been to Patttay twice now, and I think Pattaya needs to figure out a way to attract the latter and not the former.

I think a big thing for these nationalities is the easy access to visas. Thailand has a bilateral agreement with Russia. Easy for Thais to get visas to Russia and easy for them to get visas here. When I was in Moscow a few years ago, I met quite a few Thais there on holiday.

[MZurf]

If I am not mistaken, these folks are not really "Russians", but are from the former Soviet Union countries...Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, etc. I live near the Ambassador....which is a hot bed for these packaged tourists. I've chatted up a few, but most are pretty unfriendly...and don't speak English.

As packaged tourists, they have already spent most of their funds on the air fare and hotel, so now are spending just a little bit. I understand this as I have done these package tours before...in my younger, and poorer days! I use to bring my own booze and even my own food. Just didn't have the cash to eat out every night.

I know several shop owners across from the Ambassador. They tell me these people negotiate everything. Wifey was at the beauty shop there yesterday and saw a lady come in and try to negotiate the price of removing her nail polish down from 20B to 10B. Luckily, they owner said now...and the lady paid the huge sum of 20B.

I've had 2 bad encounters in Pattaya...both were with "Russians". Both were quite drunk.

JT: Do you remember that thread from about a year ago. Where a Russian came on and told us about these people. It was really interesting. I can't find it, but he explained their nature and behavior quite well. Something like politeness is seen as weakness. These are poor tourists, not really the rich ones (though I'm sure some have money). Etc. I'll keep searching and see if I can find it....

Please let us know if you find that thread. It would be very interesting to read.

Regarding the OP's question: The "Russification" of Pattaya is the only thing that has made me semi-seriously consider relocating to another place in Thailand.

[gmac]

I don't mind the Russians in themselves, even if they do lack the social niceties, I don't think any nation can claim that all it's citizens are perfect. What concerns me is the danger of the Russian underworld extending its tentacles throughout the city. Frankly we've got enough troubles already with the local powers without a whole new 'mafia' flexing it's muscles!

[bartender100]

I would be more interested in the Thai response concurrent with the buisnes owners point of view..I don't see WS bars benefitting from Ruaains. They drink in the street. 7/11 and family-mart profit the most on WS .from this crowd.;

I don't think that's true anymore, they certainly have taken over the south end, also they use the bars in the bar complex (opposite Tory's,) i was there last night and 2 girls got up to pole dance in one of the bars, also seen them much more in go-go's, night clubs, have a look in Toro's, i had a very interesting night in there last night, SML B150 so they are not shy about spending.

It will be the bars that welcome them that get their business, if i had a bar i would have some signage up in Russian. In my opinion they have the money to spend.

I think you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, remember they have only just started traveling overseas

Right now Pattaya would be very very empty without them

[Semper]

One can only hope that the "Russification" does not spread to other parts of Thailand

[xminator]

One can only hope that the "Russification" does not spread to other parts of Thailand

The worst part of a huge number from one culture would be that the multi-cultural aspect of Pattaya disappears. Part of its attraction is the multitude of cultures, and Europeans cant be categorized as a single culture, that exists in Pattaya. Its the farangs trying to permanently make a home in Thailand that also give Pattaya that little bit extra. Yes, its largely unsophisticated and smell of redneck entertainment, but still its diversified Pattaya into something else then the regular tourist resorts.

That will change when a huge number of people come from a area with a unified culture like the former soviet republics, a large part of them ethnic russians no matter what republic they are from. In Thailand for 1 or 2 weeks of sun, leaving some of their money but taking everything back home when they go. This will move Pattaya more toward a spanish tourist resort feel. Or Phuket... It will be more shows FOR the foreigners, not shows BY the foreigners.

I can however see that a russian minority might join the western expats. Gays. Frowned upon in their own country they might find a haven in Pattaya. And in turn be part of the positive influx of culture to Pattaya. But should Pattaya lose the reason why the other western cultures decide to stay, that is the girls, Pattaya will be a poorer place to stay for those of us that like to eat...

[sojourner007]

JT: Do you remember that thread from about a year ago. Where a Russian came on and told us about these people. It was really interesting. I can't find it, but he explained their nature and behavior quite well. Something like politeness is seen as weakness. These are poor tourists, not really the rich ones (though I'm sure some have money). Etc. I'll keep searching and see if I can find it....

I think perhaps the thread you mean is this one: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/326029-pattaya-takeover-by-russians/page__st__120__p__3266316#entry3266316

thaivisa.com is full of separate forums on the same subject. People open new topics without having checked first if such a topic already exists. The current topic is practically about the same as the one above. Here is another one: http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/66710-russians-taking-over-pattaya/ . Probably there are more.

And I think there should be a limit on how much copied text of a previous post people can include in their replies on the forums. Many posts are just a page long copy of someone else's post with a couple of new words in reply. Why not to just replace copied text with an html link to relevant post?

As for Russians in Pattaya... well, they basically making Pattaya just like a town in Russia. So it is a question of if you would you like to live in Russia or not. You, Westerners, wanted so much to win the cold war and to liberate Russians from the clutches of communism. You tried hard to make them free, so this is your payback. I find similarities here with the feminist movement. Western men seemed to like the idea of giving women more rights and freedoms in the 70-s and 80s. I guess you hoped they will be thankful to you for your generosity and will be even happier to please you more sexually. And what did you get in reality later in return for your liberalism, humanism, and democratic principles? Feminazies are having a great laugh at stupid white men. And BTW, the money Russians travel on (as well as the money that Arabs travel on), are your Western money that you paid back home for the gasoline for your car. So keep driving your gas-guzzling 4x drives and enjoy the Russians.

[Jingthing]

Interesting that you mention gay Russians. Yes, I have also noticed quite a few gay Russians and yes gay Russians suffer severe homophobia at home. Many of them are young, quite a big younger, than the typical "of a certain age" western gays. I have also noticed this phenom among Iranian gays. Yes, Pattaya is a great destination for gays from oppressive countries. However, of course only a small percentage of gay tourists will find a way to become more long term residents here. That takes money and also some visa acrobatics if you are under 50.

As far as where the Russians are coming from, my strong feeling is that MOST of them are indeed coming from the existing country of Russia. It's still big and still cold.

[Jingthing]

Ran out of editing time on post above. Here is an interesting link about homophobia in Russia, which relates to this thread as we are likely to see even more gay Russians coming here. Maybe a good business opportunity for someone, a Russian oriented gay dance club (or maybe it exists already here?).

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1899340,00.html

Of the majority of the Russians coming here are family types ...

[craigt3365]

JT: Do you remember that thread from about a year ago. Where a Russian came on and told us about these people. It was really interesting. I can't find it, but he explained their nature and behavior quite well. Something like politeness is seen as weakness. These are poor tourists, not really the rich ones (though I'm sure some have money). Etc. I'll keep searching and see if I can find it....

I think perhaps the thread you mean is this one: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/326029-pattaya-takeover-by-russians/page__st__120__p__3266316#entry3266316

thaivisa.com is full of separate forums on the same subject. People open new topics without having checked first if such a topic already exists. The current topic is practically about the same as the one above. Here is another one: http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/66710-russians-taking-over-pattaya/ . Probably there are more.

And I think there should be a limit on how much copied text of a previous post people can include in their replies on the forums. Many posts are just a page long copy of someone else's post with a couple of new words in reply. Why not to just replace copied text with an html link to relevant post?

As for Russians in Pattaya... well, they basically making Pattaya just like a town in Russia. So it is a question of if you would you like to live in Russia or not. You, Westerners, wanted so much to win the cold war and to liberate Russians from the clutches of communism. You tried hard to make them free, so this is your payback. I find similarities here with the feminist movement. Western men seemed to like the idea of giving women more rights and freedoms in the 70-s and 80s. I guess you hoped they will be thankful to you for your generosity and will be even happier to please you more sexually. And what did you get in reality later in return for your liberalism, humanism, and democratic principles? Feminazies are having a great laugh at stupid white men. And BTW, the money Russians travel on (as well as the money that Arabs travel on), are your Western money that you paid back home for the gasoline for your car. So keep driving your gas-guzzling 4x drives and enjoy the Russians.

Perfect! That's the post I was looking for! Seems pretty descriptive to me...

[lonewolf99]

The people this survey should be aimed at is the local Thai population.

I only get one view from any Thai I meet.

They are not happy.

They see Russian "lady" work bar.

They see the beaches crowded with them but buy nothing.

They see the swimming pools crowded with them.

They never dress reservedly in the shops and malls.

They comandeer Baht Busses to go where they want and do not consider any one else. I have had several detours to Cozy beach planned for me - I just rang the bell got off and walked back to Thrappaya road - the driver is going to get crazy money any way - he does not need my 10 baht.

They haggle with local vendors on items that cost pennies in the first place...

On the property front - they are creating ghettos.

When I transfer money from my UK bank I am asked all sorts of questions about "money laundering" for security reasons.

But I know for a fact Russian/Eastern Block people buy blocks of condo apartments - 10 at a time - fully furnish them and .....walk away.

They never rent them out or come back to holiday in them.

Drug money well hidden.

The only locals that seem to benefit are 7/11's Family Marts, Baht taxi drivers and and Food Courts in the likes of Tesco and Big C...

One local RAG newspaper was quoting from its own survey that some Russian Tourist was on about people from the UK being surly and abusive....even my Thai GF laughed at that....she knows the people from UK are only surly and abusive to to ones that started the surly competition.....

please post a headline when you hear or see any of them having a good time !!!!!

By the way it is not just Pattaya the Russians are moving in on...Cypres, Spain, Portugal and for a long time now the South of France.

But, believe me there aint no way to turn back this tide of humanity.....I remember seeing the wall come down and thinking.....no good will come of this.....

just my humble opinion...

[Jingthing]

Yes, everyone interested in understanding more about the Russian demographic in Pattaya should definitely read that link. It might even help us to "understand" some of the more rude behavior we experience from Russians, for whatever good that will do us. But anyway ...

Someone mentioned the madness at the Jomtien baht bus queue. Oh yeah! It does vary but sometimes the rude behavior there can be truly over the top. This is where it gets interesting. I have found when the crowd starts to act super piggy (and sorry, yes most of this crowd these days are Russians) there is little choice but to act more piggy yourself, if you want to ever get a seat on a bus! So yes the Russians are changing the dynamic here. That part, I do NOT like!

[WarpSpeed]

Someone has to pay the bills...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Pattaya has seen 'influxes; from several countries and regions over the years.

With each group it was th cheap package tourists that came first.

You've seen waves of Americans (military), Germans, British, now Russians and places like Iran.

It makes Pattaya a more interesting place.

It's good.

[Jingthing]

So far, the voting is more balanced than I would have predicted. I voted neutral because I think there is both good and bad in the trend. However, I share the concerns of people with a more negative view of the situation. I also value the great diversity we have in town, and wouldn't like it to get overly dominated by any one culture, even Thai, hahaha We'll see.

In case this sounds specifically anti-Russian, I don't think so. As an American if all of a sudden Pattaya was dominated by American tourists and residents, I wouldn't be overly pleased either!

I must admit I would like to see many more Chinese (out of the tour buses!). The reason? More Chinese, better Chinese restaurants.

[transam]

From what l have read here it seems Pattaya is heading for calamity.

[Jingthing]

From what l have read here it seems Pattaya is heading for calamity.

You may be right!

[sojourner007]

By the way it is not just Pattaya the Russians are moving in on...Cypres, Spain, Portugal and for a long time now the South of France.

But, believe me there aint no way to turn back this tide of humanity.....I remember seeing the wall come down and thinking.....no good will come of this.....

just my humble opinion...

Some countries however sensibly resist such red tide. For example Switzerland a few years ago was getting also overwhelmed by newly rich Russians coming in droves to its skiing resorts. The old regulars from Western Europe started avoiding those places because of that. In response the local authorities started restricting bookings made by Russian tour companies. The authorities said that they wanted to keep old money coming as well as new money. But Thais don't care I guess that much about old Western sex-tourists. Certainly Russians book 5-star hotels in high season much more than Western visitors to Pattaya, who mainly favour budget accommodation. That is why there has been an explosion in numbers of new 5 -star hotels over the last couple of years.