Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[JetsetBkk]

I resent it when nuke plant supporters describe how those opposed to nuke plants think. A couple days ago, a letter in the Bkk Post claimed that nuke plant opponents '....don't even consider the effects of other nuclear disasters.' And now the letter above which states 'everyone now thinks that the film "The China Syndrome" was about Three Mile Island.' I'm part of 'everyone', and I certainly don't think that. I was actually driving towards 3-Mile Island when it was crippled.

I'm not an active supporter of anything much. But I've no problem with nuclear power like you guys appear to have.

Glad to hear you survived Three Mile Island. But then, everyone else did too.

The long comments copied and pasted by 'unblocktheplantet' are valid on this topic, in that they show some peoples' reactions to Japanese problem nuke plants. It's good to hear the whole spectrum, from the vested establishment who claim such things as 'nuclear power has an excellent safety record' (EGAT's 2010 report), to others' views.

You and he could just paste the link and give your own views on the particular article. But if you don't want to do that, then I'll keep copy/pasting stuff that I find.

I have always known nuclear has the potential to toxify the planet, and now we're seeing it, feeling it, tasting it first hand, particularly if a person is downwind from Fukushima. The genie is out of the bottle, and its poisoning the atmosphere, the oceans, landmasses, and many living things. You can call me an alarmist, but it's like Japan opened a little bottle of extreme toxicity - and now the poison is wafting to nooks and crannies all over the world.

"Toxify the planet"? Ooh, scary words. But I haven't tasted it. And I've had three Japanese bananas in the last two days - delicious. I'll probably finish off the other three later.

Should I then get a check-up?

I resent the planners who implemented Fukushima, but I have a particular disdain for the people (mostly greedy lying businessmen and politicians) who continue to lie to the general public about how clean, safe and inexpensive nuclear power is. The manipulators at Thailand's EGAT are at the top of that list.

[JetsetBkk]

I think some of you guys have finally and completely lost all sense of proportion.

Why don't you watch the news, the real news, not some web blogger trying to make a name for himself.

Here you go:

I'm very sorry if it doesn't send you hiding behind your sofa or down into the basement, but this is the real news.

Unreal Jeset !

These days i would rather believe " some web blogger " any day than the MSM !!

You only have to look at the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. They were spraying

COREXIT ( 11 times more toxic than oil ) in the bloody dark at night - and why didnt the MSM report that ?

Next you will be telling us dont worry - just believe what the government is telling you

Oops! Did you just mention the BP oil spill? What a disaster! It's the end of the world. Again.

Oh, hang on a minute, here's some news from yesterday's "BBC Newsnight". Of course, you can't believe a word that comes out from the BBC, can you?

Watch it if you dare:

So, the Three Mile Island meltdown to China went a fraction of an inch, the BP oil spill is nowhere near as damaging as predicted and you guys still keep hoovering the web for any doom-laden blog about Fukushima, each trying to out-doom the previous guy.

And you call me 'unreal'!

[midas]

I think some of you guys have finally and completely lost all sense of proportion.

Why don't you watch the news, the real news, not some web blogger trying to make a name for himself.

Here you go:

I'm very sorry if it doesn't send you hiding behind your sofa or down into the basement, but this is the real news.

Unreal Jeset !

These days i would rather believe " some web blogger " any day than the MSM !!

You only have to look at the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. They were spraying

COREXIT ( 11 times more toxic than oil ) in the bloody dark at night - and why didnt the MSM report that ?

Next you will be telling us dont worry - just believe what the government is telling you

Oops! Did you just mention the BP oil spill? What a disaster! It's the end of the world. Again.

Oh, hang on a minute, here's some news from yesterday's "BBC Newsnight". Of course, you can't believe a word that comes out from the BBC, can you?

Watch it if you dare:

So, the Three Mile Island meltdown to China went a fraction of an inch, the BP oil spill is nowhere near as damaging as predicted says who ? some guy in a silly hat ? and you guys still keep hoovering the web for any doom-laden blog about Fukushima, each trying to out-doom the previous guy.

And you call me 'unreal'!

You must be a buddy of big government Jetset the way you think

So you can get Obama to lift his gag order on why so many dolphins having been dying

now why does there need to be a gag order ?

" An abnormal dolphin mortality this year along the Gulf coast has become part of a federal criminal investigation over last year’s BP oil spill disaster and as a result, has led the US government to clamp down on biologists’ findings, with orders to keep the results confidential. "

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305096#ixzz1HxDYlSy1

Edited April 15, 2011 by midas

[JetsetBkk]

Unreal Jeset !

These days i would rather believe " some web blogger " any day than the MSM !!

You only have to look at the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. They were spraying

COREXIT ( 11 times more toxic than oil ) in the bloody dark at night - and why didnt the MSM report that ?

Next you will be telling us dont worry - just believe what the government is telling you

Oops! Did you just mention the BP oil spill? What a disaster! It's the end of the world. Again.

Oh, hang on a minute, here's some news from yesterday's "BBC Newsnight". Of course, you can't believe a word that comes out from the BBC, can you?

Watch it if you dare:

So, the Three Mile Island meltdown to China went a fraction of an inch, the BP oil spill is nowhere near as damaging as predicted says who ? some guy in a silly hat ? and you guys still keep hoovering the web for any doom-laden blog about Fukushima, each trying to out-doom the previous guy.

And you call me 'unreal'!

You must be a buddy of big government Jetset the way you think

So you can get Obama to lift his gag order on why so many dolphins having been dying

now why does there need to be a gag order ?

" An abnormal dolphin mortality this year along the Gulf coast has become part of a federal criminal investigation over last year’s BP oil spill disaster and as a result, has led the US government to clamp down on biologists’ findings, with orders to keep the results confidential. "

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305096#ixzz1HxDYlSy1

I'm not a buddy of anyone in government, and I can understand the outrage of people who are demanding to know what is going on. After all, 17 dead dolphins is 17 dead dolphins.

But I guess you didn't read the end of the story, not that it would in any way satisfy you:

Officials with the NOAA state the confidentiality measures are an integral part of the current investigation over the BP oil spill.

“We are treating the evidence, which are the dolphin samples, like a murder case,” said Dr. Erin Fougeres, a Fisheries Service marine biologist, Reuters notes. “The chain of custody is being closely watched. Every dolphin sample is considered evidence in the BP case now,” she added.

PS. You're not actually allowed to modify quoted posts, but I don't mind. I just thought I'd let you know in case a mod wandered into this thread.

[midas]

I think some of you guys have finally and completely lost all sense of proportion.

Why don't you watch the news, the real news, not some web blogger trying to make a name for himself.

Here you go:

I'm very sorry if it doesn't send you hiding behind your sofa or down into the basement, but this is the real news.

Here is some REAL news just for you !!

U.S. officials doubted nuclear safety plans: watchdog

" BOSTON — U.S. regulators privately have expressed doubts that some of the nation's nuclear power plants are prepared for a Fukushima-scale disaster, undercutting their public confidence since Japan's nuclear crisis began, documents released by an independent safety watchdog group show. "

"While the NRC and the nuclear industry have been reassuring Americans that there is nothing to worry about ( sounds just like you Jetset ) -- that we can do a better job dealing with a nuclear disaster like the one that just happened in Japan -- it turns out that privately NRC senior analysts are not so sure," said Edwin Lyman, a UCS nuclear expert."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42192651

Edited April 15, 2011 by midas

[unblocktheplanet]

I don't mind be challenged for my views when supported by facts. However, I wrote that long article and posted it to Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) and provided the link. Oft course, I quoted the comments included and the illustrations are not my own.

Undoubtedly, I paraphrased in some cases. But it took me many days of research and I provided attribution and links to most of my news sources.

Personally, I don't think much of copyright and make my original work available for free on the 'net; this strategy has not resulted in any loss of sales for my 19 books in print. Similarly, at FACT, I don't have any compunction to reposting news articles in their entirety. Nobody is losing any money by this and the information should be spread around.

Incidentally, I must apologise about the format of my posting. Most of my illustrative material has no defined URL so it doesn't show up in postings. I urge readers to view it FACT for the full impact.

If you wish to refute my original work with facts, please do so, and feel free to disagree with my strong opinions. We're doomed!

Edited April 15, 2011 by unblocktheplanet

[slapout]

Having followed this topic since the first reports started coming in, discounting some of the personal snipping, I think we can all agree that human knowledge and experience still has a long way to go, to be able to adequately plan for catastrophic natural events and mans contribution or lack thereof to them.

Yes, there will be and seemly always has been stonewalling, waffling, mistakes, ineptitude, finger pointing, etc, but we (humans) do seem to learn a little more, during and after each event.

There are some who say we are reaching the physical and financial limit of construction, space travel, medicine, etc and others who feel we are on the threshold of greater accomplishments. It does seem that each catastrophic event, bring about improvement in many areas, this is probably a trait of humans which has been present throughout our existence. We see a need for change/improvement after we have had a bad experience.

[atsiii]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110415-704192.html

Company President Masataka Shimizu said Friday that about 50,000 households within a 30-kilometer radius of the facility will be eligible for initial payments of up to Y1 million, totaling around Y50 billion.

The move caps a week in which the Japanese government raised its assessment of the month-long crisis to the highest severity level by international standards--a rating conferred so far only upon the Chernobyl accident--due to large-scale releases of radioactive materials. Japanese regulators determined that the plant has likely released tens of thousands of terabecquerels of radiation in the immediate area since a series of explosions caused by loss of cooling capability following the massive earthquake and tsunami on March 11.

"terabecquerels" ...not sure if I have ever heard that term. So, tens of thousands of terabecquerels of radiation... is that the same as, "mai pen rai, just trust us?" But I'm thinking that is just the amount released to the atmosphere and does not include the tens of thousands of tons of radioactive water released to the sea. So what would the Greek word be for "all the radiation combined that has been released?" Would it just be the same word as the vegetable in my Thai clear soup?

[unblocktheplanet]

Readers here will be interested in the more problematic situation at the fast breeder reactor in Monju. Fast breeder means it's packed with plutonium.

What the hell were these people thinking, anyway?!?

[brahmburgers]

I have a personal 'rule of thumb' I adhere to as a neighbor. I have Thai neighbors, so of course I cannot expect them to adhere to it, but here it goes:

As much as possible, I try to keep toxins/annoyances spreading across my fence line to neighbors. I put in a good septic system, I carry bagged trash to the proper place, I don't have animals (barking or otherwise), I keep plants from growing over the fence - which might annoy others. My Thai neighbors, on the other hand, burn plastic, have barking dogs, allow sticker bushes to grow over their fences in to my yard, make loud noises (parties, radios, arguments, etc), and bright outdoor lights shining all night. Maybe it's just an Asian thing, to not care about adversely affecting neighbors.

It's not hard to see how this mini-rant relates to the crippled Fukushima plant. It was a poor decision to start with. Then they had questionable planning/engineering, and then, when an unprecendented (to the planners) natural calamity struck, they continually tried to downplay the seriousness and generally dealt with it unsatisfactorily.

[brahmburgers]

Readers here will be interested in the more problematic situation at the fast breeder reactor in Monju. Fast breeder means it's packed with plutonium.

What the hell were these people thinking, anyway?!?

Thanks for the link. I looked at it. 70 million baht per day (indefinitely) for maintaining an N plant that doesn't generate electricity - that's sobering stuff. Indeed, a big part of that maintenance cost is probably paying for electricity coming in from elsewhere.

I bet a lot of Japanese are looking a lot more seriously at solar and thermal and wind. Too bad they got greedy not-too-bright leaders who still want to charge headlong in to nuclear.

[elcent]

Now it's nearly fixed in Germany.

Until the end of June there will be a law for the nuclear exit pathway, according to Angela Merkel.

Hope many other nations will follow suit. There's no time to waste. (Even Siemens has skipped the contract with Russia to build 400 nuclear reactors)

Remember, it's Germany and a few surrounding countries that is spiked with high calibre engineers and scientists. They know what they're doing and why.

[elcent]

Readers here will be interested in the more problematic situation at the fast breeder reactor in Monju. Fast breeder means it's packed with plutonium.

What the hell were these people thinking, anyway?!?

Thanks for the link. I looked at it. 70 million baht per day (indefinitely) for maintaining an N plant that doesn't generate electricity - that's sobering stuff. Indeed, a big part of that maintenance cost is probably paying for electricity coming in from elsewhere.

I bet a lot of Japanese are looking a lot more seriously at solar and thermal and wind. Too bad they got greedy not-too-bright leaders who still want to charge headlong in to nuclear.

an interestin link. I read something elsewhere. There are more critical nuclear plants and tons of cover-ups.

Hope they all will follow the German sample and get out of it before it's to late. We can't accumulate more "natural background radiation" . It's an absolute deadly spiral which is rooted in the US of A. They need to accelarate business to cover their costs from long time ago. It won't work.

Let's call these simple accidents until now. But what about a guarantee of political stability, terrorism, war and more and more greed?

The Germans figured it out.

I'm afraid that the Amercan govt has a frozen mindset about that.

It's like the last chance calling ...

BTW, gas is even more dangerous than coal or oil. Within 20 years it would create more green-house gasses than the ones mentioned before. A detailed feasibility study is on it's way, - of course by the Germans.

[unblocktheplanet]

Readers may find these pix interesting. From Cryptome.org, the original WikiLeaks:

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp2/daiichi-photos2.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp3/daiichi-photos3.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp4/daiichi-photos4.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp5/daiichi-photos5.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp6/daiichi-photos6.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp7/daiichi-photos7.htm

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp8/daiichi-photos8.htm

[atsiii]

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Radioactivity-rises-in-sea-off-Japan-nuclear-plant-1339627.php

But the government said Saturday that radioactivity in the seawater has risen again in recent days. The level of radioactive iodine-131 spiked to 6,500 times the legal limit, according to samples taken Friday, up from 1,100 times the limit in samples taken the day before. Levels of cesium-134 and cesium-137 rose nearly fourfold.

The new rise in radioactivity could have been caused by the installation Friday of steel panels intended to contain radiation which may have temporarily stirred up stagnant waste in the area, Hidehiko Nishiyama of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency told reporters. However, the increase in iodine-131, which has a relatively short eight-day half life, could signal the possibility of a new leak, he said.

[brahmburgers]

riveting photos indeed. I'm sure I'm not the 1st to say it looks like a tactical military strike. If this had happened to a US N plant, the Arabs would be dancing and celebrating in the streets.

Just a year ago, EGAT published a summary of their 175 million baht 'Feasibility Report' for whether Thailand should go nuclear. The whole thing, of course, was a farce, as the recipient (Burns and Roe Asia, Ltd.) of that money knew beforehand what Apisit Patchimpattapong, Ph.D. and other heads of EGAT wanted to see. Indeed, the contract was probably 200 million, and EGAT heads could have easily put 25 million in to their deep pockets.

Here's a quote showcased in the report's summary: ""Nuclear power has an excellent safety record" Source: H-Holger Rogner, Head of Planning & Economic Studies, Dept. of Nuclear Energy, IAEA, 2010

And the overall summary of that report: "Nuclear power is reliable, low and stable cost, and has no greenhouse gases emissions."

Would anyone like to join with me on a class action lawsuit against EGAT and Burns and Roe - claiming malfeasance in their collusion on that expensive bogus report? Thai taxpayers paid for that report indirectly. That 175 million baht was a clear waste of money by a government/public owned Thai company - on a ruse that fooled nobody.

[James3212]

riveting photos indeed. I'm sure I'm not the 1st to say it looks like a tactical military strike. If this had happened to a US N plant, the Arabs would be dancing and celebrating in the streets.

Just a year ago, EGAT published a summary of their 175 million baht 'Feasibility Report' for whether Thailand should go nuclear. The whole thing, of course, was a farce, as the recipient (Burns and Roe Asia, Ltd.) of that money knew beforehand what Apisit Patchimpattapong, Ph.D. and other heads of EGAT wanted to see. Indeed, the contract was probably 200 million, and EGAT heads could have easily put 25 million in to their deep pockets.

Here's a quote showcased in the report's summary: ""Nuclear power has an excellent safety record" Source: H-Holger Rogner, Head of Planning & Economic Studies, Dept. of Nuclear Energy, IAEA, 2010

And the overall summary of that report: "Nuclear power is reliable, low and stable cost, and has no greenhouse gases emissions."

Would anyone like to join with me on a class action lawsuit against EGAT and Burns and Roe - claiming malfeasance in their collusion on that expensive bogus report? Thai taxpayers paid for that report indirectly. That 175 million baht was a clear waste of money by a government/public owned Thai company - on a ruse that fooled nobody.

I would like to join you since Thai people are getting robbed, but I might be a mere "farang" ... I think we all should protest against this if they really decide to build this... Thailand has excellent conditions for solar power i think... Just think of each house in the boonies... They don't spend much electricity at all as well... Even one smaller solar panel on the house would suffice for running the pad lom and the tv... But then again the power co's would lose lots of profits from selling that electricity, unless they are willing to invest in the solar powerplant which would be better here really. I would gladly double my electricity bill (what we are paying in apartments anyways instead of government's 3 baht, its usually 6 baht or more in apartments so i would pay 12 baht or more if needed ) if that power was generated by solar panels.

But i think that what is really scary for power companies is that most of the people later will be producing their own power from their own solar panels, especially when solar panels become more efficient and cheaper, so then the power companies might cease to exist.., Right now the companies sell the electricity to the people and people just blindly follow them and pay for their electricity... And i repeat, as soon as i get my own house im getting the solar panels for myself as well... going to be cheaper also in the long run

[unblocktheplanet]

I think we might all get a better handle on these confusing, and sometimes conflicting, standards from this info, from research by Josh Wallace in Montreal. It would be useful if anyone would try to put this in simpler terms.

Radiation equivalencies

Sievert 'Sv' The sievert (Sv), the SI unit of dose equivalent, is the dose equivalent when the absorbed dose of ionizing radiation multiplied by the stipulated dimensionless factors is 1 J kg⁻¹.

Biological aspects of radiation

1 Sv = 1 J kg⁻¹ = 100 rem

1 Gy = 1 Sv x w

(weighting factor specific to each type of radiation and tissue)

Sv = 1 J / kg of absorbing material • w

1 Sv = 10 Bq

1 Sv = 100 rd

1 Sv = 1 rem

1 Sv = 1 Ci x 3.7 x 10-¹⁰

Rad 'rd' The former unit (before the Gray), the rad (rd), is equal to 10⁻² Gy

1 rd = 10⁻² Gy

Rem 'rem' The former unit of dose equivalent, the rem (originally an acronym for roentgen equivalent man), is equal to 10⁻² Sv.

1 rem = 10⁻² Sv

Becquerel 'Bq' The Becquerel (Bq), the SI unit of activity, is the activity of a radionuclide decaying at a rate, on average, of one spontaneous nuclear transition per second

1 Bq = 1 S^-1

Curie 'Ci' The former unit, the Curie (Ci), is equal to 3.7 × 10¹⁰ Bq. The Curie was originally chosen to approximate the activity of 1 gram of radium–226.

1 Ci = 37,000,000,000 Bq

The Curie was originally chosen to approximate the activity of 1 gram of Radium–226.

Ci = 3.7 × 10¹⁰ Bq

1 Ci = 37,000,000,000 Bq

Gray 'Gy' The Gray (Gy), the SI unit of absorbed dose, is the absorbed dose when the energy per unit mass imparted to matter by ionizing radiation is 1 joule per kilogram.

Physical aspects of radiation.

1 Gy = 1 Sv x w

(weighting factor specific to each type of radiation and tissue)

1 Gy = 1 J / kg of absorbing material

Roentgen 'R' In Si units, exposure to ionizing radiation is expressed in coulombs per kilogram, the quantity of X- or gamma-radiation that produces ion pairs carrying 1 Coulomb of charge in 1 kilogram of pure dry air. The former unit, the roentgen ®, is equal to 2.58 × 10⁻⁴ C kg⁻¹.

R = 2.58 × 10⁻⁴ C kg⁻¹.

100 R/hr = 1 Sv/hr

http://science.jrank...tion-units.html

1 Sv = 1 J kg^-1 = 1 Gy/w = 10 Bq = 100 rd/w = 100 rem = 1 Ci x 3.7 x 10-¹⁰ = 1,000 mSv = 1,000,000 µSv

1 Sv/hr = / 100 R/hr

http://en.wikipedia....round_radiation

Total average background radiation = 2.4 msV/yr

Human-generated background portion of that radiation = .005 msV/yr

Average exposure from medical testing = 0.04 –> 1 mSv/yr

Chest x-ray = 0.06 mSv

CT scan = up to 20 mSv

Ramsar Iran background radiation = 260 mSv (This high level of radiation does not seem to have caused ill effects on the residents of the area and even possibly has made them slightly more radioresistant)

Airline crew extra radiation = 2.2 mSv/yr

1963 background radiation from nuclear testing = 0.15 mSV/yr

2000 background radiation from nuclear testing = 0.005 mSv/yr

Total average exposure = 3.6 mSv/yr

Ocean by Fukushima (« 4,000 times above acceptable levels ») = 450 mSv

Chernobyl reactor core = 30,000 R/hr = 300 Sv/hr

Chernobyl concrete mixing unit = 100 mSv/hr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster)

Fukushima water in plant = 2-6 Sv

Radioactivity in Fukushima water = 3.9 MBq/ml (2 Bq = 1 Sv ?)

Nanaimo (British Columbia Canada, this city faces the Gulf of Georgia north of Puget Sound not the open Pacific) background radioactivity = 0.35-0.49 mSv (perhaps should be µSv ?) http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=b71a1d02-329f-40c5-b112-77df0e0b9ed1&p=2

Levels at Nanaimo after tsunami 0.39-0.41

526 Becquerels per kilogram (fish halfway between Fukushima and Tokyo)

2,000 Becquerels of iodine 131 per kilogram = "safe level"

200,000 Becquerels per cubic centimeter, or five million times the legal limit near water intake for number reactor at Fukushima (=0.04bq/ml = legal limit)

http://www.nytimes.c...ref=global-home (last three items)

1,000 cubic centimeters = 1,000 ml = 1 liter

Iitate, 25 miles (40 kilometers) northwest of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex. The readings ranged as high as 3.7 megaBecquerels per square meter.

if large areas are contaminated with 0.5 megaBecquerels per square meter or more, "evacuation could be for the long term"

http://cosmiclog.msn...ll-change-japan

He said "the long-term response to Fukushima will have to be pragmatic." Radiation exposure limits for the general public might have to be relaxed, for example, going from 1 milliSievert per year to 5 to 10 milliSieverts per year. Smith noted that millions of people living in areas of high natural radioactivity are exposed to more than 10 milliSieverts per year.

In an evacuated area, lake fish contained tens of thousands of Becquerrels per kilogram. A couple in their early 70s lived near the lake, eating the fish and growing vegetables. They were living off contaminated land, but leading the life they had chosen to lead. This wouldn't by any means be the right choice for everybody, but I am convinced they had made the right decision for them: They were Chernobyl survivors, not victims."

http://cosmiclog.msn...ll-change-japan

A clear trace reaching out 30–40 kilometres northwest of the plant marked a zone of dose rate above 125 microSieverts per hour, a level at which immediate evacuation is often advised. (=1.095Sv/yr or about 300 times normal background levels).

http://www.nature.co...ll/472007a.html

If large areas are contaminated with 0.5 MBq m^–2 or more, evacuation could be for the long term. After Chernobyl, long-term evacuation usually occurred in areas with radioactivity above 0.55 MBq m^–2

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reports Caesium-137 deposition ranging from 0.02 to 3.7 megaBecquerels per square metre (MBq m^–2) at sites 25–58 kilometres from the Fukushima plant.

http://www.nature.co...ll/472007a.html

2,000 tons of water / 4 million lbs. of water / 700,000 gallons of water = 1 Olympic-sized swimming pool of water (approximately)

110 Becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in seawater samples collected 30 meters from outlets in the northern part of the complex. The figure is 2,800 times higher than the maximum allowed under government standards. Measurements at the same spot were 600 times the standard on Tuesday and 1,000 times on Wedneday. (=.04 bq/ml = legal limit)

http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/08_39.html

Edited April 16, 2011 by unblocktheplanet

[unblocktheplanet]

Would anyone like to join with me on a class action lawsuit against EGAT and Burns and Roe - claiming malfeasance in their collusion on that expensive bogus report? Thai taxpayers paid for that report indirectly. That 175 million baht was a clear waste of money by a government/public owned Thai company - on a ruse that fooled nobody.

Class action does not exist in Thai law. Nevertheless, I do think that such action could be taken in the country where Burns & Roe are located--USA?

Yes, I'll join and help with planning such a suit, in Thailand and overseas.

[brahmburgers]

Would anyone like to join with me on a class action lawsuit against EGAT and Burns and Roe - claiming malfeasance in their collusion on that expensive bogus report? Thai taxpayers paid for that report indirectly. That 175 million baht was a clear waste of money by a government/public owned Thai company - on a ruse that fooled nobody.

Class action does not exist in Thai law. Nevertheless, I do think that such action could be taken in the country where Burns & Roe are located--USA?

Yes, I'll join and help with planning such a suit, in Thailand and overseas.

ok, probably won't really happen. But just discussing it, as we are, might spread the idea back to Burns and Roe's head office in New Jersey. When big shot businesses hear even a rumor of a lawsuit against them, they get fidgety. Well, Burns and Roe deserve to get a lot more than fidgety - they took nearly $6 million for a report with a foregone conclusion - a report paid indirectly by Thai taxpayers and ratepayers. Not only that, the report was just plain faulty. Maybe I'm a bit jealous. I mean, if EGAT had dangled Bt.175 million in my face asking me to write a report that they dictated to me ("Nuclear is clean, safe and cheap") I probably would have grabbed the money also.

[brahmburgers]

sorry to post twice in a row, but I just thought about how there are some 'silver linings' to Japan's nuclear problem.

>>>> Since Asians in general, and Chinese in particular are so dazzled by sharks fin soup, perhaps their awareness of the inevitable radiation stored in shark fins will dampen the trade, and give sharks a break.

>>>> Similarly, radiation will get concentrated in other marine species which are high up the food chain: dolphins, whales, tuna - and lessening their harvest will give then some chance to replenish their numbers. Same for species which are low on the food chain, like albacore and smaller fish.

....maybe. I don't know. Will the Chinese and Japanese give credence to the likelihood that seafood will now become irradiated? And if so, will that slow their habits of ingesting such things en masse? Time will tell.

For the past decade, tuna populations have gone dangerously low in the Mediterranean (and elsewhere) because of the insatiable demand and highest prices paid by Japanese. Shark fins, served in upscale Chinese and Bangkok restaurants, are scalped off all sorts of sharks, even docile whale sharks, with the scalped fish left to slowly die in the sea. The Japanese also play a game about pretending to do scientific research on Minke whales, in order to harvest hundreds of whales each year, thereby skirting international bans on killing whales. The Japanese are also known for slaughtering thousands of porpoises dolphins each year, though most of the world's fishermen leave those species alone.

The biggest 'silver lining' to the Japan's N disaster is it will dampen their and other countries enthusiasm for building nuke plants.

[elcent]

Would anyone like to join with me on a class action lawsuit against EGAT and Burns and Roe - claiming malfeasance in their collusion on that expensive bogus report? Thai taxpayers paid for that report indirectly. That 175 million baht was a clear waste of money by a government/public owned Thai company - on a ruse that fooled nobody.

Class action does not exist in Thai law. Nevertheless, I do think that such action could be taken in the country where Burns & Roe are located--USA?

Yes, I'll join and help with planning such a suit, in Thailand and overseas.

ok, probably won't really happen. But just discussing it, as we are, might spread the idea back to Burns and Roe's head office in New Jersey. When big shot businesses hear even a rumor of a lawsuit against them, they get fidgety. Well, Burns and Roe deserve to get a lot more than fidgety - they took nearly $6 million for a report with a foregone conclusion - a report paid indirectly by Thai taxpayers and ratepayers. Not only that, the report was just plain faulty. Maybe I'm a bit jealous. I mean, if EGAT had dangled Bt.175 million in my face asking me to write a report that they dictated to me ("Nuclear is clean, safe and cheap") I probably would have grabbed the money also.

Great investigations brahm. I'll be back tomorrow to discuss that.

I always knew that there's big time CORRUPTION involved. You can look it up in previous posts I've made. So lets get them down. Sure here are/were some posters that are involved in that scam.

Thanks for the information.

[elcent]

here are some related links I found in a quick search

http://www.roe.com/n...p?ArticleID=155 - Bangkok office opening

http://www.recruit.n...A68915C11B1A218 looking for mechanical engineer - power plant design

other jobs Power Consulting Senior Resident Executive Director (Thailand) http://www.roe.com/c...ings.asp?ID=178

http://investing.bus...ivcapId=4773296 - bloomberg link

http://investing.bus...ivcapId=4773296 people to look for.

Edited April 17, 2011 by elcent

[brahmburgers]

here are some related links I found in a quick search

http://www.roe.com/n...p?ArticleID=155 - Bangkok office opening

http://www.recruit.n...A68915C11B1A218 looking for mechanical engineer - power plant design

other jobs Power Consulting Senior Resident Executive Director (Thailand) http://www.roe.com/c...ings.asp?ID=178

http://investing.bus...ivcapId=4773296 - bloomberg link

http://investing.bus...ivcapId=4773296 people to look for.

I can imagine what the job description for "Power Consulting" would be: Show your degree. We'll show you the text that EGAT wants in the Feasibility Report. You copy the text, and make it look important. We hand it to EGAT. They pay us 175 million baht, everybody's happy.

Addendum: It's rare for a Thai corp to use an odd number like 175 for a big ticket item. It's possible the actual price for the feasibility report was a round number like 200, and it may have happened that 25 million baht somehow got misplaced in the shuffling of papers.

If you don't believe me, try something like this next time you happen to sell something to a Thai person (or anyone, for that matter). Let's say you have an item you're selling that's worth roughly Bt.200,000. You tell the buyer you want 214,000 baht for it. He's going to look at you askance and say, 'how about I pay you 200,000.' It can work the other way. If a Thai wants to sell a bit ticket item to you without a marked price. You offer 188,000 baht, he's surely going to think you're weird, and come back with a round number like 200,000 or 250,000.

All kidding aside, here are actual excepts of the requirements for whomever got the job to write the Feasibility Report.

"The Senior Resident Executive Director in Bangkok, Thailand is responsible for completing the Burns and Roe Feasibility Study Project for EGAT."

Given that Burns and Roe has defined the Southeast Asia region, including Thailand as a core business source with strategic clients such as the Vietnamese Govt, Malaysian Govt and Thai Government and EGAT, the Senior Resident Executive Director in Bangkok is responsible for nuclear power business development in Thailand. He is expected to develop marketing strategies for nuclear and fossil power projects in Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia based on program plans of the Thai, Vietnamese and Malaysian Governments defining specific business opportunities for Burns and Roe.

He will coordinate the proposal follow-on negotiations leading to new projects contracts for Burns and Roe.

He will provide new project oversight to ensure the objectives of Burns and Roe management and the Client are met and that the profitability and Client satisfaction objectives are also met.

BB's comment: is it just me, or is there a conflict of interests in the job description. On the one hand, the person is to write the Feasibility Report which, one would assume, should be an objective report designed to gauge the feasibility of Thailand going nuclear.

In the following paragraphs, the job description for the same person goes on and on describing how to gain contracts and maximize profits for Burns and Roe, which is in the business of engineering nuclear power plants.

Edited April 17, 2011 by brahmburgers

[Robby nz]

I see a report in another publication that the power company involved say they will be at the stage of a 'Cold Shutdown' in between 6 to 9 months.

Dreams????

[midas]

Radiation detected in drinking water in 13 more US cities and

Caesium-137 detected in Vermont milk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDcZMgDWRkU

[StreetCowboy]

Radiation detected in drinking water in 13 more US cities and

Caesium-137 detected in Vermont milk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nDcZMgDWRkU

If you look hard enough, you can find anything, anywhere; except diaries in Pattaya, apparently.

All drinking water will contain radiation; of more interest might be the quantity and nature of radioactive material contained; or at least the quantity and nature of radiation emitted.

SC

Alarms without quantification or specific reference are mere hysteria. If I lived in 13 US cities, I might be tempted to panic hysterically over this....

[midas]

Radiation detected in drinking water in 13 more US cities and

Caesium-137 detected in Vermont milk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nDcZMgDWRkU

If you look hard enough, you can find anything, anywhere; except diaries in Pattaya, apparently.

All drinking water will contain radiation; of more interest might be the quantity and nature of radioactive material contained; or at least the quantity and nature of radiation emitted.

SC

Alarms without quantification or specific reference are mere hysteria. If I lived in 13 US cities, I might be tempted to panic hysterically over this....

how about San Francisco Rainwater: Radiation 181 Times Above US Drinking Water Standard ?

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-rainwater-radiation-181-times-above-us-drinking-water-standard-2011-4#ixzz1JnENdyei

[brahmburgers]

I see a report in another publication that the power company involved say they will be at the stage of a 'Cold Shutdown' in between 6 to 9 months.

Dreams????

"the stage of a 'Cold Shutdown'" is a wishy washy statement which means nothing. It's like if your mother asks you whether your clothes are clean and you tell her; "they're in a stage of being laundered."

[Chopperboy]

FUKUSHIMA, JAPAN — Even as it struggled to contain the world’s worst nuclear disaster in a quarter-century, Tokyo Electric Power Co. late last month quietly set out big plans for the future: It proposed building two new nuclear reactors at its radiation-spewing Fukushima Daiichi power plant.

“It was just unbelievable,” said Yoichi Nozaki, director general of Fukushima’s Planning and Coordination Department, which oversees energy matters here in the capital of the region most blighted by the biggest nuclear debacle since Chernobyl.

The disarray has sharpened a question that has dogged Tepco since the tsunami slammed into its Fukushima plant: Has the scale of the disaster triggered a managerial meltdown, or is the world’s largest private electric utility simply sticking to the aloof, heedless habits of a corporate behemoth accustomed to getting its way?

Tepco announced that four reactors at the center of the crisis at Fukushima Daiichi will never go back into service. At the same time, it submitted its report to METI that included a proposed timetable for constructing and commissioning two reactors — No. 7 and No. 8 — at the same complex.