Statistics, Where Are The Statistics ?

[bangkokcitylimits]

I absolutely love statistics, graphs... about anything really, but where are the statistics about Thailand ?

Never seen any... Did anyone ?

[mstribling]

I read on Stickman that you have an 80% chance of losing over 2/3rd your money, half of the time.

Seriously. I'm sure Thai websites have all of that.

Farang websites are more for sex and vacations, or sex vacations.

[PattayaParent]

90% of all statistics are made up and the other 10% are the statistical variance and so are inaccurate.

[mark45y]

I have been reading Thai news for a few years now and I have come to the conclusion they have no meaningful statistics and never have had any.

The unofficial economy is so broad and pervasive that no economic statistics make any sense.

Population statistics, you gotta be kidding.

I can tell you how many bars are in Cleveland with plus or minus .01% accuracy. How many bars are in Pattaya? I don't think anyone knows within 5000. I don't even think you could get anyone to agree on what a bar is, let alone how many there are.

Think of how many people could use that information. All sorts of government and tourist agencies and marketing and advertising businesses and suppliers of the industry. But no one knows.

It is not just bars. How many businesses run off that electrical outlet? Oh, I don't know on Monday there is a bar, two noodle shops and a stuffed animal seller. On Wednesday a CD shop. Chinese mobile temple and two bird sellers. You get the idea.

Thais defend themselves by being confusing and then acting dumb. Or acting dumb and then being confusing. During WW II Half of the American OSS was hidden in Bangkok right under the nose of the Japanese and the Japanese are pretty smart people as a rule. That is why the American spies got along so well with the Thais and the Brits had problems with them. The Americans didn't care and the Thais didn't know. The Brits both cared and knew but the Thais still didn't know. So there you go. At the end of WW II there was nary a Brit to be seen anywhere but the Yanks were all over the place. The DEA is all over Thailand and has been since the 1950's. Accurate statistics? They don't have any. They really don't care and the Thais don't know. Same with all of the NGO's. If you want to be a successful NGO in Thailand the first requisite is not caring, because no one is going to give you any accurate data.

[mstribling]

I always thought NGO's just made up their stats when looking for money.

[rijb]

Here are weather reports based on a statistical analysis of historical records from 1974 to 2011. Bangkok weather

Enjoy

[eefoo]

Here are weather reports based on a statistical analysis of historical records from 1974 to 2011. Bangkok weather

Enjoy

Very informative link. Thank you.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Here are weather reports based on a statistical analysis of historical records from 1974 to 2011. Bangkok weather

Enjoy

Interesting, never seen a website like this. It looks more like a computer program then a website... amazing...

On my birthday halfway the sixties, in Bangkok it was cloudy from 11am. tingtong...

(do they really keep all this data ???)

Edited March 31, 2011 by bangkokcitylimits

[bangkokcitylimits]

Found one !

[thaihome]

Some of the ones in English. There are hundreds more available in Thai

Bank of Thailand

Board of Investment

2010 Census

[F1fanatic]

I read on Stickman that you have an 80% chance of losing over 2/3rd your money, half of the time.

Seriously. I'm sure Thai websites have all of that.

Farang websites are more for sex and vacations, or sex vacations.

Stickman's comments sound about right - certainly true in my case.

[samran]

Some of the ones in English. There are hundreds more available in Thai

Bank of Thailand

Board of Investment

2010 Census

yeah, but don't you realise that all these statistics are all false and unreliable? You know, according to the prevailing thought here amongst TV members, Thai's are pretty stupid folk who don't know how to do very much.

[mark45y]

Some of the ones in English. There are hundreds more available in Thai

Bank of Thailand

Board of Investment

2010 Census

yeah, but don't you realise that all these statistics are all false and unreliable? You know, according to the prevailing thought here amongst TV members, Thai's are pretty stupid folk who don't know how to do very much.

I think you know I don't feel that way but I would like to know how many bars are in Pattaya.

[thaihome]

I think you know I don't feel that way but I would like to know how many bars are in Pattaya.

No, it is obvious you do feel that way and your posts here and other threads shows your contempt for Thais.

How do you know how many bars are in Cleveland? What makes you think it would be any different to get the data here?

Just curious, is this the first developing country you have ever lived in?

TH

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Wander through these for a bit:

http://web.nso.go.th/pop2000/pop_e2000.htm

http://web.nso.go.th/eng/en/stat/indus/indus00.htm

Mac

[mark45y]

I think you know I don't feel that way but I would like to know how many bars are in Pattaya.

No, it is obvious you do feel that way and your posts here and other threads shows your contempt for Thais.

How do you know how many bars are in Cleveland? What makes you think it would be any different to get the data here?

Just curious, is this the first developing country you have ever lived in?

TH

When I was 18 I lived in the Bahamas. When in my 20's I lived in Vietnam.

I can get a total of bars, both bars that only serve beer and/or liquor by checking licenses in any city in the US. They are a matter of public record. I can get records of bars that play music and ones that don't or have dancing or don't or have exotic dancers. Easy just go to the court house it's all on file. Same for restaurants, take out food places or vending carts.

And apparently you don't read my posts about the Thai military.

[tolsti]

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

[MSingh]

But no one knows.

Not only does no one know, but no one seems to care a great deal, about anything really..

I often think of Thailand, as much as i like it, as a place that is just a " get out " of the real World, a " get out " of normalness if that's a word..

It scares the sh*t out of me when i think how long i've actually been here now..

Edit : I once got into a conversation about how many Bars there were in Pattaya with a Thai Guy, he told me there was 21,000.

I asked him how he knew that, he said he didn't know.

Edited March 31, 2011 by MSingh

[mstribling]

I agree. Here some tend to tune out. Myself included to an extent, I imagine the longer I live, and live here the less I'll actually give a crap.

OP: I read elsewhere, it may have been here on TV. That something like 99% of the buffalo in Kalasin have never been sick.

If you REALLY like stats. Try Poi Pet.

[sunholidaysun1]

Im 99% sure someone will help you here.

[samran]

I think you know I don't feel that way but I would like to know how many bars are in Pattaya.

No, it is obvious you do feel that way and your posts here and other threads shows your contempt for Thais.

How do you know how many bars are in Cleveland? What makes you think it would be any different to get the data here?

Just curious, is this the first developing country you have ever lived in?

TH

Silly me Thaihome, the following type of comment must have led me astray.

I have been reading Thai news for a few years now and I have come to the conclusion they have no meaningful statistics and never have had any.

I don't know how this guy reaches his conclusion, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just doesn't know where to look.

NESDB, MOF, MOC, BOI, BOT, Department of Energy and Natural Resources...the list goes on.

Bloomberg, Thompson Reuters...an on we go.

Add to that basically any listed company on the Thai stock exchange, especially the bigger ones who release quarterly reports. Some are better than others, but a good source if you keep digging.

What else, oh yes, even the local ampur should have statistics on how many bars are registered. But, certain people get by with their 5 words of Thai, and thus rely on the cr@p that is fed to them via the BKK post and Nation, written by underpaid cadet journalists who frankly know nothing.

[mark45y]

I think you know I don't feel that way but I would like to know how many bars are in Pattaya.

No, it is obvious you do feel that way and your posts here and other threads shows your contempt for Thais.

How do you know how many bars are in Cleveland? What makes you think it would be any different to get the data here?

Just curious, is this the first developing country you have ever lived in?

TH

Silly me Thaihome, the following type of comment must have led me astray.

I have been reading Thai news for a few years now and I have come to the conclusion they have no meaningful statistics and never have had any.

I don't know how this guy reaches his conclusion, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just doesn't know where to look.

NESDB, MOF, MOC, BOI, BOT, Department of Energy and Natural Resources...the list goes on.

Bloomberg, Thompson Reuters...an on we go.

Add to that basically any listed company on the Thai stock exchange, especially the bigger ones who release quarterly reports. Some are better than others, but a good source if you keep digging.

What else, oh yes, even the local ampur should have statistics on how many bars are registered. But, certain people get by with their 5 words of Thai, and thus rely on the cr@p that is fed to them via the BKK post and Nation, written by underpaid cadet journalists who frankly know nothing.

The grey economy is so large as to make any economic statistics invalid. The unchecked illegal immigration is such a large number so as to make census data unreliable. The illegal bars and quasi bars are so many so as to make license totals invalid.

[thaihome]

[The grey economy is so large as to make any economic statistics invalid. The unchecked illegal immigration is such a large number so as to make census data unreliable. The illegal bars and quasi bars are so many so as to make license totals invalid.

How do you know this?

Have you looked at how economic statistics are compiled if they include amounts for what you call the “grey economy”?

Unchecked illegal immigration? How do you know how many illegal immigrants there are? How do you even know if you see a Burmese or Cambodian working if they are illegal or not?

How do you know if a bar is an “illegal bars and quasi bars”? Do you go a look at to see if the bar has their license every time you go into one? Do you even know anything about licensing and permitting for bars or any business in Thailand?

Your agenda is patently obvious and your denials are disingenuous and just pathetic.,

TH

[mark45y]

[The grey economy is so large as to make any economic statistics invalid. The unchecked illegal immigration is such a large number so as to make census data unreliable. The illegal bars and quasi bars are so many so as to make license totals invalid.

How do you know this?

Have you looked at how economic statistics are compiled if they include amounts for what you call the “grey economy”?

Unchecked illegal immigration? How do you know how many illegal immigrants there are? How do you even know if you see a Burmese or Cambodian working if they are illegal or not?

How do you know if a bar is an “illegal bars and quasi bars”? Do you go a look at to see if the bar has their license every time you go into one? Do you even know anything about licensing and permitting for bars or any business in Thailand?

Your agenda is patently obvious and your denials are disingenuous and just pathetic.,

TH

I studied economics in college and know quite a bit about gray market economies. I would have not mentioned it if I did not know something about it.

It is one of the reasons Thailand has such a resilient economy. The off the books banking business here is fascinating. China has a giant gray market and that is one reason why no one believes Chinese economic data. It has a big black market too but I have not even mentioned the black market. How much ya ba was sold in Thailand last year? How many cartons of smuggled cigarettes? How many designer knock offs in clothes and electronics?

Illegal immigration is a fact of life in the Thai construction industry and many others. Debate this till the cows come home but you know I am correct.

Illegal bars? That's my business. I know all about it.

You have a chip on your shoulder that is getting in the way of your eyesight.

I imagine you live in Thailand but you must wear blinders. I assume you are married to a Thai woman but she must not talk to you.

That little corner shop that sells gasoline, vegetables and serves Ya Dong by the shot is not legal and you know it's not legal. When your wife invests in a share group for interest bearing loans you know that is off the books. Ya Dong and Lao Khow are not legal. They are bootlegged booze. How much is sold daily in Thailand. It is off the books and not taxed. This can't be a surprise to you if you live in Thailand.

When you see the Burmese people living next to the construction site in shacks you know they are not legal.

Just multiply what you see by a couple of million because it is the same in almost every Thai town.

In Pattaya it would take me about an hour to drive you around and point out 100 illegal bars to you. They are everywhere. If you live in Pattaya let me know and I will tell you where to go.

I am not trying to con you nor am I lying to you. Take off your blinders and look around your own town for a minute. Do you think that lady that does laundry pays taxes? Or the noodle shop on wheels? Or the ice cream vendor? Or the weekend flea market and the weekly markets all over Thailand. All of that is off the books.

Like I said, don't believe me. Take a walk around your town for a week and estimate how many things are sold with no records kept.

In the US, UK and Australia when you sell something and when you buy something you have to keep records and pay taxes. Most purchases are made with check or credit card. A record exists of almost all transactions. I can live in Thailand 100% cash. My phone, my rent, my utilities everything is cash. I transferred a million baht from one bank branch to another. You know what the bank did? They withdrew a million baht and gave it to me to count and then I gave it back to the guy and he counted it again and deposited it in my account. They couldn't even make a paper transaction from one branch of the same bank to another of the same bank it had to be cash.

[jazzbo]

The fact that M45 was so ably to identify and describe key elements of the gray market in Thailand means that those elements could be adequately compensated for in the overall statistical picture ... or 'fudge factor' as I believe the statisticians call it.

Edited April 1, 2011 by jazzbo

[samran]

^^

Those Burmese workers are generally on work permits. Thailand runs what is called a migrant labour programme which allows people from Burma, Laos and Cambodia to work in Thailand on renewable 2 year work permits. It gives them access to social services. It is well known and pretty well regulated.

As for the small shops, noodle vendors etc. I suspect you'll find that a majority of them are registered as Sole Traders. Easy to register, allows you to write off 80 to 90% of your revenue as costs with no evidence. The rest is taxed at your marginal income. Tax return is barely longer than one page.

Yes, plenty outside the system. But, the boffins at the MOF and MOC have statisical tools to estimate those errors. If you seriously studied economics, you'll know there are econometric tools for this.

[mstribling]

Most all of the Khmer fruit pickers in E. Thailand are off the books, and illegal.

However...

I don't doubt they have a handle on all this revenue. They seem to be on the ball on every other government project. I doubt they would mess this up.

[mark45y]

^^

Those Burmese workers are generally on work permits. Thailand runs what is called a migrant labour programme which allows people from Burma, Laos and Cambodia to work in Thailand on renewable 2 year work permits. It gives them access to social services. It is well known and pretty well regulated.

As for the small shops, noodle vendors etc. I suspect you'll find that a majority of them are registered as Sole Traders. Easy to register, allows you to write off 80 to 90% of your revenue as costs with no evidence. The rest is taxed at your marginal income. Tax return is barely longer than one page.

Yes, plenty outside the system. But, the boffins at the MOF and MOC have statisical tools to estimate those errors. If you seriously studied economics, you'll know there are econometric tools for this.

Few serious economists study the Thai economy nor dwell on it daily, too small. But they do study the Chinese economy and report on it daily.

They use measurements like electricity usage instead of GDP figures because it is accurate.

If you have a small Thai business you also know how the Thai IRS measures income. It is just silly.

Nothing here is accurate. It costs 160 baht to register a small store and noodle shop and 120 baht a year in taxes. I did it a couple of months ago.

The gray or black market economies are not added into the GDP numbers.

The average Thai family with vegetable patch and chickens, shopping at local markets and eating at local restaurants and buying gas in quart whiskey bottles, tell me what % of their expenditures are on the books?

[thaihome]

[....I imagine you live in Thailand but you must wear blinders. I assume you are married to a Thai woman but she must not talk to you.

...

All that has been proven in this thread (and several others) is that you are the one that appears to be wearing blinders.

TH

[SteeleJoe]

I have been reading Thai news for a few years now and I have come to the conclusion they have no meaningful statistics and never have had any.

The unofficial economy is so broad and pervasive that no economic statistics make any sense.

Population statistics, you gotta be kidding.

I can tell you how many bars are in Cleveland with plus or minus .01% accuracy. How many bars are in Pattaya? I don't think anyone knows within 5000. I don't even think you could get anyone to agree on what a bar is, let alone how many there are.

Think of how many people could use that information. All sorts of government and tourist agencies and marketing and advertising businesses and suppliers of the industry. But no one knows.

It is not just bars. How many businesses run off that electrical outlet? Oh, I don't know on Monday there is a bar, two noodle shops and a stuffed animal seller. On Wednesday a CD shop. Chinese mobile temple and two bird sellers. You get the idea.

Thais defend themselves by being confusing and then acting dumb. Or acting dumb and then being confusing. During WW II Half of the American OSS was hidden in Bangkok right under the nose of the Japanese and the Japanese are pretty smart people as a rule. That is why the American spies got along so well with the Thais and the Brits had problems with them. The Americans didn't care and the Thais didn't know. The Brits both cared and knew but the Thais still didn't know. So there you go. At the end of WW II there was nary a Brit to be seen anywhere but the Yanks were all over the place. The DEA is all over Thailand and has been since the 1950's. Accurate statistics? They don't have any. They really don't care and the Thais don't know. Same with all of the NGO's. If you want to be a successful NGO in Thailand the first requisite is not caring, because no one is going to give you any accurate data.

During WW II Half of the American OSS was hidden in Bangkok...

Err...I suspect that might be a bit off.

The DEA is all over Thailand and has been since the 1950's.

The DEA has only existed since 1973.

Don't really understand your references even if they were accurate -- what does the presence of the OSS or the DEA have to do with the OP?