03/31/2011

Adam's War

The Good Boy and the 'Kill Team'

By John Goetz and Marc Hujer

In an e-mail sent to his father, US Army specialist Adam Winfield wrote: "Terrible things are happening here. But I cannot talk about it."

Photo Gallery: 8 Photos

U.S. Army / REUTERS

Six years after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, American soldiers are once again being held accountable for alleged war crimes in court. The "kill team" is accused of killing civilians for pure fun and of degrading their victims by taking trophy photos.

It was shortly before three o'clock in the afternoon in Cape Coral, Florida, when Christopher Winfield received a message from his son in Afghanistan. At first, it didn't even occur to him that 3 p.m. was an odd time to be getting a call from Afghanistan. He went into his office, sat himself down in front of his old Gateway computer and signed in to his Facebook account. The time in Afghanistan was shortly before midnight.

Winfield's son had told him that he should contact him discreetly via the social networking site, and not on the telephone, because no one in his camp would then be able to overhear their conversation. Winfield wondered if he should be worried. Adam, at age 21 Christopher Winfield's oldest son, was the driver of a four-axel Stryker tank at the Forward Operating Base (FOB) Ramrod, one of the most isolated and dangerous American military bases in Afghanistan. Adam's father was happy to hear from his son and to know he was alive. For the past three weeks, Winfield later said, he hadn't heard anything.

The 5 articles continue here:

http://www.spiegel.d...,754141,00.html

NOTE: the article consists of 5 Parts:

• Part 1: The Good Boy and the 'Kill Team'
• Part 2: The First Murder
• Part 3: 'The Reincarnation of Evil'
• Part 4: A Good Boy Turns into a Criminal
• Part 5: A Murderer or Victim of War?

LaoPo

Let me get my take on this out of the way first. It is my feeling there is no way something like this should take place by either US military personnel or any other military or civilian personnel.

Since this thread will very quickly degenerate into one that bashes the US government, military and citizens let me say the military has responded to this and has already sentenced one member to 24 years in Leavenworth, and he is the one that turned State's Evidence.

The others involved are awaiting military justice, which will very likely be extremely harsh. They have been in confinement since 2010.

They will be tried in accordance with the UCMJ.

Let me get my take on this out of the way first. It is my feeling there is no way something like this should take place by either US military personnel or any other military or civilian personnel.

Since this thread will very quickly degenerate into one that bashes the US government, military and citizens let me say the military has responded to this and has already sentenced one member to 24 years in Leavenworth, and he is the one that turned State's Evidence.

The others involved are awaiting military justice, which will very likely be extremely harsh. They have been in confinement since 2010.

They will be tried in accordance with the UCMJ.

I don't see any reason why any other member would bash upon "the US Government, military and citizens"...OTHER than upon the ones responsible for these despicable murders -FOR FUN!- on innocent civilian people in Afghanistan; and there are 12 soldiers responsible, including failing staff back home in the US when they failed to listen and act immediately upon the alarming father of one of the accused: Adam Winfield, who published about the situation on Facebook, not daring to speak out about the atrocities/murders (on Facebook).

If the responsible military and others would have reacted immediately, 2 more murders -for fun- on innocent civilian Afghans would not have happened.

The one that has to be praised is Cristopher Winfield, the father of Adam Winfield, for reacting and informing the necessary (military also) authorities in the US immediately

I am stunned that nothing has been published (as far as I know) on TV in world news.

But I'm even more stunned that this news was no-news at all for so long in the rest of the world, apart from the US and a bit in the UK (and now Germany), whilst it happened already in early 2010.

I am also surprised you knew about it but I never heard any of the (other) members here on TV speak about it? Why not ? Not important enough ?

If it would have been fellow country soldiers I would have exposed about this on TV at once but also if those soldiers would have been French, German or British and Australian for that matter.

It has nothing to do with bashing upon America.

Only after you (chuckd) wrote that one soldier had been sentenced to 24 years I searched and found out about it (see link) and only because he testified against his fellow soldiers he got away with a mere 24 years... (a.o. for three counts of murder...just for fun) :

"In a plea bargain, Morlock pleaded guilty to three counts of murder and one count each of conspiracy, illegal drug use, and obstructing justice. Colonel Hawks said that he intended to sentence Morlock to life in prison, but since Morlock agreed to testify against his fellow soldiers, the sentence was reduced to 24 years in prison."

US soldier Morlock sentenced to 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

From: http://www.csmonitor...fghan-civilians

What a tragic unneccessary civilian murders by a bunch of idiotic soldiers and I really hope that they will end up behind bars for the rest of their lives.

They "deserve" so.

LaoPo

What a tragic unneccessary civilian murders by a bunch of idiotic soldiers and I really hope that they will end up behind bars for the rest of their lives.

They "deserve" so.

keep on dreaming Lao Po! those soldiers will serve (perhaps) a few years and then will be out of Leavenworth. Lieutenant Calley (My Lai massacre)

quote: "A large group of about 70–80 villagers, rounded up by the 1st Platoon in the center of the village, were killed on an order given by Calley who also participated. Calley also shot two other large groups of civilians with a weapon taken from a soldier who had refused to do any further killing."

was sentenced to life in prison and "served" three years of house arrest.

We are the only species that kills for sport.

What a tragic unneccessary civilian murders by a bunch of idiotic soldiers and I really hope that they will end up behind bars for the rest of their lives.

They "deserve" so.

keep on dreaming Lao Po! those soldiers will serve (perhaps) a few years and then will be out of Leavenworth. Lieutenant Calley (My Lai massacre)

quote: "A large group of about 70–80 villagers, rounded up by the 1st Platoon in the center of the village, were killed on an order given by Calley who also participated. Calley also shot two other large groups of civilians with a weapon taken from a soldier who had refused to do any further killing."

was sentenced to life in prison and "served" three years of house arrest.

You're probably right; I am naive and still believe in the good will of our governments and justice departments; how silly.

BTW: the My Lai massacre in 1968 involved more than 500 murdered innocent villagers, many of them women and children....

But, its almost touching how sorry Lieutenant Calley feels sorry, 41 years AFTER the killings, when he publicly apologized FOR THE FIRST TIME:

"William Calley, the former Army lieutenant convicted on 22 counts of murder in the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, publicly apologized for the first time this week while speaking in Columbus.“There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai,” Calley told members of the Kiwanis Club of Greater Columbus on Wednesday. His voice started to break when he added, “I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry.”

Read more: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2009/08/21/813820/william-calley-apologizes-for.html#ixzz1IJhTqu85

But let's not derail away from the "fun" murders by the so called Kill Team; in fact those soldiers haven't learnt a thing from Abu Ghraib apart from one: the Abu Ghraib prisoners weren't murdered for fun, "just" tortured, humiliated and raped and filmed/photographed

One can only conclude that the Kill Team went all the way....and just for fun.

What a sick men, taking lives for fun.

I wonder how it would feel for any of those young men if they would witness a bunch of soldiers from some strange country and drag their father/mother/brother out of their house, back home in their own country, throw him/her in a ditch and throw a grenade at him/her after which he/ she's shot to "make sure" that he/she is finished..

Animals don't even do such things; they kill to survive; not for fun and they certainly don't take 4.000 (!) photos, also for later fun.

LaoPo

Very simply, one has to examine the foundation of what the pure essence of what a military is and forebear of the sound military training and conditioning. The military conditions those individuals to kill. Kill for the state. Nothing more, nothing less. And war....is "legal" murder/genocide for the state. We hang the disgusting emotional equal attachments to war and soldiering - patriotism, religion, goodness and light, romanticism, etc. Quite approved by most cultures throughout our wretched history.

Do you know of any society {country} that has a Department of Peace?

War is like an angry whore. She can be deadly and at the same time seductive.

We could take a kid who flew supply and medivac missions and in a few weeks turn him in to a killer Cobra pilot.

The kid was used to flying a lot and sleeping a little and people shooting at him that he couldn't see. He watched his crew and friends get killed. One day he cracked and walked into my office and said he wanted to fly Cobras.

Two kids and 2500 pounds of ammo. Killin is our business and business is good.

U.S. helicopters in Viet Nam flew 30.6 million sorties, 11 million flying hours, and hauled 4,500,000 tons of cargo.

40 years and it is still an important event in my life.

GF is going home for SongKran tomorrow and I'll head down and see my old lady friend from 40 years ago when we were both young. I guess in a way I am in jail and serving a life sentence because I am only a few minutes away from where I fought a war so many years ago. War is terrible, no excuse for it. I was upset when my daughter enlisted in the Air Force. She didn't need to see that stuff but she thought she did.

But you are alive during war. Nothing else like it. No booze or drugs equals the rush.

I don't know what happens to people. I don't know what makes some go nuts and others go through incredibly bad things and stay sane.

I know young men make friends in the army that are as close to them as mothers and sisters and when they get killed they snap.

I didn't make any friends in the Army. Not one. When I was discharged I walked out without saying goodbye to anyone. I missed a few women I knew in Vietnam, Taipei and Thailand.

I don't know how to explain American behavior in the above post. Every country during was does things that are terrible. Imagine the worst thing you have ever heard of an American soldier I can tell you a story of VC or North Vietnamese doing worse. That is the nature of war.

There is only one way to have an even a partial understanding of it. You have to go to war. You may know right from wrong and have a wonderful understanding of tactics and technology but unless you are there you really don't understand what is going on.

"..... an angry whore. She can be deadly and at the same time seductive......"

I've never known an angry whore.....but I'm sure I wouldn't find her to be seductive.

"..... an angry whore. She can be deadly and at the same time seductive......"

I've never known an angry whore.....but I'm sure I wouldn't find her to be seductive.

You are missing one of the more esoteric adventures in sex. Anger is just another emotion. It does all the same things as fear or love but in a slightly different way. There is an Italian movie called Seven Beauties where an Italian prisoner of war is forced to have sex with the Nazi female prison warden. The Italian director Lina Wertmüller does great things with anger and sex.

She is one of my favorite directors of movies that have words in them. My favorite is Swept Away. American film critic Roger Ebert gave the movie four stars, his highest rating. The Village Voice, called it "possibly the most outrageously misogynist film ever made by a woman." If you are going to see it though watch it in Italian, the translation loses too much.

Put those two on your must see list, Seven Beauties and Swept Away.

We are the only species that kills for sport.

Obviously, you haven't met my 3 cats!

We are the only species that kills for sport.

Obviously, you haven't met my 3 cats!

or my two killer dogs.

There is an Italian movie called Seven Beauties where an Italian prisoner of war is forced to have sex with the Nazi female prison warden. The Italian director Lina Wertmüller does great things with anger and sex.

<snip>

Put those two on your must see list, Seven Beauties and Swept Away.

Weird taste you have, writing in a topic where soldiers murdered innocent civilians for fun, advising other members to watch such sadistic movies too...

LaoPo

Chuck was made aware of this in the other topic about if a person is a terrorist when he is a Muslim or had a case of Muslin thinking while shooting at a few US soldiers.

A short docu about this kill team can be seen here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,754554,00.html

Just think of it, only because of one guy in that group felt not good about it this was finally investigated.

All of the others apparently were OK with it.

The witness mentions that these are not just incidents.

There is an Italian movie called Seven Beauties where an Italian prisoner of war is forced to have sex with the Nazi female prison warden. The Italian director Lina Wertmüller does great things with anger and sex.

<snip>

Put those two on your must see list, Seven Beauties and Swept Away.

Weird taste you have, writing in a topic where soldiers murdered innocent civilians for fun, advising other members to watch such sadistic movies too...

LaoPo

I realize you don't want to understand. I realize you don't have the tools to understand. I realize you see a thing that is so wrong you only want to lash out and condemn someone or some government. I realize you want us all to share your horror and revulsion and condemn the government and people who could allow these things to happen.

I know all of that. I have seen as bad if not worse. Actually probably a lot worse.

The problem is you have become clichéd. 20 or so of your last 24 topics posted were about things American. What is your fascination with America?

You are not an American and don't live there. Nor do you seek to understand things. You only want to tell people things.

Do you think I can't read the newspaper?

Seven Beauties is an award winning movie by an award winning female director that has a lot to do with the subject matter. Go rent it. War is like an angry whore and you have probably never seen either up close and personal, sorry the analogy didn't work for you.

Chuck was made aware of this in the other topic about if a person is a terrorist when he is a Muslim or had a case of Muslin thinking while shooting at a few US soldiers.

A short docu about this kill team can be seen here: http://www.spiegel.d...,754554,00.html

Just think of it, only because of one guy in that group felt not good about it this was finally investigated.

All of the others apparently were OK with it.

The witness mentions that these are not just incidents.

I only noticed that topic yesterday and found that the "Kill Team" subject was discussed there since a week or so (correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't follow that topic or took part in it at all).

By opening THIS topic I was surprised to find that this case wasn't discussed or opened with a topic in World News at all.

Strange.

LaoPo

That is the nature of war.

Interesting story Mark, but as for why some people commit despicable acts, I think the quoted text about sums it up.

Suppose they created a boogieman and no one raised their hand. Or.....imagine that they had a war and no one came.

I only noticed that topic yesterday and found that the "Kill Team" subject was discussed there since a week or so (correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't follow that topic or took part in it at all).

By opening THIS topic I was surprised to find that this case wasn't discussed or opened with a topic in World News at all.

Strange.

LaoPo

I think topics in World News are opened automatically and not by any TV member. So the Kill Team story wasn't in the news feed where the threads are topics are taken.

And in Ivory Coast there are now 800 dead civilians from an internal squabble between two guys who want to be President.

Another war, more dead civilians - not collateral damage, but murdered by the participants, as in My Lai.

In Libya the NATO forces shoout up a road-block between Adj'dabiya and Benghazi killing a doctor and three medics - that could be collateral damage. But the NATO attacks on Tripoli, where there is no fighting, is again the murder of civilians.

These are all deliberate acts - maybe in different circumstances and with differing aims, but they are resulting in murder, plain and simple. How can you prosecute GI-Joe / Tommy Atkins for murder, when you do not prosecute the generals who plan the attacks, or the politicians who demand that the generals plan and the army carries out the atrtacks?

Most of the junior officers and REMFs who address the combat soldiers do categorise the local population in very demeaning ways - always have, always will. They don't go out and fight, merely pep-up the cannon fodder who will 'do or die'.

And in Ivory Coast there are now 800 dead civilians from an internal squabble between two guys who want to be President.

Another war, more dead civilians - not collateral damage, but murdered by the participants, as in My Lai.

In Libya the NATO forces shoout up a road-block between Adj'dabiya and Benghazi killing a doctor and three medics - that could be collateral damage. But the NATO attacks on Tripoli, where there is no fighting, is again the murder of civilians.

These are all deliberate acts - maybe in different circumstances and with differing aims, but they are resulting in murder, plain and simple. How can you prosecute GI-Joe / Tommy Atkins for murder, when you do not prosecute the generals who plan the attacks, or the politicians who demand that the generals plan and the army carries out the atrtacks?

Most of the junior officers and REMFs who address the combat soldiers do categorise the local population in very demeaning ways - always have, always will. They don't go out and fight, merely pep-up the cannon fodder who will 'do or die'.

Generals seem to have a Teflon shield of moral invincibility but as far as I am concerned Robert E Lee should have been shot for Pickett's charge, The Aussies should have strung up Churchill for Gallipoli. And my own personal favorite, General William Westmoreland should have been banished for Operation Moose which cost the Americans the Vietnam war.

From:

RollingStone:

"The Kill Team Photos

More war crime images the Pentagon doesn't want you to see"

During the first five months of last year, a platoon of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan went on a shooting spree, killing at least four unarmed civilians and mutilating several of the corpses. The “kill team” – members of the 5th Stryker Brigade stationed near Kandahar – took scores of photos chronicling their kills and their time in Afghanistan. Even before the war crimes became public, the Pentagon went to extraordinary measures to suppress the photos, launching a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib.

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration. “Most people within the unit disliked the Afghan people,” one of the soldiers told Army investigators. “Everyone would say they’re savages.”

Many of the photos depict explicit images of violent deaths that have yet to be identified by the Pentagon. Among the soldiers, the collection was treated like a war memento. It was passed from man to man on thumb drives and hard drives, the gruesome images of corpses and war atrocities filed alongside clips of TV shows, UFC fights and films such as Iron Man 2. One soldier kept a complete set, which he made available to anyone who asked.

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

LaoPo

From:

RollingStone:

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

Those are some of the most graphic pics I have seen from this war

As for those involved in such crimes....If found guilty hanging would be too good for them.

From:

RollingStone:

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

Those are some of the most graphic pics I have seen from this war

As for those involved in such crimes....If found guilty hanging would be too good for them.

The stand-out irony revealed in the article....the soldiers said that they considered Afghanis as savages.

From:

RollingStone:

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

Those are some of the most graphic pics I have seen from this war

As for those involved in such crimes....If found guilty hanging would be too good for them.

Obviously you have just seen the tip of the iceberg although our three alleged supporters of terror will try to make this look or claim this was a rare incident.

In my opinion, many of the soldiers have no clue as to why they are there and just treat it like a first person shooter game.

And obviously the standards of recruiting are all about numbers.

But I can understand that when more than 40 Million US peeps are on food stamps and with no or little jobs available, the easiest way to earn some dosh is to join the army.

Once you done your tours you might be able to join the mercenaries private security contractors.

It's better than flipping burgers.....

Obviously you have just seen the tip of the iceberg although our three alleged supporters of terror will try to make this look or claim this was a rare incident.

Actually the "supporters of terror" will try to blow it up into something that it is not and will ignore the fact that the perpetrators were arrested and are well on their way to being convicted.

From:

RollingStone:

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

Those are some of the most graphic pics I have seen from this war

As for those involved in such crimes....If found guilty hanging would be too good for them.

Obviously you have just seen the tip of the iceberg although our three alleged supporters of terror will try to make this look or claim this was a rare incident.

In my opinion, many of the soldiers have no clue as to why they are there and just treat it like a first person shooter game.

And obviously the standards of recruiting are all about numbers.

But I can understand that when more than 40 Million US peeps are on food stamps and with no or little jobs available, the easiest way to earn some dosh is to join the army.

Once you done your tours you might be able to join the mercenaries private security contractors.

It's better than flipping burgers.....

A perfect example of why I think the draft should be mandatory for all men at 18 years of age.

Alex if you served in a combat zone for a couple of years you would know just how foolish and insulting your statement is.

Makes me want to chase you around with a machine gun for a couple of hours. Not shoot you of course just come close and throw a couple of grenades for effect.

You talking about the military is like me talking about the joys of lesbian love and feminism.

PS you can get a job as a truck driver in Iraq for $100,000 with no military experience.

Obviously you have just seen the tip of the iceberg although our three alleged supporters of terror will try to make this look or claim this was a rare incident.

Actually the "supporters of terror" will try to blow it up into something that it is not and will ignore the fact that the perpetrators were arrested and are well on their way to being convicted.

Supporters of terrorism?

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.