I checked out the link and it viewed it with the a jaundiced eye. It's pretty hard to defend the actions of the soldiers. Pretty much indefensible.

Military adventures don't generally bring the best out of people. Like a stone under running water, some get polished and others just get worn down.

Police and military should fall into honorable professions, however, quite frequently the people joining them do not.

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.

the usual typical yada-yada claim without any substantiation.

without any substantiation.

Try reading any reputable newspaper!

From:

RollingStone:

WARNING!

http://www.rollingst...photos-20110327

Those are some of the most graphic pics I have seen from this war

As for those involved in such crimes....If found guilty hanging would be too good for them.

Obviously you have just seen the tip of the iceberg although our three alleged supporters of terror will try to make this look or claim this was a rare incident.

In my opinion, many of the soldiers have no clue as to why they are there and just treat it like a first person shooter game.

And obviously the standards of recruiting are all about numbers.

But I can understand that when more than 40 Million US peeps are on food stamps and with no or little jobs available, the easiest way to earn some dosh is to join the army.

Once you done your tours you might be able to join the mercenaries private security contractors.

It's better than flipping burgers.....

Alex:

I agree with Mark. It is apparent you know little about the real world.

You disappoint me with this post. I thought you were smarter than this.

Obviously I was wrong.

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.

the usual typical yada-yada claim without any substantiation.

Herr Naam:

You didn't disappoint me at all. This sort of post is precisely what I expected.

Not quite as lengthy as your usual, 'Yada, yada, yada. Blah, blah, blah.'

Though it still carries the same editorial impact

Sadly, it isn't rare. Apparently Australian soldiers have a tough time keeping from murdering Afghan civilians themselves.

http://www.theaustra...f-1226029282382

And in a separate story...

At least no one has to worry about German soldiers in Afghanistan killing anyone - unless one of their beer trucks runs over someone;

German soldiers deemed 'too fat to fight'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/15/germany-afghanistan-beer

If the German defence ministry's figures are anything to go by, being a soldier in Afghanistan is clearly thirsty work.

According to military sources, around 1m litres (1.8m pints) of beer were shipped to German troops stationed in Afghanistan last year, as well as almost 70,000 litres of wine and sekt, a German sparkling wine.

The admission has shocked a country that has never had much time for the Afghan mission. Newspaper reports under headlines such as Drink for the Fatherland and Bundeswehr Boozers have suggested that alcohol is the only way of keeping soldiers onside at a time when it is becoming ever harder to recruit them.

and this...

Troops' beer allowance a headache for Germans

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5277034.ece

First they were accused of not wanting to fight. Then they were blamed for failing in their main mission to train the Afghan police.

Now Germany’s battered military reputation has received a further humiliating blow. According to official reports the 3,500 troops in northern Afghanistan drink too much and are too fat to fight.

The physical condition of the soldiers was already in question after a German armed forces report found that 40 per cent of its soldiers aged 18-29 were overweight, compared to 35 per cent of the civilian population of the same age.

At least no one has to worry about German soldiers in Afghanistan killing anyone - unless one of their beer trucks runs over someone;

This one is a 10 on anybody's scale of 'funny'.

Thanks Kohee for injecting a bit of humor in this fred and more seriously, posting the clip of the Aussie atrocity.

And Mark, you surely understand what it is about, hence your remark about a truck driver getting a 100.000 USD a month.

Just try to explain that to a US soldier that has been brainwashed into thinking that he is there to either hunt BL or spread democracy whatever that means and have his legs blown off, for what I ask you.

I feel sorry for any soldier not only US, that go there and feel they are doing the right thing. Maybe we should ask Madeline Allbright to elaborate on why she thinks killing 500.000 people and more, is worth it.

Please ask yourself what is the "It"

To be or not be in a "Combat zone" is a choice current soldiers and mercenaries make. The question therefore would be: Why did they make that choice.

And Chuck, what exactly is the real world in your opinion?

I apologize for the following: and just treat it like a first person shooter game.

Please ignore that, and read again and tell me if there is anything else that made you feel disappointed.

And yes, I have been in some "combat zones" and seen plenty of dead bodies, I just asked myself, Why?

Do you not realize that it could just as easily be you who who is "brainwashed"? There are two sides to this story.

Do you not realize that it could just as easily be you who who is "brainwashed"? There are two sides to this story.

Please enlighten us here UG.

Why are these soldiers there?

Let's assume I am a 19 year old kid. What are you going to tell me to convince me I need to join the army and shoot at people.

Young males are risk-takers by nature. It takes no brain washing to get them in high-risk situations. Quite the opposite, it takes a fair amount of effort to keep them from risk. They are infallible and really don't believe they can die. I am relatively certain that most suicide bombers fall into the same paradigm.

If you combine excitement, risk and any type of social acceptance of the behavior, you have the formula.

Now, if you were to try and get the over 35 males to join, you will need some real incentives.

Let's assume I am a 19 year old kid. What are you going to tell me to convince me I need to join the army and shoot at people.

Nothing. They usually convince themselves.

Do you not realize that it could just as easily be you who who is "brainwashed"? There are two sides to this story.

Please enlighten us here UG.

Why are these soldiers there?

Let's assume I am a 19 year old kid. What are you going to tell me to convince me I need to join the army and shoot at people.

Actually Vietnam was a lot less dangerous than my wife Beverly. In Vietnam if some one came at me with a knife I shot them. I couldn't do that with Beverly and she was a very fast runner. Anyone who asked at the time knew why I went. "Why did Mark go to Vietnam?" "You know his wife Bev?" "Oh, yeah right, I would have gone too."

I don't know why people join the Army. I would not have joined. Given an alternative of a Federal Jail or the Army it begins to make some sense.

I always felt betrayed when they gave amnesty to the draft dodgers and deserters.

I knew the war was wrong when I went. I didn't try to kill anyone either. If someone shot at me I shot back but never went out of my way to hurt anyone.

My daughter joined the Air Force. I tried to talk her out of it. She joined because she was angry with my wife, her mother. So that makes two people in my family who have gone to war because of my wife. Maybe that is a common motivation.

Is Beverly employed by the Department of Defense? She sure has done her share to support the US military.

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.

I suppose that keen observers as yourself would have the insightful ability those suspected terrorists instantly, yes? Rogue nations....that would include the most rogue: The U.S. and U.K.

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.

I suppose that keen observers as yourself would have the insightful ability those suspected terrorists instantly, yes?

Translate into English please.

Apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Talban, North Korea and other terrorists and rogue nations.

I suppose that keen observers as yourself would have the insightful ability those suspected terrorists instantly, yes?

Translate into English please.

I apologize. Remembering that English is a second language for you.

If it was my second language, I would be asking you to translate it into my first language, but it is almost undecipherable as it is.

Let's assume I am a 19 year old kid. What are you going to tell me to convince me I need to join the army and shoot at people.

Nothing. They usually convince themselves.

Oh reawlly?

http://www.businesspundit.com/unemployed-people-join-united-states-military-en-masse

Let's assume I am a 19 year old kid. What are you going to tell me to convince me I need to join the army and shoot at people.

Nothing. They usually convince themselves.

Oh reawlly?

http://www.businessp...litary-en-masse

Average Pay

• When the Congressional Budget Office looked at military pay in 2007, it studied five reports on military pay. These were the 9th Quadrennial Review of Military Compensation (2002), CBO (2004), Center for Naval Analyses (2004), Government Accountability Office (2005) and Department of Defense (Unpublished, 2005). All of the average pay reports were adjusted to reflect 2005 dollars. Also, each study looked at pay for both enlisted men and officers. The averages ranged from $90,200 in the 9th Quadrennial Review of Military Compensation to $138,000 in the unpublished Department of Defense Report. The latter report looked at all of the benefits, cash and non-cash, that servicemen received. This is why it is so much higher than the other reports and why only 39 percent of the amount was in cash while 70 percent of the 9th Quadrennial Review of Military Compensation report was in cash.

Enlisted Compensation

• Since enlisted men and officers have significantly different pay, the CBO looked at the average enlisted men's pay using a 2006 report that broke pay down by pay grade and family status. Cash pay ranged from $29,700 for an E-1 to $85,900 for a E-9, but when non-cash benefits were added the pay ranged from $54,900 to $150,700. Having a family added to the non-cash benefits up to 24 percent to a soldier's compensation.

Read more: The Average Salary of a U.S. Soldier | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz1J6LlVKy1

And of course don't forget the GI Bill.

Yesterday on CNN when the Federal government was threatened with shutdown...They mentioned the delay that would occur with military pay.

They also talked to a few military housewives

Anyway they said the average pay for a Army Private was $1700 a month

Yesterday on CNN when the Federal government was threatened with shutdown...They mentioned the delay that would occur with military pay.

They also talked to a few military housewives

Anyway they said the average pay for a Army Private was $1700 a month

Play around with the Military Compensation Calculator. Here's what a buck private with a wife and two years service , stationed at Fort Lewis makes:

http://militarypay.d...calc/index.html

To clarify, "BAS and "BAH" mean Basic Allowance For Subsistence and Basic Allowance for Housing.

Play around with the Military Compensation Calculator. Here's what a buck private with a wife and two years service , stationed at Fort Lewis makes:

Thanks LB that was cool to play with

Surprisingly you do not get much more if you have a wife.

Play around with the Military Compensation Calculator. Here's what a buck private with a wife and two years service , stationed at Fort Lewis makes:

Thanks LB that was cool to play with

Surprisingly you do not get much more if you have a wife.

Just imagine what GDP would be if we weren't on a perpetual war footing.

Just imagine what GDP would be if we weren't on a perpetual war footing.

Well since GDP includes government spending

Does make one wonder

And of course don't forget the GI Bill.

One of the lecturers in Philosophy at Oxford got his start in academic life through the GI Bill.

I don't think a lower or higher pay for the military would ever be an excuse to kill people for fun.

I wonder why the discussion about salaries for the military came into this topic; it certainly wasn't a point in the OP and/or a reason nor an excuse for those soldiers to grab innocent civilians and murder them....for FUN.

LaoPo

I made $91.00 per month when I went in...and that included my wifes allotment.

I sent her $75.00 and she remained home teaching school.

Things were cheaper then.

______________________________________________________

Oops, sorry I blundered off course and altered the topic from bashing the US.

And of course don't forget the GI Bill.

One of the lecturers in Philosophy at Oxford got his start in academic life through the GI Bill.

I am a big fan of the GI Bill and I see it as a just reward an opportunity to improve one's circumstances given their service to their nation. That said, if one studie how much f'ing money is flying out the door in the Defense Dept., in hardware, in service contracts, in salaries and future salary and retirement obligations it's not hard to see that it is draining the American budget and that many people, given lack of other opportunuties are being virtually forced into service. Checked the cost of a college education lately? $100k, easily.

So I'm answering your question and Lao Po's about how we got sidetracked. In war virtually anyone can become what these murderers became. With the increase in people not necessarily fit to serve but just looking for a place to earn a living and maybe build a future the threshold to "snapping" becomes less IMO. That's exascerbated by having no idea <deleted> they are there in the first place. In the absence of these kinds of fundamental supporting mechanisms, all you get is people you can teach to hate and kill and never know why. Just de-personalize everyone that isn't like you. Probably a lot more of this stuff has gone on that we will never hear about.