http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/464727-egypt-to-open-gaza-crossing-permanently/

Now that Egypt is opening the border with Gaza - what will happen now? Will the Palestinans' living conditions improve? Will there be new schools and hospitals built from all the aid being allowed to pour in? Will Hamas get more weapons and ignite a large scale war?

Personally, I think all those who have been paying lip service about helping the poor Palestinians will be missing in action and life for them won't change. I think Hamas will get more weapons and ramp up their attacks on Israel. Then Israel will take Gaza back and close the border. Israel will be blamed for everything even though it was the Palestinians (vis Hamas) who dropped the ball.

So what do you guys think will happen?

Perfect holiday spot. Think I'll take the kids.

Perfect holiday spot. Think I'll take the kids.

don't miss the live-show in the gogo-bar "72 virgins and their kalashnikovs"! starts every evening at 20.00 sharp right after happy hour "buy one tea, get one free!"

I think your suspicions are probably right that Hamas will be re-supplied to make attacks on Israel, and that Israel will retaliate with their normal over bearing over-zealousness.

If only Israel would not evict Arabs from their homes in East Jerusalem, if only Israel would not confiscate Palestinian land to build Jewish-only communities, if only Israel would lift their illegal and immoral siege of Gaza, if only Israel would stop occupying Palestinian lands, ...and so on....perhaps Hamas would not have a gripe to fire ineffectual rockets into Israel.

If only there were such a thing as "Palestinians" and the Arabs had never declared war on Israel numerous times and refused peace deals numerous times and did not attack innocent civilians...

I think your suspicions are probably right that Hamas will be re-supplied to make attacks on Israel, and that Israel will retaliate with their normal over bearing over-zealousness.

I know we disagree on this but I don't think there is any such thing as being "over bearing over-zealousness" when someone launches rockets at your people. If the rockets aren't effective, then that make those launching them even bigger morons.

I would like to meet anyone who thinks that Israel is wrong for attacking with greater force than has been used against them. This person can bring their child (or any young family member). I will then take my finger and flick the little bugger hard on the nose a few times. I would expect the parent to do nothing more than flick me on the nose back else risk being criticised for using excessive force. From normal people I would expect them to kick the holy crap out of me for flicking the kid's nose. And that's what is happening between the Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians are flicking noses and the Israelis are kicking the holy crap out of them.

I really hope someone here attempts to answer these questions but we all know they will avoid them like the plague.

The Palestinians are flicking noses and the Israelis are kicking the holy crap out of them.

I think your suspicions are probably right that Hamas will be re-supplied to make attacks on Israel, and that Israel will retaliate with their normal over bearing over-zealousness.

I know we disagree on this but I don't think there is any such thing as being "over bearing over-zealousness" when someone launches rockets at your people. If the rockets aren't effective, then that make those launching them even bigger morons.

I would like to meet anyone who thinks that Israel is wrong for attacking with greater force than has been used against them. This person can bring their child (or any young family member). I will then take my finger and flick the little bugger hard on the nose a few times. I would expect the parent to do nothing more than flick me on the nose back else risk being criticised for using excessive force. From normal people I would expect them to kick the holy crap out of me for flicking the kid's nose. And that's what is happening between the Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians are flicking noses and the Israelis are kicking the holy crap out of them.

I would punch you in the nose, not kick the crap out of you.......and anyone who kicks the crap out of you for it is waaaay over-reacting and I would step in and save YOU from the crazy bully.

Intereesting that your analogy did not mention why you felt the need to flick my child's nose.....if you had done it because I had told a bunch of my kids that they can build a tree-house in YOUR tree and that my kid had thumbed his nose at you when you asked him to leave....then that sort of makes me the one you should have spoken to, and when I refused to tell my kids to leave, perhaps you should not flick my nose but smash it rather badly......and since I am much bigger than you.....what do you do? Especially when I tell my kids to build another tree-house in another of your trees.....and furthermore I evict YOUR kids out of their tree-house so that MORE of my kids can have a tree-house........

Don't you think that it is time to call in the police....and don't you think your anger is well justified and that even though you flicked my kid's nose, it is ME that is the actrual aggressor and instigator and that your little flick was only an understated reaction to an outrageous set of acts by me?

Really....a major point here in why we disagree....in your analogy of flicking my kids nose:

Really, I would punch you in the nose NOT kick the crap out of you.

Really, if I witnessed someone kicking the crap out of you in reaction to you flicking his kid's nose, I would step in and stop the crazy idiot.

This shows our difference more than anything. You think kicking the crap out of someone is OK for a minor incident. I think it is crazy and unneccessarily violent.

Furthermore...still using your analogy, after you flicked the kid's nose and after the crazy raging idiot kicked the holy crap out of you and you called the cops.....I would expect a decent, uncorrupt policeman to step in, arrest the bully, tell him to get his kids of your property, and to warn you in no uncertain terms that you can't go flicking children's noses....and see to it that you don't.

Really....a major point here in why we disagree....in your analogy of flicking my kids nose:

Really, I would punch you in the nose NOT kick the crap out of you.

Really, if I witnessed someone kicking the crap out of you in reaction to you flicking his kid's nose, I would step in and stop the crazy idiot.

This shows our difference more than anything. You think kicking the crap out of someone is OK for a minor incident. I think it is crazy and unneccessarily violent.

A minor incident? An adult comes by and flicks your kid's nose hard and you would do almost nothing. The protective instinct runs deep in you.

Really....a major point here in why we disagree....in your analogy of flicking my kids nose:

Really, I would punch you in the nose NOT kick the crap out of you.

Really, if I witnessed someone kicking the crap out of you in reaction to you flicking his kid's nose, I would step in and stop the crazy idiot.

This shows our difference more than anything. You think kicking the crap out of someone is OK for a minor incident. I think it is crazy and unneccessarily violent.

A minor incident? An adult comes by and flicks your kid's nose hard and you would do almost nothing. The protective instinct runs deep in you.

Once again you show your inconsistancy and very wierd view of reality..... you call a punch on the nose "almost nothing" but a flick on the nose is worthy of "kicking the holy crap" for?

That's upside down.

I really hope someone here attempts to answer these questions but we all know they will avoid them like the plague.

No one will answer it because it is silly to ask. Do a cross check and ask the same or similar things about Israel.

I notice that you did not attempt to answer even more question that would prove that an Arab Palestine ever existed.

There has never been an Arab country called "Palestine" so your map is nonsense. Jordan is the closest thing to it, but they don't want their Muslim "brothers" there either.

I notice that you did not attempt to answer even more question that would prove that an Arab Palestine ever existed.

There has never been an Arab country called "Palestine" so your map is nonsense. Jordan is the closest thing to it, but they don't want their Muslim "brothers" there either.

That is a hollow semantic argument.

How many of the Israelis that evict Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem and settle on their lands can claim an Israeli ancestry of more than two or three generations?

In 1914 Jewish population of the entire Israel/Palestine area was 60 000, and the Arab population was 731 000, that is Jews were 7.585% of the population. By 2006 the Jews numbered slightly more than 50% but have squashed the Arabs into the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem (and are pushing them out of EJ).

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636

I notice that you did not attempt to answer even more question that would prove that an Arab Palestine ever existed.

There has never been an Arab country called "Palestine" so your map is nonsense. Jordan is the closest thing to it, but they don't want their Muslim "brothers" there either.

of course Harcourt's map is nonsense because it it superseded by the milleniae old commandment of the LORD "Here ye oh Israel. I am giving you this land. Just kill the Philistines, Moabites, Canaanites and whatever low level creatures exist and take possession."

Really....a major point here in why we disagree....in your analogy of flicking my kids nose:

Really, I would punch you in the nose NOT kick the crap out of you.

Really, if I witnessed someone kicking the crap out of you in reaction to you flicking his kid's nose, I would step in and stop the crazy idiot.

This shows our difference more than anything. You think kicking the crap out of someone is OK for a minor incident. I think it is crazy and unneccessarily violent.

A minor incident? An adult comes by and flicks your kid's nose hard and you would do almost nothing. The protective instinct runs deep in you.

Once again you show your inconsistancy and very wierd view of reality..... you call a punch on the nose "almost nothing" but a flick on the nose is worthy of "kicking the holy crap" for?

That's upside down.

You either misunderstood, are trolling, or, well, you know. I'll try one last time. A man has his young child with him. I go up to the young child and keep flicking him hard on the nose a few times (which would of course result in the child crying). The man's response to some adult making making his child cry in this way would be to punch him in the nose. If instead he started to kick the holy crap out of me, you would interfere on my behalf. Thank you. That explains why you think Israel shouldn't retaliate to Hamas launching rockets at them - they don't do enough harm. Or because you are ____________. [that blank is meant for each reader to insert their own take, be it "noble", "insane" or something else all together].

Anyway, back to the topic I started. For those of you who have yet to answer, WHAT do you think will be the result of Egypt opening the Gaza crossing?

http://israelipalest...sourceID=000636

Sorry, but using inaccurate sources like this will just get you laughed at. It is very well known that there are no legit population statistics, but the British did allow Arabs immigrants to flood the area around this time while trying to keep out Jews. However, it is also well known that Jerusalem was mostly Jews up to the turn of the century.

By the way, it seems that you lot can not answer ANY of these question without admitting that there has never been an Arab country called Palestine.

"..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

of course Harcourt's map is nonsense...

It seems that they did teach you something at Mel Gibson University!

Having lived in the Middle East for over 30 years, it has always mystified me why the Arab street is so frightened of Israel.

Let's look at some comparisons:

1. Land Size

Arab Countries - 6,981,274 Km2 (Not including Gaza and West Bank which totals 6,220 Km2)

Israel - 20,770 Km2

2. Population

Arab Countries - 342,947,576 (Not including another 3,876.289 from Gaza and West Bank)

Israel - 7,465,000

3. Gross Domestic Product

Arab Countries - $3.87 Trillion (Not counting $770 Million from Gaza, nothing from West Bank)

Israel - $200.6 Billion

The State of Texas has 254 Counties, of which Brewster County is the largest at 16,100 Km2, 80% the size of Israel. It is probably filled with Southern Baptists but the Methodists and Episcopalians from Dallas are not storming the gates.

So, again, why is everybody so concerned about this miniscule piece of land and tiny population in the Middle East when they have no oil or valuable mineral resources and clearly don't try to force their religion on others. What makes people seem to think they pose such a threat to their neighbors?

Anybody?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

Chuckd, thanks for the probing question and putting things into perspective.

Chuckd, thanks for the probing question and putting things into perspective.

I guess you're being sarcastic there...

It's got nothing to do with the size of the place or with forcing religion upon anyone, it has everything to do with occupying lands and evicting people from their ancestral homes. ...not to mention the draconian double standards and the apartheid regime that the Israelis impose upon the Arabs residents within the Israel border.

http://israelipalest...sourceID=000636

Sorry, but using inaccurate sources like this will just get you laughed at. It is very well known that there are no legit population statistics, but the British did allow Arabs immigrants to flood the area around this time while trying to keep out Jews. However, it is also well known that Jerusalem was mostly Jews up to the turn of the century.

By the way, it seems that you lot can not answer ANY of these question without admitting that there has never been an Arab country called Palestine.

"..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

I have cited a source, you have rubbished it....with your opinion. Bring forth some credible source that backs up your assertion that there were no legit population stats in 1914.

You are also persisting with your silly semantic angle over the word "country".

Give it a rest. Read up on The British Mandate for how things were in 1922....and read up on history even further back. The land was known as Palestine, and was inhabited by Arabs centuries ago.

Then answer my question about how many Israelis, the very same Israelis that settle upon confiscated Palestinian land and confiscated Palestinian homes in EJ, can claim Israeli ancestry for more than 2 or 3 generations?

Really....a major point here in why we disagree....in your analogy of flicking my kids nose:

Really, I would punch you in the nose NOT kick the crap out of you.

Really, if I witnessed someone kicking the crap out of you in reaction to you flicking his kid's nose, I would step in and stop the crazy idiot.

This shows our difference more than anything. You think kicking the crap out of someone is OK for a minor incident. I think it is crazy and unneccessarily violent.

A minor incident? An adult comes by and flicks your kid's nose hard and you would do almost nothing. The protective instinct runs deep in you.

Once again you show your inconsistancy and very wierd view of reality..... you call a punch on the nose "almost nothing" but a flick on the nose is worthy of "kicking the holy crap" for?

That's upside down.

You either misunderstood, are trolling, or, well, you know. I'll try one last time. A man has his young child with him. I go up to the young child and keep flicking him hard on the nose a few times (which would of course result in the child crying). The man's response to some adult making making his child cry in this way would be to punch him in the nose. If instead he started to kick the holy crap out of me, you would interfere on my behalf. Thank you. That explains why you think Israel shouldn't retaliate to Hamas launching rockets at them - they don't do enough harm. Or because you are ____________. [that blank is meant for each reader to insert their own take, be it "noble", "insane" or something else all together].

Anyway, back to the topic I started. For those of you who have yet to answer, WHAT do you think will be the result of Egypt opening the Gaza crossing?

What did I misunderstand....you said, in response to me stating I would punch the flickers nose, "An adult comes by and flicks your kid's nose hard and you would do almost nothing. The protective instinct runs deep in you."

From that I understood that punching the flicker in the nose is "almost nothing" in your estimation.

We can surely agree that a flick is less than a punch.

You also suggested that a proper reaction to the flicker would be to kick the holy crap out of the flicker.

So, the flicker commits less than almost nothing, and deserves to have the holy crap kicked out of him.....in your books.

In my books it is crazy over-reaction to kick the holy crap out of somebody for less than almost nothing.

And yes, I would intervene if I saw some crazed idiot kicking the crap out of you if you had merely flicked his kids nose....if you had punched the kid....well, maybe I'd leave him do a bit of damage before I stepped in....but only to restrain him, not to punish him.

Yes...back to the OP...I have already said that I think supply lines to Hamas will be re-energised, and I think Israel will over-react just to that.

I also think much-needed humanitarian supplies will reach the Gazans.

Also, the travel restrictions on students and patients needing specialist medical care may be eased.

Another thought......Egypt obviously knows this will cause angst in the Knesset....are they only doing this for some political/financial backsheesh?

Chuckd, thanks for the probing question and putting things into perspective.

I guess you're being sarcastic there...

It's got nothing to do with the size of the place or with forcing religion upon anyone, it has everything to do with occupying lands and evicting people from their ancestral homes. ...not to mention the draconian double standards and the apartheid regime that the Israelis impose upon the Arabs residents within the Israel border.

Scott, don't worry about being called sarcastic. This is simply another one of Harcourt's means to slam me. I'm nearly 10% certain he didn't mean any affront to you.

http://israelipalest...sourceID=000636

Sorry, but using inaccurate sources like this will just get you laughed at. It is very well known that there are no legit population statistics, but the British did allow Arabs immigrants to flood the area around this time while trying to keep out Jews. However, it is also well known that Jerusalem was mostly Jews up to the turn of the century.

By the way, it seems that you lot can not answer ANY of these question without admitting that there has never been an Arab country called Palestine.

"..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

I have cited a source, you have rubbished it....

The Population of Palestine Prior to 1948

Introduction

The population figures for mandatory and Turkish Palestine are of historical interest and figure in many historical debates. The Zionist claim that Palestine was "a land without a people" is challenged by pro-Palestinian historians who cite census figures showing a substantial Palestinian-Arab population by 1914. The Zionists note that most of this increase seems to have occurred after 1880, when Jews began developing Palestine. In particular, Joan Peters ("From Time Immemorial") claimed that a large proportion of the population increase among Arabs was due to immigration. Pro-Palestinian historians try to make a case that Zionist settlement had begun displacing Palestinians before 1948.

The goal of the present is to examine the claims in the light of the best available statistical data, without supporting the contentions of either side, and without any intention either to denigrate from the tragedy of Palestinian refugees or to use the data to question Jewish claims to Palestine. The moral claims of the sides should not depend on percentages of population. In practice, I am aware that the data on this page have been used to support various partisan claims. That is precisely the sort of abuse that this material is intended to fight. The major conclusion is "The nature of the data do not permit precise conclusions about the Arab population of Palestine in Ottoman and British times" Anyone who pretends otherwise is deliberately misleading you. We can reach some general conclusions - Palestine was not empty when Zionists started arriving, there was some Arab immigration as well etc. But we cannot give a precise number in any case, and even if we could, it would not constitute evidence to back any moral claims.

Uncertainties in the data - Debates about the population of Palestine flourish because of the lack of good information and confusion over the meaning of census figures, and the will of partisans to distort history. Census figures of the Ottoman Empire were unreliable. Foreign residents were not counted, and illegal residents did their best to evade the census, as did people wishing to evade military services and taxes.

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm