The 3.6% that occur outdoors, to my mind, would probably be a spur of the moment thing, and there is every chance that the rapist and victim do not actually know each other and in those instances, wearing provocative clothing is a factor, and a very large one.

And you know that as fact do you?

Do you have anything to back this up Thad? Anything at all?

No, that's why I said earlier in that comment that it was just my opinion, am I not allowed to have one?

"Common sense" showing its face here - apologies in advance. But what if dress code ultimately reduced that 3.6% of reported rapes down to an even lower figure? Again, nobody has yet provided any conclusive arguments against attire being a factor in the assailants choice of victim when it comes to random attacks which happen on the streets.

OK then

Why not give us a 'conclusive argument' that a boob tube and mini skirt would encourage a rape.

Am sure I answered this before while asking a similar question....? -

One of the purposes of dressing "sexy" is arouse sexual feelings in others. It may not be the only purpose, but it's a very significant one. Yet (in the interests of "rights") we're supposed to ignore this blatant fact when it comes to the what attracts the attention of sexual predators...? Please show me one conclusive statistic or bit of logic that absolutely contradicts this clearly blatant fact.

Then you lead in to this little wonder...

And then, I'll ask for a conclusive argument that due to preference, a mini skirt and boob tube does not in fact discourage a rape.

So are you saying there's a percentage of sexual predators out there who will ignore their sexual instincts and basically try and shag anything that walks? Well I guess there are....?

And what percentage of this elusive 3.6% are these warped "anything goes" folks? God knows, but we're still relying on statistics that in all likelihood do not paint an accurate picture of the actual realities.

Insight

You are still making assumptions on the motive a rapist and what a rapist would be attracted to. I for one would be more attracted by a long figure hugging dress and I know that I am far from alone.

Some guys have a thing about uniforms. Given a choice between a boob tube clad woman and a nurse, the nurse may well end up being the victim. Or somebody dressed as an authority figure such as a teacher might also find themselves a victim ahead of the boob tube girl. That's just a couple of examples of which there are countless.

Your assumptions are not making a conclusive argument at all. You are just guessing with nothing to back it up.

Think about this........

A lot of work has gone into working out the psychology of a rapist and what provokes a rape..... A LOT of work.

I have scoured the internet for even a morsel of information that suggests a scantily dressed woman is more prone to rape but have found absolutely nothing. Don't you think that suggests something insight? Of all the research that has been done no evidence has surfaced to suggest skimpy clothes are the motive.

Of all the work done, if it is was found that skimpy dress is a factor, do you not think that information would have been released to help reduce the figures?

So are you saying there's a percentage of sexual predators out there who will ignore their sexual instincts and basically try and shag anything that walks?

NO

I am saying that there are men out there with sexual preferences other than a boob tube and mini skirt or whatever.

A lot of work has gone into working out the psychology of a rapist and what provokes a rape..... A LOT of work.

Um... well link to it then.

A lot of work has gone into working out the psychology of a rapist and what provokes a rape..... A LOT of work.

Um... well link to it then.

Do you really need a link to know that a lot of work has gone into understanding the psychology of a rapist?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+psychology+of+a+rapist

A lot of work has gone into working out the psychology of a rapist and what provokes a rape..... A LOT of work.

Um... well link to it then.

Do you really need a link to know that a lot of work has gone into understanding the psychology of a rapist?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+psychology+of+a+rapist

Hang on - you expect people to Google for articles in defence of an argument *you* are trying to make?

Up your game, will ya...?

Insight

If I really have to make an argument to convince you that a lot of research has gone into what motivates a rape, then I really am quite speechless. The link was actually sarcasm because it is such common knowledge that I am genuinely amazed that somebody would need to ask for evidence.

And the link that I did provide was an entire page full of items from different on the psychology of a rapist and still you are not accepting.

You just carry on as you are. I doubt a single other person on this thread needs to see evidence.

Christ, Rakers. I thought you were capable of a decent debate. Anyway you motivated me to search out a reference (based on your sarcy link), and it took less than 5 minutes:

Victims

Responses to dress' date=' complexion and desire had an impact on one rapist’s choice to

rape. Question 23: Were there aspects of how the victim dressed that ruled her out as a

possibility? Reply:

[i']Well you can’t stop that. Once they dress…sometimes dressing have a lot to really ketch

the imagination. You can’t stop that.[/i]

Exposure of the body seems to be an enticement for some rapists, whilst others felt

short pants contributed to the rape. Rapists’ comments:

She had on a short pants and a short top. She like sexy thing; a nice thing; a best thing.

I does only go around best thing. You know wha ah mean nah. They mightn’t be best in

attitude and thing. You know what I talking about (Offender #7).

She had a little short pants and no underwear, and that

what cause it (Offender #3).

Yes. For instance a J’Ouvert morning wear.[Laughing] Short fitting pants, piece a top,

exposed, yuh seeing flesh (Offender #15).

(Debate aside, disturbing comments )

Alexis (n.d.) Rapists’ accounts of their motivations, levels of

premeditation and target choices: Some Trinidadian and Tobagonian data [Online] Available at http://sta.uwi.edu/nlc/2008/documents/papers/Simon%20Alexis.doc (Accessed 30th, May, 2011)

A clearerappreciation of rapists’ behaviours would be examined within the context of thetypes of rapists and their association with general offending to ascertain howthey target their victims. Who or what should be blamed for rapes: substanceabuse, the victim, or the rapist? Based on clinical experiences and impressionsdeveloped by Groth and Birnbaum (1979) one of three categories of rapists isthe power rapists. They are seen asexerting dominance, mastery, violence, authority and control over their victimsdisplaying only the necessary violence or force to satisfy their uncontrollablesexual fantasies for sexual potency. Polaschek and Gannon(2004:300) indicated that when rapists talk about their offending, they oftenreveal fascinating aspects of their world view.

From the very same article Insight.

And this, in reference to your comments.

The three aboveparticipants have supported Whatley’s (2005) finding that the way women dresscan affect rapists’ desires. Victim is deserving of some blame…victim dressedin a seductive manner deserved more responsibility for the incident than thevictim dressed in a sober manner (Whatley 2005:197).Thus, women’s physique seems to play an important part in choices rapists makewhen they rape.

Three participants from 25. What about the other 22?

Of course some men are attracted to skimpy clothes, that much in undeniable. But many men would be attracted to a woman in a uniform more so than skimpy clothes.

Insight

First you try to tell me that you don't believe a lot of research has gone into rape

Now you try to claim some victory by showing something that indicates 3 out of 25 men raped because the women were scantily clad.

Now, I know you are going to say "but yeah, that's 12 %". But that would be misleading and simply not the point. What about the other 22 men? How many of those found a different style of dress as the catalyst for a rape?

More reading, Rakers:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2qsKNaqIsuUC&lpg=PA232&dq=rapist%20victim%20selection&pg=PA232#v=onepage&q&f=false

Won't copy and paste large chunks (coz I can't), but key sentence (p232) "This means there is a strong correlation between attractiveness and likelihood of becoming a rape victim". Read the whole of argument 12.

/edit - in fact, read the whole chapter.

First you try to tell me that you don't believe a lot of research has gone into rape

I did..!?!? Where?

More reading, Rakers:

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Won't copy and paste large chunks (coz I can't), but key sentence (p232) "This means there is a strong correlation between attractiveness and likelihood of becoming a rape victim". Read the whole of argument 12.

Good god man.

All you keep in doing is re-affirming my point. Again you are assuming that all men would find skimpy clothes more attractive and provocative than other ways of dressing. Again, many men would prefer a woman who is dressed in a way other than boob tube and mini skirt, and that article doesn't even mention anything about how the woman is dressed anyway.

First you try to tell me that you don't believe a lot of research has gone into rape

I did..!?!? Where?

Hang on - you expect people to Google for articles in defence of an argument *you* are trying to make?

Up your game, will ya...?

You were asking for a link as evidence and when I gave a link it still wasn't enough.

I don't know if I want to take this any further. It's becoming silly.

It mentions attractiveness.

Anyway, your turn. I've offered one source which clearly states the womans attire was a significant factor in her becoming a victim. You've gone from saying it has nothing to do with it to now it having "something" to do with it.

Where do you stand? This time remember to bring some evidence to aid your conclusions.

Some tips for getting started - http://tinyurl.com/39veot3

Bloody hell lads. I've kept out of this one because it's so dam_n depressing.

I have been a cop since 1978 ( military/civil). I have been to the scene of more rapes than I would care to remember and every one is different. Young military men in packs, individual sadisits with mental problems, drunken husbands etc etc yarda yarda yarda

Empirical data chaps, everyone different, no victim ever "asked" for it. Please don't bring the venom of OTB to the asylum. It's the only place where I don't have to act as a big boy and the pals here have a sense of fun and live and let live ( mooners hasn't slotted Ian for God's sake )

Sat on an arm chair the other week which had a sixty something English tourist murdered and stuffed in it. Did I feel silly and horrified at the same time, when I found the body 24 hours later. Dear old Bedders always an outlet for lunatics to vent and kick of the <deleted> of the real world...................Don't make it like the rest of the board, there's a good bunch.

attractiveness is the key word here, not specifically slutty clothes.

so a slim, attractive young women in jeans & a t shirt might be more at risk to rape than a fat, older ugly women lets say, wearing a boob tube & hot pants . so what has the clothes got to do with anything?

Insight.

Clear your mind and listen to my words.

I have never said attractiveness is not an issue. I have never once said that, in fact on many occasions have clearly said that attractiveness is often an issue. I have also said that on many occasions that attractiveness is not an issue, but that does not mean to say I said it was never an issue.

You keep on going on about attractiveness and making the assumption that the mini skirt and boob tube would be something that the rapist will find attractive. You keep in making that assumption repeatedly without considering that many men would find different clothing more attractive and more provocative than skimpy clothing.

I'll try to put it as simply as I can......

Two women walking down a dark alleyway. One is wearing a mini skirt and boob tube, the other is wearing a long, figure hugging dress.......

Who is more likely to be raped?

Insight.

Clear your mind and listen to my words.

I have never said attractiveness is not an issue. I have never once said that, in fact on many occasions have clearly said that attractiveness is often an issue. I have also said that on many occasions that attractiveness is not an issue, but that does not mean to say I said it was never an issue.

You keep on going on about attractiveness and making the assumption that the mini skirt and boob tube would be something that the rapist will find attractive. You keep in making that assumption repeatedly with considering that many men would find different clothing more attractive and more provocative than skimpy clothing.

I'll try to put it as simply as I can......

Two women walking down a dark alleyway. One is wearing a mini skirt and boob tube, the other is wearing a long, figure hugging dress.......

Who is more likely to be raped?

The unlucky one...................end of.

attractiveness is the key word here, not specifically slutty clothes.

so a slim, attractive young women in jeans & a t shirt might be more at risk to rape than a fat, older ugly women lets say, wearing a boob tube & hot pants . so what has the clothes got to do with anything?

I you Boo.......

Two women walking down a dark alleyway. One is wearing a mini skirt and boob tube, the other is wearing a long, figure hugging dress.......

Who is more likely to be raped?

According to research, the more attractive one.

And what does the average male specifically perceive to be attractive?

Is this progress?

Can't seem to find anything to answer that yet. But here's some opinions to get started with

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts13161157.aspx

Is this progress?

Can't seem to find anything to answer that yet. But here's some opinions to get started with

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts13161157.aspx

Your pointing me to a forum where people can be publicly identified and judged.

You want to know what the average male finds attractive? Pick up a mens magazine - FHM, Loaded, et al. These profit-making enterprises don't take too many chances when it comes to the taste of the average guy.

Yet more assumptions Insight. Since when has FHM represented the average man?

Anyway.

There must be a survey out there somewhere. I'll find one, but gotta work now.

Yet more assumptions Insight. Since when has FHM represented the average man?

Anyway.

There must be a survey out there somewhere. I'll find one, but gotta work now.

Wouldn't that be the best business model to go for to obtain a widespread readership...?

Anyway, this has clearly run its course. My opinion remains unchanged - it's agreed and academically proven that attractiveness along with vulnerability is a key factor in the choice of victim. My argument is that sexually provocative clothing enhances the attractiveness of a person substantially enough to be considered a factor, and have provided testimonies from perpetrators which confirm this. Although encouraging research, in defense of the far more popular argument that clothing makes no difference Rakers has provided a generic Wikipedia article about rape and a link to a public forum. The only compelling argument I've seen in defense of the popular argument is Suiging, who would rather not get involved - so will respect his wishes.

That's me out. Any further comment from me will happen over beers

I think you're the only one who hasn't got the point Insight.

I'm not saying that clothing doesn't make a difference, quite the opposite! I don't know in how many different ways I can express that. Best we leave it there because this is going absolutely nowhere.

Can everybody else see my point? (regardless of whether or not they agree with me). Or have I done a bad job of explaining myself?

I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable with the direction that this topic is going.

The people who are responsible for victimization are the perpetrators, not the victims--at least in Western Culture. Who and how people select their victims is not really an appropriate discussion for this forum.

/edit yeah done

I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable with the direction that this topic is going.

The people who are responsible for victimization are the perpetrators, not the victims--at least in Western Culture. Who and how people select their victims is not really an appropriate discussion for this forum.

That's probably my fault.

On reading back one of my posts (229) it sounds quite insensitive, which wan't my intention. I'd edit it but I can't.