Exact Cause Of Chiang Mai Hotel Deaths May Be Impossible To Find: Health Official

[webfact]

Probe team narrows possibilities

By Kwandao Jitpana

The Nation

CHIANG MAI

Health official says finding exact cause of deaths may be impossible

The investigation into the Downtown Inn Hotel deaths hadn't determine the exact cause of death yet but now focused on three possible causes: infection, chemical or environment, and would get experts' help to determine the cause of deaths, it was announced at the press conference yesterday.

This move followed headlines about a New Zealand tourist Sarah Carter's mysterious death especially the New Zealand TV3's "60 Minutes" programme, which suggested the chemical spray chlorpyrifos that kills bed bugs was responsible for the death of Sarah Carter, as well as six others who were reported to have died in similar circumstances since January.

At the Chiang Mai Public Health Office yesterday, Chiang Mai Governor Panadda Diskul presided over the threehourlong closedoor conference with Chiang Mai health authority and consulate representatives of 10 countries including Todd Cleaver from the New Zealand Embassy in Bangkok.

In the press conference later, Chiang Mai Public Health chief Dr Wattana Kanchanakamon said they had a lot of meetings and get helps from experts including those from the World Health Organisation and Japan's Osaka City to determine the cause and what to do next.

He said they had Carter's stomach liquid sample that needed to be retested for credibility before reporting the result to those involved without any hiding or covering up attempts.

Wattana's deputy Dr Surasing Wisarutrat said that the probe had progressed half way now and the initial possible causes (infection, chemicals, crime, drug and environment) were narrowed to focus on infection, infection and environment - all of which needed further inspections. Surasing said the team would also be happy to accept any help in term of experts and also warned that public should not expect too much because a disease investigation might not definitely find the exact cause of the death sometimes. He said the team would also have a teleconference over the case with foreign experts at 6pm yesterday. He said the hotelroom where Carter stayed prior to her death was also closed and the hotel insisted they didn't use the chemical spray chlorpyrifos. He also added that chlorpyrifos would be fatal if one drank a glassful of it or 87cc hence death by inhaling it was unlikely. He said they would continue the probe with helps from experts and would keep those involved updated.

Panadda said that the Thai authorities didn't ignore the problem and all tried their best to restore the Thai people's integrity that they worked with sincerity and transparency. But to be appropriate, the Thai authorities had to contact the families of those who died or fell sick to make them at ease. Panadda said he therefore brought the probing team to explain to the international convoys about what they had done in the probe so far. He said that the convoys agreed that they had done a lot. He said that the team would need more time to get the answer.

Prior to the conference yesterday, Panadda commented that the international media's news reported had exaggerated facts especially the number of seven persons died after staying or using the facilities of Downtown Inn Hotel. He said that there were actually only four people; the elderly English couple whose deaths weren't questioned by relatives due to their ages, hence only a Thai female tour guide and the 23yearold New Zealand tourist Sarah Carter - the latter whose death on February 6 led to news headlines. He also said the hotel owner wasn't his relative as claimed.

-- The Nation 2011-05-13

[virtualtraveller]

I'm sure certain authorities, such as Health Department, are very concerned and have been working hard, however it seems to have been countered by the usual Asian Businessman attempt to silence things, but unfortunately farangs are involved and though you can persuade the local police to give you a clean bill of health, you can't persuade the world that it was all a co-incidental accident. Thus it's backfired and the negative publicity has amplified as New Zealand TV programs etc keep the story alive. There's been no more deaths since late March, the bug or whatever is probably now gone, it appears to be one of those perplexing cases where several plausible theories are inconclusive to account for the random nature of deaths, therefore the possibility of several factors converging.

All, the same it's a lesson (not) learnt, in how not to deal with the situation. Downtown Inn is (I believe) owned by the same guy as the Empress, who was formerly president of the Chiang Mai Hotelier Assoc. - and the reaction to this was very similar to that of the Chiang Mai haze syndrome, where they think first of minimising the impact to business by blocking the health advisories from local authorities, thereby placing the public at further risk.

Curiously there isn't a single comment about the deaths on TripAdvisor for this hotel. But I've seen evidence that tourism has been significantly affected for Chiang Mai as a result of all this.

[dunkin2012]

classified as weird/unexplainable

The governor should be sincere to get over the issue.

Well!......

Don't go to CM then If the exact cause of the deaths is not known. How can they reassure travelers they won't get killed while hopping around in CM? .

Danger List : One Might

A.encounter food poisoning from seaweed,

B.contact Chlorpyrifos from a bedbug spray ,

C.pick up legionnaires' disease from an air-con,

D.get electrocuted from an improper-installed shower or

E.swim in a toxic swimming poor.

For those who did not know much what was going on with the hotel, hope this can be a bit of help.

1.Waraporn,47- a Thai tour guide - here body was found in the bathroom in her room on the 5^th fl. - had serious diarrhea - Feb 3 '11

2. Sarah,23 - a Kiwi backpacker -died from heart inflammation -in a hospital + other 2 Kiwi girls were serious ill - Feb 4 '11

3. George Everitt, 78, and his wife Eileen, 73 - an Elderly Brit. couple - suffered fatal heart attacks within minutes of each other - Feb 19 '11

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(didn't stay at Downtown Inn)

4.Canadian Bill Mah, 59, a Canadian died after using the facilities of the Downtown Inn - Jan 26 '11

5. Mariam Soraya Vorster, 33, a Californian - a tour guide in Chiang Mai - became sick with symptoms of food poisoning.- Jan 11 '11

6. A French woman died - no info - Jan 9-Feb 4 '11

more info

Edited May 13, 2011 by dunkin2012

[toybits]

I agree that it may be "impossible" to find - especially if a LOT of MONEY is passed on to the right HANDS!

[webfact]

UPDATE

Britain to investigate mystery deaths in Chiang Mai

The British Foreign Office has announced that a coroner in the UK will conduct an investigation into the deaths in Chiang Mai of a British couple aged 78 and 74 who died at the same time of heart attacks in the city’s Downtown Inn.

Following, but perhaps coincidental to, a press conference given by the Chiang Mai Governor yesterday which was described as ‘unenlightening’ the FC O announced that the Coroner in Boston, Lincs, had accepted the task.

The two pensioners who came to Thailand every year are among a number of victims who died having stayed at the hotel or having used the hotel’s facilities.

The British authorities are hoping the Thai authorities will provide the result of their investigation, which is so far incomplete.

But they will take evidence from the couple’s son Stepen, 47, and local doctors who are expected to say the couple were remarkably fit for their age, Andrew Drummond reports.

Full report here:

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=399

[DNPBC0]

Well done, Panadda! Your implication that the unexplained coincidental deaths of the British couple didn't merit serious consideration because of their ages and the absence of concern by relatives has gone down like a lead balloon - and deservedly.

For those who are interested and haven't seen the New Zealand TV3 '60 Minutes' report, here is a link to the programme:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Sarah-Carters-likely-cause-of-death---insecticide/tabid/371/articleID/210265/Default.aspx

[dunkin2012]

Well done, Panadda! Your implication that the unexplained coincidental deaths of the British couple didn't merit serious consideration because of their ages and the absence of concern by relatives has gone down like a lead balloon - and deservedly.

For those who are interested and haven't seen the New Zealand TV3 '60 Minutes' report, here is a link to the programme:

http://www.3news.co....65/Default.aspx

have seen this ...

have anyone Had a video clip,hyper link shot durin' yesterday press conference?

‘not very enlightening’ one

Edited May 13, 2011 by dunkin2012

[JurgenG]

My travel agent doesn't cater for the general public so usually stay away from the big headlines, but has recently issued a travel warning for Chiang Mai.

http://www.internationalsos.com/private/capgemini_fr/cg/main.cfm?report_id=33794&language_id=ENG&page=21&country_ID=0

[DNPBC0]

It's easy to get paranoid in this part of the world, but I have just received a Google alert for an article appearing a short time ago in today's Bangkok Post, entitled 'FDA: Chlorpyrifos Dangerous in Bedrooms'. The article begins, "Thailand's Food and Drug Administration has warned the public to refrain from using pesticides containing chlorpyrifos in a bedroom as there is no substantial report on the product's safety. The warning on Friday followed reports in the New Zealand ...'

When I clicked on the link to read the full article, I received the message, "The web page or article you tried to reach is not currently available. Usually this happens because the page has been moved or it no longer exists." I have searched the BP online news site, and there is no record of the article.

[jimbeam1]

UPDATE

Britain to investigate mystery deaths in Chiang Mai

The British Foreign Office has announced that a coroner in the UK will conduct an investigation into the deaths in Chiang Mai of a British couple aged 78 and 74 who died at the same time of heart attacks in the city’s Downtown Inn.

Following, but perhaps coincidental to, a press conference given by the Chiang Mai Governor yesterday which was described as ‘unenlightening’ the FC O announced that the Coroner in Boston, Lincs, had accepted the task.

The two pensioners who came to Thailand every year are among a number of victims who died having stayed at the hotel or having used the hotel’s facilities.

The British authorities are hoping the Thai authorities will provide the result of their investigation, which is so far incomplete.

But they will take evidence from the couple’s son Stepen, 47, and local doctors who are expected to say the couple were remarkably fit for their age, Andrew Drummond reports.

Full report here:

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=399

Well done the UK? About 3 months late, but better late than never I suppose. I just hope that all the evidence hasn't been lost or disposed of.

jb1

[animatic]

Exact Cause Of Chiang Mai Hotel Deaths

May Be POLITICALLY Impossible To Find IN THAILAND:

Health Official, WHO FEARS FOR HIS JOB and/or LIFE.

Edited May 13, 2011 by animatic

[partington]

I agree the true cause may be impossible to find, but I'm afraid i also believe that the Thai investigation team want it to be impossible to find, so will see that this is the actual outcome.

For what it's worth I don't think information about how much of the suspect chemical you would have to eat to kill you is at all relevant. If this was a result of indiscriminate spraying for bedbugs the chemical would have been inhaled from the mattress by the beds' occupants, and this might have very different effects than eating it.

For example, without checking, I seem to remember at the time the victims were reported to have had unusually enlarged hearts-a very odd symptom-that was said to be the cause of death. Remember basic biology-where does blood from the lungs go first after absorbing oxygen (and inhaled chemicals)? - yes, to the heart, to be pumped around the rest of the body. So significant quantities of an inhaled chemical could be delivered to the heart initially , and concentrated there if it's absorbed by the heart muscle, through inhalation.

I also wouldn't believe for a second that the Thai team had tested for the presence of this particular chemical in the bodies of the victims at the time. You have to have at least some idea of what you are looking for, and I wonder how many possible toxins did they actually try to look for (in the samples that weren't "lost" that is)...

[ginjag]

Well done, Panadda! Your implication that the unexplained coincidental deaths of the British couple didn't merit serious consideration because of their ages and the absence of concern by relatives has gone down like a lead balloon - and deservedly.

For those who are interested and haven't seen the New Zealand TV3 '60 Minutes' report, here is a link to the programme:

http://www.3news.co....65/Default.aspx

have seen this ...

have anyone Had a video clip,hyper link shot durin' yesterday press conference?

‘not very enlightening’ one

Most of us could seem to smell a rat from day 1. But here in LOS nobody has, they eat them everyday in Issan

The British Foreign Office has announced that a coroner in the UK will conduct an investigation into the deaths in Chiang Mai of a British couple aged 78 and 74 who died at the same time of heart attacks in the city’s Downtown Inn.

George Everitt, 78, and his wife Eileen, 73 - an Elderly Brit. couple - suffered fatal heart attacks within minutes of each other - Feb 19 '11

the elderly English couple whose deaths weren't questioned by relatives due to their ages

coincidental ??

[The Snark]

Just an observation.

While myocaditis may have been the cause of some of these deaths, myocarditis in turn almost certainly has to caused by something. It is not normally a developed heart disease like congestive heart failure (artherosclerosis). Myocarditis is most commonly caused by infection from a virus, a bacterial infection, or through toxins.

Sudden death from myocarditis, commonly referred to as a 'heart attack', without an underlying invasive cause is extremely rare. What needs to be determined is the cause of the condition. Virus, bacteria, toxemia or trauma such as electric shock. Simply stating this was the cause of the majority of these deaths does not explain the likely underlying cause. Basic pathology would probably rule out a virus as the cause as the incubation period takes a given amount of time. Trauma could also be ruled out as there are normally obvious indicators. This leaves bacteria or toxins which is where the New Zealand and other investigations are looking.

Possibilities:

-An unidentified virus. Can be extremely difficult or even impossible to identify. There are many diseases that have viruses as their cause which have been known for years but have yet to be identified.

-A pathogen. Competent pathological investigation can often identify an infective bacteria. Extensive laboratory analysis would be required.

-A toxin. Unlikely as traces of the poison would normally be found in body tissue or in the urinary tract, providing an autopsy specifically searches for it.

[webfact]

MYSTERIOUS CHIANG MAI DEATHS

WHO supports probe

By The Nation

The World Health Organisation (WHO) is fully backing Thailand's investigation into the mysterious death of a young New Zealander in a Chiang Mai hotel, a senior health official said yesterday.

"Basically, WHO experts are of the opinion that Thai authorities are proceeding in accordance with principles and standard procedures," Dr Surasing Wisarutrat, deputy chief of Chiang Mai's public health office, said yesterday.

He added that WHO experts had also suggested that the investigation focus on three likely causes: infection, chemicals and environment.

"We were planning to do that anyway," he added.

Sarah Carter, 23, a tourist from New Zealand, died mysteriously in her room at the Downtown Inn Hotel in Chiang Mai in February.

Later, in an episode of the "60 Minutes" television programme broadcast in New Zealand, it was suggested that chlorpyrifos chemical spray, usually used to kill bedbugs, might have been responsible for the mysterious death of seven tourists at the hotel.

On Thursday, Chiang Mai Governor Panadda Diskul and officials from health agencies had invited foreign envoys to listen to clarifications and updates on the case.

Surasing said yesterday: "We have been handling the case transparently. We have recruited the help of several agencies. We will try to determine the cause of her [Carter's] death as soon as possible."

He said a news conference would be held as soon as there was substantial progress.

-- The Nation 2011-05-14

[The Snark]

MYSTERIOUS CHIANG MAI DEATHS

WHO supports probe

By The Nation

The World Health Organisation (WHO) is fully backing Thailand's investigation into the mysterious death of a young New Zealander in a Chiang Mai hotel, a senior health official said yesterday.

"Basically, WHO experts are of the opinion that Thai authorities are proceeding in accordance with principles and standard procedures," Dr Surasing Wisarutrat, deputy chief of Chiang Mai's public health office, said yesterday.

He added that WHO experts had also suggested that the investigation focus on three likely causes: infection, chemicals and environment.

"We were planning to do that anyway," he added.

Sarah Carter, 23, a tourist from New Zealand, died mysteriously in her room at the Downtown Inn Hotel in Chiang Mai in February.

Later, in an episode of the "60 Minutes" television programme broadcast in New Zealand, it was suggested that chlorpyrifos chemical spray, usually used to kill bedbugs, might have been responsible for the mysterious death of seven tourists at the hotel.

On Thursday, Chiang Mai Governor Panadda Diskul and officials from health agencies had invited foreign envoys to listen to clarifications and updates on the case.

Surasing said yesterday: "We have been handling the case transparently. We have recruited the help of several agencies. We will try to determine the cause of her [Carter's] death as soon as possible."

He said a news conference would be held as soon as there was substantial progress.

-- The Nation 2011-05-14

There is a LOT of double talk in that press release.

[DNPBC0]

The below contains the text (scroll down) of Thailand's FDA warning about the indoor use of chlorpyrifos before the article was apparently withdrawn by the Bangkok Post:

http://photo-journ.com/chiang-mai-tourist-death-hotel-mystery-remains-%E2%80%93-governor-slams-foreign-media-report

[EODghost]

Exact Cause Of Chiang Mai Hotel Deaths

May Be POLITICALLY Impossible To Find IN THAILAND:

Health Official, WHO FEARS FOR HIS JOB and/or LIFE.

That's more like it.

[sirchai]

The below contains the text (scroll down) of Thailand's FDA warning about the indoor use of chlorpyrifos before the article was apparently withdrawn by the Bangkok Post:

http://photo-journ.c...gn-media-report

Surasing said the team would also be happy to accept any help in term of experts and also warned that public should not expect too much because a disease investigation might not definitely find the exact cause of the death sometimes. He said the team would also have a teleconference over the case with foreign experts at 6pm yesterday. He said the hotelroom where Carter stayed prior to her death was also closed and the hotel insisted they didn't use the chemical spray chlorpyrifos. He also added that chlorpyrifos would be fatal if one drank a glassful of it or 87cc hence death by inhaling it was unlikely. He said they would continue the probe with helps from experts and would keep those involved updated.

So many lies and still the big WHY.:jap:

[asdecas]

"finding exact cause of deaths may be impossible"

Naturally! It's another TiT case.

[arrowsdawdle]

I'm sure certain authorities, such as Health Department, are very concerned and have been working hard, however it seems to have been countered by the usual Asian Businessman attempt to silence things, but unfortunately farangs are involved and though you can persuade the local police to give you a clean bill of health, you can't persuade the world that it was all a co-incidental accident. Thus it's backfired and the negative publicity has amplified as New Zealand TV programs etc keep the story alive. There's been no more deaths since late March, the bug or whatever is probably now gone, it appears to be one of those perplexing cases where several plausible theories are inconclusive to account for the random nature of deaths, therefore the possibility of several factors converging.

All, the same it's a lesson (not) learnt, in how not to deal with the situation. Downtown Inn is (I believe) owned by the same guy as the Empress, who was formerly president of the Chiang Mai Hotelier Assoc. - and the reaction to this was very similar to that of the Chiang Mai haze syndrome, where they think first of minimising the impact to business by blocking the health advisories from local authorities, thereby placing the public at further risk.

Curiously there isn't a single comment about the deaths on TripAdvisor for this hotel. But I've seen evidence that tourism has been significantly affected for Chiang Mai as a result of all this.

Random nature of deaths? Random?

[asdecas]

Here again is the text of the web page posted and quickly withdrawn by the Bangkok Post yesterday:

http://photo-journ.com/chiang-mai-tourist-death-hotel-mystery-remains-%E2%80%93-governor-slams-foreign-media-report

The BP long ago lost its gonads, seems like it's losing it's head now too.

[anterian]

Whwn camping in the jungle away from civilisation one has to rely on your own skills and awareness to stay alive. Because Thailand superficially looks civilised visitors can be fooled into not realising it is a jungle.

[OZEMADE]

"finding exact cause of deaths may be impossible"

Naturally! It's another TiT case.

It would not be impossible if the hotel was shut down (as it should be) pending the outcome of the investigation by Japan, the US and WHO.

[asdecas]

"finding exact cause of deaths may be impossible"

Naturally! It's another TiT case.

It would not be impossible if the hotel was shut down (as it should be) pending the outcome of the investigation by Japan, the US and WHO.

I couldn't agree more, but that was exactly my point - they never do what they should, and they never will, because This is Thailand and there are other influences at play that override getting at the facts.

[rreddin]

Here again is the text of the web page posted and quickly withdrawn by the Bangkok Post yesterday:

http://photo-journ.com/chiang-mai-tourist-death-hotel-mystery-remains-%E2%80%93-governor-slams-foreign-media-report

The BP long ago lost its gonads, seems like it's losing it's head now too.

Thanks for the link. One has to wonder what was the motivation for removing the web page.

[asdecas]

Here again is the text of the web page posted and quickly withdrawn by the Bangkok Post yesterday:

http://photo-journ.c...gn-media-report

The BP long ago lost its gonads, seems like it's losing it's head now too.

Thanks for the link. One has to wonder what was the motivation for removing the web page.

I'll take a wild guess - political pressure?

[arrowsdawdle]

The OP is not a news story, it is a press release. And rather than trust somebody that speaks English to write it, it appears that an on-line translator was used in an attempt to hammer Thairoglyphics into English; yet another example of condescension toward the international community. It's like the arrogant Thai man and wife business owners, that in their best moments never ever wrote a coherent sentence in English, forcing a man of letters and published author--who ghost-wrote the businessman's Master's thesis--to change advertising copy to awkward clunky mis-truths.

[james24]

What is interesting is how they dismiss the two older peoples death... If im correct they both died at the same time in the same together, and this due to just old age....???

[YoghurtLX]

"finding exact cause of deaths may be impossible"

Cause of deaths can be connected, time frame and the number of deaths is inconclusive.

Guess they need to find a murder who uses unconventional weapons.