btw - in reference to your own baiting, there must be millions and millions of "superficial" people who suffer from "celebrity worship" otherwise singers like Madonna, Lady Gaga, Maria Carey, Beyonce, Jenniger Lopez, etc,etc wouldn't be the world-wide superstarts that they are.

Superficial? They're all pre-teens who follow those you have quoted.

Of course they're superficial.

Asides from Madonna, I doubt most of those would be remembered in a couple of generations.

Funny you should mention that. Back in the early-mid 80's there were two very popular new female singers. I remember commenting that neither of them would be remembered in a generation like the Beatles were. One was Cindy Lauper and the other Madonna - so I was half right.

Some people are very over-sensitive when it comes to truths that they don't like to admit to or are buried in their sub-conscience.

You always accuse me of trolling whenever my opinion doesn't pull punches or hits a raw nerve that is real but you'd prefer to remain unspoken, or I offer facts that paint your ideals in a darker shade.

You couldn't deny my opinion" that America seems to have a culture of celebrity worship"....(and indeed it does seem so, and I consider celebrity worship to be a superficial trait)....instead, you desperately look for simmilar "fault" in me or mine, or look for other cases that have the same "fault" as if to say that it's not only you or yours (In saying which, btw, is a concession to whatever I have said).

You have often called me a troll. It is always the same....when you have no refutation, you resort to false ad hominem tactics,

Do you think that if you say it enough, others will start believing it?

Have a read of your OP. No, you're not bashing Brits, but you are saying America is great.

Maybe it is.....but when I point out a truth that may be behind this "greatness", you (and your compatriots) start attacking and baiting. Talk about superficial!

You're nearly succeeding at hijacking this thread. That's what trolls do. Your contribution to the discussion was to bash the home country of the thread starter in a blatant baiting attempt. More trollish beaviour. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Assuming there is maybe a 1% chance that you really do believe your own stated opinion, I'll try to explain further. My post IS NOT about America being great. If you want to look at it in terms of "geatness" then you could say it is about the US & UK both being great in the field of popular music. However, while both have more than their fair share of highly successful groups and male solo acts, the UK has very few female solo acts and I was wondering why that is. Even Canada which is about half the size has Celine Dion, Shania Twain, Alanis Morissette, Avril Lavigne, Joni Mitchel, and Anne Murray.

Please stay on topic. The topic has been pointed out to you, if you still don't understand then go back and re-read the OP. I occasionally have to do that as well.

There is no question that the UK has got serious musical talent so please, no one take offense at this, it isn't meant to bash the Brit music scene.

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about this,

The Beatles and Rolling Stones were the greatest rock groups of all time and they were English, so why do the Brits not have more really celebrated female solo acts - other than Stevie Nicks - is an excellent question that I can not answer.

There is no question that the UK has got serious musical talent so please, no one take offense at this, it isn't meant to bash the Brit music scene.

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about this,

The Beatles and Rolling Stones were the greatest rock groups of all time and they were English, so why do the Brits not have more really celebrated female solo acts - other than Stevie Nicks - is an excellent question that I can not answer.

can someone pleeeeeeeeeeeease correct me if i am wrong. but as far as i know and if we are indeed talking about the same Stevie Nicks here who was 1/5 part member of Fleetwood mac, she is in actual fact an American !

She is American TG

I know. I was joking.

This thread started out as interesting. It was soon corrupted by the usual suspects who seem unable to post anything that doesn't contain an implicit criticism of those countries that they dislike. Here's a clue boys. Before you hit the SEND button re-read your post. If more than 80% of it is a criticism of the poster that you're replying to rather than the post itself it might just be time to consider that age old Indian proverb and just <deleted>.

This thread started out as interesting. It was soon corrupted by the usual suspects who seem unable to post anything that doesn't contain an implicit criticism of those countries that they dislike. Here's a clue boys. Before you hit the SEND button re-read your post. If more than 80% of it is a criticism of the poster that you're replying to rather than the post itself it might just be time to consider that age old Indian proverb and just <deleted>.

Thank you, Endure.

One off-topic post has been deleted as well as a reply to it.

When I think of Divas, I don't think first of very talented singers, I think of childish temper tantrums thrown by people whose fame has gone to their heads.

It seems that we have some Divas on this forum.

Again, please stay on-topic.

Can we please stay on topic?

Can we please stay on topic?

well said....greaser.

(I have a suspicion that "greaser" may have different meanings in America and the Antipodes.....I meant it in the Antipodean way....which is quite light-hearted.

Posts discussing moderation and replies to them have been deleted or edited.

Madonna, Lady Gaga, Maria Carey, Beyonce, Jenniger Lopez,

they aren't divas, they are manufactured pop singers. No real writing talent or musical ability. Carey has (or used to have) a true gift of a voice but the others, they rely on tabloid, shock or freak factor & sexy images to pull in the masses. Bankable yes, genuine talent, no.

And I don't think that Brits fall for the manufactured line as much as the people over the pond, celibrity rules in the US it seems sometimes, we are less impressed by in the UK. When you also compare country sizes it makes sense why there are less commercially successful UK female artists.

That's not to say that there aren't brilliantly talented females artists from the US, but these named above, are not.

Adele is an example of an up & coming female artist from the UK, she writes her own songs, performs them in her own style & doesn't need to be sexy shocking or manufactured to be successful. And Kate Bush is great example of an long term, successful & original British talent. Her recent album made serious waves & she shuns the limelight, relying on her talent to sell her music.

di·va/ˈdēvə/Noun

1. A famous female opera singer.

2. A female singer who has enjoyed great popular success.

And I don't think that Brits fall for the manufactured line as much as the people over the pond, celibrity rules in the US it seems sometimes, we are less impressed by in the UK.

Ever hear of the Spice Girls? Or any of the many boy bands? Heck, even the Beatles were "manufactured" by Brian Epstien. The people in the UK are just as impressed with celebrity as anywhere else. They invented tabloids full of celebrity pics and gossip - then brought them to the USA.

When you also compare country sizes it makes sense why there are less commercially successful UK female artists.

The per capita angle loses its validity when you think of all the great groups to come out of the UK. The UK has produced probably 50% of the great bands on the planet over the past 45-50 years so using their population size as a reason not to have more than a hand full of divas doesn't hold water.

Maybe Brit girls aren't encouraged to sing as much as boys? Maybe it's sort of like women's soccer/football. Does the UK even have a women's team?*. The men obviously know how to play and England is home of the world's top league (for men) but the women are missing in action for the most part.

* why, yes, they do: http://en.wikipedia....l_football_team

I think we should stick to the topic of divas. Football is a whole different subject.

A great deal of the famous female artists are African-American. I don't know if that plays into the situation or not.

It probably did before the closing of the Apollo Theatre and the degeneration into rap and hip-hop.

Heck, even the Beatles were "manufactured" by Brian Epstien.

I disagree with this statement.

The Beatles began with a couple of lads getting together in college to form a band.

They played in clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg and even recorded a single - "My Bonnie" before Epstein saw them perform in The Cavern and became their manager.

Obviously they thrived under his direction.

Joss Stone has a lovely voice.

I think we should stick to the topic of divas. Football is a whole different subject.

A great deal of the famous female artists are African-American. I don't know if that plays into the situation or not.

A lot of great African-American singers (both male and female) started their careers singing Gospel - something we don't have in the UK.

Heck, even the Beatles were "manufactured" by Brian Epstien.

I disagree with this statement.

The Beatles began with a couple of lads getting together in college to form a band.

They played in clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg and even recorded a single - "My Bonnie" before Epstein saw them perform in The Cavern and became their manager.

Obviously they thrived under his direction.

There is a view that because of the long hard hours they had to endure in Hamburg it rounded the rough edges, in fact it was there hard work more than any other thing that contributed to their success.

Manufactured by Epstein, I doubt it.

I am Beatles fanatic and really doubt if they would have ever become very well known Internationally without Epstein. Sometimes capitalism works!

Talent and creativity were the hallmark of the Beatles. Marketing helped, but without talent they wouldn't be legendary.

IMHO the Beatles were the best rock group of all time and talented indeed, but if Epstein had not made them such big stars, would they have ever had the chance to channel that talent and creativity into becoming legendary?

There is no way to know for sure, but thank God they did.

Heck, even the Beatles were "manufactured" by Brian Epstien.

I disagree with this statement.

The Beatles began with a couple of lads getting together in college to form a band.

They played in clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg and even recorded a single - "My Bonnie" before Epstein saw them perform in The Cavern and became their manager.

Obviously they thrived under his direction.

There is a view that because of the long hard hours they had to endure in Hamburg it rounded the rough edges, in fact it was there hard work more than any other thing that contributed to their success.

Manufactured by Epstein, I doubt it.

when I think of the Beatels and what they did great in terms of showing talent it was not until the sgt. pepper band album and that was well after Epstein came into the picture. imo it was the success they got from having Epstein in their camp that gave them the opportunity to explore and expand their talents, who knows but i am pretty sure the liver pool sound was not their best work although it was popular.

Heck, even the Beatles were "manufactured" by Brian Epstien.

I disagree with this statement.

The Beatles began with a couple of lads getting together in college to form a band.

They played in clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg and even recorded a single - "My Bonnie" before Epstein saw them perform in The Cavern and became their manager.

Obviously they thrived under his direction.

There is a view that because of the long hard hours they had to endure in Hamburg it rounded the rough edges, in fact it was there hard work more than any other thing that contributed to their success.

Manufactured by Epstein, I doubt it.

I love the Beatles, even downloaded their total discography (I bought plenty of albums in the past so they've gotten my money already). So I'm speaking as one of their fans.

I don't mean to say that Epstein totally created The Beatles (hence the quote marks in my original post). However, the Beatles' image was manufactured by Epstein. Would the world have fallen in love with the greasy, duck-tailed, black leather jacket look they had before? It hadn't been working too well before Epstein came along.

To me "manufactured" would apply to groups like Spice Girls, Monkees, Milli Vanilli (!!) or Bardot (bet none of you have heard of them ).

A band who got together in a traditional way, established themselves as a going concern and survived together, albiet unpolished, were NOT manufactured, even if they were subsequently guided by a manager to bigger and better things.

To the contrary, I think they are much closer to being a traditional garage, ground roots type band.

I would say that the Beatles image that first made them Stars was "manufactured", but the music was not.

you want a real diva and British ?

dame Shirley Bassey wooing the crowds at the Glastonbury festival. knocks the pants off of any of them !

you want a real diva and British ?

dame Shirley Bassey wooing the crowds at the Glastonbury festival. knocks the pants off of any of them !

She was always the first one to come to my mind. Probably because of Goldfinger.