April International - 30% Premium increase

[SICHONSTEVE]

Thank you Maloyd1! Nice to see that not everyone is hung over this Sunday morning.

I think a man who has to resort to buying it is surely a desparate man. Why spend thousands on airfares and accomadation simply just to have 5 minutes with a woman. I guess a desparate person in desparate times will do just about anything

Well now, this is a key point in the debate really.

In many cases there is indeed desperation, loneliness and/or unhappiness (with life in the West) as a huge factor as to why people come to Thailand for the women (I won't use the word "sex" as it oversimplifies the situation).

However as a result of this "desperation" it usually winds up being a sight more than just a 5 minute association, often with large sums of money involved.

First of all the money for the direct liaisons, then the monthly stipend sent from abroad, then after the marriage, the houses, the financial "assistance to the family and so on.

The fact it that the financial implications of sex "tourism" in Thailand run so much deeper than just rolling into a bar and having a one hour roll around with a lass and it would be interesting to see how the "knock on" economy would be affected.

On another note, I wonder how seriously we can take the moral highgrounder's arguments in this debate though.

If their outrage and disgust aimed at "sex-tourists" and "sexpats" (and any other preposterous terms they can invent) can really be taken seriously then surely they must also have considerable experience of the sex tourism scene themselves which in turn would make them.....

"However as a result of this "desperation" it usually winds up being a sight more than just a 5 minute association, often with large sums of money involved.

First of all the money for the direct liaisons, then the monthly stipend sent from abroad, then after the marriage, the houses, the financial "assistance to the family and so on".

I think that your take on proceedings might just be a tad exaggerated when you say this is what USUALLY happens. If this was what usually happens then there would be hundreds of thousands of marriages between Thai's and farangs every year, each with the farang's donating their life savings to "the women of their dreams"!!!!

[connda]

Sex tourism can be banished when Thai police are first educated on what Prostitution really means! A newspaper article once carried an article that the police invaded a pub for prostitution... I guess it was very hard finding one in Pattaya. it is mind boggling as to how they differentiated or filtered their search. Hmmmm Very hard ching ching!!!! <div><br></div>

Obviously a pub who forgot to pay their bribe money.

But there needs to be a crackdown foreigners seeking underage women, and women being forced into prostitution.

All prostitutes are beeing "forced" into it, one way or another, even tho they put on a fake smile pretend to be happy.

Forced by beeing extremely poor, or forced by their parents and grandparents because they want money.

Do you seriously think that these girls goes happily into prostutution because they want to?

"Do you seriously think that these girls goes happily into prostutution because they want to?"

I hate to piss on your parade, but quite a few do, and for a number of different reasons. I like to have a few beers each evening and have a number of working girls as friends - they all know my long term g/f and also know that I don't play around. I help them with English and we discuss any number of subjects.

Jai Dee works bars because she doesn't want to be anybody's servant, and to be economically independent. Now in her mid-40s she owns land and businesses in her home province which she would place at risk by marrying a Thai man, and she has refused several offers from farangs.

I knew Noi's mother in Oz where she ran a Thai restaurant until deported. I visited them in BKK, met Noi, her husband and 2 kids - husband an electronics engineer, seemed a good guy. Mum and Noi came down to Samui to visit, Mum goes home and Noi is working in a bar &lt;deleted&gt;? Last heard she is living in Germany with new husband.

Many of the girls in any one bar come from the same village. One comes down to try it, sends the word home, next thing you know every girl in the village wants to give it a go. Phone, bike, gold, make-up, flash clothes, money in their pocket, dancing all night - beats the crap out of planting rice in Duckville, just outside Nakhon Nowhere. Maybe tonight's boyfriend isn't the Thai stud of her dreams, but he's a lot less likely to give her a punch in the mouth and empty her wallet.

Some turn into seasonal workers, showing up every year like xmas beetles. They usually borrow to do it (I have lent a few thou to friends, and been paid back, in cash), but go home after 3-4 months with a new set of clobber and enough to live on for the rest of the year. Not many have husbands, same reason as Jai Dee.

This culture has a completely different attitude to sex, and to women's position in society. Don't make assumptions based on your own values.

Excellent post! You understand!

What I don't understand are the expats living in 2 million baht houses in gated communities (or serviced condos in the cities) who marginally speak Thai (if at all), don't read Thai at all, maybe have made one of two trips to Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, or Nana Plaza (and probably are guilt ridden) and are somehow experts on all of these "prostitutes" and "whores" in Thailand. About the time I hear the words "prostitutes" or "whores" coming out of the mouth of an expat (as though all these women are morally bankrupt and come from the underbelly of Thai society), I know I'm talking to someone who is culturally and morally biased. And they don't understand how pervasive and open this is in Thai society. I'll give an example. In any city in Thailand you can get a massage for anywhere between 100 baht to 400 baht an hour depending on how fancy the place is. Average price...maybe 175 baht per hour. In Korat (if you read Thai) there are many samlaws (three wheeled bicycle taxis for those who don't know) which have advertising placards displayed on the rear of the carriage. The advertisement is for a local Thai "Massage" shop that is advertising a 998 baht special. What sort of massage do you think you get for 998 baht? And they aren't catering to Farangs! If you read Thai, you see it everywhere. If you have Thai friends (especially from rural Thailand) you'll see it first hand.

"Prostitutes?" "Whores?" What sort of moral high-ground do expats like this think they are on??? These folks need to wake up or go back to whatever country they came from (or keep hiding in their gated communities living in ignorant self-righteousness).

[Just1Voice]

Gotta disagree with those who think these girls don't go into it willingly. Granted, not all, as some are forced, but I also know more than a few Uni students who "freelance" on the weekends for extra spending cash for new phones, etc, and to supplement what they get from their parents. I personally know one who is studying to become a lawyer. 21 years old and drop dead gorgeous. She has an arrangement with 2 separate men, both farang. One she meets for an hour or so on Saturday, the other for an hour or so on Sunday. 8,000 a month from each of them, and she sees absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. Oh, and no, I'm not one of them. I know her because I help her with her English, which is actually very good, and getting better.

Personally, if this is what they want to do, who am I to judge them? On the other hand, there are those who are sold by their parents, or forced into it through economic hardship, and that I do have a problem with.

[SICHONSTEVE]

this news story is much ado about nothing.

the comments were made at an india event... obvviously the speaker was putting a positive family spin for the indian tourism market. most tourists from india are families. you will rarely see an indian in a beer bar, karaoke joint, or massage parlor.

however, i saw a number of groups of indian men negotiating with Walking Street freelancers last weekend.... very amusing.and pathetic because of their attempts to get group sex at discount prices...

C'mon!!! everyone loves a bargain, don't they!!!!!! My wife buys things at a discount BECAUSE they are being sold at a discount - if we actually need it or can use it in some way then that's a bonus!!!

[robanywhere]

Paying for women simply gives me the option of saying goodbye without tears.

Wasn't it Charlie Sheen who said "I don't pay women for sex, I pay them to leave"

yeah, and rodney dangerfield had a great line, "The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less."

if you've ever been married or had a gf, then you will probably agree...

[OzMick]

this news story is much ado about nothing.

the comments were made at an india event... obvviously the speaker was putting a positive family spin for the indian tourism market. most tourists from india are families. you will rarely see an indian in a beer bar, karaoke joint, or massage parlor.

however, i saw a number of groups of indian men negotiating with Walking Street freelancers last weekend.... very amusing.and pathetic because of their attempts to get group sex at discount prices...

By group sex, you mean more than one man with a single woman, of course. While Thai girls don't seem at all put off with 3 in a bed, 2 of them have to be female (khatoi at a stretch).

I once made the mistake of asking the g/f if her friend, seen leaving the bar with 2 men, was going to sleep with both of them. She was highly offended that I would suggest such a thing.

Apparently consecutively would be OK (with a reasonable time gap) , but concurrently is a big no-no. I wonder if they get away with it in India, and is it only for economic reasons?

[kerryk]

But there needs to be a crackdown foreigners seeking underage women, and women being forced into prostitution.

All prostitutes are beeing "forced" into it, one way or another, even tho they put on a fake smile pretend to be happy.

Forced by beeing extremely poor, or forced by their parents and grandparents because they want money.

Do you seriously think that these girls goes happily into prostutution because they want to?

You obviously don't speak Thai. The girls don't send any money home. That is a Farang con. They spend the cash on Thai boyfriends, ya ba and designer phones and purses. They are hookers because they are lazy like making as much as a doctor and actually working only a couple of hours a day.

While this may be true of the girls you know, it certainly doesn't apply to all. All the girls (that I know) who have children send some money home every month, even if they have to borrow it. You also seem to hang out in the seedier establishments - any girl caught using yaba, or even grass, would get the boot from any of the bars that I visit regularly. And they would know, there's no secrets with this many women around.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Gotta disagree with those who think these girls don't go into it willingly. Granted, not all, as some are forced, but I also know more than a few Uni students who "freelance" on the weekends for extra spending cash for new phones, etc, and to supplement what they get from their parents. I personally know one who is studying to become a lawyer. 21 years old and drop dead gorgeous. She has an arrangement with 2 separate men, both farang. One she meets for an hour or so on Saturday, the other for an hour or so on Sunday. 8,000 a month from each of them, and she sees absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. Oh, and no, I'm not one of them. I know her because I help her with her English, which is actually very good, and getting better.

Personally, if this is what they want to do, who am I to judge them? On the other hand, there are those who are sold by their parents, or forced into it through economic hardship, and that I do have a problem with.

IMHO I can't help but think that you have got this the wrong way round. Having sex on account of economic hardship is through necessity in having to find the money for food and clothes to live and doing it to be able to afford possessions such as mobiles is purely materialism and not a justified reason!!!!

Parents selling their children to the sex trade is a completely different issue. I don't think you will find much in the way of this in Walking Street as they usually do it willingly (out of necessity in their eyes) to send money home to their families to support them!!

Edited August 21, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[kerryk]

this news story is much ado about nothing.

the comments were made at an india event... obvviously the speaker was putting a positive family spin for the indian tourism market. most tourists from india are families. you will rarely see an indian in a beer bar, karaoke joint, or massage parlor.

however, i saw a number of groups of indian men negotiating with Walking Street freelancers last weekend.... very amusing.and pathetic because of their attempts to get group sex at discount prices...

By group sex, you mean more than one man with a single woman, of course. While Thai girls don't seem at all put off with 3 in a bed, 2 of them have to be female (khatoi at a stretch).

I once made the mistake of asking the g/f if her friend, seen leaving the bar with 2 men, was going to sleep with both of them. She was highly offended that I would suggest such a thing.

Apparently consecutively would be OK (with a reasonable time gap) , but concurrently is a big no-no. I wonder if they get away with it in India, and is it only for economic reasons?

While this may be true of the girls you know, it certainly doesn't apply to all. It is all about money and deep seated racial feelings. But still about money. Only one Thai woman has ever asked me for two men. It was her birthday, but she wanted to pick both guys.

[chooka]

I left Pattaya years ago because the sex was too expensive. Good girls are cheaper. That's why they call them good girls.

Good one Kerry! If God made women to work for sex like in Pattaya he would have inserted a slot for the coins on the side and a Tachometer.

I think a man who has to resort to buying it is surely a desparate man. Why spend thousands on airfares and accomadation simply just to have 5 minutes with a woman. I guess a desparate person in desparate times will do just about anything.

I don't spend any money on airfare because I live in Thailand. Sex with two good looking 18 year old uni girls costs less than dinner for one at a decent restaurant. So most nights when I go out I weigh the relative merits of each experience. Paying for women simply gives me the option of saying goodbye without tears. Nor do I feel the least bit guilty as I am helping with their education. They win, Thailand wins and I win.

You still don't have to buy it. I have had my share of thai ladies and never bought a single one.

[OzMick]

While this may be true of the girls you know, it certainly doesn't apply to all. All the girls (that I know) who have children send some money home every month, even if they have to borrow it. You also seem to hang out in the seedier establishments - any girl caught using yaba, or even grass, would get the boot from any of the bars that I visit regularly. And they would know, there's no secrets with this many women around.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

Gee, Kerry, who died and made you the Morals Judge? On what do you base your holier-than-thou perceptions of morality - your Judeo-Christian upbringing with its history of stoning "fallen" women, of boy-buggering priests, of DNA proving that large lumps of the population calls the wrong man "Daddy". As much as you like bar girls, have you considered it takes two to tango - or do you deny putting on the dancing shoes? Why is the buyer any more moral than the seller?

They are still what they are - people - with different upbringing, culture and life experience, trying to make their way through this vale of sorrows, keep their kids fed, and have a little fun. Your figure of 60% might be correct, but about 45 of that 60 are men, many who have walked away from their family responsibilities (why not, Buddha did) to enjoy a better life and left the girl holding the baby.

Do you want to know the percentage of Thai men who have never had sex with a prostitute? IMHO it approaches zero, SFA. So here you are living in a sea of vice, feeling superior - the question is why?

[Arkady]

It would be quite odd if the new government were to chose a lowly consul general in a country where they need visas to come to Thailand as the mouthpiece to announce a new tourism policy. So we may assume that this is reiteration of an old policy that most Thai embassies and consulates around the world don't bother to mention. However, that doesn't mean that the new government isn't going to announce a policy of this type and that is indeed very likely, given past efforts by Thaksin with the Elite card and the social order policy, not to mention his ill fated revival of an old revolutionary decree that prohibited women from going out after 10.00 pm without a male chaperone.

In case anyone is interested, here is Mr Tomwit with his Ozzie wife at a party in India. http://www.filmitadka.in/page3-parties/-icia-art-exhibition/gernal-tomwit-jarnson-21375.html There seems to be a bit of tradition of Thais with farang wives beating the drum on social order etc, like Pracha who, as deputy interior minister in the first Thaksin government, went around testing young women's urine in pubs and cited the fact that some of them had shaved their pubic hair into heart shapes and even dyed it orange as evidence that Thailand had entered a terminal phase of moral degradation and could only be rescued by Thai Rak Thai and its enlightened social policies. Unfortunately Pracha's promising career as a moral crusader was cut short by revelations by Chuwit that he was a regular patron of the Davis group of establishments that served up vulnerable, impoverished young women for systematic abuse by male customers. No doubt his protestations to his wife that this was all part of his field research into moral degradation found a somewhat skeptical audience.

[connda]

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

You're obviously someone who resides on the lofty slopes of the moral high-ground. So let me ask you a few questions:

Have you ever lied?

Have you ever cheated on a test or when playing a game?

Have you ever taken something that wasn't yours?

Have you ever had sex out of wedlock?

Have you ever gotten intoxicated and then done something you regretted later?

Have you ever intentionally hurt anybody (physically, emotionally, economically)?

Have you ever broken a law?

If you answered "no" to all these, you are truly a saint and my hat's off to you.

If you answered "yes" to any of these, then you obviously have a "line in the sand" where you consider some immoral acts to be OK, and other immoral acts to not be OK.

Sort of hypocritical -- don't you think?

Interestingly enough, I've know women who have worked in the business, many of whom are practicing Buddhists...some who attend temple on a regular basis. Moral? Immoral?

Define Morality. Where do you draw your line in sands of righteousness?

Edited August 21, 2011 by connda

[Arkady]

this news story is much ado about nothing.

the comments were made at an india event... obvviously the speaker was putting a positive family spin for the indian tourism market. most tourists from india are families. you will rarely see an indian in a beer bar, karaoke joint, or massage parlor.

however, i saw a number of groups of indian men negotiating with Walking Street freelancers last weekend.... very amusing.and pathetic because of their attempts to get group sex at discount prices...

It may be true that most Indians come with families but, as they get more affluent, there seem to growing numbers of Indian sex tour groups coming to Thailand. Some massage parlours in Pattaya have started to cater exclusively to these groups and recruit portly masseuses to appeal to Indian guys who are steeped in the tradition of overweight starlets gyrating around in their Bollywood singing and dancing movies. Indian and mainland Chinese middle class groups are probably the fastest growth area for Thai tourism and many of them are now all male groups that you can see in Walking Street, Bangla Road and Soi Cowboy.

[chooka]

While this may be true of the girls you know, it certainly doesn't apply to all. All the girls (that I know) who have children send some money home every month, even if they have to borrow it. You also seem to hang out in the seedier establishments - any girl caught using yaba, or even grass, would get the boot from any of the bars that I visit regularly. And they would know, there's no secrets with this many women around.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

Gee, Kerry, who died and made you the Morals Judge? On what do you base your holier-than-thou perceptions of morality - your Judeo-Christian upbringing with its history of stoning "fallen" women, of boy-buggering priests, of DNA proving that large lumps of the population calls the wrong man "Daddy". As much as you like bar girls, have you considered it takes two to tango - or do you deny putting on the dancing shoes? Why is the buyer any more moral than the seller?

They are still what they are - people - with different upbringing, culture and life experience, trying to make their way through this vale of sorrows, keep their kids fed, and have a little fun. Your figure of 60% might be correct, but about 45 of that 60 are men, many who have walked away from their family responsibilities (why not, Buddha did) to enjoy a better life and left the girl holding the baby.

Do you want to know the percentage of Thai men who have never had sex with a prostitute? IMHO it approaches zero, SFA. So here you are living in a sea of vice, feeling superior - the question is why?

That's a large percentage of thai men who use prostitutes nearly 100% WOW. If they ever enforce the anti prostitution laws almost every man in Thailand will be incarcerated aswell as the 200K prostitutes. That would leave about 25 to 30 million lonely Thai women. I think I might stick around as a lot of women will be giving it away.

[Beetlejuice]

Sex tourism --are you joking, you know how much a bonk is these days. Things have got out of hand and now its 3000 at least. A lady drink is an arm and a leg which is close on to 150baht for some red water.

Short time rooms are going bust too. I can barely afford a motorbike,--certainly not both like we did in the good ole days for ha loi.

I remember when 2000 a day did all three bike, bird, booze,bed.

Yes, good point.

The cost of social and adult entertainments in Thailand is no longer the bargain it used to be.

As a matter of fact prices can now be equalled to those of the United States, Europe and Australia or even more in some places.

The problem is that these industries have become greedy, very few good deals to be had and many Western tourists are now seeking their holidaying pleasures elsewhere.

We are now talking about a social night out costing in the region of thousands rather than hundreds. Wine, women and song can prove to be the most expensive commodity in Thailand.

I believe they killed the golden goose long ago.

hehehe funny man I have a Thai friend now working in Zurich, it cost her 1 million baht for visa, plane ticket and other incidentals they charge 4,000baht for 15 min. and 10,000baht for 30 min. she works about 4 hours 6 days a week has Sunday off. Escort services in the US typically cost 200 to 400 dollars for 1 hour. At these rates it does appear Thailand is still a bargain

At a semi upscale bar here in the states you will pay in the neghibor hood of 10 dollars for a mixed drink with no option to chat to woman unless one decides she can lower herself to do so.

Well, I guess if all you care about are prostitutes you've found the bargain of a lifetime, eh? LOL

In Amsterdam going rate for a shag is 50 EUR. That's about 2,100 baht. Pretty much the going rate for anything you're going to pull out of a beer bar or club in Thailand. And before anybody tells us how they only pay 200 baht or some nonsense, we're talking what your standard, straight off the plane, newbie would pay.

There are a few other European cities with similar pricing so 50 EUR + 700 EUR flight or 50 EUR + 100 EUR flight? Europe is cheaper.

US? I could find $1,000 a night escorts too. You can get laid for less than $200 - $400. You can get an old rub and tug at your local massage place for well under $100.

But what I think the person you were responding to was talking about is the cost of living/visiting. Go into a farang restaurant and appetizers usually run about 150 - 200 baht. That's on par with US and Europe. The cost of imported beer is about the same as US or Europe. You can't compare the cost of some dive bar on Soi 22 with the cost of a drink at some upscale bar in the US. If you want to make the upscale to upscale comparison compare 200 baht a bottle of beer at Long Table.

And the problem with that is that the cost of doing business is a fraction of the cost of doing business in the US or Europe. An upscale bar in the US is paying premium rent for the space, a minimum wage of $8 - $10 per hour, has to actually meet safety and health codes, etc. So if they're charging $6 or $7 a bottle of beer you can sort of see where the money is going. In Thailand you pay about 1/2 of the rent, the staff costs per day what the US club pays per hour, and nobody cares about meeting safety or health codes. Yet, they're still charging $6 or $7 for a beer.

So yes, when you really do the comparisons of what the costs are in the US or Europe to Thailand . . . unless you're living out in the jungle or staying on Khao San Road the gap in the cost of living is narrowing every year. Throw in USD, GBP, and EUR weakness against the THB and for a lot of people it would be cheaper to holiday elsewhere.

And as far as bang for the buck, Cambodia and Vietnam look a lot more attractive than Thailand.

Wonderful professional posts and extremely informative.

If you are not already in Journalism, you should be.

What you say is more or less on the lines of what have been trying to explain, but could never put it so well.

I have friends and family from the USA, Europe, Australia, who were regular visitors to Thailand. Many are married to Thai ladies. Then over the last few years they simply stopped coming here because they are obtaining better deals elsewhere.

The drastic decreases in world currencies to baht, huge increases of airfares, greedy farang and Thai business owners hyping up prices, including the farang restaurant owners, the farang should always pay more attitudes of the Thais, scams and the general not putting any resources into environmental improvements has all placed it`s toll on tourism.

Yes, I agree, Thailand does have an image as being the sex capital of the world. But what is wrong with that, providing the system works. Some of Europe's red light districts were major tourist attraction for years, including the red light districts of Holland and Germany.

There is simply too few incentives to encourage tourists to visit Thailand and even the few are being eroded year by year.

They want to have their cake and eat it, to charge first world prices for third world facilities where satisfaction is never guaranteed, plus the recent scandals and bad worldwide publicity of tourists dying at the Down Town Inn in Chiang Mai, jetski scams, duty free shops in Bangkok scams and continuing unsolved murder cases of farangs and so on.

Personally, I cannot see the mentality and the logic regarding these policies.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[paulrobertlane]

here?? And what planet is that exactly?

Thailand shoots itself in the foot by not stamping down on the scams and rip offs and seem oblivious to the fact that these are not a "secret" any more. It will never be a family destination until these things are eradicated as as the Pattaya Jet Ski debacle has shown they are just interested in doing that.

[Member]

'Thailand wants' 'Thailand will' 'Thailand goes' always the same...

But who takes this nation serious if they even don't take themselves serious ?

Still the same potholes in the streets as 12 years ago, Thailand is Thailand and it will forever be Thailand and it's the biggest whorehouse in the world and it's not some boring and unprofessional officials who gonna change that. LOL

[Yeppe]

Change from the most famous sex spot to a family spot ? It´s impossible indeed. You should first remove all millions brothels and bars away before it could turn to a family spot. This means fighting with mafia and corrupted officers / high position people. This will never happen . All my friends in Europe they call Thailand as the place of all sluts - and for the very good reason. That Pattaya is AMAIZING for tourists - never seen such many bar girls. Commercial sex all around - no matter where you turn your head...Just try to be realistic, please.

[stingray]

Do this ruling peaple ever travel to Hawaii, or to the Riviera (South France and Italy) or Marokko or to the caribean Island (cheap and "all inclusive") or to Brasil?

How BKK could ever competite with Rio de Janeiro? I wonder why the Beaches of Copacabana and Ipanema are quite clean in compare with BKK dirty Waterfronts and Klongs? They can never improve to get the standarts what families need. Families not come to Pattaya to smell the traffic of overcrouded ugly looking diesel Taxi Pick Up Trucks! BTW in Rio they dont use Pick Up Trucks to squeeze customers in. In Hawaii, Waikiki they using Limos as Taxis instead of Picks. BTW the Trip to LOS from Europe and USA ist to long anyway. Families fly to Miami or Caribien Islands in half of the time and for less. Families not let their Childern swimming in a brown colored polluted Jomtien Beach between all the plastic garbage bags and foodrests arround.

BTW, i myself, ditn't came for the beaches to Thailand

Edited August 21, 2011 by stingray

[Briggsy]

15 pages already, blimey.

The article assumes or paints a picture for the reader that central government could, if it wanted, curtail Thailand's sex industry. Since a large chunk of the profits from this industry go to the local police chiefs and local politicians, it is very unlikely that central government could, so there will not be any change in Thailand's status as an international sex hub in the next 2 or 3 decades.

[Member]

Thailand to shed sex tourism tag SOON ? LOL SOON ??? &lt;deleted&gt; hahahehehurrrrp

The hopeless pretentions and sweet illussions of a failed nation as a the good old way to escape from reality...

Thailand better to shed corrupt policemen first

Thailand better to shed stealing girls first

Thailand better to shed fake Buddhism first

Thailand better to shed protecting Downtown Inn Hotels first

Thailand better to shed scamming foreigners first

Thailand better to shed double pricing first

Thailand better to shed traffic dangers first

Thailand better to shed ridiculous visa rules first

Thailand better to shed the rotten educational system first

Thailand better to shed crap internet first

Thailand better to shed reckless bus drivers first

etc. etc. etc.

[Maggusoil]

Apart from handing out ugly pills to Thai children, it would also be interesting to know what is prosecutable

as prostitution. I have not personally see anywhere it is done on the premises, except some pretty extravagant

lap dancing in dark corners of some clubs.

Men go to bars. There are pretty girls in the bars whose job it is to get men to drink and the girls get paid for the drinks

the men order. The men get tipsy and want to take the girl out somewhere for more fun. The bar charges the men for

depriving them of one of their workers for the night. Perfectly reasonable.

How the couple exchange their energies for the next hour or week or in some cases the rest of their lives is, it seems,

their "business". What prostitution?[twitter][/twitter]

[evanson]

This kind of government social engineering is made all the more funny by the fact that 80 to 90 percent of the sex trade is for the benefit of and used by Thai men. But I suppose that segment will not be going away.

Christ I get sick and bloody tired of this stupid 'mostly used by Thai men' (sic) CRAP to excuse your ignorance of THAI social mores, to whit, the Thais save all and sundry, foreign families included, from the unedifying spectacle of some drunken old fart parading his prostitute in public. And yes, it may seem hypocritical, but I'm grateful for their discretion.

Having lived on Phuket for 15 years, I have yet to see a Thai man/men slobbering over some tart in a bar/walking hand in hand with a girl young enough to be his granddaughter on every soi/beach/bar to the consternation of a holidaying family, and me. I'm sick of the way this island's sex trade has proliferated to even the quietest corners of the island (Rawai, once so lovely and peaceful).

So take your bloody viagara and sod off to Sinoukville. I'm sure they're even more desperate for your money than the chicks from the sticks here. Flame away!

Edited August 21, 2011 by evanson

[Member]

add,

Thailand better to shed corrupt policemen first

Thailand better to shed stealing girls first

Thailand better to shed fake Buddhism first

Thailand better to shed protecting Downtown Inn Hotels first

Thailand better to shed scamming foreigners first

Thailand better to shed double pricing first

Thailand better to shed traffic dangers first

Thailand better to shed ridiculous visa rules first

Thailand better to shed the rotten educational system first

Thailand better to shed crap internet first

Thailand better to shed reckless bus drivers first

Thailand better to shed crazy 'lese majeste' laws first

Thailand better to shed blocking websites first

Thailand better to shed ignorance against nature and environment first... etc. etc. etc.

But, as this are all non-issues for Thailand, this shows the backbone of the 'real Thailand' or 'how they are' so the rest, 'the image they would like to create' is far from reality and nothing more then total irrelevant nonsense, probably designed by some advertising buro.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Member

[HeavyDrinker]

Having lived on Phuket for 15 years, I have yet to see a Thai man/men slobbering over some tart in a bar/walking hand in hand with a girl young enough to be her granddaughter on every soi/beach/bar to the consternation of a holidaying family,

I see it almost nightly.

You obviously live with your head in a bucket or never mix socially with Thais.

and me. I'm sick of the way this island's sex trade has proliferated to even the quietest corners of the island (Rawai, once so lovely and peaceful).

Aw diddums.

Supply and demand I'm afraid.

If it's too much for you then move elsewhere.

Thailand is a living breathing country where people need to make a living no matter how.

If that upsets your world vision, then there are plenty of corners of the world untouched by such atrocities.

Edited August 21, 2011 by HeavyDrinker

[kerryk]

While this may be true of the girls you know, it certainly doesn't apply to all. All the girls (that I know) who have children send some money home every month, even if they have to borrow it. You also seem to hang out in the seedier establishments - any girl caught using yaba, or even grass, would get the boot from any of the bars that I visit regularly. And they would know, there's no secrets with this many women around.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

Gee, Kerry, who died and made you the Morals Judge? On what do you base your holier-than-thou perceptions of morality - your Judeo-Christian upbringing with its history of stoning "fallen" women, of boy-buggering priests, of DNA proving that large lumps of the population calls the wrong man "Daddy". As much as you like bar girls, have you considered it takes two to tango - or do you deny putting on the dancing shoes? Why is the buyer any more moral than the seller?

They are still what they are - people - with different upbringing, culture and life experience, trying to make their way through this vale of sorrows, keep their kids fed, and have a little fun. Your figure of 60% might be correct, but about 45 of that 60 are men, many who have walked away from their family responsibilities (why not, Buddha did) to enjoy a better life and left the girl holding the baby.

Do you want to know the percentage of Thai men who have never had sex with a prostitute? IMHO it approaches zero, SFA. So here you are living in a sea of vice, feeling superior - the question is why?

Actually I base my moral judgments on the prevailing Thai morality that keeps about 60% of the population both male and female away from the red light business.

I wish I knew a better word than morality to define what I meant but I don't. Hookers lie, cheat and steal and are addicted to drugs, alcohol and tobacco at a much higher rate than the rest of the population. They, however lovely, are a bad bet for anything but a short relationship. As much as I have been in love with women of the night in both the West and Asia I was lucky enough to avoid a long term commitment. Everyman is looking for a hooker with a heart of gold at some time during their life if they live long enough but I don't think they exist.

It is however an interesting point about the morality of seller or buyer. I see nothing immoral about selling or buying sex. It is not the act either for buyer or seller that I find immoral. It is the business that creates immoral people. The customer makes his purchase, leaves and then goes about his normal life. Maybe his purchase has saved his marriage, who am I to judge but the seller is immersed in the business 24/7. It is that total immersion in a business that attracts the lowest element of society that is harmful. It changes the ladies and it changes them quickly. It also changes sex pats, I would not underestimate that effect either. It has changed me. I am no longer afraid of a woman walking out on me. And if a woman treats me poorly I am no longer afraid of walking out on her. There are lots of women available immediatly in the allegorical sea of Thailand.

I used to spend a lot of money on women I didn't really care about for sex in the West, no more, not in Thailand.

When I go to sleep with a P4P lady I count my money and hide my valuables. Do you really think this is silly? I mean deep down inside do you? When I sleep with my GF nightly I don't count the money in my wallet. I did at first but when she started contributing to our lifestyle in an equal amount as myself I found it unnecessary.

[Jingthing]

Thais will be "shedding" a lot of things, but sex tourism won't be one of them, wink nod nod wink.

[kerryk]

This kind of government social engineering is made all the more funny by the fact that 80 to 90 percent of the sex trade is for the benefit of and used by Thai men. But I suppose that segment will not be going away.

Christ I get sick and bloody tired of this stupid 'mostly used by Thai men' (sic) CRAP to excuse your ignorance of THAI social mores, to whit, the Thais save all and sundry, foreign families included, from the unedifying spectacle of some drunken old fart parading his prostitute in public. And yes, it may seem hypocritical, but I'm grateful for their discretion.

Having lived on Phuket for 15 years, I have yet to see a Thai man/men slobbering over some tart in a bar/walking hand in hand with a girl young enough to be his granddaughter on every soi/beach/bar to the consternation of a holidaying family, and me. I'm sick of the way this island's sex trade has proliferated to even the quietest corners of the island (Rawai, once so lovely and peaceful).

So take your bloody viagara and sod off to Sinoukville. I'm sure they're even more desperate for your money than the chicks from the sticks here. Flame away!

My old GF owns a brothel in Rawai. She has a Thai BF and a Malaysian sugar daddy. They hang out in public all the time. She is Thai and has benefited immensely from the sex business and she has put anyone from her village to work when they were on hard times. I fronted her the cash to buy the place and she has done well and paid me back.

She has all Asian customers. Her staff would feint if they saw a Farang come in.

Before Phuket she was Mama San at a 100 lady massage parlor that also had no Farang customers.

I don't live in a tourist area, wouldn't go near one and I have to tell you all the brothels are Thai managed and have all Asian customers. Farangs are not a very important part of the market. Too small really to mention in the general scope of things. The Thai guys I see at 2AM sloppy drunk and mauling the very young coyote dancers are definitely Thai and they are definitely in public and no one definitely cares.

[evanson]

Having lived on Phuket for 15 years, I have yet to see a Thai man/men slobbering over some tart in a bar/walking hand in hand with a girl young enough to be her granddaughter on every soi/beach/bar to the consternation of a holidaying family,

I see it almost nightly.

You obviously live with your head in a bucket or never mix socially with Thais.

and me. I'm sick of the way this island's sex trade has proliferated to even the quietest corners of the island (Rawai, once so lovely and peaceful).

Aw diddums.

Supply and demand I'm afraid.

If it's too much for you then move elsewhere.

Thailand is a living breathing country where people need to make a living no matter how.

If that upsets your world vision, then there are plenty of corners of the world untouched by such atrocities.

I have been married to a Thai for 12 years. Almost all of my friends are Thai, as I cannot abide the 'types' of Westerners, male and female who make up the expat community here. Your being a case in point.

Your line 'where people need to make a living no matter how'. What? Even selling their arse/children's &lt;deleted&gt;/labour?

Your 'aw diddums' speaks volumes about you. as does your nik. Now off you pop for another Chang and a grope.