Halt To Oil Levy Approved: Thailand

[Jimi007]

I am confused, what is Gasoline, gasahol? I asked my thai wife what is the difference and she does not know these terms either. Gasoline is Kerosine right? and gasohol is gas, same as you use for thai stoves. So what has gas got to do with the oil levy? I can understand gasoline (kerosine) would matter as it is a by product of petrol.

AFAIK

Gasoline is the N.American version of Petrol.

Gasohol is a mixture of ethanol and gasoline

Kerosene is sometimes called Paraffin and is used also as jet fuel.

LPG is Liquified Petroleum Gas a mixture of propane & butane..

LNG (NGV) is Liquified natural Gas (CNG).

Perhaps others can be more enlightening with more fuelish information.

Ok so Gasoline is actually petroleum. I wish the Americans would conform with the rest of the world and simply call it petrol would be a lot less confusing. Gasahol is an American blend of Petroleum and alchol? I believe this was outlawed in Australia a few years back as it was destroying engines. Why is it still being used in Thailand. Natural gas I understand as it is conectect to almost every home in australia just as water is comes straight out of the ground into homes.

Gasoline or petrol is a translucent, liquid mixture, derived from petroleum that is primarily used as a fuel ininternal combustion engines. It consists mostly of organic compounds obtained by the fractional distillation of petroleum, enhanced with a variety of additives. Some gasolines also contain ethanol as an alternative fuel. In North America, the term "gasoline" often shortened incolloquial usage to "gas", whereas most current or former Commonwealth nations, use the term "petrol". Under normal ambient conditions its material state is liquid, unlike liquefied petroleum gas or "natural gas". In California when I was there last month I didn't see any ethanol in the gasoline...

And yes most urban areas of the US have piped in natural gas. My houses in California have natural gas heat, water heater, clothes dryer and cooking range. My house here has a tank of LPG sitting not far from the cooktop, an electric on demand water heater, no need for a heater, or a clothes dryer...

Edited August 27, 2011 by Jimi007

[rakman]

this is first time posting.....previous post didn't enter system. Fuel in Thailand is cheaper than west coast USA. Thailand diesel is subsidized by gov. Not the case in USA...just my 2 cents

Gasoline on the US west coast is more expensive due to the RFG-II (ReFormulated Gas version 2) government regulation. At least Thailand has for each grade 1 formulation, not a hundred different mixes demanded by regional governments. The US regulators were the guys who pushed MTBE on the US, with disastrous results.

Using ethanol for fuel is fool hardy. It must be subsidized to be made and used, costs more in energy than it produces and takes farmland away from food production. Subsidies take money out of the economy, lose a bunch in government inefficiency, and give it to a select golden few. Subsidies are a wealth redistribution scheme.

95% Gas (5% ethanol) is tolerated in most new engines today (check your manual). 90% Gas (10% ethanol) is not and will cause issues with fuel pumps, fuel lines and fuel systems. Only vehicles that are E-85 capable can go to this fuel without issues. Carbureted engines, especially old ones, don't do well with ethanol blended fuels.

Newer vehicles are much more emissions friendly when new, and due to the general lack of maintenance by most people, a steady supply of new vehicles, especially motorbikes, will continue to replace the older dead or dying ones.

The elimination of 2 stroke engines helps reduce particulate pollution and air pollution, too.

Once technology is mature enough to allow the market to dictate the acceptance of electric vehicles, and the infrastructure to support them, then maybe we'll see a reduction in fossil fuels in ground transportation. Forget about LPG, H2 or electric commercial passenger planes, that will never happen due to the physics of fuel energy/volume/weight requirements. It was once estimated in the 1960's to switch over Los Angeles, California to electric vehicles, the amount of electrical power would have to quadruple.

Prices and improvements in solar power are getting close to being practical. Electric vehicles are not currently practical due to the limited on board supply and long charging cycles.

Energy loss in distribution is a major impact regardless of the method of generation. Pilot tests in superconducting power transmission have shown good results.

All these technologies will come about once the market deems them suitable. Having the government dictate what's to be used is a time proven waste of money and resources, tied in with crony-capitalism.

Government does best which governs least and enforces the laws to protect it's citizens.

[Schnitzel]

I've just bought me a bottle of palm vegetbles oil today and spent 55 Baht. Last week it was 39 Baht, so it gained around 30%.

For me it doesn't matter as I don't work here 12 hrs @ every day but I'm shure there are others out there

[Jimi007]

this is first time posting.....previous post didn't enter system. Fuel in Thailand is cheaper than west coast USA. Thailand diesel is subsidized by gov. Not the case in USA...just my 2 cents

What are you talking about? I was in California last month and regular unleaded was about $3.70 a gallon. I just looked online and down the street from my house in Santa Cruz regular is $3.64 now and premium is $3.89 a US gallon, which is 3.785 liters. The current price here for regular is ฿41.94 x 3.785= ฿158.53/gal. At today's TT exchange rate of ฿29.85 that's $5.31/gal. To be fair regular here is 91 octane, so if you compare it to US premium at $3.89 Thailand is still way more! After the price goes down to 34.77 it's still $4.41/gal. I'm a bit happier, my motorbikes use 91 octane gasoline and my car says 95 octane on the fuel filler cover and it's a Nissan 1600cc.

[rakman]

In California when I was there last month I didn't see any ethanol in the gasoline...

And yes most urban areas of the US have piped in natural gas. My houses in California have natural gas heat, water heater, clothes dryer and cooking range. My house here has a tank of LPG sitting not far from the cooktop, an electric on demand water heater, no need for a heater, or a clothes dryer...

Trimmed reply to save space, this thread is getting good.

All gas in California contains 5.7% ethanol: http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/types_of_gasoline.html

New US government regulation is pushing 10% ethanol (to aid the ethanol producers and raise food prices) in gas. Current engines can handle 5%, 10% will cause new problems, especially for older (pre 2003) vehicles.

Ethanol needs plenty of energy to distill it (like whiskey) and lots of water. Where does that energy come from? Oil or coal most likely.

[rakman]

I've just bought me a bottle of palm vegetbles oil today and spent 55 Baht. Last week it was 39 Baht, so it gained around 30%.

For me it doesn't matter as I don't work here 12 hrs @ every day but I'm shure there are others out there

Welcome to the start of hyper-inflation that is spanning the globe.

[gregb]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The idea behind the original policy was to increase the percentage of liquid fuels produced domestically within Thailand. This is absolutely critical given the extreme volatility and shortages in the global oil market. It is going to be even more critical in the future.

Meanwhile, the PT seems insistent on killing the fledgling industry within Thailand, so that when it really becomes absolutely essential, it won't be here at all.

Morons.

You believe the prices are high because of a shortage??? lol......

Someone still thinks what comes off CNN is the truth and nothing but the truth. Wake up.

www.infowars.com

I suggest it is you who is living in a state of perpetual dreams. Sadly, yes, oil is a limited resource, and its production has peaked. The future would be much brighter if this were not the case. Geology and physics are rather unforgiving that way, despite what some conspiracy theorists on the internet may wish to believe. Supplies are becoming tight, and the only way to deal with that is by killing demand through cycles of high prices, recession and small recoveries, with each recovery leaving everyone on average slightly worse off. This will lead to tremendous variability in prices from now on. A reliable local supply of ethanol and other liquid fuels will not fix this problem, but it will help to buffer against these price shocks.

This is how it is going to be for the rest of your life. Get used to it. No website is going to increase petroleum flow rates by arranging more electrons into pretty words on a computer. Many try to obscure the unfortunate reality of peak oil by quoting huge reserves of low quality fuels, but they conveniently leave out the fact that these reserves can never be produced fast enough to make up for the relentless depletion in conventional wells.

Sorry to be the one that has to tell you your tinfoil buddies are pulling your leg on this one. Go get a degree in geology and you won't be so easily fooled.

[Billmont]

In most countries and especially in "Farangland" when fuel prices increase there are widespread protests. However when one country reduces the price of fuel, what happens? The same Farangs who moved to Thailand because they could not afford to live in their own country protest against lower prices, for various reasons. Yet these same Farangs have an income, which while not enough to live in their own country, have more than enough to live in Thailand and well exceeds a normal Thai salary. Therefore while you are not impressed with the price reduction the vast majority of the locals really appreciate lower fuel costs. When you have enough money to live in your own country and welcome high fuel prices and condemn price reductions then you can write such rubbish with a clear conscience. Until then better to keep quiet and be considered a fool rather than put your thoughts to print and confirm that you are!

[gregb]

In most countries and especially in "Farangland" when fuel prices increase there are widespread protests. However when one country reduces the price of fuel, what happens? The same Farangs who moved to Thailand because they could not afford to live in their own country protest against lower prices, for various reasons. Yet these same Farangs have an income, which while not enough to live in their own country, have more than enough to live in Thailand and well exceeds a normal Thai salary. Therefore while you are not impressed with the price reduction the vast majority of the locals really appreciate lower fuel costs. When you have enough money to live in your own country and welcome high fuel prices and condemn price reductions then you can write such rubbish with a clear conscience. Until then better to keep quiet and be considered a fool rather than put your thoughts to print and confirm that you are!

The word "ditto" immediately comes to mind.

Some people are drug addicts. They really appreciate free drugs. I guess that means we should all simply stop trying to make intelligent decisions and prepare for the horror that is coming in the future. Let's just all live stupidly in the moment.

This government certainly does.

[diehard60]

About time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But government people earning their wages? The only work most of them, which I know is very difficult and hrad, is to go to the ATM machine and get their monthly salaries. I mean that is difficult because they have to figure how much to give their girl / boy friends first. Hahahahhaahahahaha

[mca]

I wonder how many on here would be venting at the government for their crackpot scheme should the Dems have won the election and instituted it? Looks like a case of "damned if they do, damned if they don't " for PTP on TVF.

You might like to review your logic in this post. It's a crackpot scheme, the Democrats didn't win and didn't institute it, PTP did both, and you can't find a way to refute justifiable criticism of the scheme, so it must be political bias on the part of the critics. Uh-huh.

Well obviously I'm supporting justifiable criticism of the scheme by calling it crackpot. I'm not refuting anything as you suggested. A simple question though. If the Dems had instituted the scheme if they were in power would you be posting on here condemning it? Truly?

Edited August 27, 2011 by mca

[diehard60]

Not much benefit for the average person. Pretty much everybody uses gasohol, apart from people with very old vehicles, or motorbike nuts who want the extra 0.1% performance regular petrol gives them.

Price cuts in diesel will have maybe a small effect on prices of consumer goods (although businesses here are not in the habit of passing savings onto customers!), but at the moment I think maybe 50% of the big trucks run on NGV, so impact will not be big.

Sales of gasohol will take a massive drop as there will be not much or no price difference with regular petrol, which I assure you the cassava growers will not appreciate.

I don't see the point really, apart of course for Pua Thai needing to fulfill their election promises!

Would you like to borrow my glasses? This cut is saving me about 2,000 baht a month. And maybe not just me. Please open your eyes and stop being like Dem party thinkers.

[moe666]

Gashol the biggest rip off since who knows. How much energy is required to grow all that cassava if thats what they use, then they harvest it, more energy. Then drive to a refinery for processing to alcohol. Then shipping and mixing into gasoline.

I know the corn converion here in the states is a big ripoff as the cost and energy consumption far excedes the savings. I would supect its the same for cassava.

[fasteddie]

Not much benefit for the average person. Pretty much everybody uses gasohol, apart from people with very old vehicles, or motorbike nuts who want the extra 0.1% performance regular petrol gives them.

Price cuts in diesel will have maybe a small effect on prices of consumer goods (although businesses here are not in the habit of passing savings onto customers!), but at the moment I think maybe 50% of the big trucks run on NGV, so impact will not be big.

Sales of gasohol will take a massive drop as there will be not much or no price difference with regular petrol, which I assure you the cassava growers will not appreciate.

I don't see the point really, apart of course for Pua Thai needing to fulfill their election promises!

All new fuel-injected Honda motorcycles have a sticker mandating the use of 91 petrol. Extra performance is barely noticeable, but why void your warranty for a few baht /week?

Local bike shop owner tells me she has 2-3 carby model bikes in every day for carburettor clean, all running Gasohol 95. Gasohol 95 will absorb moisture from the air and it accumulates in the carby fuel bowl, and it affects bikes more when only partial filled - more air = more moisture.

I'm no greeny, but the use of renewable energy sources has to make some sort of sense, and the renewable fuels have to be cheaper to encourage use and compensate for lost performance and extra consumption. This is a tax break for the wealthy to be funded by public debt, and makes as much sense as the rest of this government's policies.

What sort of sense is using up arable land to grow airy fairy green fuels on some fools errand to halt climate change while food gets scarcer and more expensive. Climate change is natural, it's always happened and always will and man's pathetic attempts to make a difference are laughable.

[anterian]

One point worth mentioning, the world is rapidly heading towards a food crisis, this has been aggravated by land being converted from food production to biofuel production. It's a swings and roundabouts situation.

[abcz9]

Well, it's nice to know that all the people driving Ferraris, Porsches, etc. will enjoy paying less for their octane-95 and octane-91 petrol while the rest of us enjoy the resulting higher pollution levels.

But seriously, what is the rationale for encouraging the use of 100% petroleum-derived petrol and diesel fuels? Most automobiles made in the past 3-5 years can run on E20, and outside of Bangkok it's still difficult to find a filling station that has it.

i live in sakon nakhon and i can get e20 more than i can get it in pattaya.

[timekeeper]

About time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But government people earning their wages? The only work most of them, which I know is very difficult and hrad, is to go to the ATM machine and get their monthly salaries. I mean that is difficult because they have to figure how much to give their girl / boy friends first. Hahahahhaahahahaha

thats if they can remember their pin number

most Thais i see at ATM's get bleeding fingers punching in numbers before giving up and losing the card

this would apply doubly to red MP's .................

[Soutpeel]

One point worth mentioning, the world is rapidly heading towards a food crisis, this has been aggravated by land being converted from food production to biofuel production. It's a swings and roundabouts situation.

Yes I agree, and believe supports the case for increasing offshore exploration, drilling and production around the world, when the worlds population starves blame the tree huggers...

[Billmont]

In most countries and especially in "Farangland" when fuel prices increase there are widespread protests. However when one country reduces the price of fuel, what happens? The same Farangs who moved to Thailand because they could not afford to live in their own country protest against lower prices, for various reasons. Yet these same Farangs have an income, which while not enough to live in their own country, have more than enough to live in Thailand and well exceeds a normal Thai salary. Therefore while you are not impressed with the price reduction the vast majority of the locals really appreciate lower fuel costs. When you have enough money to live in your own country and welcome high fuel prices and condemn price reductions then you can write such rubbish with a clear conscience. Until then better to keep quiet and be considered a fool rather than put your thoughts to print and confirm that you are!

The word "ditto" immediately comes to mind.

Some people are drug addicts. They really appreciate free drugs. I guess that means we should all simply stop trying to make intelligent decisions and prepare for the horror that is coming in the future. Let's just all live stupidly in the moment.

This government certainly does.

I do not know too much about drugs so I bow to your superior knowledge but perhaps you sould consider taking a little less

The UK has the 3rd highest price for fuel in the world and is the UK saving the world. I think not!

How about the following and then consider Thailand where the average price is about 60p/litre

TOP TEN CHEAPEST PETROL PRICES WORLDWIDE Position

Country

City

Average price per litre

1

Venezuela

Caracas

2/3p

2

Saudi Arabia

Riyadh

8p

3

Libya

Tripoli

9p

4

Turkmenistan

Ashgabat

12p

5

Bahrain

Manama

13p

6

Kuwait

Kuwait City

14p

7

Qatar

Doha

15p

8

Egypt

Cairo

19p

9

Oman

Muscat

20p

10

Algeria

Algiers

20p

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2029134/Worlds-10-cheapest-countries-petrol.html#ixzz1WHTZ7goQ

[bubba]

Interesting to see in today's newspaper that bus fares, both urban and inter-provincial, have not been reduced. This will certainly be a windfall for those businessmen.

So the only people who benefited from this are (1) transport operators who now have a higher profit margin and (2) the people who have enough money to buy their own car or pickup. The real grassroots whose only option is the bus get nothing, apart from a potential rise in their cooking gas price. I'm guessing that more than half of the PT supporters fall into the latter group.m,

[Chupup]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not recall any government anywhere in the world reducing a tax on gasoline in the whole of human (gasoline) history.

This is insane at a time when all Thai towns and cities have polluted air from clogged roadways. Any responsible government should be increasing taxes to reduce dependence on vehicles, whether two- or four-wheeled. (Or three with some tuk-tuks.) With extra taxes you can begin the much-needed modernisation of the rail system.

Reduced use of vehicles might also lead to better health. Btw, how often do you see a Thai person walking in the city. I am in Chiang Mai, and the only people I see walking are farangs like myself (breathing in the diesel fumes as I wait for traffic lights to change....)

I like it, food costs should follow along with other required items, just get on yer bike and stop sniffing fumes

[fiddlehead]

Thoughts:

Yeah, when food prices starting rising quickly a few years ago, they said it was because of the cost of oil.

So, will we see them come down? Yeah right!

I sometimes put 91 benzine (100% benzine) in my motorbike (42 baht/litre)

and sometimes i put the gasahol in there (36 baht/litre)

I have found that I get much better performance and about 15% better mileage when i use the better (non alcholic) benzine.

Since it cost about 15% more, it works out even.

So, I prefer the faster pickup, more power when I need it to the slugging along feel of the gasahol. Same price overall, better performance.

[arthurwait]

The price of gasohol has not been reduced.

Only 91 and 95 octane petrol is reduced. which will assist the motorbike maniacs, but be of little use to the majority of car users. 95 octane petrol is now very hard to find.

Old cars use 91 and they are the majority especially outside of BK and of course the motorcycle maniacs like you say all who vote Taksin and are expecting their tablets and wage hike.

[whybother]

The price of gasohol has not been reduced.

Only 91 and 95 octane petrol is reduced. which will assist the motorbike maniacs, but be of little use to the majority of car users. 95 octane petrol is now very hard to find.

Old cars use 91 and they are the majority especially outside of BK and of course the motorcycle maniacs like you say all who vote Taksin and are expecting their tablets and wage hike.

6 year olds riding motorcycles, working and voting Thaksin?

[mca]

The price of gasohol has not been reduced.

Only 91 and 95 octane petrol is reduced. which will assist the motorbike maniacs, but be of little use to the majority of car users. 95 octane petrol is now very hard to find.

Old cars use 91 and they are the majority especially outside of BK and of course the motorcycle maniacs like you say all who vote Taksin and are expecting their tablets and wage hike.

6 year olds riding motorcycles, working and voting Thaksin?

And if you consider the last time Thaksin was eligible to be voted for they'd have been all of 1 years old.

[arthurwait]

The price of gasohol has not been reduced.

Only 91 and 95 octane petrol is reduced. which will assist the motorbike maniacs, but be of little use to the majority of car users. 95 octane petrol is now very hard to find.

Old cars use 91 and they are the majority especially outside of BK and of course the motorcycle maniacs like you say all who vote Taksin and are expecting their tablets and wage hike.

6 year olds riding motorcycles, working and voting Thaksin?

Mental age ?

[arthurwait]

This is insane at a time when all Thai towns and cities have polluted air from clogged roadways. Any responsible government should be increasing taxes to reduce dependence on vehicles, whether two- or four-wheeled. (Or three with some tuk-tuks.) With extra taxes you can begin the much-needed modernisation of the rail system.

Reduced use of vehicles might also lead to better health. Btw, how often do you see a Thai person walking in the city. I am in Chiang Mai, and the only people I see walking are farangs like myself (breathing in the diesel fumes as I wait for traffic lights to change....)

So it's you making all that traffic stop and putting more pollution in the air so that you may traipse about the city.

To be fair, I hardly think this will encourage those who don't have/can't afford wheels to go out and buy some, or indeed drive more; it'll simply leave more money in people's pockets. On the pollution front, if you want to help, try and convince Thais to lobby government to clean up tuk-tuks and songthaews. Certainly in the case of CM, it is these junk vehicles that are coughing out the majority of pollution in the city, not your average Vios/scooter driving joe!

Precisely!

I agree...

One thing that's silly though is they're "compensating" the people with reserves. These people gain HUGE when the price goes up, but when they go down they don't lose? Ugh.

Do you mean the petrol stations with reserves ? If so no.

The buying price also goes up when the selling price does, they is no huge gain. They is bugger all gain, nada, nothing as PTT basically control the selling price.

We had to sell at a loss a few months back when diesel should have been around 37 baht a litre, but the government were keeping it at 30 baht. The Government were conpensating PTT garages, but no one else.

The private stations just have to suck it up, if we weren't compensated for what was in the tank we would have had to write off about 150,000 baht, why should we so the government can win votes from the stupid ?

They aren't doing the country a favour they are simply spending the emergency fund which was already supposedly near its limit.

If oil prices go up again to what they were a few months back and the fund has gone expect 40 baht a litre diesel and christ knows what for 91 and 95. And no the petrol station owners won't be gaining out of this as sales will fall even more than they have in the last few years and the profit on a litre will be fuc_k all.

A government can't support this with money they supposedly haven't got. :jap:

[whybother]

6 year olds riding motorcycles, working and voting Thaksin?

Mental age ?

Ahhh ... Yep. Understand now.

[arthurwait]

In most countries and especially in "Farangland" when fuel prices increase there are widespread protests. However when one country reduces the price of fuel, what happens? The same Farangs who moved to Thailand because they could not afford to live in their own country protest against lower prices, for various reasons. Yet these same Farangs have an income, which while not enough to live in their own country, have more than enough to live in Thailand and well exceeds a normal Thai salary. Therefore while you are not impressed with the price reduction the vast majority of the locals really appreciate lower fuel costs. When you have enough money to live in your own country and welcome high fuel prices and condemn price reductions then you can write such rubbish with a clear conscience. Until then better to keep quiet and be considered a fool rather than put your thoughts to print and confirm that you are!

Wow ! Just wow !

[Lite Beer]

PM: Oil price reductions aimed at helping poor people

BANGKOK, 28 August 2011 (NNT)-Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has said the decline in oil prices was to help people of lower socio-economic income cope with their expenses while saying that the Energy Ministry will cushion the impact on fuel crop farmers as motorists have now turned to regular fuel.

According to the Prime Minister, the government continues to support fuel crop growers by encouraging the alternative energy consumption in the country. She added that the reduction of the levies for the state Oil Fund for diesel was designed to help ease the household expenses for Thai people.

However, she said the government would draw up a long term plan with emphasis on promoting the use of natural gas. Meanwhile, The Prime Minister said there was no report of Thai nationals affected by Hurricane Irene in the United States. She has instructed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to accommodate and provide necessary help to Thai citizens in time of crisis.

-- NNT 2011-08-28