Valuing A Honda Click

[delatroy]

I've been renting a Honda Click for a couple of months for 2,500 THB per month in Samui. Over the weekend it was stolen and I need to give cash to the owner however she wants 40,000 THB which I believe is really unfair.

I want to determine market value of the bike that I was renting and go back to her with proof instead of just "trusting" her word and battling verbally.

So really I want to tie down the following which will help me narrow down fair value:

1. Year
2. Mileage
3. Model

My question is how can I determine the above so that she doesn't take advantage of my misfortune without having access to the machine? She claimed today that the bike is 2009 and doesn't know what mileage it's done. I'm not an expert but the bike is trash. I guess it's somewhere between 2006 and 2008. I think it's worth somewhere between 15,000 and 25,000 just from digging around classfields for Clicks for these years. I recall that the mileage counter has a 1 for the leftmost digit meaning that it's done 10,000KM +.

I know that all bikes must have a tax disc and insurance (CMI) by law, therefore I guess there's a written record of this somewhere which shows production year, model, owner name, ccs, etc right? This is the clearest idea in my mind to get the information about the bike that we need. Does anyone know what this document would be called / what it looks like, etc? Is there a database that I can look up vehicle registration numbers to get more information about the machine?

Any ideas / suggestions would really be a big help.

[wana]

its probably worth 12,000- 15,000 thb if its 2006-2007 ex rental honda click in crappy condition as you say it was .......the only problem is ,getting the owner to agree on your valuation

thai people dont understand depreciation ,she probably paid 40,000 thb for it and it will cost around that much to buy a new one so thats probably what shes basing her fiqures on

you can check the prices on the classified adds and they are usually a bit higher than prices it actually changes hands for

the police might be able to "find" it for cheaper than replacing it especially on an island

i know a english guy who paid the police to get some very expensive photography equipment and 2 laptops back after a condo theft but in the end he got it back for 10 or 15k to the police and that was in central bangkok

who said the thai police were lazy ..........they can move extremely fast when they want to are bribed to

[delatroy]

Man I'm fuc_king raging.

Just came back from the police, renter and owner debacle. It was my idea to call the police thinking that they would mediate what seems to me like something completely fundamental to business. I break something, I cover your loss - simple as.

So they wouldn't tell me the year, mileage, model, ccs, produce any documents - nothing. The owner just said 40,000 and pleaded with the police over and over and said I wasn't paying. I tried to explain as best that I'm delighted to pay "fair value" - it was me that called the police in the first place <deleted>..

In the end.. the police man was like.. pay 40k or the cuffs are going on and you'll be locked up downstairs. Literally that's what happened.

I hate Thailand.

[wantan]

Things like this happen in many countries not only in Thailand. But i would be upset too. The good thing is that it was a cheap bike. The bad thing that a Click is still 40,000Baht.

[delatroy]

It's just horrible. Make me feel so bad now. I mean I didn't do anything wrong whatsoever and I come out as the villain that's €400 shortchanged. Why..

I just wanted to determine cost but the owner wouldn't tell me any details of the bike at all. The owner just said 40,000 I think because she didn't understand depreciation as wana pointed out. They are in business but cannot understand depreciation....... I was like... why do you think there's a difference between a 2005 bike and a 2010 bike. They bought a new bike years ago which has degraded over time and then gave me this now inferior product so why am I covering the costs of a new bike if I didn't get this product in the first place. It's plain as fuc_king day.

Can I do anything at this stage? Go to another police station to talk to someone in hope that they have enough brain to understand how money and business works?

[MAJIC]

its probably worth 12,000- 15,000 thb if its 2006-2007 ex rental honda click in crappy condition as you say it was .......the only problem is ,getting the owner to agree on your valuation

thai people dont understand depreciation ,she probably paid 40,000 thb for it and it will cost around that much to buy a new one so thats probably what shes basing her fiqures on

you can check the prices on the classified adds and they are usually a bit higher than prices it actually changes hands for

the police might be able to "find" it for cheaper than replacing it especially on an island

i know a english guy who paid the police to get some very expensive photography equipment and 2 laptops back after a condo theft but in the end he got it back for 10 or 15k to the police and that was in central bangkok

who said the thai police were lazy ..........they can move extremely fast when they want to are bribed to

It might be an idea to checkout the price of a new Honda Click nowadays.

I bought a Brand New Honda Click 120 cc in 2008 for 46,000 Baht from a Honda Dealer,I can't see it would have gone up considerably?

Perhaps also you could ask 2 or 3 Honda Dealers for their opinion of the value of the missing rental Bike.

SORRY THIS POST WAS COMPOSED BEFORE I SAW YOUR LAST POSTS!

Edited October 10, 2011 by MAJIC

[delatroy]

I cannot determine fair value because they don't tell me the information that I need to know to determine that. I'm confident that it's not 40k however. he point is what can I actually do anyway at this point.

[teflonjon]

Was it stolen from your hotel/house? Did you tell her where you were staying when you rented it? My money says she's the one that stole the bike to begin with.

[delatroy]

It wasn't her. Was stolen outside a pub miles away.

[HappyInCM]

It wasn't her. Was stolen outside a pub miles away.

isn't there a police report of the missing bike? wouldn't that list these details?

[wantan]

Are you a legal resident? Do you have friends (best would be Thai natives) who would be well respected (or even feared) by the police? Making big noise at some other police station could be a very bad idea. You don't know what will happen. What do you want to tell them? That their collegues are stupid? I guess it is not worth it. Best would be to ask local residents for help. Maybe someone knows someone who knows someone ... who can help you. But as a tourist you have not a big chance to do anything i guess. Do they have your passport? But even run away with passport could be a bad idea. Don't know. It is Thailand and you are the alien. Its their game.

[bangkokrick]

My Missus just valued her Click on a trade in against a new Honda. The Click is registered 2006 and is in good condition and they offered 20,000 Baht for the trade at 74,000 Baht.

They have to make a bit on the sale, so i think that 25K is probably about right.

[delatroy]

Legal resident though I don't think I'll be here much longer with this. No Thai friends to speak of.

[RED21]

You could have just replaced the bike with another second hand (something around the 20 -25k mark). People here can be greedy and opportunistic. I'm sure the owner understands the value of depreciation, but seeing as she can make a whole lot of dough from you with the situation, you get it right?

I think you were screwed and the BIBs were probably in it too. Too bad it's too late now as the BIBs have given you a quotation. Maybe they'll still agree with replacing the bike, instead of paying for it.

[rodcourt49]

Legal resident though I don't think I'll be here much longer with this. No Thai friends to speak of.

..a couple of points..

(1) there will be a 'samut motor cy' (transliterated) that will be in her possession being the owner.

(2) I would go now to the Tourist Police and complain you are being extorted,

(3) if they threaten to lock you up, go ahead and let them and front the court and explain your story to the magistrate (I think you will fnd there will be compromise reached before you even get there).

(4) once you have settled on a fair amount the motor cy becomes your property (as you have just bought it) so the 'samut motor cy' book must be handed to you.

These few points may help you through this mess. (Stand your ground).

Good luck. ROD.

Edited October 11, 2011 by rodcourt49

[wana]

Legal resident though I don't think I'll be here much longer with this. No Thai friends to speak of.

..a couple of points..

(1) there will be a 'samut motor cy' (transliterated) that will be in her possession being the owner.

(2) I would go now to the Tourist Police and complain you are being extorted,

(3) if they threaten to lock you up, go ahead and let them and front the court and explain your story to the magistrate (I think you will fnd there will be compromise reached before you even get there).

(4) once you have settled on a fair amount the motor cy becomes your property (as you have just bought it) so the 'samut motor cy' book must be handed to you.

These few points may help you through this mess. (Stand your ground).

Good luck. ROD.

its all right telling someone to stand up for themselves ,but when the police are saying either pay or go jail it can really f_uck ur day up

if he doesnt pay ,they will lock him up,thais are not shy about throwing anybody in jail and there isnt much human rights in thailand once you get there

i and 2 other farangs nearly got locked up over a padded bill in a restaurant and we stood our ground until the cop radio'd for backip and the monkey van arrived

even locked in the police station for a few days with a bunch of crazy yabba smokers for your new cell mates and you will pay anyway .............

i would just pay and get it over with (400 euro is less than a weeks wages in europe )

the thai justice system will break you before you break it

[Drag0nboy]

I just read your post and also the replies to them - I have a bike rental business here in Phuket and I have a contract between the renter and myself, so thought I would try to offer some advice from the business persons point of view.

Part of the standard rental contract is the cost of replacing the bike if (and its a big if) it gets stolen - I have been doing this for 5 years and never had a bike stolen. (Samui is an island - the bike cant just get off that easily, so it will be around somewhere) On the rental contract it states that you have to replace the bike - I base it on how much it costs me to buy it initially, plus the maintenance costs over time, plus loss of business/ time to sort everything out. BUT if it is not a new bike then I dont charge to get a new bike replacement - ie it cost 25,000 THB then you pay 25,000 THB but bear in mind that you have to be able to find a similar replacement which can be difficult and time consuming.

An average cost for a 3-4 year old click (depending on quality of bodywork/ engine/ mileage etc is so varied - I have bought them from between 15 - 35,000 THB it all depends on the seller and how much they need plus the bike conditions. I would say based on your description probably about 25,000 THB is more applicable if it is a 4 year old bike.

HOWEVER you did sign a contract and agree to the replacement figure stated there - if you had any serious doubts about it, you should have brought it up then.

Dont forget thought once you pay the owner - make sure you get the green book and the transfer documents signed from her, then file a police report for the stolen bike and offer them a small reward and they will 'find' it for you. Then you own it and can sell it on to recoup your money.

[katabeachbum]

I assume OP has entered a rentalagreement, and they usually state how much to pay when bike lost/stolen/wrecked. This agreement is legally binding, and non payment is jail until paid.

What you can demand for your 40k baht, is the reg book with signed docs to be transfered to you, if bike shows up again

[wana]

then file a police report for the stolen bike and offer them a small reward and they will 'find' it for you.

i love the way the police can "find" lost things in thailand ,it works in bangkok,pattaya ,even on the islands they can be so resourceful