Another Tuk Tuk Driver Assault

[NamKangMan]

You cant compare sextourists and divers(who just leave on dive trip almost everyday) with the average chineese/japanese/malaysian/australian tourist.

Most of these will never come back and once the money from those people dry up, phuket will hurt really bad. The only reason this place isnt completely dead is because itsi a drop off point for phiphi/sex/krabi

Lot of Aussies do repeat visits

Bali is firmly back on the tourist map for Aussies again, after the bombings. More and more Aussies are going to Bali and returning to Bali. In the future, you may see it the prefered destination for the Australian market, if it is not already.

Phuket is not changing with the times to meet their competition. The complaints by tourist are the same complaints over and over that have gone unheard for years now. If Phuket will not change, the tourist will change. Many will not return here and will advise their friends not to come here.

The whole way the tourism industry operates on Phuket needs an overhaul, which, many may laugh at, but I can only see the Thai Army being able to implement.

In my opinion, Bali is Phuket's number one foreign competitor and Vietnam is Thailand's number one competitor. I would be happy to here anyone's differing opinion on this one.

I basically agree with you. Vietnam is going gangbusters. But aussie visitor numbers to Thailand are increasing, not decreasing, albeit at a slower rate than Vietnam and Bali.

The aussie dollar is high and now there are very cheap direct flights to phuket.

2009 Vietnam had approx 120 000 aussie visitors (this is from memory of figures i saw)

2010 Vietnam had 278 000 aussie visitors

2010 Bali had 343 000 aussie visitors

2011 projected figures were 434 000 aussie visitors

2009 Thailand had 698 000

2010 Thailand had 645 000 aussie visitors

2010 of these 420 000 went to phuket

http://www.mybaligui...viewnews&id=944

http://en.wikipedia....rism_in_Vietnam

http://en.wikipedia....ism_in_Thailand

In November 2011 Vietnam had a 42.9% increase in foreign tourist compared to November 2010.

If you are in business here, and had a quiet November, that's where all your high season tourist went. I would suggest that's the Westerners who actually spend money, not the Chinese, Russians, Indians and Arabs.

Now, if they enjoyed themselves, and found their holiday to be affordable, and had simple cultural exchanges and laughs with the local Vietnamese, there is no way they will come back to Phuket in the future.

International visitors to Vietnam in November and 11 months of 2011

International visitors to Vietnam in November estimated 611,864 arrivals, increasing by 42.9% over the same period last year. Total international arrivals in 11 months reached 5,420,624 representing a 17.8% growth over the same period of 2010.

This, and other Vietnam tourism statistics can be viewed at the below link.

http://www.vietnamto...i=1&chucnang=07

These statisitcs, as well as the Bali statistics, should be forcing change on the island so Phuket can compete, but we still have the same tourism related issues here, year after year. Nothing is changing here, so, the tourist are changing their holiday destinations. If these statisitcs keep going in the direction that they are, and at such great percentiles and at such a rapid speed, Phuket will be suffering a lot earlier than most of us had originally thought.

As I have said, over and over, the way the Thai's are administering the tourism industry here is simply not sustainable and is destined to fail.

Edited January 5, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Jingthing]

Well it failed with me. The reason was the issues of getting around the island independently (without private transport). I visited three times and that was enough. I must admit the aggressive kathoey thieves on motos didn't help, making Pattaya look innocent. I suppose I should stop posting on this forum as this is the closest I'll get to Phuket unless I hear a miracle has happened.

[madmitch]

Actually few divers come back to Phuket as a purely diving holiday, as there are far better destinations for good diving.

Phuket is no longer a diving 'dream'.

(Edit - incidentally, most divers don't eat lunch and dinner on the Island. They eat lunch on the boat as it is necessary to travel to the diving destinations).

However, it still has incredible scenery and a night-life that many enjoy.

I've no idea as to the 'returning' tourists, but have seen one hell of a lot more tourists around Rawai/Nai Harn recently.

Getting back on topic - the best advice anyone can give a tourist is to agree the price before getting in the tuk-tuk.

Agree with your advice, but many divers return to Phuket as a pure diving holiday. Many of my guests are returning guests, quite a few of them year after year. Do agree with you though that the numbers are down, I feel ever since the tsunami.

Regarding meals on land, most divers will eat breakfast and diner here, lunch on board, so that is as KBB stated 2 meals.

Fair enough, but I do question why anyone would return to Phuket as a pure diving holiday?? I can't believe that its due to the diving and, let's face it, Phuket is not that cheap anymore. Diving is downright expensive!

Edit - most divers leave from Chalong at an early hour and do not have time for breakfast at their residence. Which is why breakfast is available on the boat taking them to their destination.

Interesting chage from divers do not come back to Phuket to divers should not coome back to Phuket. And, yes, many return purely for the diving. It may seem expensive but it's not in comparison to many places and many divers have great experiences here and that is why they return.

Yes, return visitors may be down a little but there are still many, many repeat visitors here.

Phuket may not be for everyone, and I know many people who have come here once and said never again (including the victims of the assault that started this topic) but, as has been said many times before, despite the scams, expense, increasing crime and lack of decent transport. most tourists have a great time on their holiday in Phuket.

[katabeachbum]

Well it failed with me. The reason was the issues of getting around the island independently (without private transport). I visited three times and that was enough. I must admit the aggressive kathoey thieves on motos didn't help, making Pattaya look innocent. I suppose I should stop posting on this forum as this is the closest I'll get to Phuket unless I hear a miracle has happened.

good idea, just like I do not post in the Pattaya Forum, simply do not like the place any more, but assume those living there and posting there like it

lived here nine years, and failed to have any contact with "agresseve kathoyes thieves", any place any time of the night

[Jingthing]

Well it failed with me. The reason was the issues of getting around the island independently (without private transport). I visited three times and that was enough. I must admit the aggressive kathoey thieves on motos didn't help, making Pattaya look innocent. I suppose I should stop posting on this forum as this is the closest I'll get to Phuket unless I hear a miracle has happened.

good idea, just like I do not post in the Pattaya Forum, simply do not like the place any more, but assume those living there and posting there like it

lived here nine years, and failed to have any contact with "agresseve kathoyes thieves", any place any time of the night

How could a resident know what tourists experience? Tourists are VERY WELCOME on the Pattaya forum.

[hehehoho]

I was sitting on Kata Beach yesterday with a friend of mine who has been coming to Kata since 1990. We started talking with a Swedish guy who had been coming there since the 90's too. We all concluded there aren't as many German and Swedish and other Europeans, but there is a hugh influx of Russians this year. I don't think tourist numbers are down, but the demographics have changed. I also seem to see more motorbikes this year than ever at the beaches, so I'm not sure if people are using tuk tuks less, but they are renting motorbikes more.

exactly

Thais are emptied the fins and swedes and in a few years the russian will stop coming here. One day every nationality will be fed up and will go to a country that is actually still cheap and not full of violence. Its coming to a point where its cheaper for most nationalities to just fly to cuba and get a full week at 4 star hotels all included for 250$ What do you get for 250$ here? 1 night at a similar hotel and 1 400m ride of a tuktuk? Also fun to visit a country where most people serving you are more educated than you and can converse outside of the usual 'lady boomboom' and 'where u go where u from' dialect that the tourism workers have

All true.

What was a truly great place has been totally ruined by the Thais, due to excessive Thainess - Corruption, Greed, Selfishness and violent Immorality.

I always recommend people to take a wide berth of the place, and believe that they're stay in Thailand will certainly be better for it.

Edited January 5, 2012 by hehehoho

[hehehoho]

I make sure to tell all tourists I get chatting with here to stay away from Phuket.

Do you consider this accrate advice?

Accurate?

Yes.

How many years in Phuket would you base such advice on?

Three.

[glassdude007]

kenny, there is no bus from Patong to Kata Karon Chalong, not even next morning. It was one more than a decade ago, but the tuk tuk drivers wasted the driver. The lisence for this bus has been available ever since

The tuk tuks are now so well organised, any price has to be approved by the others on radio

My son here on holiday wanted to bring this old beachbum to Patong new years eve, and while I often enjoy a night out, there was no way I would go this night as I want to avoid drunk driving and tuk tuks prices would not be the usual 400 baht home to Kata.

We rather had one hell of a pool party at home, and will do bangla another night

Same for me I avoided going out and had a quiet drink at home, nice!! hence why I said you need to plan ahead and make the arrangements to get home so as to avoid the obvious problems

WOW What a boring way to spend New Years Eve.....

Quiet drink at home is'nt that what you do every other night of the year...?????

BOORING but HAPPY NEW YEAR TOO YOU.....

unfortunaley I had too work New Years Eve but I would have much prefered too spend it with some unknown sweet Thai lady

enjoying the company of her on my lap with all her friends on my arm as well....

as for tuk tuk rip offs...NEVER USE THEM...

if i travel to Patong from Rawai..I get a room at Summer Breeze 800bht, in the early afternoon have a nice dinner in Patong and then enjoy all the fun in Patong all night sleep till check out and take 500 bht taxi or my motorbike too Rawai next day....

NO tuk tuk rip offs...

[stevenl]

as for tuk tuk rip offs...NEVER USE THEM...

if i travel to Patong from Rawai..I get a room at Summer Breeze 800bht, in the early afternoon have a nice dinner in Patong and then enjoy all the fun in Patong all night sleep till check out and take 500 bht taxi or my motorbike too Rawai next day....

NO tuk tuk rip offs...

Tuktuks and taxi's are the same organisations.

[katabeachbum]

Well it failed with me. The reason was the issues of getting around the island independently (without private transport). I visited three times and that was enough. I must admit the aggressive kathoey thieves on motos didn't help, making Pattaya look innocent. I suppose I should stop posting on this forum as this is the closest I'll get to Phuket unless I hear a miracle has happened.

good idea, just like I do not post in the Pattaya Forum, simply do not like the place any more, but assume those living there and posting there like it

lived here nine years, and failed to have any contact with "agresseve kathoyes thieves", any place any time of the night

How could a resident know what tourists experience? Tourists are VERY WELCOME on the Pattaya forum.

this beachbum knows what tourists experince in Phuket by communicating with tourists every day. Customers and non customers

and everyone is welcome in the Pattaya Forum

[F1fanatic]

All true.

What was a truly great place has been totally ruined by the Thais, due to excessive Thainess - Corruption, Greed, Selfishness and violent Immorality.

I always recommend people to take a wide berth of the place, and believe that they're stay in Thailand will certainly be better for it.

So which areas do you recommend to people?

[hehehoho]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

[katabeachbum]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

[F1fanatic]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

I don't - thinking that Phuket is still good as long as tourists are warned about some things.

Still waiting to hear about the wonderful location that meets all your criteria and is therefore recommended.

[hehehoho]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

That would depend on a number of different factors.

[F1fanatic]

I'm experiencing 'deja vu'....

[KarenBravo]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

That would depend on a number of different factors.

So you keep saying.........ad nauseum.

Oh, I'm sorry.......do you have a stutter?

[hehehoho]

I thought it was pretty simple to understand to be honest. Didn't realise people would have such difficulty with it. Perhaps it will even need to be said again for the simpler folk.

Edited January 7, 2012 by hehehoho

[goober]

I thought it was pretty simple to understand to be honest. Didn't realise people would have such difficulty with it. Perhaps it will even need to be said again for the simpler folk.

Insulting peoples intelligence because you don't have the answers only makes you look stupid.

Please stop trolling for a argument if you can't back up your statements.

[hehehoho]

Which part of:

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Are you having trouble with?

I'm afraid people on here seem quite blinkered and defensive, when there's really no need to be. Open your eyes and realise that Phuket is second only to Pattaya as being the Tourist Sewer of Thailand. And it's a really close call, possibly even un-call-able..

Edited January 7, 2012 by hehehoho

[steelepulse]

Which part of:

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Are you having trouble with?

Please enlighten us simple folks as to the factors you consider to be of utmost priority.

[KarenBravo]

Lets make this easy.

Why don't you give a list of places you would recommend on different factors of your own choice?

Maybe that will get you out of parrot mode?

[hehehoho]

Which part of:

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Are you having trouble with?

Please enlighten us simple folks as to the factors you consider to be of utmost priority.

The tourist's wonts and needs are a good start.

Lets make this easy.

Why don't you give a list of places you would recommend on different factors of your own choice?

Maybe that will get you out of parrot mode?

What am I, a public tour guide? On a Saturday night.

Please, it's not my job to un-blinker people, who will likely steadfastly refuse to be unblinkered. Sorry ye folks find it so offensive, but if ye can't wake up and smell the turds, it's not my job to provide rose scented smelling salts.

[KarenBravo]

What am I, a public tour guide? On a Saturday night.

OK..........use the criteria that KBB used.

You mouth off that you tell everyone not to go to Phuket (sounds like a tour-guide to me.....giving recommendations), then you say it depends on "different factors", yet you won't give any, or, respond to some that have been given to you.

All mouth, no trousers (weak as p1ss).

Edited January 7, 2012 by KarenBravo

[waza]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

I would recomend Penang, the Gold Coast in Aus, all the way up to Cairnes. The Canary Islands, Vietnam, Maldives, Goa and many many more

[hehehoho]

I would recomend Penang, the Gold Coast in Aus, all the way up to Cairnes. The Canary Islands, Vietnam, Maldives, Goa and many many more

No need to even leave Thailand Waza.

[waza]

I would recomend Penang, the Gold Coast in Aus, all the way up to Cairnes. The Canary Islands, Vietnam, Maldives, Goa and many many more

No need to even leave Thailand Waza.

Its very hard to find a clean beach in Thailand, I think Koh Samed is the closest I have found.

[KarenBravo]

Penang? Don't make me laugh. OK for a day to see the Sino-Portuguese architecture, otherwise very boring.

Canary Islands? Rubbish.....has even more low quality tourists than Phuket.

Goa? Same as above but with drugs openly used.

Vietnam and Maldives I can agree with.

East Oz can't comment, but, it would have to be expensive compared to Phuket.

[hehehoho]

East Oz can't comment, but, it would have to be expensive compared to Phuket.

How much is a 400m taxi ride, and hospital fees for a broken skull?

[NamKangMan]

That would depend on a number of different factors.

Priority

Low crime stats, low rate of violence and murdered farang

Honest tuk tuk/taxi service

tropical palmtree beaches with clear water

a variety of local and international restaurants

close high quality hospitals

english speaking locals to be found

top notch night time entertainment

Now, which areas do you recomend over Phuket?

A thread came up like this a while ago and the same question was asked of me. The member asking me to name an alternative to Phuket had quite a few "factors" that needed to be met. For example, he required an International School. I do not have young children, so, an International School is of no concern to me, but was important to him.

When hehehehe says "It would depend on different factors" - if he is talking about the individual's criteria that has to be met, then I agree. I stated to the other member that Bali met all of his criteria, so, an alternative did exist for him and that he did have another option.

A lot of people come to Phuket for a 2 week holiday and love the place. They think living here (as an expat everyday) is going to be like everyday in those 2 week holidays they had here. They really do think Phuket is the be all and end all. How wrong can they be? This island has many, many problems that, as expats, we have all become used to or have organised

"a work around."

Many members post on TV that one of the island's many problems, is not a problem for them anymore, because of their "work around" so, therefore, the problem does not exist on the island anymore. That is wrong, the problem still exists for thousands of other people. Many of these "work arounds" create other problems. For example, riding a bike is too dangerous on Phuket, so, everyone gets a car - now, there's nowhere to park cars. Now, if we had proper, affordable, public transport, it would not be as dangerous to ride a bike, then no one would need a car, then the car parking wouldn't be a problem, but it all started with the Thai authorities not creating a proper, affordable, public transport system.

The problem for Phuket is, for so long, they have been the only place that matches the criteria in your post. However, their competition is now catering for what tourist and expats want/need, and in the not so distant future, will offer EVERYTHING Phuket offers, without most of the negatives that Phuket has. This is something the authorities in Phuket either don't seem to care about, or realise the island has gone too far down a certain path and it can not be changed. As stated previously, I think it's the latter, and only the army can implement any change here now and there will have to be much blood shed before the Army will be sent in.

The Vietnam War kicked off tourism in Thailand. So, many of the first expats were War Veterans or their friends and/or family, as they were the ones first told about Thailand - mainly Pattaya back in those days, and it spread from there. After the war, Vietnam shut it's boarders, so there was no tourism there and the country was in a rebuilding mode. So, Thailand benefited greatly after war by way of tourism. That generation of expat is aging, and many are passing away, year by year. Phuket needs to attract the next generation of expat, and this is where Phuket is struggling. The problems we have here now, we have had for years, and those problems have not stayed at the same level, they have grown worse. For example, crime and violence on the island is more prevalent.

Phuket's competion do not have tuk tuk problems and a massive drug culture amongst the locals. There is no random drug testing of hotel staff etc etc. In general, there is no monthly collection of "tea money." The list goes on and on of the negatives that DO NOT exist in neighbouring countries who are now in direct competition with Phuket. Not to mention, Phuket has the highest cost of living in South East Asia, apart from Singapore.

I really struggle to keep my mouth shut when I hear an expat on Phuket say, "I love it here. It's great." I ask, "Where else have you been in South East Asia?" Many times, the answer is, "Nowhere else." How would they know Phuket is so great without anywhere else to compare it to???? A lot of human psycology comes into play. A guy in Phuket hooks up with a local girl, so now he's in his comfort zone and there is no way she was ever going to leave Thailand, because she likes to be "big boss" due to speaking the language, knowing the culture etc. A lot of guys say they love Phuket because they know the missus will never move with them. I know guys who have girls who will not even accompany them on visa runs for a few days. Tell these women "we are moving to Vietnam tee rak" and watch how nasty things get, so, for her sake, many guys feel tied to Phuket/Thailand. Funny thing is, I remember when these girls used to say, "Up to you farang." Now they say, "Up to me. Up to me."

Katabeachbum, we all have different criteria to meet, it's hard to pick a place that meets them all, for everybody, but the competition are building what the tourist and expats want and need, at a fast rate, so, in the near future, there will be many places that will offer all the positives that Phuket has, without all the negatives. An example is visa laws. Malaysia - 90 day stamp on arrival. Vietnam - you organise a 3 month visa on arrival which can be extended for 3 times, within the country, so basically, you live there for one year on one visa.

Places to watch will be Da Nang and Nha Trang in Vietnam. Penang does offer most of what you mention. Of course there is Bali, which has everything.

There are new, emerging places, like Myanmar (Burma) which has many, many beautiful islands. When "change" has been fully implementent in the country, it will have a lot of potential. The expat bar owner in Phuket, who is getting sqeezed from all sides and has become an "expat slave" to the wealthy Thai's for his rent and tea money every month, can get in on the ground floor over there, whilst it's still cheap, and set up a large Aussie, English or Irish theme bar and just sit back and watch their investment grow, while trade in Phuket shrinks. This opportunity still exist in Vietnam, but the window period in Vietnam is closing, fast, because a lot of the "smart money" has already gone there.

I love Langkawi. It's a small tropical island in Malaysia - well serviced by AirAsia and boats. It's been made a tax free island to promote tourism. Malaysia also has some of the best land ownership laws for foreigners. It lacks the raging night life of Phuket and Vietnam but what a great little island to see out your twilight years with your missus - if she'll go.

I could name many more places, but I can only encourage expats to go and look for themselves. If you had the motivation to leave your country and move to Phuket, go a few extra yards to have a look "next door." You might find that Phuket is not all it's cracked up to be and then you may have an understanding why members like me are critcal of Phuket.

I am not Phuket bashing. I chose to live here, for now, but as I have said before, I can see the day coming when Phuket will be a shadow of it's former self and the Thais would have raped and pillaged it while the going was good and will leave it like a Costa del Sol. Until recently, I thought that day was in the distant future, but on a recent tour around, I can tell you, that day is coming a lot faster than we all originally thought. When that day comes, I will not chose to live here and I will move, but that day is coming.

What the Thai's are doing now is akin to slash and burn agriculture and it's just not sustainable tourism. As an expat reading this, you are probably saying, "What do I care about tourism? I live here. I'm an expat." I would say to you, as an expat, do you really want to live in a place where every second guest house, restaurant and bar is "boarded up" and left derelict, for years, with a for sale sign out the front? Look at the bars under the new boxing stadium. Only a few at the front are in operation and they are for sale, and they have built a masive complex on Bangla Road. Who's going to buy in there, especially up the back of the complex? Many of the bars in in the Soi's are for sale.

Now, NEVER forget the Thai business model - profits are down, so put prices up. An example is rent. Rent goes up, so now the owner has to put the price of his beer, food and/or accommodation up for the customers, so now Phuket is becoming more expensive and less competetive for the tourist dollar and expats on pensions discover their money isn't going so far these days. The loss of tourism DOES have an effect on expats and so we should be concerned. It's tourism that keeps us expats with the lifestyle we are acustom to here, whether that be hitting the girly bars or being able to buy that bottle of wine we like.

Anyway, if some of my post has hit a nerve with any member, I do not mean to offend. I would courage every member to have a "Plan B" as an alternative to Phuket and you should be doing recognizance on your Plan B now. For many in business here, all it would take is another tsunami (highly unlikely) or an attack similar to Bali, and many businesses would close overnight. The tsunami gave the authorities the opportunity to give Phuket a fresh start, but not long after, Phuket just slipped into it's old ways.

There is also uncertainty for when a very revered Thai individual passes away and also for when Thaksin comes back to Thailand (highly likely) Neighbouring countries do not have any of these issues in their near future.

Also, for those in business, remember, all it takes is a "travel warning" to be placed on Thailand, and although there is no immediate danger, a tourist can not gain travel insurance - so, tourism dries up, instantly. These tourist, locked out of Thailand, with go "next door" and if it's cheap, and they enjoyed themselves, they will return there, and maybe never ever visit Phuket, or maybe never return to Phuket because they have stumbled upon a place they like more. The volitility of Thailand, and it's Government, is a concern.

Phuket practically used to have all of "the tourism pie" in South East Asia, but many other places are now cutting huge slices out of that pie. You will see Phuket left with a smaller and smaller peice of the pie, year after year, because nothing is changing for the benefit of tourist and expats here. You would think to have been in such a strong position in the market it would have been easy to hold onto market share, but neglect, greed and corruption has allowed their opposition to get a foot in the door and I only see a shrinking market share for Phuket in the future.

Unfortunately for Phuket, many of it's positives are being taken over by it's negatives, and whilst other places, currently, may not have all the positives of Phuket - they have far less of the negatives of Phuket, thus giving them the ability to provide a nicer lifestyle, that is also more affordable, and is only going to get better as they put more and more investment into their infastructure, as more and more people visit and live there.

Gee, this post has taken me back to my university essay writing days.

Edited January 8, 2012 by NamKangMan