More MRT Changes

[andyfletch]

In todays Bangkok Post:

"Three more city train routes get PM's nod

Budget for all 10 lines still fixed at B500bn

Preeyanat Phanayanggoor

Three more train routes will be added to the Bangkok Mass Transit extension plan - Lat Phrao to Samrong, Pak Kret to Suwinthawong and Bang Kapi to Suwinthawong.

Transport Minister Pongsak Ratapong-paisal said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra approved the additional routes yesterday.

This brings to 10 the number of routes approved as part of the city's new transportation network.

The cabinet had already approved seven routes in the transport infrastructure master plan, including the Purple Line (Bang Yai to Rat Burana) and the Orange Line (Bang Kapi to Bang Bumru).

The three new routes are the Yellow Line from Lat Phrao to Samrong, to pass through Lat Phrao and Sri Nakharin roads; the Pink Line from Pak Kret to Suwinthawong, to pass though Ram Intra and Chaeng Wattana roads, and the Bang Kapi-Suwinthawong route to support transportation around a new city to be developed around Suvarnabhumi airport.

All new routes will be elevated, except the underground Lat Phrao-Happy Land line. The 10 extension routes will add 361 kilometres to the existing 43km of skytrain and subway lines.

Mr Pongsak said international bids will be called for the construction of all 10 routes. Ambassadors from interested countries have already been invited to attend a briefing on Dec 15.

Changes would still be possible because the government would allow the bid winner to adjust the routes but only after consulting the government, he added.

The total mass transit budget remains unchanged at 500 billion baht.

Government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said bidders from countries such as France, Russia, China and Japan, will be invited to take part due to their expertise.

The bid winner will construct all ten routes but management of the system will be in the hands of the government.

Meanwhile, the government also plans to get rid of around 4,000 ordinary buses belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority and replace them with air-conditioned ones at an estimated cost of 20 billion baht.

Mr Surapong said bus fares will remain unchanged. The six-baht ordinary bus fare will still apply for new air-conditioned buses, to be officially referred to as "ordinary air-conditioned buses".

Current air-conditioned buses will retain the distance-based fares of 10-22 baht. They will be called "special air-conditioned buses", having more seats and being more comfortable.

He said all city buses would be air-conditioned by next year"

Back to square one again !!!!!

[Jai Dee]

GOVERNMENT WILL DESIGNATE JUST ONE FOREIGN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT 10 ELECTRIC TRAIN LINES

The government will expand construction of the electric train network to 10 lines. The government will designate only one company to take charge in all investments whereas the government would act as the administrator.

Transport Minister Phongsak Raktaphongphaisarn (พงษ์ศักดิ์ รักตพงษ์ไพศาล) said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has proposed to open tendering for electric train construction in 10 lines, from the Transport Ministry's proposal for 4 lines. Under the scheme, the interested company from abroad would have to carry out all investments under a budget of 550 billion baht. Prime Minister Thaksin will call each country's ambassador in to provide details on December 15th.

Prime Minister's Office Spokesperson Suraphong Suebwonglee (สุรพงษ์ สืบวงศ์ลี) said the government will have one single company carry out the construction of all 10 lines of electric train. The private sectors from each interested country must bring forth details to present to the Thai government by early next year. Consideration will be made in April regarding which company to grant the works to.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 December 2005

[george]

Rail mass transit system to cover most metropolitan and surrounding areas

BANGKOK: -- The government plans to establish an integrated rail mass transit system covering most Bangkok and its surrounding areas over the coming years to facilitate communications of urban people and ease traffic congestions in the areas.

Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal told journalists after meeting with Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and executives of concerned units under the Ministry of Transport here on Wednesday that the prime minister suggested the comprehensive plan, saying the government is willing to invest up to Bt550 billion, its maximum target, to achieve the infrastructure development goal.

Under the plan, 10 electric-train routes--with links between subway and skytrain systems--will be established altogether.

Three new extended routes would be added to the originally planned seven routes, said Mr. Pongsak.

The previously planned seven routes with some adjustments of blueprints include the 43-kilometre purple route from Bang Yai in Nonthaburi Province passing through Bang Sue to Ratchaburana in the city's Thonburi side, the 27-kilometre blue route from Hua Lampong passing through Bang Sue and Bang Kae to Ta Pra in Thonburi, the 24-kilometre orange route from Bang Kapi to Bang Bamru in Thonburi, the 66.8 kilometre red route from Rangsit in Pathum Thani Province passing through Bang Sue and Hua Lampong to Mahachai in Samut Sakhon Province, the 71.41 kilometre light red route from Airport Link passing through Bang Sue, Makkasan to Taling Chan, the 26.5 kilometre light green route from Prannok in Thonburi to Samut Prakan Province and the 18.7 kilometre green route from Saphan Mai in Don Muang area to Bang Wa in Thonburi.

The three new extended routes will cover Bang Kapi, Sri Nagarindra, Samrong, Kasetsart University, Kae lai, Bang Khen, Raminthra, Nawamin, Changwatana, Min Buri and Suwinthawong areas.

Authorities concerned are working out details of the new routes to be submitted to the prime minister for further consideration within seven days, according to the transport minister.

Rail development firms from leading countries are now welcome to invest in the transport mega-projects with transparent bidding for the first four routes to be opened within two weeks, said the minister.

--TNA 2005-12-01

[Jai Dee]

TRANSPORT MINISTER DISCUSSESS WITH CONCERNED AUTHORITIES AFTER PM THAKSIN HAS ORDERED THE ADDITIONAL CONSTRUCTION OF BTS ROUTES

At the Ministry of Transport today, Transport Minister PONGSAK RAKTAPONGPAISAL (พงษ์ศักดิ์ รักตพงศ์ไพศาล) called a meeting with the agencies who are related to the railway network construction such as the State Railway of Thailand, the Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand, and the Office of Transport, Traffic Policy and Planning. Members in the meeting discussed the bid for the 10 electric train routes with the budget of 550 billion baht, as suggested by Prime Minister THAKSIN SHINAWATRA.

They will cover PAK KRED (ปากเกร็ด) - SUWINTHAWONG (สุวินทวงศ์), MIN BURI (มีนบุรี) - BAANG KAPI (บางกะปิ), and LAD PRAO (ลาดพร้าว) - SAMRONG (สำโรง) routes. Mr. PONGSAK said that the premier has assigned his ministry to conclude the conditions and the auction methods in order to start the bid on December 15th.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 December 2005

[andyfletch]

Reading all the above I can only deduce one thing:

Nobody has a f@#king clue what they are talking about!

10 lines, totalling 350+ km to be built by one company?? Get real, there is not a single rail infrastructure company worldwide who can do that. In addition the logistics and purchasing required for the systems works would be immense. Lead times alone on equipment supply would preclude it.

If the government is not careful the big international rail suppliers will back off and look for other markets, leaving only one or two smaller players ot try and do the job.

You only need to look at the mess the Taiwan High Speed Rail project is in to see that this is not going to work.

Time to go and buy a car methinks!!!!!!

[Jai Dee]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right?

[Crossy]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

Hopefully it's 550 BILLION Baht. Otherwise there may be a budget overrun

[andyfletch]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully it's 550 BILLION Baht. Otherwise there may be a budget overrun

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah................thats the tea money

[Crossy]

Meanwhile, the government also plans to get rid of around 4,000 ordinary buses belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority and replace them with air-conditioned ones at an estimated cost of 20 billion baht.

He said all city buses would be air-conditioned by next year"

So, where can we get 4000 right hand drive buses in 4 weeks??

Edited December 1, 2005 by Crossy

[andyfletch]

Its a modification job - they are going to air-condition the existing buses

[Crossy]

Its a modification job - they are going to air-condition the existing buses

I hope they didn't watch Mythbusters. Demonstated that it is more fuel-efficient to run with the windows open than with the aircon on

[andyfletch]

Its a modification job - they are going to air-condition the existing buses

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope they didn't watch Mythbusters. Demonstated that it is more fuel-efficient to run with the windows open than with the aircon on

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats ok, at the same time as they add the air-con, they will convert them to gasohol !!! :D

[george]

Rail mass transit system to cover most metropolitan and surrounding areas

BANGKOK: -- The government plans to establish an integrated rail mass transit system covering most Bangkok and its surrounding areas over the coming years to facilitate communications of urban people and ease traffic congestions in the areas.

Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal told journalists after meeting with Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and executives of concerned units under the Ministry of Transport here on Wednesday that the prime minister suggested the comprehensive plan, saying the government is willing to invest up to Bt550 billion, its maximum target, to achieve the infrastructure development goal.

Under the plan, 10 electric-train routes--with links between subway and skytrain systems--will be established altogether.

Three new extended routes would be added to the originally planned seven routes, said Mr. Pongsak.

The previously planned seven routes with some adjustments of blueprints include the 43-kilometre purple route from Bang Yai in Nonthaburi Province passing through Bang Sue to Ratchaburana in the city's Thonburi side, the 27-kilometre blue route from Hua Lampong passing through Bang Sue and Bang Kae to Ta Pra in Thonburi, the 24-kilometre orange route from Bang Kapi to Bang Bamru in Thonburi, the 66.8 kilometre red route from Rangsit in Pathum Thani Province passing through Bang Sue and Hua Lampong to Mahachai in Samut Sakhon Province, the 71.41 kilometre light red route from Airport Link passing through Bang Sue, Makkasan to Taling Chan, the 26.5 kilometre light green route from Prannok in Thonburi to Samut Prakan Province and the 18.7 kilometre green route from Saphan Mai in Don Muang area to Bang Wa in Thonburi.

The three new extended routes will cover Bang Kapi, Sri Nagarindra, Samrong, Kasetsart University, Kae lai, Bang Khen, Raminthra, Nawamin, Changwatana, Min Buri and Suwinthawong areas.

Authorities concerned are working out details of the new routes to be submitted to the prime minister for further consideration within seven days, according to the transport minister.

Rail development firms from leading countries are now welcome to invest in the transport mega-projects with transparent bidding for the first four routes to be opened within two weeks, said the minister.

--TNA 2005-12-01

[Casey Jones]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the trains - it's all very well calculating for each KM (which isn't accurate anyway), but you also need hundreds of trains - wack on another few hundred billion and you're there !!!

[Crossy]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

What about the trains - it's all very well calculating for each KM (which isn't accurate anyway), but you also need hundreds of trains - wack on another few hundred billion and you're there !!!

Nah, that's why it's elevated, they can use the ratty old DMUs from the Mae Khlong line

Converted to run on NGV so the engines last about 10 minutes.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Crossy

[andyfletch]

Like these you mean?

[Casey Jones]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the trains - it's all very well calculating for each KM (which isn't accurate anyway), but you also need hundreds of trains - wack on another few hundred billion and you're there !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, that's why it's elevated, they can use the ratty old DMUs from the Mae Khlong line

Converted to run on NGV so the engines last about 10 minutes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not make them all monorails - it's only one rail so must be cheaper - right ??

555555555555555555555555555555555 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crossy]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

What about the trains - it's all very well calculating for each KM (which isn't accurate anyway), but you also need hundreds of trains - wack on another few hundred billion and you're there !!!

Nah, that's why it's elevated, they can use the ratty old DMUs from the Mae Khlong line

Converted to run on NGV so the engines last about 10 minutes.

Why not make them all monorails - it's only one rail so must be cheaper - right ??

555555555555555555555555555555555 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seattle has a couple of only slightly dented monorail trains, going cheap.!

[Khutan]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or about 40,000 USD per Km, that sounds a little cheap actually.

[george]

It was 550 billion, not million ...

[Crossy]

It was 550 billion, not million ...

What's a few zeros between friends?

[george]

Mai bpen rai

[andyfletch]

361 km of additional elevated lines... a budget of 550 million baht... now, let's see... that works out at 1,523,545.71 baht per km.

Including links to existing infrastructure, additional stations, etc... etc... sound about right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or about 40,000 USD per Km, that sounds a little cheap actually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have a look here to get some idea of costs in the US. It works out about 650000000 USD per mile!!!! It will be cheaper here, BUT the figures do not stack up, even at 550 billion baht.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/artic...trail25-CP.html

Edited December 1, 2005 by andyfletch

[Plus]

They build 23km of Skytrain for 54 bil baht - that works out to more than 2 bil per km, and that was over the ground, and not counting inflation. It also took 7 years for 23 km.

So, 3 km a year, 2 bil per km, we get what?

361km planned divided by 3 - 120 years, and 361x2 - 720 billion.

They can of course be more efficient this time around but also large parts will be underground, which adds costs.

Anyone seen numbers on MRT to compare?

[TokyoT]

We all know the amount they spend will be in excess of that they should spend on the system – due to the necessary payments to the necessary people. But I am glad they appear to be moving towards expanding the system.

Plus while they may give the contact for all the lines to one company this does not mean all the lines will be built simultaneously.

[Crossy]

We all know the amount they spend will be in excess of that they should spend on the system – due to the necessary payments to the necessary people.  But I am glad they appear to be moving towards expanding the system.

Plus while they may give the contact for all the lines to one company this does not mean all the lines will be built simultaneously.

Although not indicated this time round, 5 years to completion has been mooted in the past. There will be a lot of simultaneous construction.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Crossy

[Jai Dee]

Plus while they may give the contact for all the lines to one company this does not mean all the lines will be built simultaneously.

Could you imagine the traffic chaos if they did?

[andyfletch]

We all know the amount they spend will be in excess of that they should spend on the system – due to the necessary payments to the necessary people.  But I am glad they appear to be moving towards expanding the system.

Plus while they may give the contact for all the lines to one company this does not mean all the lines will be built simultaneously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although not indicated this time round, 5 years to completion has been mooted in the past. There will be a lot of simultaneous construction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The piling companies will be rubbing their hands with glee There will not be enough piling machines to go around.

[TokyoT]

We all know the amount they spend will be in excess of that they should spend on the system – due to the necessary payments to the necessary people.  But I am glad they appear to be moving towards expanding the system.

Plus while they may give the contact for all the lines to one company this does not mean all the lines will be built simultaneously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although not indicated this time round, 5 years to completion has been mooted in the past. There will be a lot of simultaneous construction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The piling companies will be rubbing their hands with glee There will not be enough piling machines to go around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Piling? Concrete or cash?

[Jai Dee]

TRANSPORT MINISTER SAYS THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHO WINS THE AUCTION FOR BTS ROUTES ARE ALLOW TO ADJUST APPROPRIATE ROUTES

Transport Minister PONGSAK RAKTAPONGPAISAL (พงษ์ศักดิ์ รักตพงศ์ไพศาล) revealed the progress of allowing foreign firms to bid for the construction of 10 electric-train routes with the budget of 550 billion baht. He said the construction project will be opened for international bidding over the next couple of months, and the construction contract could be signed in June next year.

Concerning the proposal for the cost of construction, the government has given investors the opportunities to adjust the routes according to appropriate standards under the same amount of budget. The plans to be proposed should also include the method of investment and the operation of the system in consistent with the number of passengers. The Ministry of Transport will also set up a team to oversee the process to bring optimal benefit to the people.

The Minister said that the construction of the 10 routes will not be behind schedule since the construction can start immediately once the contract has been signed.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 December 2005