Remove the missionaries from the city and half of the Americans will be gone.

We should be so lucky.

David

 

hml367, on 14 Apr 2013 - 14:19, said:

Without more details that surely should get the experts excited.

MSPain

Not really there are a certain amount of new Thai citizenship allowed here not many but a few.

As we can plainly see he by his alias here he is having a hard time of letting go of his American citizenship.

It was a lot easier than that.

Came to visit Thailand for the first time about a year ago, wanted to see if I could find any relatives (mother was Thai).

Had my original Thai birth certificate in my mothers trunk in the roof. Didn't even realise it entitled me to Thai citizenship until a Thai gf pointed it out.

Employed a Thai lawyer to do all the running around, and a few months later went to collect my Thai ID card.

Still American as well, but only when I enter a country on my American passport.

 

Good one. What are you when you are in an airplane flying over the middle of the ocean.

Americans spend money and tip well so the chiang mai people like them and make them welcome. Am not American by the way but honest.

it's true, and a lot has to do with tipping, which like America, is rarely included in your tab. The mention of the missionaries is relevant. Maybe 1/3 of the Americans are...or their parents. Today's modern missionary from the US is more likely to be a refugee from a most brutal, long, recession here in the States, so like many of the farang teachers, they were not gainfully employed in the States, and there is no way in Hell, that they would be living in a nice single-family homes, in a white neighborhood, a house-keeper, and sending their kids to good schools while they were working 23 hours per week at Lowe's. Also, I am shocked by the lack of skills most have. I'm sure there are a few Doctors in there, and maybe an engineer or two, but most of them are trained at simply opening churches. Those organizations are way too top heavy (like the schools), and they may not be the best care-takers of the donations given to them to help people.

I am saddened by the denigration of Americans on this site. It really shocked me at first. I have always thought of Canadians, Australians, and W. Europeans, especially Brits, as friends and allies.

I never had a grudge against any of them, but I'm getting a few just from this site. The US bashing that's allowed here amazes me.

OTOH, I really don't notice much bashing of other nations by Americans, unless of course in defense of a first bashing.

It's isn't worldly or intelligent to lump everyone into a group, or even believe that each person approves of his country's policies and actions. Many escape to other countries to be expats specifically because they don't approve of what their governments are doing. I do hear some of that from the Brits and Aussies, especially in the financial area. Costs of living are the main complaint I hear from Brits and Aussies, but there are other complaints.

There are threads here dominated by Brits where they bash their own country, especially its economic policies and expat retirement policies, but that seems to go over well as long as it's only the Brits doing it.

I don't know why we can't all just get along. I'm not responsible for what my current government has done for the past 20 years. I didn't vote for any of them. I voted against them. I was always opposed to the wars in Korea, 'Nam, Iraq and Iran, and will remain so. I see no positive outcome, but only negative financial outcome coupled with a "none of our business" belief. But yet I get lumped into it.

I love America. It's my home country. It's what I know. I love it enough that I'd like to see it get its shit together, which it doesn't seem inclined to do. I hate the debts and deficits which are compounded by excessive military spending and the scattering of military all over the world as if we were the world's police. This massive military spending is filled with favoritism, and some projects go forward because some congressman see it benefiting his district where the money is spent, or some lobbyist for a contractor has someone's ear.

The US is in trouble and it saddens me. Europe is in trouble and it saddens me. It isn't so much in the news, but Australia is in trouble and it saddens me.

Why can't we weigh each other as individuals, not lump all of one nation into a category, and try to be friends?

I like Brits and Aussies and those who use the Euro. I worry for them and don't wish them any hard times. We fought side by side against Hitler and my dad, who was there from D-Day on, tells me that Brits are some of the bravest, toughest, and finest soldiers he ever saw. He would be shocked to hear himself denigrated by the same people he fought with as friends. He's 96 and very much alert and well. He thinks Brits are his friends.

It is just so sad to see people who say they are highly educated have such a narrow view of 330 million individuals, all of whom are different.

I am saddened by the denigration of Americans on this site. It really shocked me at first. I have always thought of Canadians, Australians, and W. Europeans, especially Brits, as friends and allies.

I never had a grudge against any of them, but I'm getting a few just from this site. The US bashing that's allowed here amazes me.

OTOH, I really don't notice much bashing of other nations by Americans, unless of course in defense of a first bashing.

It's isn't worldly or intelligent to lump everyone into a group, or even believe that each person approves of his country's policies and actions. Many escape to other countries to be expats specifically because they don't approve of what their governments are doing. I do hear some of that from the Brits and Aussies, especially in the financial area. Costs of living are the main complaint I hear from Brits and Aussies, but there are other complaints.

There are threads here dominated by Brits where they bash their own country, especially its economic policies and expat retirement policies, but that seems to go over well as long as it's only the Brits doing it.

I don't know why we can't all just get along. I'm not responsible for what my current government has done for the past 20 years. I didn't vote for any of them. I voted against them. I was always opposed to the wars in Korea, 'Nam, Iraq and Iran, and will remain so. I see no positive outcome, but only negative financial outcome coupled with a "none of our business" belief. But yet I get lumped into it.

I love America. It's my home country. It's what I know. I love it enough that I'd like to see it get its shit together, which it doesn't seem inclined to do. I hate the debts and deficits which are compounded by excessive military spending and the scattering of military all over the world as if we were the world's police. This massive military spending is filled with favoritism, and some projects go forward because some congressman see it benefiting his district where the money is spent, or some lobbyist for a contractor has someone's ear.

The US is in trouble and it saddens me. Europe is in trouble and it saddens me. It isn't so much in the news, but Australia is in trouble and it saddens me.

Why can't we weigh each other as individuals, not lump all of one nation into a category, and try to be friends?

I like Brits and Aussies and those who use the Euro. I worry for them and don't wish them any hard times. We fought side by side against Hitler and my dad, who was there from D-Day on, tells me that Brits are some of the bravest, toughest, and finest soldiers he ever saw. He would be shocked to hear himself denigrated by the same people he fought with as friends. He's 96 and very much alert and well. He thinks Brits are his friends.

It is just so sad to see people who say they are highly educated have such a narrow view of 330 million individuals, all of whom are different.

I know what you mean. My granpa was in Patton's 3rd Army, 91st Division, with a very German last name, no less. The stereotyping is really annoying. Even here at my apartment complex in redneck Phoenix we have people from 20 nationalities, and you will commonly hear 4 languages in one afternoon. I recall telling some Brit, that I grew up in Virginia, he immediately started talking about the Christian Right and all that...just because there is an evangelical university in Liberty, Virgina...a small town 170 miles from where I grew up, and had never been to, nor do I even go to church. But, this clown was convinced I was one of them. Hey, I'm not, but I'm glad we have more than idiotic state churches, which is a big reason for our Declaration of Independence to begin with. He had no clue that the Northern Virginia is one of the most affluent places on the planet. Unlike many of the Europeans, I don't stay in Thailand because I was a miserable failure in my own country, or I'm forced to go there because I can't afford the cigarette taxes in my own country. I come to explore new opportunities and live life to the fullest, not to hand out with a bunch of prison tattoos talking about how bad things are in Thailand.

I come to explore new opportunities and live life to the fullest, not to hand out with a bunch of prison tattoos talking about how bad things are in Thailand.

Remove the missionaries from the city and half of the Americans will be gone.

A large number of the missionaries are American; that is true. But there are also a large number of European and Korean missionaries here too.

But I don't notice them.

There not here for the Food,thats for sure.

On a more serious note, Americans are know for the ability to reinvent themselves, to morph and shapeshift, one member here actually merged with a primate.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Daoyai,

I'd guess that every member here is a primate, and: for every member here, if same-species primate merging had not happened in the past, they would not be manifested in their current meat-package transcribing thoughts (morphemes) into (sub-vocal interior, or spoken aloud) phonemes, and, finally, rendering them into glyphs on this forum. And, I'd guess that every member here is probably carrying on with same-species primate merging, at some level of frequency, some more than others, some making a lot of noise about it, others more quiet.

If members here are carrying on "merging" with non-primate species, I'd rather not know it about it, thanks.

I am kind of psychically "allergic" to any generalizations about people from any one country, one language group, one ethnic group, etc. At the "grossest" level, yes, I think, some of the stereotypes about tendencies in public behavior by certain groups of people may have some practical truth, but I believe that any one individual, one millimeter beneath the social surface of typical interaction, defies all preconceptions.

If by "morphing," and "shape-shifting," you mean "adaptability," or willingness to flexibly adapt to different environments: again I think that's an individual matter, and I think one needs to distinguish ... among expats ... those who come here because they have some real specific interest in some aspect of Thai culture, such as Vipassana meditation, scholarly research (very rare); those who come here at a later age to commit suicide slowly via booze, sex, etc. (more common, typically male, usually making a lot of nasty noise); and, those who, having lived fairly "normal" lives, come here to retire, enjoy the relative power of their pensions, or savings, access to good cheap medical and dental care, and who live here a bit "outside" of the Thai reality, continuing more of the lifestyle they lived in their home countries (lots of those).

And, there are people who come here, not so much out of an initial deliberate choice, but as a result of having gotten a job here at one point, and learned to love the country, or having met and fallen in love with a Thai person, and decided to put down roots, and bring the children up here. I remember hearing, about ten years ago, from an American-Canadian expat friend, who was part of the second generation of his family to actually grow-up in Thailand, that 75% of the former American Peace Corps volunteers in Thailand had ended up living long-term in the country. It is among this group that I meet people for whom I have great respect, people I think of as "deep adopters," people that have partly become Thai, in the sense of having a profound depth in understanding Thai culture and psyche (I don't claim to be one of these).

Then, I think you have another class of expats, also rarer, who kind of end-up here for similar reasons that led certain types of American younger people to flock to San Francisco in the 1960's. The flotsam and jetsam of cultural cataclysms ? The born-to-be pilgrims, destined to be strangers in a strange land ? This is an interesting mix of "beautiful dreamers," lost flower-children, artistic types, self-exiles from the home country for whatever reasons. Unfortunately, this group can also include pathological liars, scam-artists, fake mystics, and really dangerous expats (dangerous to other expats !) who get involved in corrupt activities.

Missionaries: well, I have no experience with them; I take the word of other people here on this forum that there are a whole bunch of them.

Again, all these "hypothetical categories" really should be blown away like dead leaves when you encounter the living unique reality of any one person who may mix-and-match, paradoxically, any, or all, or none of the above. Of course, when I say, "encounter:" I mean more than a casual meeting.

Finally, I feel I must clarify that: if you happen to be referring to this human primate meat-package, when you speak of "one member here actually merged with a primate:"

The word "merge" doesn't really quite encapsulate the indescribable cosmic singularity that happened when this human body was dying in an incomplete, vast, empty section of the Bangkok subway under construction, and was concentrating all his consciousness on the upcoming passage through the bardo-states of delusion, as the vital energy, the inner winds, sog rlung, began to withdraw from the channels of his subtle body ... and then ... serendipitously ... was met by the thirty-seventh orangutan in a Bangkok private zoo, raided by the police: the only one to escape the round-up, who was also dying himself, and also preparing his consciousness for the upcoming transmigration through the bardo-state veils of temptation left behind by his karmic residue.

For reasons unclear to both of us, the orang's mind and soul went into this human body, rather than the reverse. And, these two separate sets of mind and soul co-exist in this current human body, which was somehow mysteriously re-generated by this transformation.

Perhaps the orang's soul had greater compassion for the obvious (to the orang) misery of the human condition, in which "sense of self" is so often divorced from the overwhelming majesty of the blossoming present by addiction to abstract mentation ? Perhaps the orang, who I have learned, through my human dreams, was an advanced adept of the teachings of the great spiritual master, and Oranyogi, Ur Orang, knew that he could survive in me, but: not, I in him ?

Whatever happened in that deserted giant subterranean chamber, my (human) memories are just of swirling clouds of lights, at times like synchronized swarms of fireflies, at times, like spectacular fireworks, at times like the rotating beacons of lighthouses, at times just a blinding glare of colorless pure radiance.

I consider it possible that this experience of cross-same-species transference of mind and soul may be as common as puppy love, but I realize that's another thing I'll never, probably, be able to know, since I would suspect anyone (including myself) who spoke of such things as possibly being quite insane.

So, I hope that helps you understand, as we Americans like to say, "where I'm coming from," and why I can say, like Bob Dylan sang: "And there ain't no place I'm bound to."

yours, ~o:37;

I think what orang37 is trying to say is we are all one and terms such as American just indicate where we originated.

I carry one citizenship and could very easily have two but to me it would not matter I live in Chiang Mai because I enjoy the difference in culture and have always felt nationalism to be similar to religion. A cause for war. We are all citizens of one planet.

End of discussion.

On a more serious note, Americans are know for the ability to reinvent themselves, to morph and shapeshift, one member here actually merged with a primate.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Daoyai,

I'd guess that every member here is a primate, and: for every member here, if same-species primate merging had not happened in the past, they would not be manifested in their current meat-package transcribing thoughts (morphemes) into (sub-vocal interior, or spoken aloud) phonemes, and, finally, rendering them into glyphs on this forum. And, I'd guess that every member here is probably carrying on with same-species primate merging, at some level of frequency, some more than others, some making a lot of noise about it, others more quiet.

If members here are carrying on "merging" with non-primate species, I'd rather not know it about it, thanks.

I am kind of psychically "allergic" to any generalizations about people from any one country, one language group, one ethnic group, etc. At the "grossest" level, yes, I think, some of the stereotypes about tendencies in public behavior by certain groups of people may have some practical truth, but I believe that any one individual, one millimeter beneath the social surface of typical interaction, defies all preconceptions.

If by "morphing," and "shape-shifting," you mean "adaptability," or willingness to flexibly adapt to different environments: again I think that's an individual matter, and I think one needs to distinguish ... among expats ... those who come here because they have some real specific interest in some aspect of Thai culture, such as Vipassana meditation, scholarly research (very rare); those who come here at a later age to commit suicide slowly via booze, sex, etc. (more common, typically male, usually making a lot of nasty noise); and, those who, having lived fairly "normal" lives, come here to retire, enjoy the relative power of their pensions, or savings, access to good cheap medical and dental care, and who live here a bit "outside" of the Thai reality, continuing more of the lifestyle they lived in their home countries (lots of those).

And, there are people who come here, not so much out of an initial deliberate choice, but as a result of having gotten a job here at one point, and learned to love the country, or having met and fallen in love with a Thai person, and decided to put down roots, and bring the children up here. I remember hearing, about ten years ago, from an American-Canadian expat friend, who was part of the second generation of his family to actually grow-up in Thailand, that 75% of the former American Peace Corps volunteers in Thailand had ended up living long-term in the country. It is among this group that I meet people for whom I have great respect, people I think of as "deep adopters," people that have partly become Thai, in the sense of having a profound depth in understanding Thai culture and psyche (I don't claim to be one of these).

Then, I think you have another class of expats, also rarer, who kind of end-up here for similar reasons that led certain types of American younger people to flock to San Francisco in the 1960's. The flotsam and jetsam of cultural cataclysms ? The born-to-be pilgrims, destined to be strangers in a strange land ? This is an interesting mix of "beautiful dreamers," lost flower-children, artistic types, self-exiles from the home country for whatever reasons. Unfortunately, this group can also include pathological liars, scam-artists, fake mystics, and really dangerous expats (dangerous to other expats !) who get involved in corrupt activities.

Missionaries: well, I have no experience with them; I take the word of other people here on this forum that there are a whole bunch of them.

Again, all these "hypothetical categories" really should be blown away like dead leaves when you encounter the living unique reality of any one person who may mix-and-match, paradoxically, any, or all, or none of the above. Of course, when I say, "encounter:" I mean more than a casual meeting.

Finally, I feel I must clarify that: if you happen to be referring to this human primate meat-package, when you speak of "one member here actually merged with a primate:"

The word "merge" doesn't really quite encapsulate the indescribable cosmic singularity that happened when this human body was dying in an incomplete, vast, empty section of the Bangkok subway under construction, and was concentrating all his consciousness on the upcoming passage through the bardo-states of delusion, as the vital energy, the inner winds, sog rlung, began to withdraw from the channels of his subtle body ... and then ... serendipitously ... was met by the thirty-seventh orangutan in a Bangkok private zoo, raided by the police: the only one to escape the round-up, who was also dying himself, and also preparing his consciousness for the upcoming transmigration through the bardo-state veils of temptation left behind by his karmic residue.

For reasons unclear to both of us, the orang's mind and soul went into this human body, rather than the reverse. And, these two separate sets of mind and soul co-exist in this current human body, which was somehow mysteriously re-generated by this transformation.

Perhaps the orang's soul had greater compassion for the obvious (to the orang) misery of the human condition, in which "sense of self" is so often divorced from the overwhelming majesty of the blossoming present by addiction to abstract mentation ? Perhaps the orang, who I have learned, through my human dreams, was an advanced adept of the teachings of the great spiritual master, and Oranyogi, Ur Orang, knew that he could survive in me, but: not, I in him ?

Whatever happened in that deserted giant subterranean chamber, my (human) memories are just of swirling clouds of lights, at times like synchronized swarms of fireflies, at times, like spectacular fireworks, at times like the rotating beacons of lighthouses, at times just a blinding glare of colorless pure radiance.

I consider it possible that this experience of cross-same-species transference of mind and soul may be as common as puppy love, but I realize that's another thing I'll never, probably, be able to know, since I would suspect anyone (including myself) who spoke of such things as possibly being quite insane.

So, I hope that helps you understand, as we Americans like to say, "where I'm coming from," and why I can say, like Bob Dylan sang: "And there ain't no place I'm bound to."

yours, ~o:37;

Jeeez,dont sit by me on a Plane.

Jeeez,dont sit by me on a Plane.

He's harmless iin person.

Jeeez,dont sit by me on a Plane.

If you're fortunate, he'll tell you all about it on the next bardo.

So, I hope that helps you understand . . . why I can say, like Bob Dylan sang: "And there ain't no place I'm bound to."

yours, ~o:37;

I think I understand: because the two of you know you can't get there from here, right?

So.. this topic has been running for over a year now.

Are we using it to fill the gaps between lamenting the rain, cold, haze, and Songkran?

Sort of a 'go-to' standby topic to debate at times when we're not in the middle of anything else?

Anyone think it's all been said by now, or shall we do another year?

I'm sure we can get creative and come up with another perennial topic to exhaust in the whine-gaps this year. But if 'Americans' remain more interesting than anything else then I'm okay with doing another year too of course.

NeverSure, on 16 Apr 2013 - 06:48, said:

I am saddened by the denigration of Americans on this site.

-snip-

Despite your 2,300 posts, you seem new here. Americans are in good company. The following are all regularly denigrated on TVisa:

Indians

Russians

Thai

Chinese

Women

Missionaries

Those who "haughtily" live on 150k+ a month

Those who "pathetically" live on 30k a month

Those who wear singlets

Those who love Songkarn

Those who hate Songkarn

Those who send their kids to Thai schools

Those who send their kids to international schools

Those who marry young, beautiful Thai-Chinese PhD's with stunning figures who are independently wealthy

Those who marry prostitutes who are more likely to be independently wealthy

Those who marry anyone in between

Dog lovers

Cat lovers

English teachers

Those who buy houses

Those who rent

The overweight

The non Thai-speakers

The butchers

The bakers

The candlestick makers.

Rub-a-dub-dub

Welcome to the club

Of snub!

T

I am kind of psychically "allergic" to any generalizations about people from any one country, one language group, one ethnic group, etc. . . . .

So, I hope that helps you understand, as we Americans like to say, "where I'm coming from," . . .

One wants to applaud the subtle wit at play in the contradiction here . . . and so one does: Bravo!

Those who love SongkarnThose who hate Songkarn

You forgot those who misspell Thai words!

I am saddened by the denigration of Americans on this site.

-snip-

First they came for the Women,

and I didn't speak out, because I wasn't a woman

Then they came for the Indians,

And I didn't speak out because wasn't Indian

Then they came for the Russians,

And I didn't speak out, because wasn't Russian

Then they came for the Americans,

And I was saddened, because I'm an American.

Woe is the life of an American on ThaiVisa!

T

*with apologies to Martin Niemöller

Those who love SongkarnThose who hate Songkarn

You forgot those who misspell Thai words!

...and the grammar and spelling police!

T

the Arabs seem to be getting off light today, and no mention of the "J" word? I know a J-beak, when I see one, and there are lots of them in CM.

the Arabs seem to be getting off light today, and no mention of the "J" word? I know a J-beak, when I see one, and there are lots of them in CM.

Ah so! Japanese.

And nobody mentioned us poor Canadians who constantly get mistaken for ugly Americans.

Oh, wait, just what is an ugly American? Are they similar to an ugly German, Swede, Russian, Brit or Aussie?

And nobody mentioned us poor Canadians who constantly get mistaken for ugly Americans.

Oh, too bad for you.

As a fully-fledged misanthrope I can never see any sense in concentrating one's dislike of humans on a particular group of them. They're all equally contemptible in my book.

Oh dear, recent posts all wandering far away from the OT. I guess it will soon be time to close. A last chance to bring this back on topic

I think The Dukes has got to be the reason for all the Americans here. That's why I'm here.

T

On a more serious note, Americans are know for the ability to reinvent themselves, to morph and shapeshift, one member here actually merged with a primate.

-snip-

Finally, I feel I must clarify that: if you happen to be referring to this human primate meat-package, when you speak of "one member here actually merged with a primate:"

The word "merge" doesn't really quite encapsulate the indescribable cosmic singularity that happened when this human body was dying in an incomplete, vast, empty section of the Bangkok subway under construction, and was concentrating all his consciousness on the upcoming passage through the bardo-states of delusion, as the vital energy, the inner winds, sog rlung, began to withdraw from the channels of his subtle body ... and then ... serendipitously ... was met by the thirty-seventh orangutan in a Bangkok private zoo, raided by the police: the only one to escape the round-up, who was also dying himself, and also preparing his consciousness for the upcoming transmigration through the bardo-state veils of temptation left behind by his karmic residue.

For reasons unclear to both of us, the orang's mind and soul went into this human body, rather than the reverse. And, these two separate sets of mind and soul co-exist in this current human body, which was somehow mysteriously re-generated by this transformation.

Perhaps the orang's soul had greater compassion for the obvious (to the orang) misery of the human condition, in which "sense of self" is so often divorced from the overwhelming majesty of the blossoming present by addiction to abstract mentation ? Perhaps the orang, who I have learned, through my human dreams, was an advanced adept of the teachings of the great spiritual master, and Oranyogi, Ur Orang, knew that he could survive in me, but: not, I in him ?

-snip-

yours, ~o:37;

Finally, all is made clear. I used to think you were strange. Now I know: you are strange in the nicest way

T

"In other tourist places, Hua Hin, Koh Chang, Samui, Phuket, Bangkok I heard nowhere near this number as a percentage of foreigners".

Haven't you compared the prices?

The answer is pretty obvious.

Not to mention that Chiang Mai offers things that none of those places has. Why would an American move to Hua Hin when he can move to Florida or Mexico for the same, and likely better beaches? Not to mention for the same or better prices.

Er what about the thai ladies - 40 kgs instead of 140 kgs.

Let's pay a tribute to the farang lesbians doing the Fred Flintstone impersonations.

"In other tourist places, Hua Hin, Koh Chang, Samui, Phuket, Bangkok I heard nowhere near this number as a percentage of foreigners".

Haven't you compared the prices?

The answer is pretty obvious.

Not to mention that Chiang Mai offers things that none of those places has. Why would an American move to Hua Hin when he can move to Florida or Mexico for the same, and likely better beaches? Not to mention for the same or better prices.

Er what about the thai ladies - 40 kgs instead of 140 kgs.

you ain't kiddin'. I've been on the www.mexicancupid.com site (since I live 3 hours away), and it is a horror show.......5'5", 154 lbs. is considered "slim." 5 pesos for "mota," 50 pesos for "blanca," and 500 pesos for "publicas," and those are actually the prices for prison inmates in Sonora, as published in www.elimparcial.com.