UK pensions

[evadgib]

23 hours ago, transam said:

I am still trying to work out who you "were" on TVF....Another bit of fun....

I'm guessing it's loppylugs.

 

BTW Trans; I hope you have better luck this year during the annual 'serial posters love-in' :)

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by evadgib

[altcar bob]

On 12/8/2017 at 5:53 PM, rockingrobin said:

The law you are looking for

Social Security Fraud Act

This is excellent ,a really excellent and well thought provoking post,really Frank Bruno could not come up with better statement

   Any dumbo could quote a blanket statement,as you have,but it the specifics of the 'Social Security fraud act'. as you prescribe to,You see you have to open the the reverent 'law' in the publication and inward digest and understand the penalties,and any other awards that could potentially thwart any attempt towards criminality,which I am pretty well assured in my own mind you are well versed in (not)  lol

[transam]

9 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

This is excellent ,a really excellent and well thought provoking post,really Frank Bruno could not come up with better statement

   Any dumbo could quote a blanket statement,as you have,but it the specifics of the 'Social Security fraud act'. as you prescribe to,You see you have to open the the reverent 'law' in the publication and inward digest and understand the penalties,and any other awards that could potentially thwart any attempt towards criminality,which I am pretty well assured in my own mind you are well versed in (not)  lol

Oh dear.....

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, altcar bob said:

This is excellent ,a really excellent and well thought provoking post,really Frank Bruno could not come up with better statement

   Any dumbo could quote a blanket statement,as you have,but it the specifics of the 'Social Security fraud act'. as you prescribe to,You see you have to open the the reverent 'law' in the publication and inward digest and understand the penalties,and any other awards that could potentially thwart any attempt towards criminality,which I am pretty well assured in my own mind you are well versed in (not)  lol

Section 16 of the act makes it an offence not to disclose.

The term non sanctionable does not alter this, but removess the ability to reduce or suspend the  benefit as one of the alternatives as a penalty. It leaves the other options available,  criminal prosecution, administrative penalty or caution and the use  of proceeds of crime act to seize saving and assets.

 

 The course of action will depend how the offence is viewed , fraud, mis representation or error

[altcar bob]

12 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Section 16 of the act makes it an offence not to disclose.

The term non sanctionable does not alter this, but removess the ability to reduce or suspend the  benefit as one of the alternatives as a penalty. It leaves the other options available,  criminal prosecution, administrative penalty or caution and the use  of proceeds of crime act to seize saving and assets.

 

 The course of action will depend how the offence is viewed , fraud, mis representation or error

There are no penalties that can be ascribed to the recipient of the OAP.  The DWP have attempted in the past to address this issue, but unfortunately when put to the test in a county court some time ago,lost their case,fact is they never turned up,as near certainty they would have lost the case,opening the flood gates

[nontabury]

17 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Section 16 of the act makes it an offence not to disclose.

The term non sanctionable does not alter this, but removess the ability to reduce or suspend the  benefit as one of the alternatives as a penalty. It leaves the other options available,  criminal prosecution, administrative penalty or caution and the use  of proceeds of crime act to seize saving and assets.

 

 The course of action will depend how the offence is viewed , fraud, mis representation or error

I’ve never heard of anyone going to prison for not notifying the authorities of their whereabouts. As for paying the money back,in the event of the Authorities finding out, you now live in a frozen area, some may have felt pressurised into pay money back, other refused to bend, again I am not aware that they were penalised in any way. Do you?

[altcar bob]

Just now, nontabury said:

I’ve never heard of anyone going to prison for not notifying the authorities of their whereabouts. As for paying the money back,in the event of the Authorities finding out, you now live in a frozen area, some may have felt pressurised into pay money back, other refused to bend, again I am not aware that they were penalised in any way. Do you?

No he doesn't and never will.  Imagine this..a letter adressed to Mr Whatever with UK address( or anywhere really EU  US  PH anywhere)  stating 'are you in the UK?'   laughing stock.     You will never be asked to pay money back   but frozen to a date you agree to (3 days ago)  and regardless there will be no pressure,nobody at DWP is interested,nobody searching absolutely no interest 

 

  Here we have a situation Old Age Pensioners with virtually 2 feet in the grave worried about a poxy amount,this in itself is a worrying development

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, altcar bob said:

There are no penalties that can be ascribed to the recipient of the OAP.  The DWP have attempted in the past to address this issue, but unfortunately when put to the test in a county court some time ago,lost their case,fact is they never turned up,as near certainty they would have lost the case,opening the flood gates

The penalties ascribed can be found in

Social Security Adminstration Act 1992

Fraud  Act 2006 chapter 35

[denby45]

I will reach pension age by 2023 = 67 years old. I have contracted out years so the figure 155 is not correct. However I used that as a best case scenario. I also realise that that 155 will of course increase over the remaining years however I used today's figure for comparison sake. Now I have no intention to visit the UK during this time however I do realise that if I did go down the rocky road of declaring I live in the UK and actually live in Thailand, at some point I will have to visit. Probably at least once per year, maybe more. What is the price of a flight these days. Can I get one for around 250 quid.

 

Conclusion: For me it is just not worth the hassle.

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Den

Edited December 11, 2017 by denby45

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The penalties ascribed can be found in

Social Security Adminstration Act 1992

Fraud  Act 2006 chapter 35

I haven't looked up the Fraud Act, but I'm certain you are correct in quoting the Social Security Administration Act 1992. Sections 111A and 112 do specify the offences and penalties. The offences include failure to disclose relevant information or change of circumstances.  Section 71 provides for the recovery of overpayments.

The question in my mind was whether the state pension is subject to this Act, but it appears that it is. Section 1(as amended 31/08/2017 says:-

(4) In this section and section 2 below “benefit” means–

[4(za) universal credit;]

   (a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

[5(zb) state pension or a lump sum under Part 1 of the Pensions Act 2014;]

[1(zc) bereavement support payment under section 30 of the Pensions Act 2014;]

[6(aa) a jobseeker’s allowance;] and

[7(ab) state pension credit;]

[8(ac) an employment and support allowance;]

[3(ad) personal independence payment;]

     (b) any income-related benefit.

 

Recent posts suggest that in a few cases where the DWP has identified pension upratings  having been paid to expats in "frozen" countries, they have done little more than stop the increases. That is not because they can't recover the overpayments and prosecute the "offenders", more likely because of a combination of factors:- (1) It's probably not been identified as a significant factor in the overall amount of benefit fraud (2) They've got limited resources and bigger game to hunt.

So anybody living in Thailand and using an accommodation address in the UK for their pension can at present do so with relative impunity. If this type of fraud was ever identified as significant, then things could change quite quickly. 

"It's up to you."
 

[evadgib]

On 12/8/2017 at 5:55 PM, transam said:

Yep, you cannot be "burned" until the embassy knows, unless you and the Mrs has done a prenup regarding a quiet bonfire somewhere...

That is to stop or at least minimize the chances of mortal remains being disposed of before the appropriate authorities have concluded any investigation into the circumstances in which they died. There is currently no mechanism enabling FCO & DWP to join the dots & TBH they're far too busy with their everyday workloads to have any chance of noticing.

Edited December 11, 2017 by evadgib

[altcar bob]

17 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I haven't looked up the Fraud Act, but I'm certain you are correct in quoting the Social Security Administration Act 1992. Sections 111A and 112 do specify the offences and penalties. The offences include failure to disclose relevant information or change of circumstances.  Section 71 provides for the recovery of overpayments.

The question in my mind was whether the state pension is subject to this Act, but it appears that it is. Section 1(as amended 31/08/2017 says:-

(4) In this section and section 2 below “benefit” means–

[4(za) universal credit;]

   (a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

[5(zb) state pension or a lump sum under Part 1 of the Pensions Act 2014;]

[1(zc) bereavement support payment under section 30 of the Pensions Act 2014;]

[6(aa) a jobseeker’s allowance;] and

[7(ab) state pension credit;]

[8(ac) an employment and support allowance;]

[3(ad) personal independence payment;]

     (b) any income-related benefit.

 

Recent posts suggest that in a few cases where the DWP has identified pension upratings  having been paid to expats in "frozen" countries, they have done little more than stop the increases. That is not because they can't recover the overpayments and prosecute the "offenders", more likely because of a combination of factors:- (1) It's probably not been identified as a significant factor in the overall amount of benefit fraud (2) They've got limited resources and bigger game to hunt.

So anybody living in Thailand and using an accommodation address in the UK for their pension can at present do so with relative impunity. If this type of fraud was ever identified as significant, then things could change quite quickly. 

"It's up to you."
 

Thanks Eff, i did read and re-read it in conjunction with another piece of legislation and conclusion is the authorities would not touch it (not individually) with a five foot barge pole. It is not what you did,more like what you did not do to obtain the non- whatever  OAP pension

 

  I'm not really bothered anyway,hopefully my times done in Thailand,pissed off to the back teeth with it,Thai girlfriend has a job awaiting in the UK paying about£1000 a week  but not interested in going,so I'm stuck with Canaries or Spain,did read up on Mexico ,too far away tho.

 

Did mention CC proceedings in UK regarding frozen pensions,a woman from NW UK  challenged the DWP regard of imposing the frozen bit on her,about 6 or so years now,think Barrow- in Furness CC,young journalist got hold of the story,after the events ...was incredulous at the secrecy of it all,another similar case was gotten rid of just before the woman's case,same fashion (DWP never turned up)  his conclusion was individual cases will never be defended or prosecuted,multiple ones would tho.  Cannot find the piece anymore but Andrew Drummond did take a passing swipe at it few years ago

  You were probably uniformed public sector too,likewise moi, bloody tax bill reads as though I'm paying off the UKs national debt for the next 50 years

 

The Pension Credits might bring this more into focus tho  ,the 2x 4weeks out of GB,will undoubtedly be monitored

Edited December 12, 2017 by altcar bob

[nong38]

22 hours ago, denby45 said:

I will reach pension age by 2023 = 67 years old. I have contracted out years so the figure 155 is not correct. However I used that as a best case scenario. I also realise that that 155 will of course increase over the remaining years however I used today's figure for comparison sake. Now I have no intention to visit the UK during this time however I do realise that if I did go down the rocky road of declaring I live in the UK and actually live in Thailand, at some point I will have to visit. Probably at least once per year, maybe more. What is the price of a flight these days. Can I get one for around 250 quid.

 

Conclusion: For me it is just not worth the hassle.

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Den

The price of a flight will vary depending airline, time of year and seats still available but I have just returned with Singapore Airlines, the cost was 452 gbp round trip, a good airline to travel with, there are cheaper options of course.

[delphioracle]

Interesting to note our (un)worthy leaders in the U K Parliament have granted  themselve a 1.8% Salary increase yet despite all the  piss and wind emanting from those in Parliament and elsewhere who supposedly sympathise with our plight we  (among others) are still being frozen out.

 

Quote

MPs will soon enjoy a 1.8 percent pay rise, bringing their incomes to over £77,000 ($102,778). It’s their fourth pay rise in two years. Meanwhile, pay for public-sector workers - nurses, teachers and firemen - remains capped at 1 percent. Merry Christmas.

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by delphioracle

[evadgib]

Live Waspi protest from Downing Street.

 

 

[bert bloggs]

Sorry dont know what happened ,but did not post the above intentionally .

Anyway as people were posting saying that no pensioners have been prosecuted for claiming the rises while living abroad ,i thought i would look up any cases on the internet , nothing ,plenty of dole ,blodgers etc ,but nothing even going back years regarding someone being prosecuted for claiming an increase while living out of the country .

[hackjam]

Here is my story.

I am 55 and have just received confirmation from Newcastle that I have 30 years contributions. I finished contributing about 4years ago.

So my question's are:

Do I need to contribute any more?

What age will I be able to claim pension at and how much is it right now?

[denby45]

4 hours ago, hackjam said:

Here is my story.

I am 55 and have just received confirmation from Newcastle that I have 30 years contributions. I finished contributing about 4years ago.

So my question's are:

Do I need to contribute any more?

What age will I be able to claim pension at and how much is it right now?

Yes you need another 5 years to qualify for full pension as of today. That might of course change in future.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

5 hours ago, hackjam said:

Here is my story.

I am 55 and have just received confirmation from Newcastle that I have 30 years contributions. I finished contributing about 4years ago.

So my question's are:

Do I need to contribute any more?

What age will I be able to claim pension at and how much is it right now?

Start by asking them for a forecast and then you will know their answers to the same questions.  Then look carefully at details they hold such as your name, your DOB, your NI number and your contributions record and ensure they are correct. Most errors arise from the input of incorrect data. Advise them of any errors then ask for a new forecast. The forecast will include answers to the questions you have posed. 

[JohnC]

you qualify in 2029 on your 67 th birthday, current pension at that time is £159 but this can be affected if you were contracted in or out of SERPS. As intimated above best course of action is to request a forecast from the pensions dept, there they say things might change in the future and the current government is looking at raising retiring age to 70 and qualifying years to 35! 

[hackjam]

So,  right now, qualifying years is what?

[Phuket Man]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:02 PM, hackjam said:

So,  right now, qualifying years is what?

35 years for a full pension.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Phuket Man

[hackjam]

OK clear now, I am 5 years contributions away from full pension, so should I pay the 5 years or am I better off sticking with my 30 years contributions?

How much would it cost to up he 5 years contributions that I am lacking?

Would I be right in saying that as things stand right now, I should receive 136 pounds a week when I reach 67?

[Phuket Man]

2 hours ago, hackjam said:

Would I be right in saying that as things stand right now, I should receive 136 pounds a week when I reach 67?

Divide the full amount by 35 and multiply by 30.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Phuket Man

[topt]

4 hours ago, hackjam said:

OK clear now, I am 5 years contributions away from full pension, so should I pay the 5 years or am I better off sticking with my 30 years contributions?

How much would it cost to up he 5 years contributions that I am lacking?

Would I be right in saying that as things stand right now, I should receive 136 pounds a week when I reach 67?

Be careful what you do and discuss with DWP/HMRC before you do anything.

There is also a difference if you can pay Voluntary Class 2 or Class 3 contributions. Class 3 are 14.10 per week and Class 2 (if you can prove you were employed abroad or self employed abroad) only 2.80 per week.

 

According to my Gov.uk online NICS contribution record I am missing a paltry £12 or so to complete a full year for one back year. However according to the DWP "specialist" even if I paid it, it would not count towards the new £159 pension. Like you I have 30 full years but, being contracted out in the past, I would need to make about 8 years of contributions for the years after the new pension started (April 2016 from memory) to give me the full figure when I retire.

 

There were some press reports a while ago about individuals in the UK who paid top ups and then found it made no difference to their pension and had huge issues trying to get their money repaid.

 

As a previous poster said get a forecast and then I strongly suggest talking to as many relevant agencies as possible as their advice can be conflicting.

 

I am still cogitating about what to do myself.........

[evadgib]

I'm in the same boat & waiting until after brexit to see what happens next. My gut feeling is that the goalposts will be on the move again shortly therefore i'm sitting back until the situation is very much clearer.

 

Meanwhile seen this morning...

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-letter-from-the-prime-minister-to-uk-nationals-living-in-europe

Edited December 21, 2017 by evadgib

[keithsimmonds]

4 hours ago, topt said:

Be careful what you do and discuss with DWP/HMRC before you do anything.

There is also a difference if you can pay Voluntary Class 2 or Class 3 contributions. Class 3 are 14.10 per week and Class 2 (if you can prove you were employed abroad or self employed abroad) only 2.80 per week.

 

According to my Gov.uk online NICS contribution record I am missing a paltry £12 or so to complete a full year for one back year. However according to the DWP "specialist" even if I paid it, it would not count towards the new £159 pension. Like you I have 30 full years but, being contracted out in the past, I would need to make about 8 years of contributions for the years after the new pension started (April 2016 from memory) to give me the full figure when I retire.

 

There were some press reports a while ago about individuals in the UK who paid top ups and then found it made no difference to their pension and had huge issues trying to get their money repaid.

 

As a previous poster said get a forecast and then I strongly suggest talking to as many relevant agencies as possible as their advice can be conflicting.

 

I am still cogitating about what to do myself.........

I myself have 42 years of full contributions so far and need another 3 years to qualify for the full state pension....just because i was contracted out in the past...i mean 42 years and still paying....

[hackjam]

So the goalposts must have changed recently, as, from memory, last correspondence with Newcastle informed me that I had reached quota for full state pension and am sure it was 65, and that correspondence was about  3 years ago.

[topt]

2 hours ago, hackjam said:

So the goalposts must have changed recently, as, from memory, last correspondence with Newcastle informed me that I had reached quota for full state pension and am sure it was 65, and that correspondence was about  3 years ago.

The 2011 pension Act brought forward changes from the 2007 Act so if you can dig out that correspondence it should be from more than 3 years ago - all be it maybe not a lot more.....

Quote

Pensions Act 2011[edit]

The Act amends the timetable for increasing the state pension age to 66. Under the PA 2007, the increase to 66 was due to take effect between 2004 and 2026. This Act will bring forward the increase so that state pension age for both men and women will begin rising from 65 in December 2018 to reach 66 by October 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

or for more detail -

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02234/SN02234.pdf

 

Depends on your age of course - and there was also the 2014 Act raising it to 67 in 2026 2028

Edited December 21, 2017 by topt

[evadgib]

Of interest to any calling DWP or planning to move funds:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-dwp-customer-telephone-lines-become-free

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-establishes-new-money-laundering-watchdog

Edited December 22, 2017 by evadgib