Why Did You Decide To Leave Thailand?

[letitbe]

I have commented on this subject before I lived in Pattaya and worked in the property business for the best part of 8 excellent years that turned sour towards the end, reasons being....

I opened a business with the wrong person, someone who wasn't prepared to put any hard work in himself, had a champagne lifestyle and lemonade money(and liked to dip into peoples money he was entrusted with)in the space of 2 years he went from living in a studio apartment to driving a porsche cayenne worth 7 million thb and amazingly lived pretty much rent free in peoples properties he had either promised to sell or rent, he then got sick and left me to run the business all the while he and his girl both drew salaries from the company account and paid off their car finances, basically there was no puttting back into the business just taking out.

also, he was very much into the brown nosing of thai police and the like who thought he was a rich man with his car so liked to be seen with him perhaps with the thought that they could get money from him at some point(little did they know that the car was on finance and the down payment was out of money entrusted to him from soemone who worked in the oil business and very rarely came to pattaya, when he did I was expected to deal with him and say this character was too ill to see anyone)

eventually he wanted me to sign over some land I had power of attorney for that I was selling for at that time a family friend, even if it wasn't a family friend I wouldn't do it so my fate in pattaya was omnimus....

I told him I was resigning and taking a break from Pattaya to size up my future plans and that I would be back to sort things out when I was ready, if you can imagine running a business on your own for the best part of a year I think I was pretty much close to some kind of breakdown....

I arrived back in Pattaya after 3 weeks back in the U.K with my family to finalise the sale of my house, that went through and then I was ready to face this person and tell him it was definetly over between us business wise.

I didn't get the chance to do that unfortunately as whilst I was away he had contacted the police and hatched a plan with some media cretin who is still there today to blackmail me for all I was worth, they issued a warrant on me for some trumped up charges that I had stolen from the company, I was awoken at my friends condo that I was staying at early in the morning and raided by the police like I was some villain on the run and whilst they detained me they were getting together all my bank books/chanote for some land I owed and seized my passport, luckily for me I was not alone in that apartment and my father had travelled back with me otherwise I wouldn't have had the chance to contact my lawyer and deal with this mess...

I got to the station on soi 9 and was met by a swiss character who claimed to be a lawyer who could sort out my problems....all I needed to do was sign over my land I owned to my former business partner, wasn't going to happen, then former business partner shows up and thinks he can get all aggressive with me and threaten me....luckily for me the police officer in charge who had been paid to detain me and saw another side to this 'supposed victim' of my crimes and was not impressed with his act of intimidation and had what I can only describe as some kind of mercy towards me and told him to leave, if he hit me then I was certain to retaliate so best off no altercation happened...my lawyer then showed up, came in and scooped all my documents up that were laid out on the table told them to charge me or drop it there and then, they charged me and I was slung in the cell whilst my lawyer arranged a deal to get me out, cost me 90k thb bail to get out that day so everyone in the police must have had a nice party on that and my lawyer also took his share I would say...still I was now out buy minus a passport as I was told they were preparing the case to go to court and held my passport so I would not dissapear.

I was fortunate to have many friends that stood by me and even some that went to soi 9 and gave character witness statements saying this was all B.S and they were prepared to stand in court on my behalf, some thai some farang all legit business people.

After 6 weeks and several attempts to get the boys in soi9 to tell me if they were going to charge me I one day walked into the station, sat and waited for the arresting officer for a couple of hours who took me into his office and gave me my passport back...my visa had expired and I was now on overstay, I went straight to immigration, showed them my arrest letter and gave them my passport, paid the overstay fine and got 10 day extension, fair play to the man at the immigration he told me to put the letter away and sorted me out there and then.

I won't bore you anymore but that was 6 years ago, yes I have returned to Thailand since...even Pattaya a few times...it was difficult coming back home to the UK and took me a couple of years to get into a decent job and sort myself out which I am now...

I wouldn't change a thing to be quite honest looking back...would have changed lots at the time it was all happening.

Moral of the story...be careful who you get into business with anywhere in the world and be prepared for people who have nothing and never wanted to put any hard work in to go to any lengths to take your things!

Last I heard that he was in a wheelchair....but he was probably on some kind of con!!!

I have commented on this subject before I lived in Pattaya and worked in the property business for the best part of 8 excellent years that turned sour towards the end, reasons being....

I opened a business with the wrong person, someone who wasn't prepared to put any hard work in himself, had a champagne lifestyle and lemonade money(and liked to dip into peoples money he was entrusted with)in the space of 2 years he went from living in a studio apartment to driving a porsche cayenne worth 7 million thb and amazingly lived pretty much rent free in peoples properties he had either promised to sell or rent, he then got sick and left me to run the business all the while he and his girl both drew salaries from the company account and paid off their car finances, basically there was no puttting back into the business just taking out.

also, he was very much into the brown nosing of thai police and the like who thought he was a rich man with his car so liked to be seen with him perhaps with the thought that they could get money from him at some point(little did they know that the car was on finance and the down payment was out of money entrusted to him from soemone who worked in the oil business and very rarely came to pattaya, when he did I was expected to deal with him and say this character was too ill to see anyone)

eventually he wanted me to sign over some land I had power of attorney for that I was selling for at that time a family friend, even if it wasn't a family friend I wouldn't do it so my fate in pattaya was omnimus....

I told him I was resigning and taking a break from Pattaya to size up my future plans and that I would be back to sort things out when I was ready, if you can imagine running a business on your own for the best part of a year I think I was pretty much close to some kind of breakdown....

I arrived back in Pattaya after 3 weeks back in the U.K with my family to finalise the sale of my house, that went through and then I was ready to face this person and tell him it was definetly over between us business wise.

I didn't get the chance to do that unfortunately as whilst I was away he had contacted the police and hatched a plan with some media cretin who is still there today to blackmail me for all I was worth, they issued a warrant on me for some trumped up charges that I had stolen from the company, I was awoken at my friends condo that I was staying at early in the morning and raided by the police like I was some villain on the run and whilst they detained me they were getting together all my bank books/chanote for some land I owed and seized my passport, luckily for me I was not alone in that apartment and my father had travelled back with me otherwise I wouldn't have had the chance to contact my lawyer and deal with this mess...

I got to the station on soi 9 and was met by a swiss character who claimed to be a lawyer who could sort out my problems....all I needed to do was sign over my land I owned to my former business partner, wasn't going to happen, then former business partner shows up and thinks he can get all aggressive with me and threaten me....luckily for me the police officer in charge who had been paid to detain me and saw another side to this 'supposed victim' of my crimes and was not impressed with his act of intimidation and had what I can only describe as some kind of mercy towards me and told him to leave, if he hit me then I was certain to retaliate so best off no altercation happened...my lawyer then showed up, came in and scooped all my documents up that were laid out on the table told them to charge me or drop it there and then, they charged me and I was slung in the cell whilst my lawyer arranged a deal to get me out, cost me 90k thb bail to get out that day so everyone in the police must have had a nice party on that and my lawyer also took his share I would say...still I was now out buy minus a passport as I was told they were preparing the case to go to court and held my passport so I would not dissapear.

I was fortunate to have many friends that stood by me and even some that went to soi 9 and gave character witness statements saying this was all B.S and they were prepared to stand in court on my behalf, some thai some farang all legit business people.

After 6 weeks and several attempts to get the boys in soi9 to tell me if they were going to charge me I one day walked into the station, sat and waited for the arresting officer for a couple of hours who took me into his office and gave me my passport back...my visa had expired and I was now on overstay, I went straight to immigration, showed them my arrest letter and gave them my passport, paid the overstay fine and got 10 day extension, fair play to the man at the immigration he told me to put the letter away and sorted me out there and then.

I won't bore you anymore but that was 6 years ago, yes I have returned to Thailand since...even Pattaya a few times...it was difficult coming back home to the UK and took me a couple of years to get into a decent job and sort myself out which I am now...

I wouldn't change a thing to be quite honest looking back...would have changed lots at the time it was all happening.

Moral of the story...be careful who you get into business with anywhere in the world and be prepared for people who have nothing and never wanted to put any hard work in to go to any lengths to take your things!

Last I heard that he was in a wheelchair....but he was probably on some kind of con!!!

its illegal for a forang to own land here so you dug your own grave IMO and so what lots of people get screwed in business everywhere in world. I have been a couple of times through trusting someone you just move on.

[MegaRanter]

I left Thailand last august but have visited twice. I came in 98 and I lived all the life a young man could in Thailand. I was 29. I got married in 99 and my business really took off in 2000, I once had three cars made that same year in my garage, my wife does my manicure,and I had two Burmese maids, I bought a house on mortgage, and 18 credit cards. Life was super great, I seriously cheated, Thai women really go after me with a vengeance. But business went south with china taking over what we used to do, the rest we destroyed ourselves, business and marriage.

I knocked up my gf while divorce was pending, did my first visa run in 12 years, to kl, got 3 months, second one was august, went to vientienne, the counter women showed me a list of countries they could not issue to, I tried to explain,about pending divorce, pregnant gf, still had a valid work permit, she says can not, then I lost it, verbally, had to be escorted to the gate. I made up my mind before reaching that gate. My car was parked across the border, I had no luggage with me. I bought a one way ticket to Lagos. Two weeks later my son was born, I was not there. I came back after one month,gave away my stuff, closed my office, took my gf and my boy on Emirates home. We now live in Abuja and it's quite better than Bangkok for me at this point in my life,

I was compromising on a lot of things while I lived there.

[MegaRanter]

In Bangkok, I comprised on the kind of friends I had, English plumbers that sell stuff on eBay, nigerians that I ll not associate ith back home, I had one Aussie architect pal, but we just drank at The Office, chased tails. My ex was my only true friend till ........ Here in Abuja, I get invited to diplomatic dinners, and most of my friend are professionals.

My family love my gf and son and I drive a range rover in a city full of corrupt rich people and no traffic.

Gf does not speak two words of English, and she thinks this city is much safer than bkk. She worked at the inland revenue in soi aree, she has her hands full at the moment with her tiger, and we plan to visit bkk in may as tourists for two weeks.

I can't imagine myself living in Thailand but who knows I might retire there in 30 years time or not.

The expats here are younger and happier, I know some Germans with Thai wives, one was born here, found his tidal in hua hin.

Any Tv members in Abuja?

Edited April 20, 2012 by MegaRanter

[blossombkk]

Do you ever sense that the reluctance to leave arises from an ability to accept that the 'game' is lost? It's rarely ever a blow out that causes it, but rather small incremental events that one compensates for and which act to delay the inevitable. And then finally, it becomes too much and the decision is made.

I believe it is unfair to ridicule those that have made the decision as they have at least thought it out. There are folks like me that are in denial. Oh it's not as if anything bad has happened, but its general behaviour stuff, like my personal relationship that isn't really going anywhere,with one pushing for the purchase of a home and the other wavering and being indecisive about making a commitment. it's not Thailand, but the mindset of the person. I detest the animal cruelty, the poor environmental conditions, the corruption, the bureaucracy and the lack of career opportunities. I'd probably feel the same way in some other countries so it isn't specific to Thailand. I'm in the grey zone, nether in, nor out. watching and waiting. To be honest, I have my eye on Burma and opportunities there.

You know how we always say, wow if I had known what I know now, and had the money and experience I have now back when was a kid, I'd have had it made? Well, for some of us, thats what Burma is. A seductive nymph beckons just as Thailand did for some.

This is how I felt 8 years ago about leaving Thailand and moving to Laos. I made the move and looking back it was the best decision of my life. I bought land here when it was very cheap and if I lose it in the future it wont hurt. Next year I will apply for citizenship which is far easier here than in Thailand The good thing is - Thailand is still just over the border and I now enjoy using it as a holiday/shopping/golfing destination. I would say go for it instead of thinking what might've been. I only wish I had bought more land when I had the opportunity.

Laos?!?! could you share with us some of the highlights of living in our neighboring country? last time i was there there was plenty of landscape (i guess it's still there) but not much otherwise.

[charliealex]

World education rankings: which country does best at reading, maths and science?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html

[Berkshire]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

This is absolutely spot on, Jurgen.

[Kananga]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

I disagree. It is more than possible to have an intelligent discussion with people sharing the same culture and still communicate at a high level with people from another culture. In fact it is my opinion that it is not a great sign of intelligence to think that you can't. Just because you can do one, does not prove an inability to do the other. With your logic it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people sharing the same culture, or if they can then they are unable to communicate with people from another culture as well, which is a preposterous notion to say the least.

[nietzche]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

This is absolutely spot on, Jurgen.

Berkshire, this is not spot on. I have also spent time in West Africa. This region is poorer than Thailand, however, there is a greater focus in this region on education than there is here. No one is debating that Thai's are amongst the nicest people (on the surface) that you are likely to meet. The point is that people here in general place a higher value on money than they do education. I originally came to Thailand through a college buddy back in the U.S. who was Thai and currently teaches in a university in Bangkok. He comes from a wealthy family and he is more critical about the poor state of the Thai educational system than any farang you will ever meet.

When we speak about "intelligent" conversation, we speak about the general knowledge that is gained through a system that awards those who study hard and achieve a high level of education and knowledge.

The major problem here in Thailand in regards to this is that the society is not constructed in a way that rewards those who work hard and gain a high level of education and knowledge. It rewards those who are cunning, and cheat their way to the top. This is also prevalent in the U.S., but the former usually comes before the latter.

This is probably a major reason why many Thai's care very little about mastering a subject that they study. As in this society it is not necessary to gain "success".

[nietzche]

I've lived here continuously for about 6 years now, and I plan to return to the US later this year...possibly July/August.

The main reason I'm leaving is education for my daughter, who is (you might guess!) 6 years old . I can't afford the top notch schools here, and even if I could, I believe FREE schools back home are better than the ones here.

I'd have probably already departed if certain family issues (ie Mom) didn't exist. Other reasons i'm leaving are:

Food: I used to be very curious about various Thai foods and enjoy trying new tastes. Now, more and more, the things everyone is eating around me just looks disgusting.

Sports: I miss cheering on the local teams back home. College basketball, baseball, even high school sports, football, etc. I just haven't been able to get into the sports here. I've tried..attending many many TPL football matches but I miss my sports.

Magazines, Newspapers, Books.

Good television.

Weather that is conducive to outdoor exercise during daylight hours.

That's about it.

You are totally wrong about the schools- the best fee paying sｃｈｏｏｌｓ here are equal to almost any in the world-certainly better than the free ones back home.

Good TV-？？！！ you mean find a good TV show and wait one week before you　ｃａｎ　ｗａｔｃｈ　ｔｈｅ　ｎｅｘｔ　ｅｐｉｓｏｄｅ？？！！　　ＤＶＤＳ，　ｐａｎｔｉｐ！

You are comparing apples to oranges. You cannot compare the best fee paying schools in one county, with a free school in another country????

If you want to draw a comparison, compare the government schools in Thailand with the government schools in the UK, and U.S.

and the best fee paying schools in Thailand, with the best fee paying schools in the UK, and U.S

The man was clearly referring to Thai gov schools.

As for the t.v. - There are only 100 "real" channels with the True Visions platinum package. Back in the U.S, you get 400 channels for the same price.

I have a daughter who has taught and been deputy head in international schools on 3 continents and it is her opinion that international schools are inferior to state schools in Scotland. Not having been a teacher I would accept her valuation ahead of any poster less qualified

Pastiche, I went to primary and secondary school in Scotland. I went the college and Graduate school in the U.S. I agree with you 100%. I am planning to return to the U.K. next year to do a Phd. The educational system in the U.K. is in my experience better than the U.S. (probably anywhere else in the world).

[flying]

- The lack of education amongst even the most educated Thais. I miss having intelligent discussion with people outside of the internet.

Just curious how fluent are you in Thai language, reading, writing?

[nietzche]

- The lack of education amongst even the most educated Thais. I miss having intelligent discussion with people outside of the internet.

Just curious how fluent are you in Thai language, reading, writing?

Had a Thai tutor back in NY for 3 months before I moved here. Had a Thai tutor 2 hours/day for 6 months after I first arrived. The only people I know here are Thai. I'm pretty fluent. Just curious, how fluent are you in the Thai language, reading, writing?

[StreetCowboy]

- The lack of education amongst even the most educated Thais. I miss having intelligent discussion with people outside of the internet.

Just curious how fluent are you in Thai language, reading, writing?

Had a Thai tutor back in NY for 3 months before I moved here. Had a Thai tutor 2 hours/day for 6 months after I first arrived. The only people I know here are Thai. I'm pretty fluent. Just curious, how fluent are you in the Thai language, reading, writing?

Do you want a ruler for that?

[nietzche]

- The lack of education amongst even the most educated Thais. I miss having intelligent discussion with people outside of the internet.

Just curious how fluent are you in Thai language, reading, writing?

Had a Thai tutor back in NY for 3 months before I moved here. Had a Thai tutor 2 hours/day for 6 months after I first arrived. The only people I know here are Thai. I'm pretty fluent. Just curious, how fluent are you in the Thai language, reading, writing?

Do you want a ruler for that?

I think a meter-stick would be more appropriate.

[flying]

Had a Thai tutor back in NY for 3 months before I moved here. Had a Thai tutor 2 hours/day for 6 months after I first arrived. The only people I know here are Thai. I'm pretty fluent. Just curious, how fluent are you in the Thai language, reading, writing?

Cool as I said was just curious......myself? still learning....always. structure still messes me up which I guess is *our* accent

The reason I was curious is I imagine it is very hard communication wise if after awhile a degree of understanding is not there.

Could be isolating but then again perhaps preferred by some.

You did well to be fluent in 9 months.

Edited April 21, 2012 by flying

[Gary A]

I can easily see why some people have left, want to leave, or should leave. No way would I want to live in a place that makes me miserable. Of course it does appear that some people simply enjoy being miserable and would be miserable no matter where they live.

Airliners do leave as well as arrive. As we say in Thailand, UP TO YOU!

[maxme]

Yet after a batch of Chang, everything seems crystal clear. What a dubious statement, an attempt to project your own misery on others.

[theblether]

The majority of us are in flux, I have been an expat three times though my primary business now keeps me in Scotland. I dont expect to end my days in Scotland, I know that International travel will always be on the cards for me and I may end up settling in Thailand for the majority of the time.

I use the word majority as it does apply to most TV members, if there was a major problem in Thailand tomorrow the majority of expats could easily up sticks and move on, the minority would lose everything.

Expats should always have an escape route from any country they are in, and where possible spread their assets around. The OP will most likely make another couple of moves to new countries in the future, the younger you start in the expat lifestyle the more certain that is what it will become, a transient lifestyle for your whole life.

People who have moved to Thailand in later life after spending all their working life in their own country dont have that breadth of experience, and many tend to put all their eggs in one basket. Bad move.

Spread the risk, and have the exit plan in place, you never know what is around the corner.

[TommoPhysicist]

I use the word majority as it does apply to most TV members, if there was a major problem in Thailand tomorrow the majority of expats could easily up sticks and move on, the minority would lose everything.

I would dispute that!

The majority of us have wives (and step-children) without Visas to stay in our home countries, and many without the ability to get said Visa. Yes I suppose I could 'up sticks' and abandon my wife and step-daughter ........ not very nice though.

Edited April 21, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[KeyserSoze01]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a Thai local about; international political relations, international financial markets, history, theology, science, astronomy, health & fitness, or for that matter, anything beyond the desire for som tum every 3 hours?

Nothing stereotypical or cultural about any of these topics, but I doubt seriously you have found any Thai that has the vaguest notion about any of them.

[nietzche]

I use the word majority as it does apply to most TV members, if there was a major problem in Thailand tomorrow the majority of expats could easily up sticks and move on, the minority would lose everything.

I would dispute that!

The majority of us have wives (and step-children) without Visas to stay in our home countries, and many without the ability to get said Visa. Yes I suppose I could 'up sticks' and abandon my wife and step-daughter ........ not very nice though.

I know nothing on the subject of attaining visas for the Thai significant other, but is it really that difficult if you plan well in advance?

Surely if everything is legit and above board, it is not so much of a problem as it is a long process?

Just curious if anyone out there has went through this successfully or unsuccessfully?

[maxme]

The majority of us are in flux, I have been an expat three times though my primary business now keeps me in Scotland. I dont expect to end my days in Scotland, I know that International travel will always be on the cards for me and I may end up settling in Thailand for the majority of the time.

I use the word majority as it does apply to most TV members, if there was a major problem in Thailand tomorrow the majority of expats could easily up sticks and move on, the minority would lose everything.

Expats should always have an escape route from any country they are in, and where possible spread their assets around. The OP will most likely make another couple of moves to new countries in the future, the younger you start in the expat lifestyle the more certain that is what it will become, a transient lifestyle for your whole life.

People who have moved to Thailand in later life after spending all their working life in their own country dont have that breadth of experience, and many tend to put all their eggs in one basket. Bad move.

Spread the risk, and have the exit plan in place, you never know what is around the corner.

Though we all have different reasons for being in LOS, it's undeniable that many are here because of their girlfriends/wives or boyfriends/husbands (happen to know a number of western women that have Thai spouses). There are also a number of factors that keep them here.

- The spouse isn't able to get a visa (unfair as it seems but the criteria for procuring a visa is based on the level of education among other things thus hard for many Thais to get the 10 year visa which is a necessity for visiting the US or England and sometimes they just give 14 days which is beyond me)

- I've heard that some couples don't enjoy Europe's cold climate and hospitality. It's easier to face xenophobic Thais than xenophobic farangs perhaps.

- The spouse's economy forces a sort of a lockdown being unable to move. A lot of teachers in Thailand has loans that must be paid in full before they can even think of moving somewhere.

If you come with no strings attached, then I might agree with you and certainly you don't need a girl to enjoy this country but it does give a more detailed insight how the country works thus tell how one can survive in it.

I think whether you are young or old, strings attached or not, surveying and careful planning do ease the transition as does it with moving to this country. It's still a young democracy which means your options are quite limited but with an insight how things work and some brainstorming you can make it a lot easier on yourself.

[maxme]

Correction. It's a necissity for Thais to procure a visa before entering the US, the UK etc etc.

The visa validity duration is determined by the applicant's education/work.

Though these are just a few examples of many, the reasons for leaving or staying may be more of a grayzone.

[StreetCowboy]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a Thai local about; international political relations, international financial markets, history, theology, science, astronomy, health & fitness, or for that matter, anything beyond the desire for som tum every 3 hours?

Nothing stereotypical or cultural about any of these topics, but I doubt seriously you have found any Thai that has the vaguest notion about any of them.

Thank goodness I don't have 'interesting' conversations with you!

I find that most Thai taxi drivers have a better knowledge of the details and current state of affairs in European football than most well-educated and well-travelled Europeans have of even the basics of Sepak Takraw.

SC

[flying]

I know nothing on the subject of attaining visas for the Thai significant other, but is it really that difficult if you plan well in advance?

Surely if everything is legit and above board, it is not so much of a problem as it is a long process?

Just curious if anyone out there has went through this successfully or unsuccessfully?

Well I kind of went the other way............... years ago brought my Thai then gf to the USA

Got married & stayed. Did the whole green card route...2 year...then 5 year...then citizenship.

Now we are in the process of moving to Thailand to live full time.

The problem I see for folks coming the other way is $$$

Having gone through the process I can understand why there are so many illegal aliens in the US

It costs a hell of a lot of money by the time your done.

Even initially you have to show that you are above a certain income capable of supporting an alien.

You need to show they will not be a burden on the US while going through green card process.

Then you have to pay for the process...again not cheap at all. In the days when it was run by the State Department

I hear it was not too bad. These days it is run by the Department Of Homeland Security....Expensive!

So in that scenario someone who is already assimilated in Thailand has possibly not been having the income to easily

pull it off & that is just for a wife. If they also need to bring children???? In the end it will come down to money as so many things do.

[Kananga]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a Thai local about; international political relations, international financial markets, history, theology, science, astronomy, health & fitness, or for that matter, anything beyond the desire for som tum every 3 hours?

Nothing stereotypical or cultural about any of these topics, but I doubt seriously you have found any Thai that has the vaguest notion about any of them.

Thank goodness I don't have 'interesting' conversations with you!

I find that most Thai taxi drivers have a better knowledge of the details and current state of affairs in European football than most well-educated and well-travelled Europeans have of even the basics of Sepak Takraw.

SC

Maybe if Sepak Takraw was a millionth as interesting as football the rest of the world would have an interest.

[JAFO]

I have found over my years here that no one comes here for the same reasons. Sure there are commonalities but all have different reasons. I have also that found that UK folks vehemently defend their move to Thailand far more then US folks. As I continue to read it appears(Based on posts I have absolutely no hands on experience living in the UK) living in the UK is pretty bad. I am a US citizen(California) and am moving back to the US in a few weeks. I have been here 5+ years and have seen enough to know that while there are many things I like here what you give up is far to great.

During my stay here I have come to find that it is hard to find quality people to build friendships with. IMHO there are far more "runaways" here due to a bad life back in their home countries and this behavior is carried with them. Its also interesting in the fact something had been gnawing at me and I was really unable to put my finger on it until I went to get my Visa to leave. The entire 90 day check in thing is actually somewhat humiliating as it feels like you are checking with your Thai parole officer and if you miss you are in violation and stand to be fined or deported. 5+ years back when I arrived this was not a big deal but as time has gone on its really an annoyance and one you cannot insulate yourself from. Again comparing my life in US to here, there are some hard negatives living in Thailand that as a friend stated "Just cannot be balanced out". I am not going to list them as most certainly someone will cut and paste and take out of context.

I will say In the beginning I enjoyed what I perceived as "More freedom" here and less bureaucracy but as time goes on that plays against you. I believe most people have basic expectations on how things should be and you quickly find that those perceived freedoms also allow bad behaviors where a great number of folks can act like morons(Thais included) and there is virtually no enforcement or path for one to take to stop it. There is a lot of interference from the government to order things you need or want to buy or working the type of jobs you may want to. There is a ton of discrimination here Thais to Thais in the work place. Just read an ad on the internet and in the paper. As an expat(who does not want to marry and have everything in his Thai wifes name)you cannot establish a loan for a home. Sure developers will float you a 5 year note but you will be done. But in general you are forced to pay everything in cash which all seems great until you find that you cannot leverage your equity or assets to get cash should something arise where that is required. Good luck trying to sell your place should something require you to exit Thailand. Some houses never sell. Loans for used homes are very hard to secure. You are also not free of cheaply made houses and the neighbor who decided to open up a noodle or karaoke restaurant next door to your house. You also cannot own the land you have your house built on. While the US has its faults for sure at least it has an infrastructure and some discipline and your neighborhoods are zoned to control inconsiderate people and you have a system to take action should that happen. Here its who ever gives the police more money prevails.

One thing very clear to me is it is cheap to live poor and expensive as hell to live a normal middle class like most grownups want to do. Moving here on a fixed income is something I would never recommend unless you left your money in your bank and a path back to your home country. Things are far to unstable here to call it "Home". There are far to many variables that can take you from comfortable to broke in no time and if you are past your employment years you have no means to supplement your income.

As for why I am moving back, the major reason is I can buy a nicer house on some land(in my name), own a better car(for less money), Work in any field I want, buy better quality clothes for the same price and have a better living lifestyle then I do here for about the same overall cost and with less friction and I do not feel limited. It is simple as that. I am not saying Thailand is bad and a horrible place, it may work for some. I am moving for me and where I am at California is simply better. I mean its why we moved around right? I saw opportunities but after I landed and lived it and I dove into Thailand and as I peeled the onion back it gets a bit hard to manage basic daily life. I did not come here to live on a 100 baht a day like a peasant. While some find it fun, it wears thin very very fast. I moved here as I saw what appeared to be a better place and I wanted to come see. For me its not. No harm no foul. Thailand is a great vacation destination

[mikebell]

Time flies when you're happy - I've been here six or seven years. I'm retired; bought a house/car out of burning my bridges in UK. I go back for two weeks a year to visit my daughters/grandsons. After four nights I am wishing my life away until I can come back to a land of warmth/pretty girls/no conflicts/cheap living/no 'elf 'n safety issues. I'm loving it.

[KeyserSoze01]

Making a move to another country is easy, noooooooo problem, BUT over coming the differences is another question. You need balls and be very understanding that your upbringing is waaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

Many can't handle it, many cannot ignore the differences, you are the folk that move on. Nooo problem, just move on to find something you can deal with.

Big point here ! What a number of posters here call "intelligent discussion" is a discussion with people sharing the same culture, the same stereotypes. It just shows their inability to communicate at a high level with people from a foreign culture. Not a great sign of intelligence in my opinion.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a Thai local about; international political relations, international financial markets, history, theology, science, astronomy, health & fitness, or for that matter, anything beyond the desire for som tum every 3 hours?

Nothing stereotypical or cultural about any of these topics, but I doubt seriously you have found any Thai that has the vaguest notion about any of them.

Thank goodness I don't have 'interesting' conversations with you!

I find that most Thai taxi drivers have a better knowledge of the details and current state of affairs in European football than most well-educated and well-travelled Europeans have of even the basics of Sepak Takraw.

SC

I don't consider talking about football to be intelligent conversation. Quite the contrary in fact. But to each their own, as is quite the case between you and I.

[SabaiBKK]

i've been a visitor in thailand for over 20 years, spending several months each year, and then in october 2003, i took the plunge and decided to come live in thailand ... I really enjoyed the last 9 years living here but I had to take a big decision when i got married and had my first child. my wife also has a 9 years old daughter and now the big question arised .... do I want my children to be educated in thailand? CERTAINLY NOT ! there is no quality education in thailand , no matter how much you pay, my oldest daughter goes to a private school and has been an excellent student , by Thai satandards straight A's and B+ and intensive english program taught by farangs or philipinos .... nonetheless, her english level is terrible, she still has the same level than 4 years ago as the program is still the same, she had no clue that water boils at 100°C and freezes at 0°C and other things that you learn when you are 6 years ol in the west.

so appart from the OP reasons for leaving which for the most parts I totally agree with, and everyday it takes its toll on someone who sincerely and deeply loves Thailand and will always will, its very hard to see the country you love going down the drain as thailand does.

but really my main reason to leave is for my kids. i don't want them to be taught to respect the rich and look down the poor, I don't want them to be taught that other people of other skin colors or countries are untermensh, I don't want them to be taught not to question authority and not to use their brain to reason. I don't want them to think that only money can achieve their happyness. I don't want them to be taught that cheating is normal and corruption is a way of life, i don't want them to be taught that doing 80% of something you have to do is good enough. and I could go on for hours about the reasons why raising children in thailand is hopeless ....

if it was only me and my wife with no children , i would stay, even if on a daily basis i really get annoyed by the news and the politic and economic shenanigans. but the life here is quite sweet if you just stay oblivious of the behind the scenes.

[spiritrace]

Nietzche, what you described was the US as well as most countries. England is not the England I visited 20 years ago, the US has taken a similar direction. All those things you described and more exist at all levels of the civilian population and the government.

Some locations are more pervasive than others. I spent 25 in the military and watched a lot of countries change. All for the worse. It is just the nature of humanity to constantly change. The way things used to be just can not exist.

It is a matter of choosing where the change least affects each of us. I know the corruption in Thailand is there. It is here in my own small town USA. I can't change it as just one person. Many others choose not to participate in making it change.

So I will just give a little time of my life to Thailand and a little time of my life here in the US. That's about the only way I can deal with all the negativity going on around me. Regardless of where I am, it goes on. Those who are vulnerable are punished. Those of elite positions continue to take advantage of everything and everyone around them.If you exterminate the ones causing the problems, others will just take their place. It's a never ending cycle. Just to different degrees where ever you are.

I will isolate myself from exposure to most of it and take measures to avoid it and deal with it when it comes my way. Our time on earth is short and we have to choose how we spend that time.

You may find things have changed at home and feel the frustration that many of us feel. We just live our lives as best we can and avoid those things that give us grief.