Mushroom Farming

[ray23]

Ray,

you should rethink that labor number

first of all, you will need only around 2700 bags/month ( on your current 16000 x2)...

that is calculating 6 days work week, 300thb a day?

would require producing only around 100 bags a day.

so, i would think your weekly wage wouldnt run that high, as you wouldnt need to produce 24 days a month those bags to cover your supply.

alternatively, say your worker should be able to produce 300 bags a day, would only need less than 1/2 your calculated wage.

on the other hand:

i would be vary about the quality expectations, especially in the beginning, with not having extensive experience. where we buy, it seems to have about 5% waste, i am sure if i were to make, i would expect to have about 3x at the start. that number sure to improve gradually.

oh, and of course, we 'talked' about more frequent rotating of the bags, to even out production. every 6 month just not maximizing your potential earning, especially if a worker is involved, and also if there is enough buyers to sell to.

i came to think that ideally every 3 months should see new bags, ideally every months changing part, but keeping no bags longer than 3 months...ok, maybe 4 months, but that is top. by then if they are good enough should cover investment + 30-50% profit on the money...just not economical to leave the bags 2 more month to take up the place, in hope to squeeze out another 10-15% max...

sorry for the long post, just a few thoughts.

Well I wanted others thoughts, so that was perfect. An odd position now. To much in theory for one person and not enough for two. With the labor market arounf Udon you would be hard pressed to find part time work.

But by breaking the need to 100 bags a day. I believe the brother with a llittle organazation could do that

Marketing that much remains a big if, for that volume

We plan on five months at best for rotation after that you are really just waisting water.

The Col. has been a great help giving me a clear picture of making the bags. That is where I would try to learn if I should go forward. I has told us about a premix we can buy, Thta would more then likely runs up to 6 baht.

Here is where the real problem is for us, getting them when we need them. We were supposed to get a delivery in Nov. didn't happen stiill hasn't happened. Now set for Jan 3. The guy produces the best mushrooms we have gotten thus far.

Empty houses don't make money

We bouhgt 1K from a different local guy and that was all that he could supply, Even with the Jan delievery if it happens we will still need another 2K on Nong Faa in Feb, We can buy from othre producers. But, the reality is their product is not very good.

Then we will begin ordering Khon Khao,

The farm was given to my wifes brother, He is a one man operation, with occassional help from me when I'm bored.

I will try to present the idea to him if he can find time to make 100 a day. We have been thinking 1000's . Breaking it down the way you did, seems to make it more of a possibility

Thanks

[ray23]

Intersting he believes he could do a 100 a day. Sure would help his bottom line.

[tingtong]

there you go!

even if it cost him 6thb a bag using the premix you mentioned, vs. the 8thb a bag you pay now, it is considerable proposal already...

also there is the added benefit of not depending on another maker to time your replacements.

this later one was a problem for us in the past too, and probably will be in future as well, you cant just order and expect it be ready unfortunately, often it is week/s if not a month away from the planned date. one can only hope they get your time right.

[ray23]

It's time to dig back throuhg this thread and see what I need to do to change thinbgs around so he can do his own.

Our changed in watering worked but, not enough to make a difference. We did a light mist three times day. Now we will try no water for three days.

Less may be best LOL

One thing for sure the spores are still in there, a warm up in the weather would proabably help a lot..

[teletiger]

Also Ray, the cost of "replacing" 16K bags twice a year would come to 256K Baht. You wouldn't count the original cost of the 16K bags in a replacement scenario.

Regards.

[tingtong]

i think that is a wording error only...as he still will need 32.000 bags ( 2x16k) a year, so, the number seem to be correct.

[teletiger]

384K Baht is enough to replace 48K bags.

Anyone know where to get Nang Fa bags in Chiang Mai? The guy I planned to use has just stopped...

Regards.

[ray23]

Well we finally got to see an active operation, seeing the packets made a lot of the mystery was removed

Tha packing mahine, a hand scoop made from a large soda bottle a final tap with a beer bottle put the rings and caps on.

The mix of subtrate it's shovel in t cement miser then brought to the packing ladies. They have been doing this for years and at peak production anfd full staff the can do a 1,000 a day not fancy. But. it works We won't need a mxing machine as we will order our subtrate premixed, So we nedd to cut a cola bottle for a scoop adn find a beer bottle

[ray23]

On to the ovens they place the bottles in and then burn wood underneath for six hours, to heat them up. What this is an old fashion water tank it can do 600 bottles at a time

This a small modern style water tank, same thing burn wood undernaeth for about six and heat um up. You can see the packets inside cooling. The small one can do about 400

[ray23]

This si where they put the spores in on the table, you ,might note this is a dirt floor. Basically a tin roof and that is about it. The only thing thye do to sanitize the operation is to wash their hands. with Alchohol. What can I say this may look primitive but it is a very big operation compared to ours. They have years of experience at at it and it works. They were doing Khon Khao they showed us two bottles of spores one fresh and one prepared. I'm sure I'm clear on this, But, the lady said they heat the outside of the bottle with a lighter and that activates the spores some how. Anyone got any idea about that?

[ray23]

This is where things get interesting storage for about a month before they are put into houses for production. It's not clear to me if they hvae to be standing upright like this or they can be laid on their sides. When they get here the spores have been added about 20 per bottle then the caps put back on. This building is covered with a time roof no side walls

This is the crew that was working that day very nice people

[ray23]

Well when you see hands on it clears up a lot, far less complicated then I beleived it to be. You can do this without buying 100's of thousand of baht of equipement. In the end the most expensive theng I will have to do is build an area to store the bottles before putting them in the houses for production. We domn't need a packing machine, or mixer.

The Col being prrident man advised me to start small and that is what I'm going to do. We wills tart with 50 gallon can, that the lid can be removed from. Punch a hole in that lid Place something in the bottom to keep the bottles above the water. You add water to the botttom bring it to a boil. Once stem comes out the top you keep it steaming for two hours. You can do a 80 in a barrel, maybe a but more. Total cost 600 baht.

We can use gas in this operation, we just happen to not one but, two extra stoves to do that with and the gas bottles already. So a bit iof a frame work to sit the barrel on and your in business.

The premixed substrate is 290 baht a for a 50 Kilo bag and that will make about 80 at a cost of 3,63 baht per packet. The spores cost 8 baht a bottle I don't know how many in a bottle.

We will set up an area with mesquito netting the add the spores to the packet.

Then its all about storage and shelving. No idea on that cost yet. I noted that the ones we saw stored were sitting on bamboo weaved areas and supports so yuo could hav multiple layers.

I;m sure we will make mistakes, e whihc is a darn good reaon not go out and buy a bunch of equipment, while your learning. I have no desire to sale to anyone else. That involves a lot more money, pickups ect. Learning to do qaulity ones for ourslves is just fine.

I thnk the first ones we will do next month will be Khon Khao. Gives us time to learn and we will be ready for the hot season. We have put in an order for 2K already incase we mess ours up. If we get lucky then we will make our own from then on. If not we will keep experimenting till we get it right.

[Packdee]

Ray,

Storage and shelving during incubation period the bags can be standing upright or laid on their sides.

You can put them in your existing places but the earlier made bags will be fully colonized first.

So have to plan how to move these bags to the fruiting house with minimum work.

Photo credit : http://www.jrfarm108.com/index.php?mo=3&art=586066

[Packdee]

Ray,

One bottle of grain spawn can be used to spawn up to 100 pasteurized substrate bags.

We do not buy the fully colonized bottles because they must be used up as soon as possible otherwise the grains will stick together.

After fully colonized the grain spawn bottle should be shaken one day before and again before using it.

We can store the fully colonized grain spawn bottles in refrigerator. If the grain stick together and too hard to shake we can use a long screw driver wiped with alcohol to break apart the grain.

The flame of a lighter or an alcohol lamp will be used to burn the bottle neck and mouth to get rid mold or other spore that we don't need them to drop into our pasteurized substrate bag.

Photo credit: http://www.jrfarm108.com/index.php?lite=article&qid=584974

[Packdee]

์Nang Fa originally come from Bhutan, This mushroom loves cold weather.

But the problem, we get cold and dry wind from mainland China. In lower temperature, the same Relative Humidity (RH) has less water content in the air.

The mushrooms still need high water content in the air to support their growth.

The fruiting house should be sealed with plastic sheet and spayed with water more often than during other season.

Keep the wall and the floor soaked with water but not in the mushroom bags.

The water accumulated in mushroom bags shoul be drained out.

If using city supply water which has chlorine we must store store water in a container until no smell of chlorine or droping few drops of Lao Khoa will get rid it very quickly..

The raw water from open pond or fish pond is not good for the mushrooms.

Photo credit: http://www.jrfarm108.com/index.php?mo=18&display=view_single&pid=801478

[ray23]

Thanks Col. that clears up a lot. Using the methid you suggested we could do a 960 a week 160 a day, 4 hrs 2 hours heat time heat time two batches That would fill one set of our shelving, as long as we can lay them on their sides.

That explains the lighter that really threw me.

We have storage tanks already for water, the brother didn't listen close enough, actually three of them. So that is an easy change to make. Using the mister set up easy enough, that is carried on our back puts out a very fine mist water on the ground again easy enough. already have a seperate pump we can use for that.

We have taken the chlorine out of the water for fish holding tanks for some time now. The product we use clears he chlorine in baout 45 mins, So we are actually already sit up for it. Maybe I better start making those phone calls instead of the brother selective hearing (laughter) Sometimes I will take over the watering from him for a few days. sounds like it might be time again. We have 2200 liters of declorinated water just sitting ther right now

So we are actually pretty close to getting started, in time for Khon Khao I think.T I recehceked the math your right 32.000 at 8 baht 256.000. At 6 baht would it be 192,000. 64,000 a year. But more importantly gettign them when thy aer needed

Man we have never seen prodution like that. That is simply beautiful

[Packdee]

Ray,

The premixed substrate is very good for mushroom grower who start to make his own substrate bags because it eliminates the problem from poor nutrient additive.
There are two different formulas.
KAT301 is the premixed substrate for Nang Fa, Jew's Ear, Pink Oyster and Abalone.
KAT305 is for Khon Khao, Khon Dam, Hed Lom, Yanangi, Lingzhi, Shiitake and Lion's Mane.

The base material is rubber tree sawdust supplemented with wheat bran, rice bran, enzyme starch, brewer’s spent grain, ground soybean pulp okara, dolomite, phosphate rock, etc.

The experienced mushroom grower prefers to mix his own substrate because it is cheaper.

Premixed substrate by Anon Biotech (http://www.anonbiotec.com/anon301_305.html).

More photos.

[ray23]

Thanks Col. we will stick to the premix while learning

[Packdee]

Premixed substrate by Anon Biotech (http://www.anonbiotec.com/anon301_305.html) (Continued)

[Packdee]

Premixed substrate by Anon Biotech (http://www.anonbiote...on301_305.html) (Continued)

The rubber tree sawdust is mixed with wheat bran, rice bran, enzyme starch, brewer’s spent grain, ground soybean pulp okara, dolomite, phosphate rock and others.
Then water with BioOne (a group of selected microorganisms) is spayed to increase the raw material moisture up to 45 to 47% and start composing the substrate.

.

To prevent heat accumulation, the substrate is piled up in formation that the heat can be released easily.

[teletiger]

What a mine of information you are Col. Thank you.

Regards.

[Packdee]

Premixed substrate by Anon Biotech (http://www.anonbiote...on301_305.html) (Continued)

The composing substrate is turned over once a day to release the heat and change the position of substrate.
After composing 8 to10 days it will be completely composed.

[Packdee]

Premixed substrate by Anon Biotech (http://www.anonbiote...on301_305.html) (Continued)

Packing

Prof. Dr. Anon Auetragul and his premixed substrate for exporting to Taiwan.

Mushroom Development in Thailand

Mushroom cultivation in Thailand had been practiced since time immemorial like Bean mushroom(Coprinus fimentarius) cultivation in the Northern region,

Straw mushroom cultivation (Volvariella volvacea) in the Central region and Fan Mushroom(Schizophylum commune) cultivation in the Southern region.

But the using new technology in producing mushroom pure culture and spawn was started in 1946 by Prof.Dr. Karn Jaranavicharn

who has been honored by Thai as “Great Guru for Mushroom in Thailand” .

More story...

http://www.anonbiotec.com/eng/mushroom_development.html

[Packdee]

Mushroom cultivation can be summarized with the following major steps:

Step 1. About mushrooms
Step 2. Producing PDA medium
Step 3. Selecting tissue culture
Step 4. Multiplying spawn on sorghum seeds
Step 5. Producing substrate bags
Step 6. Pasteurizing bags
Step 7. Inoculating bags with sorghum seeds
Step 8. Incubating bags
Step 9. Opening bags
Step 10. Maintaining and monitoring

Read more..

[Packdee]

Thai Biotechnology Research and Development Office is responsible to maintain pure mushroom culture.
There are many different strains of mushrooms grown in this region.
The culture is prepared in agar slant tube for mailing, 50 Bath each + shipping.

More detail.. (in Thai)

[Packdee]

Read detail...

[ray23]

Well no matter what I said I couldn't get the brother to use the Cols advice. we went for o to1 kilos days to 16 kilos a day in five days. How did that happen I took over and did what the Col, siad. Sometimes it's just easier to do it yuorself then trying to get someone to understand. That being said it's still ride season and I'm going

They say seeing is believing we shall see.

[ray23]

Looks lonely doens't it

This is our first oven. Brother wanted to use wood, so we did a trial run kept a fire going for five hours. The water inside kept boiling for about 30 Mins after the fire went out. We will do three more of these two to cook with each while letting the others cool. When they cool we will add the spores, Haven't set that up yet.

Hoping to do a 160 a day using these,

I wonder if fours hours on the fire would be enough?

Got to crawl before you can walk. That would be sufficient fot 1,000 a week

[teletiger]

Well, I'm confused. But hey, TIT.

Regards.

[ray23]

Me too, the idea is you heat water to point of steam pasturize the subtrate before adding spores. The you got about a 60 day wait before you can use them. So in the bottom of the barrel is a small amount of water.

The method I posted before required four hours of fire. Using gas would require two hours of steam. So cutting the difference to three hours was what I was hoping for.

for.

This will be our first try, So it will be a learning experience,

We added 2K more of Nong Faa excellent supply this time producing in three days. We arw running 16 Kilos day now, that sure feels good v compared to 0 product days. Have another 2K of Nong Faa coming next month. We will try to produce our own Khon Kao after that.