Manchester United

[bkkjames]

Not sure if you noticed Rix, the last two games coincidentally happened to be two of the most important of the year for us. Do you want me to go back to Milan away and say how lucky we were not to be down 3-0 at the half there? Tactics were / are wrong.

Fergies reliance on making the 70 min sub in hoping to steal it works fine generally against weaker (smaller) teams but too many times this year this has backfired. (lucky against city this year and lucky against villa last year). Luck has run out. Bayern tore us apart for most of the game.

I am not sure if you are suggesting that we have to agree with his every decision are you because of his record? Please don't cite the fact that we won the league the last 3 years and been in the CL final twice. Last year against Barca we got the tactics wrong and if it wasn't for a JT slip, we wouldn't have won that one either.

I am fan of SAF but would be nice to hear from him or Phelan - oops I got the tactics wrong.

That being said, I think we will do Bayern this weak and the world will be good again.

I wasn't commenting on tactics Jamie, i was contesting why having lost 2 important games, people are suddenly saying what a bad buy Owen was and how the manager got it wrong by not buying another striker.

The mistake wasn't buying Owen. The mistake was trusting that Berba was going to develop into the player we all expected him to be. He didn't. He hasn't. I blame Berba for that more than i blame SAF for not spending another 20 - 30m on another striker that might have been / should have been surplus to requirements.

First of all mate, my name is not Jamie, it's James. You can't honestly say that when we signed Owen at the start of the year two thoughts didn't go through your mind 1) This is who we bought to replace Tevez and Ronaldo? oh oh and 2) I wonder how long till he got injured.

We have been riding our luck since day one with Wayne - the gaffer gambled and lost. Sorry, he sits there and says Macheda, Welbeck , Diouf.... how many goals between them this year 2 or 3? Just own up to the fact (blame berba if you want but he was the same last year - so not getting rid of him or getting a reliable replacement lays at the feet of the gaffer) our over reliance on wayne has cost us.

It not the two most recent games you keep referring to, I think of games against Leeds, Villa, Burnley, LP, Chelsea, Fulham, AC Milan, CSKA, Wolfs..... shall I keep counting. Unless Wayne scores one or two it doesnt look good. What's that our defense has been injured all year - compared to others our Goals against is pretty good.

[carmine]

i think also that the season is too long now for Neville, Giggs and Scholes. SAF should be bring them on and subs, not rely on them to start and win games because there's no real depth in midfield coming through this year.

Not my team, or my thread chaps, but the thought of Arsenal or Chelsea winning the league gives me nightmares

[rixalex]

do you mean , you reckon that you should spend 50-60 m on a striker that may devolop into a player you expect him to be , in order to win the league,

as berbatov was 30 and you say another 20- 30+

No, i didn't mean that.

I meant another 20 - 30 m for another striker.

what was it that "we all expected him to be" as regards berbatov

This being the United thread, when i use "we" it's intended to mean United supporters (Manchester not West Ham ), who i think will know what i meant by "what we expected of Berba". I don't think you will find any United supporter who feels Berba has delivered what he promised - most obviously goals.

[rixalex]

First of all mate, my name is not Jamie, it's James.

Where i come from an "ee" gets slapped on to the end of most people's names, much as with the players - Giggsy, Scholesy etc. It's meant to infer friendliness is all. Apologies. Won't happen again.

[rixalex]

We have been riding our luck since day one with Wayne - the gaffer gambled and lost.

The true test of whether the gaffer lost comes as the end of the season, not now.

[StevieH]

First of all mate, my name is not Jamie, it's James.

Where i come from an "ee" gets slapped on to the end of most people's names, much as with the players - Giggsy, Scholesy etc. It's meant to infer friendliness is all. Apologies. Won't happen again.

to quote blackadder, "well, not that much anyway."

[StevieH]

this is interesting. same thing happens at anfield with the stewards.

The one about United's security firm – smart Alex or video nasty?

• Company under fire from fans uses old video message

• Stewards blocked anti-Glazer protest at Chelsea match

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/ap...glazer-protests

The security firm whose controversial stewarding of matches at Old Trafford has angered Manchester United fans is using a years‑old video message by Sir Alex Ferguson to boost its image. Ferguson's support of Controlled Event Solutions was apparently recorded in 2007 as part of its bid submission for security contracts at the 2010 World Cup.

But three years later it still has pride of place on the front page of the company's website. In a two-minute video message Ferguson says: "I know [CES's director-owners] Henry Kirkland and Mike Halligan very, very well. Solid, absolutely wonderful professionals. We are a team and they are part of that team. I include physios, doctors, coaches, my players and myself. We are 100% a team, otherwise we're never going to win the things we want to win. I hope when South Africa have the World Cup games, CES will be a part of that."

Whether Ferguson's message was intended for public consumption or simply for a private World Cup tender is unknown – CES could not be reached for comment yesterday. But the firm's reputation among a section of United's support has suffered with its handling of increasing anti-Glazer protests. A United spokesman said: "There are tens of thousands of United fans who turn up every week and have a very good relationship with CES."

CES's actions at United's 2-1 home defeat by Chelsea on Saturday, in which stewards and police blocked the Stretford End's upper-tier aisles to prevent anti-Glazer banners being hung, has prompted formal complaints from fans who claim it contravened the club's own stadium-safety policy. United say the blockage was necessary to fulfil its obligations to all supporters under the terms of the stadium safety licence.

[LeungKen]

There are a few doubters creeping into this thread, thankfully there are still many who are not fair-weather supporters & I for one will back Fergie, his players and staff to the hilt.

Call me delusional if you like, but I still think we can lift 2 more trophies this season.

Let me also remind those suffering memory loss of events 3 years ago.

Come on, cheer up. It’s not over yet.

If you're fearing the worst after the performances against Bayern and Chelsea then you only have to think back three years for inspiration. United were in the quarter-finals of the Champions League against AS Roma and were involved in a battle for the title with Chelsea.

Just like last week, United lost the away leg of the European tie 2-1 and didn’t play particularly well. Then there was a tricky Premier League game the following weekend at Portsmouth... which United also lost 2-1. Spooky, eh?

Read more from the Manchester United site here :-

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=...;newsid=6647859

[MSingh]

do you mean , you reckon that you should spend 50-60 m on a striker that may devolop into a player you expect him to be , in order to win the league,

as berbatov was 30 and you say another 20- 30+

No, i didn't mean that.

I meant another 20 - 30 m for another striker.

what was it that "we all expected him to be" as regards berbatov

This being the United thread, when i use "we" it's intended to mean United supporters (Manchester not West Ham ), who i think will know what i meant by "what we expected of Berba". I don't think you will find any United supporter who feels Berba has delivered what he promised - most obviously goals.

But we were " United " before you were ...

[MSingh]

First of all mate, my name is not Jamie, it's James.

Where i come from an "ee" gets slapped on to the end of most people's names, much as with the players - Giggsy, Scholesy etc. It's meant to infer friendliness is all. Apologies. Won't happen again.

Jamesy then, or Jimbo...

Jamie's a different name altogether though ot be fair..

[StevieH]

do you mean , you reckon that you should spend 50-60 m on a striker that may devolop into a player you expect him to be , in order to win the league,

as berbatov was 30 and you say another 20- 30+

No, i didn't mean that.

I meant another 20 - 30 m for another striker.

what was it that "we all expected him to be" as regards berbatov

This being the United thread, when i use "we" it's intended to mean United supporters (Manchester not West Ham ), who i think will know what i meant by "what we expected of Berba". I don't think you will find any United supporter who feels Berba has delivered what he promised - most obviously goals.

But we were " United " before you were ...

and sheffield had it before you lot did.

[NADTATIDA1]

There are a few doubters creeping into this thread, thankfully there are still many who are not fair-weather supporters & I for one will back Fergie, his players and staff to the hilt.

Call me delusional if you like, but I still think we can lift 2 more trophies this season.

Let me also remind those suffering memory loss of events 3 years ago.

Come on, cheer up. It's not over yet.

If you're fearing the worst after the performances against Bayern and Chelsea then you only have to think back three years for inspiration. United were in the quarter-finals of the Champions League against AS Roma and were involved in a battle for the title with Chelsea.

Just like last week, United lost the away leg of the European tie 2-1 and didn't play particularly well. Then there was a tricky Premier League game the following weekend at Portsmouth... which United also lost 2-1. Spooky, eh?

Read more from the Manchester United site here :-

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=...;newsid=6647859

That year we had experienced back up for Ronaldo and Rooney with OGS and Saha and Scholes all scoring there fair share of goals,in fact if you look at the stats every season we have had at least 4 strikers of quality or experience,this year Rooney, Berbatov,Owen that is it!!

It doen't take a lot of thought that if United are to be successful in all competitions they are going to play a lot of games....hence need 4 strikers of quality and experience(we are not talking about the new upcoming youngsters like Macheda and Diouf)

ROONEY...Wonderful season the world is now taking notice of how good he really is,scored goals for fun this season whilst playing mainly as a sole front man...work rate second to none.

BERBATOV....Signed Really as a replacement for Saha and Solsjaer looked the business at Spurs and moved to a better club with better players around him..2 years later he just hasn't come up to the standard expected of him,maybe he is a luxury player but he is not a United player for me,need to get rid next year.

OWEN...SIGNED AS A REPLACEMENT FOR RONALDO AND TEVEZ!!!!! Now he was good in his day but come on.with his injury record and his age!..no!

Thats it bare bones....we have a been fortunate this season that we have had Rooney without injury and on fire....his best season to date,Owen injury and out for the season!! well even the old fortune tellers would have gauranteed this to happen,and that leaves Bumbletoff who is not up to doing what he was bought for,scoring goals and working for the team on a regular basis.

Ferguson knows how lucky we have been this year and now he knows that he made a mistake in not getting that 4th striker,we will be fortunate to win the league now and it for me this year has been a poor premier league and we have not got a chance beating the likes of Barcelona with only one class goal scorer.

Signed a fair weather supporter.LOL

[LeungKen]

So perhaps I should change my description from delusional to dementia sufferer, NADTATIDA1............

[mrbojangles]

First of all mate, my name is not Jamie, it's James. You can't honestly say that when we signed Owen at the start of the year two thoughts didn't go through your mind 1) This is who we bought to replace Tevez and Ronaldo? oh oh and 2) I wonder how long till he got injured.

We have been riding our luck since day one with Wayne - the gaffer gambled and lost. Sorry, he sits there and says Macheda, Welbeck , Diouf.... how many goals between them this year 2 or 3? Just own up to the fact (blame berba if you want but he was the same last year - so not getting rid of him or getting a reliable replacement lays at the feet of the gaffer) our over reliance on wayne has cost us.

It not the two most recent games you keep referring to, I think of games against Leeds, Villa, Burnley, LP, Chelsea, Fulham, AC Milan, CSKA, Wolfs..... shall I keep counting. Unless Wayne scores one or two it doesnt look good. What's that our defense has been injured all year - compared to others our Goals against is pretty good.

That is probably the most sensible post I have ever seen you write Jamesy

[NADTATIDA1]

LOL Ken, i prefer selective dementia!

The fact is plain to see,fergie through not having the use of the money from Ronaldo has been made to use a sparse experienced strikeforce,now if that is his fault for not pushing the board more or the board simply saying the money was not available remains to be seen!

I think the Glazer script has damaged the club on the pitch this season,more than they thought it would do,talks of takeovers and matchday protests are the norm now,it is not just the Red shirts in Thailand that are angry.

Close season with the World cup and obviously inflated player prices will be a very interesting time for United....and ultimately we will see yet again the strength of Fergusons managerial skills,but this last season he has deffo had his hands tied in my opinion.

And now we are paying for it on and off the pitch.

I have said that i think the premier league is weak this year,there really has not been that many outstanding perfomances from many of the top sides,that said the Champions league aint much better on quality either from what games i have seen,just my opinion thats all!

[rixalex]

But we were " United " before you were ...

Well Singhsy, if you get relegated this season at least you'll have the comfort of knowing you beat us to the race of naming your club.

[MSingh]

But we were " United " before you were ...

Well Singhsy, if you get relegated this season at least you'll have the comfort of knowing you beat us to the race of naming your club.

We won't get relegated & we'll always be the first United...

[alfieconn]

error

Edited April 6, 2010 by alfieconn

[rixalex]

We won't get relegated & we'll always be the first United...

To the first part, i hope you won't. To the second part, 60 million odd Thai people can't be wrong.

[rixalex]

There are a few doubters creeping into this thread, thankfully there are still many who are not fair-weather supporters & I for one will back Fergie, his players and staff to the hilt.

Call me delusional if you like, but I still think we can lift 2 more trophies this season.

You're not delusional Kensy.

Some people are talking like the season is over. It's not.

Another factor in all this is for me success isn't simply judged by the number of trophies we end up with come May, strange as that may sound. There's a bigger picture to consider. Prudency might not be exciting, but long term it can be crucial to the future of the club. A lot of managers, especially perhaps those less experienced, might have been tempted and felt pressured into splurging after the Ronaldo sale. Perhaps had we done that we would have had better cover for Rooney and that would have been great, but it could have gone the other way - a big name signing up front might have stiffled Rooney's play and there could have been problems with building understanding and fitting in. Who knows? Nobody - we're talking unknowns.

What i do know is, bearing in mind the squad we have, our current position is pretty darn fantastic i think, and even if we win nothing else this year the club has a very solid base to work from and is looking very strong for the future (change of owners would be nice of course, but that's only a matter of time).

[NADTATIDA1]

Well they covered that one up well.Rooney has made a rapid recovery and starts the game tonight!

Happy Neville not playing,also Gibson been given a start! I think looking at Bayerns team they are going for goals tonight should be quite an open game i hope.

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Rafael, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Nani, Fletcher, Valencia, Gibson, Rooney. Subs: Kuszczak, Berbatov, Giggs, Scholes, O'Shea, Evans, Macheda.

Bayern Munich: Butt, Lahm, Van Buyten, Demichelis, Badstuber, Schweinsteiger, Van Bommel, Ribery, Robben, Olic, Muller. Subs: Rensing, Hamit Altintop, Klose, Pranjic, Contento, Gomez, Tymoshchuk

Edited April 7, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[smokie36]

Rafael's first half stupidity cost you the game. Its a pity as he had a great half otherwise. Cynical play from the Germans to get him sent off but not unexpected. I felt you were unlucky tonight. Great first half just a shame the second was ruined by the poor refereeing decision.

[merck]

Hard luck Man U.

PS

Footage of Fergie in the dressing room after the match :

[sharecropper]

Sorry to see you go out last night.

If you don't win the Premiership, could Fergie be off in the summer? He might have had it with the hassle.

[sharecropper]

Rixalex, are you a Liverpool fan in disguise? Or is this what United are also coming to:

1. Another factor in all this is for me success isn't simply judged by the number of trophies we end up with come May, strange as that may sound.

2.our current position is pretty darn fantastic i think, and even if we win nothing else this year ……

3.(change of owners would be nice of course, but that's only a matter of time)

It is easy to blame the owners for the manager's mistakes (selling Tevez, not buying properly post-Ronaldo - I seem to recall Fergie at the tiime saying he could, as the money was there).

Whilst it is an irritation off-field with the debt, United fans have even less to complain about their owners than Liverpool, in terms of money put into the club and ongoing success. It's more like Xenophobia. I reckon those fan protests have probably done more damage to your season than anything else. A constant buzzing irritation in the background, pissing off everyone on and off the pitch.

Ironically they may also mean world class managers will avoid Old Trafford if Fergie does go, making matters even worse for the club.

I know some Man U fans think this is the best way forward, even if it bombs United back to the footballing stone age, so good luck to them, but if I were Man U I would ban the green and gold from the ground. It doesn't seem to be helping, and the Glazers are still there, and successfully raised megamilions recently.

And whoever comes in as owners next, they aren’t going to be anything other than savvy, successful businessmen who won’t be dishing out free shares to the Stretford End, and sitting down for meaningful pow wows with them, on transfer policy and financials, whatever some might like to think.

This isn’t some Socialist collective. It’s a (luckily still) successful global mega-business, although that might change.

[MB1]

Rafael's first half stupidity cost you the game. Its a pity as he had a great half otherwise. Cynical play from the Germans to get him sent off but not unexpected. I felt you were unlucky tonight. Great first half just a shame the second was ruined by the poor refereeing decision.

I'll agree great first half, especially the first 7 minutes but hang on will ya and do me a favour, stop blaming the referee with regards decisions, Man U were 3..0 up and the game ended 3..2 and went out on the away goals rule, only have themselves to blame me thinks.

[bkkjames]

Rafael's first half stupidity cost you the game. Its a pity as he had a great half otherwise. Cynical play from the Germans to get him sent off but not unexpected. I felt you were unlucky tonight. Great first half just a shame the second was ruined by the poor refereeing decision.

I'll agree great first half, especially the first 7 minutes but hang on will ya and do me a favour, stop blaming the referee with regards decisions, Man U were 3..0 up and the game ended 3..2 and went out on the away goals rule, only have themselves to blame me thinks.

Easy to blame Rafael but I point my finger at Carrick (again) and the two goals we conceded in Germany (Neville's pointless handball and Evra falling asleep in extra time).

Got what we deserved.

[MSingh]

Rafael's first half stupidity cost you the game. Its a pity as he had a great half otherwise. Cynical play from the Germans to get him sent off but not unexpected. I felt you were unlucky tonight. Great first half just a shame the second was ruined by the poor refereeing decision.

I'll agree great first half, especially the first 7 minutes but hang on will ya and do me a favour, stop blaming the referee with regards decisions, Man U were 3..0 up and the game ended 3..2 and went out on the away goals rule, only have themselves to blame me thinks.

Easy to blame Rafael but I point my finger at Carrick (again) and the two goals we conceded in Germany (Neville's pointless handball and Evra falling asleep in extra time).

Got what we deserved.

Refreshingly honest Jimbo, bravo...

[rixalex]

Rafael's first half stupidity cost you the game. Its a pity as he had a great half otherwise. Cynical play from the Germans to get him sent off but not unexpected. I felt you were unlucky tonight. Great first half just a shame the second was ruined by the poor refereeing decision.

I'll agree great first half, especially the first 7 minutes but hang on will ya and do me a favour, stop blaming the referee with regards decisions, Man U were 3..0 up and the game ended 3..2 and went out on the away goals rule, only have themselves to blame me thinks.

Yeah, i agree. Rafael only has himself to blame - not so much for the second booking which was worth taking, but the first was just daft and unnecessary. Of course it was a shame the way Bayern pleaded for him to be carded, and i don't think Ribery covered himself in glory, but i don't think there can be any complaints about the decision in the end. The only thing the ref might have done is booked some of their guys for the haranguing.

For me though, i don't think that's what turned the game. Down to 10 men i don't think needed to be a big issue. The problem for me and the mistake i feel that cost us the game was letting Olic draw one back when it looked like he had nowhere to go and noone for support. It was sloppy to concede that and from then on they had the onus. Had we manged to go in at half time 3 nil up i think it's job done.

Anyway, the way we played, especially in the first half, i think we can take a lot of positives that hopefully we can carry over to the Premiership.

It was a great night, just a shame about the result.

[rixalex]

Rixalex, are you a Liverpool fan in disguise? Or is this what United are also coming to:

1. Another factor in all this is for me success isn't simply judged by the number of trophies we end up with come May, strange as that may sound.

2.our current position is pretty darn fantastic i think, and even if we win nothing else this year ……

3.(change of owners would be nice of course, but that's only a matter of time)

It is easy to blame the owners for the manager's mistakes (selling Tevez, not buying properly post-Ronaldo - I seem to recall Fergie at the tiime saying he could, as the money was there).

Whilst it is an irritation off-field with the debt, United fans have even less to complain about their owners than Liverpool, in terms of money put into the club and ongoing success. It's more like Xenophobia. I reckon those fan protests have probably done more damage to your season than anything else. A constant buzzing irritation in the background, pissing off everyone on and off the pitch.

Ironically they may also mean world class managers will avoid Old Trafford if Fergie does go, making matters even worse for the club.

I know some Man U fans think this is the best way forward, even if it bombs United back to the footballing stone age, so good luck to them, but if I were Man U I would ban the green and gold from the ground. It doesn't seem to be helping, and the Glazers are still there, and successfully raised megamilions recently.

And whoever comes in as owners next, they aren't going to be anything other than savvy, successful businessmen who won't be dishing out free shares to the Stretford End, and sitting down for meaningful pow wows with them, on transfer policy and financials, whatever some might like to think.

This isn't some Socialist collective. It's a (luckily still) successful global mega-business, although that might change.

My comment about the owners was in brackets at the end of my post and i simply said "a change of owners would be nice", yet you seem to have read that as me saying all our ills fall at the feet of the owners. I don't believe they do, as i don't believe we are in as bad shape as some make out, as i also don't believe (for the hundredth time of saying) that selling Tevez was a mistake. We offered a very generous amount (more than he's worth in my opinion) and he still wanted out. So be it.