Does anyone here think we would have faired better under Capello?

yes, probably. because i think he'd have played 5 in midfield and at least made life a lot harder for italy.

The answer to you question, yes Paul Scholes can even at his age now and with Carrick and a holding midfielder we would have done a lot better than the Gerrard ad Parker, Gerrard both who just ran out of puff, Scholes evben at his age knows how to pace himself not run around like a headless chicken chasing the ball.

Woeful performance it is time for out with the old guard in with the new, but will Roy do this hahaha don't think so, but it is plain to see bring in the young guns and be patient with them they will gell and deliver in the long run.

Nev, I know you are a Utd supporter and all but dont you think you are heroically optimistic in thinking that Scholes would last 90 minutes (let alone 120 minutes in a match) when it is his 4th match with 4 days rest period imbetween. I mean since he has come back from retirement, he has started 15 matches and lasted 90 minutes just 5 times and has been substituted 10 times. Incidentally Scholes had 0 assists last season while Gerrard has 3 in this tournament.

Then it would have been up to Rooney and Welbeck (and later Carroll) to put Pirlo under pressure because he was,literally, picking up the ball from the toes of his centre backs and setting up moves, but there was neither the effort or the inclination on their part to graft.

correct, but 1] the manager has to change the shape to tell rooney or welbeck to drop into that hole, play closer to gerrard and parker and to hassle pirlo so he doesn't have all day on the ball and 2] if they're not doing it through laziness you hook them and replace them with someone who will do it.

again, this isn't about the players. they were doing what they were told to do. there were 8 premier league winners in that team and 4 champions league winners. these are not crap footballers. yet they were set up and played like fulham.

With the contribution Rooney put in,he might as well been sitting in an armchair on the sidelines.Hodgson pulled off Welbeck and put on Carroll and guess who was given the job to mark him when the expected high balls came from Hart?.....Pirlo.He had no chance of beating him in the air (although he did once I was amused to see) but he made himself a nuisance enough in that Carroll couldn't find Rooney with his knockdowns.

Yes,their are plenty of honours in the England team at club level but absolutely zilch for your country.What does that tell you? When Rooney flies off to Vegas to 'prepare' for Euro 2012,is he as concerned as we are?

I made a consious decision 3 or 4 world cups ago to never ever watch England in anything less than a semi final. The thought of 0-0, ET & penalties @ 4am do absolutly nothing for me, particularly as most of our players couldn't hit a cows arse with a shovel.

I'm glad I didn't waste any time watching this tournament.

Rooney was very poor want he? I thought he didnt look match fit. Italy havent been particular good in the tournament but England made them look like Barcelona. They are not know as a high passing, high possession team but they had 833 passes with 89% completion and as Stevie pointed out England had less possession and conceded more shots than Ireland.

Overall I think England did well to make it to the last 8 as I think there were at least 8 better teams in the tournament - France, Spain, Germany, Holland, Portugal, Italy, Denmark and Russia. Harsh maybe? Mind you, all the teams that England played said they were better than them.

in his press conference hodgson has just said "I don't regard statistics, particularly possession statistics, as important in determining which is a good or a bad team" and "we tried to play quite positively". he's deluded.

Nothing to be ashamed about going out to a better team.

They gave their all and were just not good enough.

At least they had some passion, unlike some England teams in the past.

Rooney was a bit of a non event and Young did not really turn up but overall they did more than expected.

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Nothing to be ashamed about going out to a better team.

They gave their all and were just not good enough.

At least they had some passion, unlike some England teams in the past.

Rooney was a bit of a non event and Young did not really turn up but overall they did more than expected.

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Nothing to be ashamed about for once, no real high expectations anyway and as we had bad times with penalties since 1990 When it got to penalties last night I thought here we go again, when Italy missed one I thought wow we could do it, and then my dreams were dashed, aaaahhh well at least we don't have to go through the ordeal of playing the old enemy the Germans and get our hopes up just to see us get our asses kicked by em.

The answer to you question, yes Paul Scholes can even at his age now and with Carrick and a holding midfielder we would have done a lot better than the Gerrard ad Parker, Gerrard both who just ran out of puff, Scholes evben at his age knows how to pace himself not run around like a headless chicken chasing the ball.

Woeful performance it is time for out with the old guard in with the new, but will Roy do this hahaha don't think so, but it is plain to see bring in the young guns and be patient with them they will gell and deliver in the long run.

Nev, I know you are a Utd supporter and all but dont you think you are heroically optimistic in thinking that Scholes would last 90 minutes (let alone 120 minutes in a match) when it is his 4th match with 4 days rest period imbetween. I mean since he has come back from retirement, he has started 15 matches and lasted 90 minutes just 5 times and has been substituted 10 times. Incidentally Scholes had 0 assists last season while Gerrard has 3 in this tournament.

Stats doe's not show his true value, even at his age him and Carrick would have made a huge difference to the England but Scholes chose to walk away from England after being forced out on the left wing to make way for Gerrard and Lampard to play in the same team, crazy, the best most creative midfielder to come through the England ranks in the last 20 years forced to play out on the left wing, sums England up really And Carrick being left out too good for United both get a well earned rest.

Thought the defence played well last night. Hart did as well, and Gerrard had a reasonable game in midfield.

I'd have expected more of the ManU trio, though, who were all pretty much all weak links. Rooney looked as though he was rusty, while Wellbeck and Young did very little. The Liverpool duo of Carrol and Henderson just looked out of their depth when they came on. Caroll is OK vs teams like Sweden, but he just looked clumsy, slow and outclassed in the midst of Italian skill and passing, whereas I've no idea why Henderson was there in the first place.

Pirlo was man of the match for Italy. Quality at the heart of midfield, which was where they won it.

Not a bad tournament overall for England. Didn't disgrace themselves. Unbeaten in normal time. Good experience for Walcott, Oxade Chamberlain and Wellbeck for the future too. Think they missed a bit more quality and experience in midfield though.

The answer to you question, yes Paul Scholes can even at his age now and with Carrick and a holding midfielder we would have done a lot better than the Gerrard ad Parker, Gerrard both who just ran out of puff, Scholes evben at his age knows how to pace himself not run around like a headless chicken chasing the ball.

Woeful performance it is time for out with the old guard in with the new, but will Roy do this hahaha don't think so, but it is plain to see bring in the young guns and be patient with them they will gell and deliver in the long run.

Nev, I know you are a Utd supporter and all but dont you think you are heroically optimistic in thinking that Scholes would last 90 minutes (let alone 120 minutes in a match) when it is his 4th match with 4 days rest period imbetween. I mean since he has come back from retirement, he has started 15 matches and lasted 90 minutes just 5 times and has been substituted 10 times. Incidentally Scholes had 0 assists last season while Gerrard has 3 in this tournament.

Stats doe's not show his true value, even at his age him and Carrick would have made a huge difference to the England but Scholes chose to walk away from England after being forced out on the left wing to make way for Gerrard and Lampard to play in the same team, crazy, the best most creative midfielder to come through the England ranks in the last 20 years forced to play out on the left wing, sums England up really And Carrick being left out too good for United both get a well earned rest.

Scholes, like Rio Ferdinand, is past it now when it comes to international level. Not good enough. That said our midfield was weak compared to the Italians, so Scholes might have improved it for 60 minutes last night with his experience and a battling performance. He would really have struggled 4 days later vs Germany, and then a few days later vs Spain - too much for him. As said above Scholes could only have played a bit part under these schedules.

Carrick??? He should have been playing alongside Henderson..... Somewhere other than Euro 2012 though ...

Nothing to be ashamed about going out to a better team.

They gave their all and were just not good enough.

At least they had some passion, unlike some England teams in the past.

Rooney was a bit of a non event and Young did not really turn up but overall they did more than expected.

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Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

all just too predictable really wasn't it? good opening 10-15 minutes, italy looking rattled and beatable, revert to hodgson type and sit back with your two banks of four. i bet pirlo couldn't believe his luck.

But why would he change what was going to plan early on,Stevie? This is a tournament that isn't only won on skill and team play but stamina as well.You could see that the midfield was gradually being forced back due to the drive and determination of Marchisio and Montolivo and their full backs pushing on.This allowed Pirlo the freedom of the park to weave his magic.

because roy isn't competent enough to change shape to combat what other teams do so he reverts to his default sit back and try to counter. which simply doesn't work against good teams who can play keep-ball and tire you out chasing their shadows.

why did he stay with a flat 4-4-2 when it patently wasn't working? why was pirlo allowed the all that space and freedom? why wasn't the shape changed when it was so clear that italy had an extra man in midfield all the time?

Of course Roy has to take some of the blame and there were some tactical issues, but let's be honest, a lot of the players simply didn't perform. Bearing in mind the time Roy had to prepare, i think he did a decent enough job. Put it this way, i am in no doubt we wouldn't have done any better under Capello, who had been working with the players and in the job a h3ll of a lot longer.

Added to which, it is good to have an English team again, no matter the results. Foreign managers leading national sides is all wrong for me. We've made a step back in the right direction. Hopefully with some more quality in the side for next time, we can push on from here. We are England though so no guarantees on that score!

Basically I agree, but you say "Hopefully with some more quality in the side for next time". Who?

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Its getting a bit boring now after all these weeks.

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Its getting a bit boring now after all these weeks.

I thought you were busy watching Vengeance Carmine, that looks like a chick series which I imagine is far more boring.

Nothing to be ashamed about going out to a better team.

They gave their all and were just not good enough.

At least they had some passion, unlike some England teams in the past.

Rooney was a bit of a non event and Young did not really turn up but overall they did more than expected.

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Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Its getting a bit boring now after all these weeks.

I thought you were busy watching Vengeance Carmine, that looks like a chick series which I imagine is far more boring.

If you haven't watched it then why are you judging it? Anyway, whats it got to do with you statboy......

If you haven't watched it then why are you judging it? Anyway, whats it got to do with you statboy......

Nothing really - I suggest you download Breaking Bad.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

a lot of european journalists have been picking glen johnson for rightback in their teams of the tournament. and as mentioned previously spain's press said that johnson is the only english player who would start for spain.

If you haven't watched it then why are you judging it? Anyway, whats it got to do with you statboy......

Nothing really - I suggest you download Breaking Bad.

Earlier this week I watched the full series of Spartacus 3 in one day. Awesome.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

a lot of european journalists have been picking glen johnson for rightback in their teams of the tournament. and as mentioned previously spain's press said that johnson is the only english player who would start for spain.

I would agree with that. It still rankles me why Chelsea sold him on.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

a lot of european journalists have been picking glen johnson for rightback in their teams of the tournament. and as mentioned previously spain's press said that johnson is the only english player who would start for spain.

I would agree with that. It still rankles me why Chelsea sold him on.

aye. especially having spent about 31m on ferreira and bosingwa since.

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Its getting a bit boring now after all these weeks.

So is the whole '66 thing carmine but I'm still smiling.

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

Its getting a bit boring now after all these weeks.

So is the whole '66 thing carmine but I'm still smiling.

What whole '66 thing? Apart from the scots banging on about it "not being a goal" thing for the last 46 years! All the english have done is drawn reference to this being the last and only time we won the trophy and for that we have to persevere with this purile boring english bashing and frankly i think most would agree on here its really done its time now. Removing the chips from scottish shoulders "thing" is more the case. Why ever some english people still support the other home nations is beyond me when we have to put up with the constant sniping and bitter and twisted barbed comments from other brits.

Thats better!

No hard feelings carms....here...have one of these on me!

Nothing to be ashamed about going out to a better team.

They gave their all and were just not good enough.

At least they had some passion, unlike some England teams in the past.

Rooney was a bit of a non event and Young did not really turn up but overall they did more than expected.

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Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

Hart, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.

England's only failing is not having a Gazza and a Scholes available. Without a decent creative midfield you can't achieve anything, and all else falls in to dysfunction which is exactly what happened.

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

a lot of european journalists have been picking glen johnson for rightback in their teams of the tournament. and as mentioned previously spain's press said that johnson is the only english player who would start for spain.

Obviously there is a shortage of good right backs in Spain ! and i certainly woudn't put Johnson in the world class bracket, good but not world class !

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

If you have a look at my postings on England you will see that I am quite objective really, I am staing it the way it seems to be to me. Despite having a number of very good (then) auxilliary players we just don't have enough class in midfield, despite trojan like contribuions from Gerrard and Parker.

In this respect we are not a good team , in fact a very average one. Indeed everyone outplayed us.

Arrogant!?!

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

Hart, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.

England's only failing is not having a Gazza and a Scholes available. Without a decent creative midfield you can't achieve anything, and all else falls in to dysfunction which is exactly what happened.

Ok the jokes over ! you've named 4 players all over the hill and not one of them would make the top 6 in their position in the world, Hart may be !