England'S Official 2012 Euro Discussion Thread

[mommysboy]

World class ! i'm afraid your having a laugh, name me one player who would get into any of the top teams in the world.

Hart, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.

England's only failing is not having a Gazza and a Scholes available. Without a decent creative midfield you can't achieve anything, and all else falls in to dysfunction which is exactly what happened.

Ok the jokes over ! you've named 4 players all over the hill and not one of them would make the top 6 in their position in the world, Hart may be !

Jokes on you pal, you said name one.

But lets say good international players anyway.

Here's something telling as always:

from telegraph.co.uk

Hodgson revealed some damning details, namely that England’s ageing engine-room ran out of steam after four games in 13 days.

“From midway through the second half we lost one of our most inventive players in the midfield in Steven with cramp. Parker was also struggling with the Achilles.

"We had used up to two of our substitutes (with Andy Carroll and Theo Walcott coming on for Danny Welbeck and James Milner) so we were struggling to know how to get round that situation.”

Parker was replaced by Jordan Henderson but Gerrard struggled on. “We were forced to keep Steven on,’’ continued Hodgson.

“We haven’t made excuses at this tournament but there were quite a few players left at home who were very good technical footballers who may actually have helped us out had they been here.

"If Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard had been available [against Italy], it might have given me more of a chance to help out some of the others.

“There are players like Wilshere in central midfield who might have improved the technical level of our performance.”

So England were limping through extra-time, drained by the debilitating demands of the season, clinging on for penalties, a tactic akin to lemmings booking a coach party to Beachy Head.

“Given the sort of problems we were trying to deal with, we did pretty well to get it to penalties,’’ continued Hodgson.

My additional comment. Remember who else we didn't have Scholes and Carrick, whose actions are unacceptable in my view.

And Rodwell as well as the hapless Wilshere.

[SantiSuk]

Englands next international is going to be crucial. Yes by all means keep Gerrard as captain if fit and good, but lets hope we have seen the last of Parker, Lampard and (especially) Milner. Thank you very much gentlemen - some great contributions and may you long continue to shine for your clubs.

The future has to be about developing the likes of Wilshere, Rodwell, Henderson and Jones (surely there is another couple of young 'uns bubbling under somewhere - suggestions people? Apologies if I've forgotten someone obvious. Barry and Carrick will be 33/34 by the time of the World Cup tournament and Lampard will be old enough to be a grandad!

At least we have a reasonably strong young cohort up front to play with - Rooney, Wellbeck, Carroll, Young, Walcott (maybe - have my doubts) and Ox-Cha. I think they can thrive if properly served by a quality midfield.

[nev]

Englands next international is going to be crucial. Yes by all means keep Gerrard as captain if fit and good, but lets hope we have seen the last of Parker, Lampard and (especially) Milner. Thank you very much gentlemen - some great contributions and may you long continue to shine for your clubs.

The future has to be about developing the likes of Wilshere, Rodwell, Henderson and Jones (surely there is another couple of young 'uns bubbling under somewhere - suggestions people? Apologies if I've forgotten someone obvious. Barry and Carrick will be 33/34 by the time of the World Cup tournament and Lampard will be old enough to be a grandad!

At least we have a reasonably strong young cohort up front to play with - Rooney, Wellbeck, Carroll, Young, Walcott (maybe - have my doubts) and Ox-Cha. I think they can thrive if properly served by a quality midfield.

It is not all about getting rid of the old guard and throwing the young ones in, i think we need a new manager too, Hodgson's tactics leave a lot to be desired, a young manager is needed with fresh new idea's and whole new approach, we are so far behind the rest of europe it is laughable.

[mrbojangles]

It is not all about getting rid of the old guard and throwing the young ones in, i think we need a new manager too, Hodgson's tactics leave a lot to be desired, a young manager is needed with fresh new idea's and whole new approach, we are so far behind the rest of europe it is laughable.

Oh mu Buddha. Me and Nev agree on something.

[SantiSuk]

Yeah, having feted Roy for three games, lets all stab him in the back for being the guy who was left without a chair when the music stopped.

Gentlemen, we are English (not scousers*)

*just teasing

[smokie36]

Yeah, having feted Roy for three games, lets all stab him in the back for being the guy who was left without a chair when the music stopped.

Gentlemen, we are English (not scousers*)

*just teasing

Don't sack Woy....please!!!

[smokie36]

Yes I agree. England just doesn't have a really decent playmaker or 2. Without that it doesn't matter how good everyone else is, and some of them are world class. What if Pirlo was English? or Messi? or even Modric. I rather think that would make us champions because the rest of the positions are well covered.

The arrogance didn't take long to return then?

If you have a look at my postings on England you will see that I am quite objective really, I am staing it the way it seems to be to me. Despite having a number of very good (then) auxilliary players we just don't have enough class in midfield, despite trojan like contribuions from Gerrard and Parker.

In this respect we are not a good team , in fact a very average one. Indeed everyone outplayed us.

Arrogant!?!

heheh calm down dear.

[StevieH]

Yeah, having feted Roy for three games, lets all stab him in the back for being the guy who was left without a chair when the music stopped.

Gentlemen, we are English (not scousers*)

*just teasing

what does this even mean santi? roy was touting himself for the england job even in his first ever press conference as liverpool manager. the FA got the man they wanted and now they will reap what they sow, as always. he'll actually take english football backwards.

in other news, permatanned berk and former football manager phil brown seems to think that because andrea pirlo has spent all his career in serie a and has never moved to 'the best league in the world ™', this makes him homophobic. it's possible that what the orange clown meant was 'xenophobic':

Edited June 27, 2012 by StevieH

[carmine]

Love this stat!

Englands best passing combination was Hart to Carroll!!!

Edited June 27, 2012 by carmine

[oldgit]

England's next international match is a friendly against Italy!.What's the betting that,whoever plays up front or in midfield will pull their <deleted> out to deny Pirlo the space he had previously to prove a point,and in a match that Italy won't care about because they got the result when it mattered?

[rixalex]

Yeah, having feted Roy for three games, lets all stab him in the back for being the guy who was left without a chair when the music stopped.

Gentlemen, we are English (not scousers*)

*just teasing

what does this even mean santi? roy was touting himself for the england job even in his first ever press conference as liverpool manager. the FA got the man they wanted and now they will reap what they sow, as always. he'll actually take english football backwards.

No surprises at the hasty and damning conclusions you feel comfortable coming to on Roy having seen just four competitive games for England in which only a few weeks of preparation were possible and having given a performance in the competition that was at least as good as what his predecessor had been able to achieve after years in the job.

Anyone who looked at our team sheet before the competition started would have said we would do well to get through the group stages, and many predicted we were so crap that we wouldn't even do that. Well we did, we even topped our group and if not for Ashley Young aiming his penalty kick a few inches lower, probably would have made it to the semis. Whilst we certainly didn't play pretty football, we did play for the most part effective football, and that is what has to be the first step for a team comprising of those players.

[StevieH]

No surprises at the hasty and damning conclusions you feel comfortable coming to on Roy having seen just four competitive games for England in which only a few weeks of preparation were possible and having given a performance in the competition that was at least as good as what his predecessor had been able to achieve after years in the job.

Anyone who looked at our team sheet before the competition started would have said we would do well to get through the group stages, and many predicted we were so crap that we wouldn't even do that. Well we did, we even topped our group and if not for Ashley Young aiming his penalty kick a few inches lower, probably would have made it to the semis. Whilst we certainly didn't play pretty football, we did play for the most part effective football, and that is what has to be the first step for a team comprising of those players.

none so blind as them that won't see rix. you go on with your head in the sand though while the rest of world football sees the highest-paid team in the competition from the country with the richest league in the world play the most craven, cowardly football in the tournament. keep grasping at those 'well we nearly reached the semi-finals' straws and remember ashley young's mishit penalty while conveniently forgetting the absolute embarrassment of the ball possession statistics and total ignorance of the manager to do anything about pirlo orchestrating the game.

looking at the teamsheet before the competition started england should have got out of the group. because on paper they have a better squad than all three of france, sweden and ukraine. but they weren't allowed or encouraged to even play football.

you say 'hasty and damning conclusions' and you're wrong again. i've been here before, as have all liverpool fans. we've seen what happens when hodgson gets his hands on better players and an expectation level which isn't rock-bottom. but do carry on with your daydreaming and pretending it's all going to be ok. it isn't, i promise you.

[rijit]

Just a point stevie, phil brown on a 5 live podcast recently said that the players in the bundesleague are paid as well as players in the prem lge , the interviewer pulled him up on it thinking he made a mistake and he reiterated that from his experience they were'

I'm not a great woy fan mate but he's on a four year <deleted>!!!! deal, so worst ways we've got him 4 2? lets be positive, what can he do? He aint gomna change the way he sets the team up u know that as well as i do,. but he can improve the teams individuals, Wiltshire, for one will improve our passing and ball retention but gerrard or parker will have to go? u choose LOL and the other is good bye ashley cole,he's been a great player but thought he made absolutely no impression, think how much our right bac attacked and pushed 4 ward, then think cole,? cole did abso nothing, defended decently , but so could i have, pushed that far into our c/bs and young totally covering his arse, 2 the point of him being so far bac he was poor,imo its time for ashley boy to do a Cheryl!!! , Baines would do the job cole did oh so well 4 years ago. Theres 2 improvements, any more for any more?

Edited July 2, 2012 by rijit

[rixalex]

No surprises at the hasty and damning conclusions you feel comfortable coming to on Roy having seen just four competitive games for England in which only a few weeks of preparation were possible and having given a performance in the competition that was at least as good as what his predecessor had been able to achieve after years in the job.

Anyone who looked at our team sheet before the competition started would have said we would do well to get through the group stages, and many predicted we were so crap that we wouldn't even do that. Well we did, we even topped our group and if not for Ashley Young aiming his penalty kick a few inches lower, probably would have made it to the semis. Whilst we certainly didn't play pretty football, we did play for the most part effective football, and that is what has to be the first step for a team comprising of those players.

none so blind as them that won't see rix. you go on with your head in the sand though while the rest of world football sees the highest-paid team in the competition from the country with the richest league in the world play the most craven, cowardly football in the tournament. keep grasping at those 'well we nearly reached the semi-finals' straws and remember ashley young's mishit penalty while conveniently forgetting the absolute embarrassment of the ball possession statistics and total ignorance of the manager to do anything about pirlo orchestrating the game.

looking at the teamsheet before the competition started england should have got out of the group. because on paper they have a better squad than all three of france, sweden and ukraine. but they weren't allowed or encouraged to even play football.

you say 'hasty and damning conclusions' and you're wrong again. i've been here before, as have all liverpool fans. we've seen what happens when hodgson gets his hands on better players and an expectation level which isn't rock-bottom. but do carry on with your daydreaming and pretending it's all going to be ok. it isn't, i promise you.

You are falling into the same trap as those whom you so detest, that arrogantly believe that just because our league has great financial might, and our players are some of the best paid players in the world, that that fact alone means we have the right to demand / expect a certain level of football. What players get paid is a matter entirely between themselves, their agents and the clubs they sign to. It has no bearing whatsoever when it comes to international football.

Completely disagree with you regarding your comment about the England team being that much stronger than the other teams in our group. I really don't think it is. And the squad we had this year was in my opinion a much weaker squad than that which went to the last few competitions. Squads which performed no better than this one.

As for the cowardly football comment, that really is a crock of <deleted>. The type of nonsense that managers whose teams fail to break down lesser teams who park the bus, like to come out with, as it ignores the fact that it was they that failed, and attempts to ridicule the other side that didn't. First rule of football is play to your stengths. You were yourself advoacting this mentalitly when it came to the Spanish playing the boring back and forth unpenetrative football that they did in a few games, and argued that they need not give a shit how entertained people might be by it, providing they got the result they wanted. I agreed with you. With regards England's performances, if you look simply at the points we got from the group stages, you can't argue with those figures. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. Well it's all that matters to me, but here speaks an England fan that has expectations sets very low. You on the other hand are a self-proclaimed "don't give a shit about the national side Liverpool fan", who spends all his time rubbishing the England team, the England players and the England manager (well now that the manager is English you do((plus of course it is Roy!)) ) but then when they do play, from this "rubbish", suddenly you expect decent things. Funny that.

Don't recall Liverpool playing in a particularly "brave" fashion in getting to the Champion's League final. They may have on occasion, but in the main, i recall it being a very cicumspect containing type of football, in which you often won by one solitary goal from one solitary striker. Or to put it another way, an effective type of football. Don't recall you lambasting it as being craven or cowardly.

Anyway, my head isn't in the sand. I know where the England team is right now, what it is capable of, what its limitations are, and i don't expect things to change overnight. Happy to give the manager time to work on things. It's the attitude i take with any manager new to a job.