More Racist Dual Pricing In Bangkok

[Nisa]

If they ask for ID of everyone, it's not racial. If they don't bother asking for ID of for example an old Chinese lady from China, it IS racial. Which way do you reckon it will happen here?

Why shouldn't they offer a discount to their own old people? I don't see any reason why old folk from other countries should get a discount.

Yeah, sure, but what about that old Chinese lady from China who I reckon is going to get the discount as well?

And this is the main reason why everybody should stop calling themselves farang, farang farang.

By calling ourselves farang all the time, we will only consolidate us as being something else, something very alien.

Sure the thais will still call us farang, but please dont make it worse by refering to yourself (not talking abou you jingthing, but in general) as a farang all the time.

I laugh when I see posts like, "can a farang start a business in Thailand"?, "can a farang go to a regular hospital"?, "can a farang open a bank account in thailand"?

The answer is yes, in fact, if a foreigner can do it, you can also do it, even though you have white skin.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a group by a descriptive word. I like the fact there is not so much emphasis on political correctness here. In the states it could be a big problem if a waiter asks who is this meal for and the chef says, "the black" or "the Asian" guy. Why are people so afraid of somebody calling somebody what they are? I mean I can understand if they say the "fat guy" because maybe the guy doesn't want to think about his weight problem but if you are white, black. asian or a western white person in Thailand why feel bad about this? Anyone can take any descriptive term be it black, white or asian and attach a negative tone to it but alone, they certainly are not negative. Should we go the same route in the US were the "n" word was banned and replaced with an acceptable terms such as negro, then to only decide that word became negative and replace it with colored, only to see that also become bad and replaced with black which also was deemed offensive and last I checked it is now African American except to those who take offence to this because they along with their parents were born in the US and if they are African Americans then why are whites simply whites and not Irish Americans or German Americans .... really gets idiotic imo.

[ayayay]

And this is the main reason why everybody should stop calling themselves farang, farang farang.

By calling ourselves farang all the time, we will only consolidate us as being something else, something very alien.

Sure the thais will still call us farang, but please dont make it worse by refering to yourself (not talking abou you jingthing, but in general) as a farang all the time.

I laugh when I see posts like, "can a farang start a business in Thailand"?, "can a farang go to a regular hospital"?, "can a farang open a bank account in thailand"?

The answer is yes, in fact, if a foreigner can do it, you can also do it, even though you have white skin.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a group by a descriptive word. I like the fact there is not so much emphasis on political correctness here. In the states it could be a big problem if a waiter asks who is this meal for and the chef says, "the black" or "the Asian" guy. Why are people so afraid of somebody calling somebody what they are? I mean I can understand if they say the "fat guy" because maybe the guy doesn't want to think about his weight problem but if you are white, black. asian or a western white person in Thailand why feel bad about this?

It´s not about political correctness, its about making it easier for Thais to look at us as human beings.

If you want to continue calling yourself farang, please do. But it will definitely not help dual pricing, etc...

[Nisa]

And this is the main reason why everybody should stop calling themselves farang, farang farang.

By calling ourselves farang all the time, we will only consolidate us as being something else, something very alien.

Sure the thais will still call us farang, but please dont make it worse by refering to yourself (not talking abou you jingthing, but in general) as a farang all the time.

I laugh when I see posts like, "can a farang start a business in Thailand"?, "can a farang go to a regular hospital"?, "can a farang open a bank account in thailand"?

The answer is yes, in fact, if a foreigner can do it, you can also do it, even though you have white skin.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a group by a descriptive word. I like the fact there is not so much emphasis on political correctness here. In the states it could be a big problem if a waiter asks who is this meal for and the chef says, "the black" or "the Asian" guy. Why are people so afraid of somebody calling somebody what they are? I mean I can understand if they say the "fat guy" because maybe the guy doesn't want to think about his weight problem but if you are white, black. asian or a western white person in Thailand why feel bad about this?

It´s not about political correctness, its about making it easier for Thais to look at us as human beings.

If you want to continue calling yourself farang, please do. But it will definitely not help dual pricing, etc...

The dual pricing is about citizenship not about being a farang but a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term unless you want it to be. If you can whip out a Thai ID showing residency here then you get the local price. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp. Be it a local beach or amusement park in the US, it is not uncommon for their to be discounts for locals. In my opinion is is absolutely ridiculous to complain about foreigners, who generally have vastly larger wealth and incomes than locals, to not pay a couple dollars more for access to some locations. If you don't like it, then become a resident or don't visit these locations or Thailand. Just silly to complain about what you cannot control in a place you are not even a resident.

[ayayay]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

[Jingthing]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

Yeah, that's the way it (largely) is. Take it or leave it, I reckon.

[Lakegeneve]

And this is the main reason why everybody should stop calling themselves farang, farang farang.

By calling ourselves farang all the time, we will only consolidate us as being something else, something very alien.

Sure the thais will still call us farang, but please dont make it worse by refering to yourself (not talking abou you jingthing, but in general) as a farang all the time.

I laugh when I see posts like, "can a farang start a business in Thailand"?, "can a farang go to a regular hospital"?, "can a farang open a bank account in thailand"?

The answer is yes, in fact, if a foreigner can do it, you can also do it, even though you have white skin.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a group by a descriptive word. I like the fact there is not so much emphasis on political correctness here. In the states it could be a big problem if a waiter asks who is this meal for and the chef says, "the black" or "the Asian" guy. Why are people so afraid of somebody calling somebody what they are? I mean I can understand if they say the "fat guy" because maybe the guy doesn't want to think about his weight problem but if you are white, black. asian or a western white person in Thailand why feel bad about this?

It´s not about political correctness, its about making it easier for Thais to look at us as human beings.

If you want to continue calling yourself farang, please do. But it will definitely not help dual pricing, etc...

The dual pricing is about citizenship not about being a farang but a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term unless you want it to be. If you can whip out a Thai ID showing residency here then you get the local price. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp. Be it a local beach or amusement park in the US, it is not uncommon for their to be discounts for locals. In my opinion is is absolutely ridiculous to complain about foreigners, who generally have vastly larger wealth and incomes than locals, to not pay a couple dollars more for access to some locations. If you don't like it, then become a resident or don't visit these locations or Thailand. Just silly to complain about what you cannot control in a place you are not even a resident.

With respect, there is one major problem in your thinking here Nisa and an underlying flaw in the dual pricing system. The overwhelming majority of foreigners in Thailand are NOT wealthy. They are poor and often abused migrant workers. Burmese and Cambodians especially. Granted that the majority of them being undocumented are not going to generally be visiting a dual pricing attraction with officials but that still leaves around 200k officially working in Thailand.

Actually in practice dual pricing is not mainly about citizenship as all non thais that I know that have worked in the country for years and pay taxes always get the thai rate. It of course helps they speak thai and have a thai drivers license.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Lakegeneve

[Lakegeneve]

Interestingly the MRT already offers an elder rate of 50% off for all nationalities.

The Airport Link offers a discount for those over 60 who are Thai nationals.

Yeah , how to really confuse an old person.

Get them to take the MRT, BTS and ARL in one day! Three different operators, 3 different tickets and 3 different ticketing policies!

[Nisa]

Interestingly the MRT already offers an elder rate of 50% off for all nationalities.

The Airport Link offers a discount for those over 60 who are Thai nationals.

Yeah , how to really confuse an old person.

Get them to take the MRT, BTS and ARL in one day! Three different operators, 3 different tickets and 3 different ticketing policies!

Hopefully this will change when the combine the systems or whatever you want to call what they have planned in terms of one ticket access to all trains. I am not sure the exact structure but know they are all independent companies now which seems ridiculous, they should all fall under the same controlling parent that sets basic policies. It would save a lot of money since almost all the policies and rules should be the same. Going back to the entire balloon bashing incident .. there are signs all over the MRT that show no balloons but they use different signs in the MRT when I am sure that all the banned items on the MRT sign are the same as the very different individual signs they use on the BTS ... yet they are paying for different designs and printing while adding confusion.

[endure]

Interestingly the MRT already offers an elder rate of 50% off for all nationalities.

The Airport Link offers a discount for those over 60 who are Thai nationals.

Yeah , how to really confuse an old person.

Get them to take the MRT, BTS and ARL in one day! Three different operators, 3 different tickets and 3 different ticketing policies!

Yes - us old folks are really too stupid to be able to handle three different ideas at once

[Bender]

THIS Case its clearly not a case of discrimination against foreigner.

If you take a young thai man , let say in his 30 yo, he gonna pay the full price, while the ederly thai got the discount.

You see its not against foreigner. Like in every country social category people got discount not based on their race but on their status(student, monk, ederly, pregnant...)

In this case senior thai got discount beacause they have worked all their life and so payed tax.

But i do agree, there are also a lot of another case where the foreigner got a dual price that totaly disgusting(theme park, restaurant, hotel.....)

[cdnvic]

If you are a caucasian Thai national of the correct age, of which there may not be many, but they do exist, you get the discount. There's no racism there.

[Nisa]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

Besides the fact we are not in the west and shouldn't expect things to be the same as the west ... maybe this issue is with you and/or your family and not a Thai thing. My family doesn't refer to me as farang among each other and refer to me by my name. Why in the world would they do differently? In fact, even among strangers, I have never been called farang as if it was my name. I've had little kids be excited and exclaim farang when they see me and have had people refer to me as farang when speaking about me to somebody else and I am the only farang in the crowd but never had anybody call me farang as if that was my name. Who knows, maybe your name is hard to pronounce but I find your experience rather strange.

As for always being a farang, I accept that as fact and nothing more just as I accept I will always be a white man ... at least as long as I don't get a sudden urge to become a farang ladyboy.

I will also tell you that, at least the Thais I know, often don't refer to people by name they aren't close with. Been in the same condo for 3+ years and the women who monitors the pool will always be The Pool Lady, the women who sells chicken outside will always be Chicken Women and the heavy guy who sells the good noodles and his stall is forever the Fat Man Noodles. It is also not common for people to get upset here if you point out to them the obvious such as them being fat or dark skinned ... the dark women who manages the front office is called The Black Women and she knows it just as I know I am the farang in 615 and my wife is the one married to the farang in 615. Keep in mind we interact with these people almost daily for years.

We are not in the west anymore, time to adapt and accept or be prepared to constantly be moaning as a number of posters here do.

Edit: Have a black friend and a Asian European friend who live in my complex with the same name. We call one Black Bobby and the other is Bobby Chang. Black Bobby knows he is black and Bobby Chang knows his last name is not Chang but is used to indicate he is of Asian decent. Nothing racist here just pointing out the obvious to distinguish people. My wife doesn't even remember what her sister's last name is who has been married many years. Different world my friend and unlike the west, you shouldn't assume somebody is disrespecting you here because unlike the west in these situations, they are almost surely not.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Nisa

[pomchop]

And this is the main reason why everybody should stop calling themselves farang, farang farang.

By calling ourselves farang all the time, we will only consolidate us as being something else, something very alien.

Sure the thais will still call us farang, but please dont make it worse by refering to yourself (not talking abou you jingthing, but in general) as a farang all the time.

I laugh when I see posts like, "can a farang start a business in Thailand"?, "can a farang go to a regular hospital"?, "can a farang open a bank account in thailand"?

The answer is yes, in fact, if a foreigner can do it, you can also do it, even though you have white skin.

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling a group by a descriptive word. I like the fact there is not so much emphasis on political correctness here. In the states it could be a big problem if a waiter asks who is this meal for and the chef says, "the black" or "the Asian" guy. Why are people so afraid of somebody calling somebody what they are? I mean I can understand if they say the "fat guy" because maybe the guy doesn't want to think about his weight problem but if you are white, black. asian or a western white person in Thailand why feel bad about this?

It´s not about political correctness, its about making it easier for Thais to look at us as human beings.

If you want to continue calling yourself farang, please do. But it will definitely not help dual pricing, etc...

The dual pricing is about citizenship not about being a farang but a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term unless you want it to be. If you can whip out a Thai ID showing residency here then you get the local price. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp. Be it a local beach or amusement park in the US, it is not uncommon for their to be discounts for locals. In my opinion is is absolutely ridiculous to complain about foreigners, who generally have vastly larger wealth and incomes than locals, to not pay a couple dollars more for access to some locations. If you don't like it, then become a resident or don't visit these locations or Thailand. Just silly to complain about what you cannot control in a place you are not even a resident.

i once saw a farang in pattaya go into a major meltdown because a baht bus driver wanted him to pay ten baht while thai people paid five baht....for a ride that probably would have cost the farang about 500 baht in his home land....simply put the guy was a frigging IDIOT to let five baht RUIN his entire day which it seemed to do...not only that but if he keeps it up sooner or later some yaba thai guys will likley put the IDIOT in the hospital or worse....there are very few countries that do not have some kind of local discounts on golf, or hotels, or restaurants, buses, trains, or SOMETHING....maybe all the keyboard warriors attacking thailand double pricing should go attack all that discrimination...i'm sure the locals in those countries will be thrilled to hear your concerns...

[ayayay]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

Yeah, that's the way it (largely) is. Take it or leave it, I reckon.

My point is, that, using the word farang when referring to ourselves, we will only enhance the Thai experience that we are very different and alien, and should also be treated as aliens, all the time, no matter what,

In short, by doing that, we indirectly help promote the idea, that we should be treated differently all the time, and never become accepted for who we really are.

[simple1]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

I must be the exception, but my extended family use the Thai word for 'Uncle" for me, even when I'm not physically there. How do i know this, because sometimes I overhear phone conversations e.g. where is Uncle...

[w11guy]

Same in many countries. Public transport is usually subsidized so why should tourists get cheap travel? It all works the other way around. Foreigners can get a VAT refund when they leave they leave the country; locals can't. Nothing to do with racism. You need to grow up and get a life.

[w11guy]

If you are a farang/foreigner who is a Thai citizen then you will get the discount. So race doesn't come into it at all. It is based on citizenship. Are you too stupid to understand that?

[w11guy]

a farang is a human being unless you believe their not. Calling somebody white or black or a foreigner certainly is not a dehumanizing term

The difference is, in many countries in the west, the foreigner are a foreigner until you know him, then you will begin to call him by his name, and refer to him by his name.

In Thailand, you are always farang. No matter how much you get to know your family, as soon as you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, And that will give you a hint that they look at you as an alien in many ways. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. But still, very very farang, and very very very alien.

Yeah, that's the way it (largely) is. Take it or leave it, I reckon.

My point is, that, using the word farang when referring to ourselves, we will only enhance the Thai experience that we are very different and alien, and should also be treated as aliens, all the time, no matter what,

In short, by doing that, we indirectly help promote the idea, that we should be treated differently all the time, and never become accepted for who we really are.

Where do you get the idea that you can't be different and still be accepted? Do you only accept people that are exactly like you? I don't think you've though this through properly.

[chuang]

I don't see any wrong for BTS to help Thai senior citizens....charity begins at home. ...why the grumble..don't patronize BTS then...

[chainarong]

Whats the problem , i am pretty shore if the HK Mtr , London , NY ,public transport system issued this discount to their senior citizens, people from other countries would not be eligible , seniors in West Australia enjoy these privileges , this dose not include seniors from other states of AU, but if you are a citizen of Thailand i would complain .

[ayayay]

you shouldn't assume somebody is disrespecting you here because unlike the west in these situations, they are almost surely not.

You still miss my point. I don´t say the word farang in itself is disrespectful, I say, it does not help thais to understand and appreciate us for being individuals and viewing us as becoming something beyond our skin color.

In a larger perspective, minimize the use of the word farang would also help a lot of misconceptions many thais have of us. And it will help us not being victims for abuse, rip offs, dual pricing, etc, which IS a HUGE problem here in Thailand.

Not saying Thais must change their view, no matter what, just saying, by constantly referring to ourselves as farang, we will definitely not help the view of us as being less alien.

Edited June 21, 2012 by ayayay

[ayayay]

Where do you get the idea that you can't be different and still be accepted? Do you only accept people that are exactly like you? I don't think you've though this through properly.

Read my answer above

[Theo007]

The MRT gives a seniors discount to everyone but you need to show ID at the ticket box. Discovered that in India the long distance trains give everyone a seniors discount as does Air India for domestic flights.

[lopburi3]

As said MRT does provide such a discount and I did not have to provide any proof on the two trips I made last week to receive it (just paid enough for the discounted rate and they understood and even provided with a smile).

[Semper]

^{I could be gone for some time.}

Please don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out.

Why do we only have "a like" button when at times I need a LOVE button?

Press the button twice.

[pipo1000]

^{Oh god, please make it stop}

^{Can some please pass me a bottle of scotch and a bottle of aspirin, please. I need to go and find a quiet room.}

^{I could be gone for some time.}

Let's hope so !!

[Nisa]

you shouldn't assume somebody is disrespecting you here because unlike the west in these situations, they are almost surely not.

You still miss my point. I don´t say the word farang in itself is disrespectful, I say, it does not help thais to understand and appreciate us for being individuals and viewing us as becoming something beyond our skin color.

In a larger perspective, minimize the use of the word farang would also help a lot of misconceptions many thais have of us. And it will help us not being victims for abuse, rip offs, dual pricing, etc, which IS a HUGE problem here in Thailand.

Not saying Thais must change their view, no matter what, just saying, by constantly referring to ourselves as farang, we will definitely not help the view of us as being less alien.

When we stop calling them Thais then maybe they will stop calling us farangs.

I am thinking maybe if you stop referring to them as Thais then it will stop the perception that many of us have of being "victims for abuse, rip offs, dual pricing, etc, which IS a HUGE problem" which you say is a "HUGE" problem.

Just curious what word you prefer instead of farang or do you propose we step up political correctness to not be able to describe groups of people by name ... no more use of westerner, black, white, foreigner, alien, immigrant, tourist, European or American (seen negatively by some groups) ....

[Jingthing]

Thai is a nationality. It's absurd to compare calling Thai people Thai to calling white of all nationalities f-rang. OK, Thai is also an ethnic group as well, but it is well understood based on context whether you mean Thai the ethnic group or Thai the nationality (almost always the latter).

Edited June 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[brit1984]

Rather than referring to Thais, Farangs, Brits, etc as a collective group, it would be more (politically correct) to provide the full names of all the millions of people who constitute that group.

In practice, categorisation of many people under one common name makes the conversation flow more smoothly. The key is that one should remember that every person is a unique individual.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Jingthing]

Rather than referring to Thais, Farangs, Brits, etc as a collective group, it would be more (politically correct) to provide the full names of all the millions of people who constitute that group.

In practice, categorisation of many people under one common name makes the conversation flow more smoothly. The key is that one should remember that every person is a unique individual.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

<deleted>. Referring to nationalities based on their nationality is perfectly acceptable. You present a ridiculous suggestion, naming everyone by name, that not one person would ever take as serious or practical. There is definitely a difference between labeling by specific nationality and labeling by terms such as f-rang or Oriental. In the USA, for example, calling people of Asian origin "Oriental" is now considered passe and a mild slur. Some of us feel the same way about the use of the f-rang word in Thailand and some of us don't. Personally, I accept the word is widely used and there is nothing we can do to change that. However, I do think people who are called f-rang should avoid using the word themselves in speech and writing. As I must use it here to communicate, I use f-rang instead to indicate non-approval, a suggestion I made long ago and adopted by absolutely nobody else! Edited June 21, 2012 by Jingthing