Kissing Thailand Good Riddance

[Trembly]

thats quite a sentence methinks. hiw long did it take you to write it?

I ejaculated it all in about 30 seconds but then spent about 20 minutes tweaking at least 10 times. I just can't help myself - I used to work with the written word professionally.

[Trembly]

I have a couple of grown up kids who were educated in Canada and Australia now have three teenage Thai step kids...none are angels by any stretch but gotta believe that a child's development is mostly about their own strength of character/personalities coupled with a good deal of parental involvement.

Sure all kids are influenced by their classmates positively or negatively...want to be one of the guys etc and want experiment...don't mean they are all gonna be junkies or the class bike.

Whilst the education system here in Thailand has it's faults I notice that the teachers, be they Thai or foreign, are very quick to summon the wife whenever there is any problems.

Have a mate who took his 1/2 Thai son out of private school and is now in public school.....the child is much happier and his work has improved. He is also trilingual......

So one cannot generalize.... it is about the individual methinks.

Attended a Brit mixed grammar school a hundred years ago.....we were all such perfect individuals.....no violence,no sex, no booze, no drugs, no racism ( unless you were born outside Middlesex ) , no class bike...............right!??

Ahhh Middlsex. I still shudder with uncertain joy when I think back to my days in Ashford, Staines and Sunbury.

[HeijoshinCool]

Hope you find what you want.

Frankly, though, some of your observations don't pass muster.

TV is bad here, yes. It is flat out dangerous in the States. It rots the brain and the spirit of young people.

Corruption? Here it is on the surface for a few baht. In the States, it goes deep to the core of government, for big bucks. Those caught serve little, if any, time. Later, they become celebrities and rich.

Sex culture? Please. There is no way I would raise a kid in the west. Porn is rampant and the average age for a kid to look at violent porn is 7. We had Playboy intpo college years. Drugs are endemic. Most of the kids in my classes are never going to amount to much, but they are sweet, good-hearted, and still far less influenced by "popular culture" than in the west. Yes, that is changing, but if it is getting worse here, it is everywhere.

And here, as opposed to the States, you don't have to worry that child services is going to act on an "anonymous" tip and take your kids out of school without your knowledge.

And in Thailand, as opposed to the States, you don't have to worry that your first grader is going to be shot dead by some product of the "culture" you deride.

I'll bash Thailand as quick as anyone, but maybe you should rethink your reasons for leaving. For your kid's sake. Sounds a little like you are making an emotional decision. I can relate to that. I do it everyday here. Then I give it some thought, and change my mind.

[uptheos]

OP - Do what you feel is right for you and your family and I hope things work out.

I've known people to return to their country of origin and they are doing fine.

I'm sure there are many that would love to return, but can't for various reasons.

[Stradavarius37]

Nature vs Nuture pal - If you are letting Thailand raise your kids, you might get what you are ranting about. But if YOU are raising your kids, they might turn out differently.

Kids can be raised (and are raised) anywhere in the world, successfully.

[Neeranam]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

[HeijoshinCool]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

Yes. Here you can turn it around and use it to your advantage. Back "home," it simply works against you. Unless you are very wealthy.

[fletchsmile]

I share a lot of concerns with OP. I was very happy with my upbringing in the west, and would very much like it if my kids could benefit from the same. So far I haven't come across the right balance in Thailand.

I have a brother and sister-in-law who are both in teaching back in the west. Their kids have been brought up very well - the parents' influence is no coincidence of course - and in decent areas. The school my brother used to teach at I wouldn't like to send my kids to or live in that area. The one my sister-in-law is at is better than most in Thailand and fine.

On the subject of racsim, my view is:

On the whole, racism is much more prevalent in Thailand than the West but less confrontational. In the West most people are generally less racist these days, and after years of education on the subject it shows in the average person's attitudes. On the other hand, the racists in the West although fewer in number are much more confrontational.

[StreetCowboy]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

For example, by not being out on the streets at the same time as persistent drink drivers, and not relying on fire safety facilities in public buildings, nor assuming that new road layouts will comply with local regulations.

SC

[hotandhumid]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

Yes. Here you can turn it around and use it to your advantage. Back "home," it simply works against you. Unless you are very wealthy.

Oh yes, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't corrupt!

[HeijoshinCool]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

Yes. Here you can turn it around and use it to your advantage. Back "home," it simply works against you. Unless you are very wealthy.

Oh yes, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't corrupt!

I didn't pay him to say that.

[HeijoshinCool]

I share a lot of concerns with OP. I was very happy with my upbringing in the west, and would very much like it if my kids could benefit from the same. So far I haven't come across the right balance in Thailand.

I have a brother and sister-in-law who are both in teaching back in the west. Their kids have been brought up very well - the parents' influence is no coincidence of course - and in decent areas. The school my brother used to teach at I wouldn't like to send my kids to or live in that area. The one my sister-in-law is at is better than most in Thailand and fine.

On the subject of racsim, my view is:

On the whole, racism is much more prevalent in Thailand than the West but less confrontational. In the West most people are generally less racist these days, and after years of education on the subject it shows in the average person's attitudes. On the other hand, the racists in the West although fewer in number are much more confrontational.

All good points.

Except, Columbine and Sandy Hook are in "decent" areas.

I have no faith whatsoever in "my" government to protect my children when I can't be there. I fear my government's mis/mal/nonfeasance will actually harm my children.

Here, the government doesn't try. But in the case of many things, that's for the best.

Edited December 18, 2012 by HeijoshinCool

[fletchsmile]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

For me you've just highlighted one of the biggest risks about attitudes in Thailand

You've modified your behaviour so that you now accept corruption as being the norm, and are now looking to see how to use it to your benefit, If you can't beat them join them

I wouldn't for a moment dream that corruption doesn't exist in the UK. The difference is most people don't tolerate it nor look for opportunities to join in and take advantage. Instead the attitude is often not tolerate to it, and to complain to authorties, the police, your employer, your MP, the press or whoever they think can take action. Culprits then sometimes get caught, action is sometimes taken, and sometimes people get punished. Hence much less tolerated and prevalent. Not perfect by any means, but your average decent person doesn't like it and doesn't tolerate it. In Thailand very few people even try to do anything about it and many like yourself just join in if they think they can benefit.

I'm no saint by any means, but I'm proud of the values I was brought up with, and that includes not seeking corrupt ways to benefit myself. I still know right from wrong even when I may mistakes. The difference in Thailand is many people see nothing wrong with corruption as long as they benefit

[Trembly]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

For me you've just highlighted one of the biggest risks about attitudes in Thailand

You've modified your behaviour so that you now accept corruption as being the norm, and are now looking to see how to use it to your benefit, If you can't beat them join them

I wouldn't for a moment dream that corruption doesn't exist in the UK. The difference is most people don't tolerate it nor look for opportunities to join in and take advantage. Instead the attitude is often not tolerate to it, and to complain to authorties, the police, your employer, your MP, the press or whoever they think can take action. Culprits then sometimes get caught, action is sometimes taken, and sometimes people get punished. Hence much less tolerated and prevalent. Not perfect by any means, but your average decent person doesn't like it and doesn't tolerate it. In Thailand very few people even try to do anything about it and many like yourself just join in if they think they can benefit.

I'm no saint by any means, but I'm proud of the values I was brought up with, and that includes not seeking corrupt ways to benefit myself. I still know right from wrong even when I may mistakes. The difference in Thailand is many people see nothing wrong with corruption as long as they benefit

The vast majority of the MPs who were proven to the public to have fiddled their expenses for significant sums of money are still in their seats. . . so they do tolerate it.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Trembly

[StreetCowboy]

Feel free to ignore my rant, but I can't help it but warn my fellow expats that this country is unfit for raising children.

I can't ignore it as you give what I believe is a wrong warning. I would recommend this country for raising kids for my fellow expats.

Also, the corruption thing - I'd much rather have it than back in my native Scotland. You have to know how to use corruption to your advantage.

For me you've just highlighted one of the biggest risks about attitudes in Thailand

You've modified your behaviour so that you now accept corruption as being the norm, and are now looking to see how to use it to your benefit, If you can't beat them join them

I wouldn't for a moment dream that corruption doesn't exist in the UK. The difference is most people don't tolerate it nor look for opportunities to join in and take advantage. Instead the attitude is often not tolerate to it, and to complain to authorties, the police, your employer, your MP, the press or whoever they think can take action. Culprits then sometimes get caught, action is sometimes taken, and sometimes people get punished. Hence much less tolerated and prevalent. Not perfect by any means, but your average decent person doesn't like it and doesn't tolerate it. In Thailand very few people even try to do anything about it and many like yourself just join in if they think they can benefit.

I'm no saint by any means, but I'm proud of the values I was brought up with, and that includes not seeking corrupt ways to benefit myself. I still know right from wrong even when I may mistakes. The difference in Thailand is many people see nothing wrong with corruption as long as they benefit

The vast majority of the MPs who were proven to the public to have fiddled their expenses for significant sums of money are still in their seats. . . so they do tolerate it.

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

In the UK, we get upset about corruption that sees politicians lining their pockets with thousands of pounds in tax payer's money.

SC

Edit: It seems, British MPs have tidied up their expense claims. How many night clubs and bars have been closed down in Bangkok because of failure to comply with fire regulations, licenses etc.?

Edited December 18, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[draftvader]

After twenty years I've decided to become a Thai citizen. Like you I had my doubts Around 10 years and nearly moved.

However my children have grown up fine and are angels compared to my old mates' kids raised in the UK.

They have had so many advantages here being half caste compared to other countries.

I am so Glad I didn't move As I as well as my kids and wife would be miserable.

Granted the kids education would be better but a very large price to pay for the gamble that they want to become brain surgeons.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

I am a Father of 2 young girls living here and I totally can totally relate to the above post and I also thought the OP's post was very good too, and anyone that knows me on here will know that I don't hand out compliments easily.

Without going into it all too much I know that this country is far from the perfect place to raise kids and everything the OP mentions is fair kop BUT I am from the UK and the thought of putting my kids through school in the UK and taking my mrs back there to live sends a cold shiver through my spine, my kids will probably be on the smack by the time they are 14....I am 100% staying put, warts an all.

This perception by some that if you put your kids through school in the west that they will leave school at 16 being these perfect people with great careers ahead of them is totally laughable, at least here they will respect the culture and their elders etc...

Just to cover 1 of your comments (BTW I'm British too). The schooling in England and the likelyhood of drugs, gangs, etc does increase the closer you get to the urban sprawl. If you bring your kids up in a decent small town you can live with a far better quality of life and a good chance of a decent education provided gratis. Find a small enough town and you don't have to worry about the post-code lottery for education.

I realise that this does limit your options and, in reality, puts me back squarely agreeing with hotandhumid. However if you CAN make it work for you and have work that allows you that kind of freedom then you can really make the UK work for you and your family. The tax rates aren't too bad if you take into consideration the cost of family life (i.e. education, healthcare, etc) in most of the rest of the world and what you get for your money in England (i.e. roads that don't break your car, world class healthcare, sanitation, pavements, crossings, safe driving standards, etc).

Get the right town and you might be 10 miles from a decent National Park, 10 miles from the beach and not have to worry too much about your children walking home from school and to each others houses. Use http://www.zoopla.co.uk/ to help make a decision.

I have a 1 year old British-British girl here and she is already treated differently. Unusually I am complaining even though most of this "differently" could be viewed as positive from one person's perspective, but it won't equip my daughter with a real version of the world if everybody keeps on holding her in high esteem JUST because of how she looks!

Yep, looks like we might be back in Blighty before our little one's 5th birthday. We'll have had a good run here and there are plenty of great things here, just not perfect enough for our little demographic. When we do go we will miss it...greatly!

[TommoPhysicist]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

So you think cold bloodedly planning to cheat the people who trusted in you is somehow better than accidentally knocking down a policeman and panicking?

[draftvader]

I have a couple of grown up kids who were educated in Canada and Australia now have three teenage Thai step kids...none are angels by any stretch but gotta believe that a child's development is mostly about their own strength of character/personalities coupled with a good deal of parental involvement.

Sure all kids are influenced by their classmates positively or negatively...want to be one of the guys etc and want experiment...don't mean they are all gonna be junkies or the class bike.

Whilst the education system here in Thailand has it's faults I notice that the teachers, be they Thai or foreign, are very quick to summon the wife whenever there is any problems.

Have a mate who took his 1/2 Thai son out of private school and is now in public school.....the child is much happier and his work has improved. He is also trilingual......

So one cannot generalize.... it is about the individual methinks.

Attended a Brit mixed grammar school a hundred years ago.....we were all such perfect individuals.....no violence,no sex, no booze, no drugs, no racism ( unless you were born outside Middlesex ) , no class bike...............right!??

Ahhh Middlsex. I still shudder with uncertain joy when I think back to my days in Ashford, Staines and Sunbury.

Englefield Green, Egham, Staines, Teddington and Twickenham myself. Middlesex, the address they kept because it was funny

[Fookhaht]

Would the OP care to tell us to what home country he/she is returning?

[PoorSucker]

Off topic post removed, this thread is not about US gun laws.

[StreetCowboy]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

So you think cold bloodedly planning to cheat the people who trusted in you is somehow better than accidentally knocking down a policeman and panicking?

I believe running people over is a matter of life and death.

I believe that attempting to pervert the course of justice is a very serious offence.

Perhaps if people took policemen more seriously, they would do a better job

SC

[hotandhumid]

After twenty years I've decided to become a Thai citizen. Like you I had my doubts Around 10 years and nearly moved.

However my children have grown up fine and are angels compared to my old mates' kids raised in the UK.

They have had so many advantages here being half caste compared to other countries.

I am so Glad I didn't move As I as well as my kids and wife would be miserable.

Granted the kids education would be better but a very large price to pay for the gamble that they want to become brain surgeons.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

I am a Father of 2 young girls living here and I totally can totally relate to the above post and I also thought the OP's post was very good too, and anyone that knows me on here will know that I don't hand out compliments easily.

Without going into it all too much I know that this country is far from the perfect place to raise kids and everything the OP mentions is fair kop BUT I am from the UK and the thought of putting my kids through school in the UK and taking my mrs back there to live sends a cold shiver through my spine, my kids will probably be on the smack by the time they are 14....I am 100% staying put, warts an all.

This perception by some that if you put your kids through school in the west that they will leave school at 16 being these perfect people with great careers ahead of them is totally laughable, at least here they will respect the culture and their elders etc...

Just to cover 1 of your comments (BTW I'm British too). The schooling in England and the likelyhood of drugs, gangs, etc does increase the closer you get to the urban sprawl. If you bring your kids up in a decent small town you can live with a far better quality of life and a good chance of a decent education provided gratis. Find a small enough town and you don't have to worry about the post-code lottery for education.

I realise that this does limit your options and, in reality, puts me back squarely agreeing with hotandhumid. However if you CAN make it work for you and have work that allows you that kind of freedom then you can really make the UK work for you and your family. The tax rates aren't too bad if you take into consideration the cost of family life (i.e. education, healthcare, etc) in most of the rest of the world and what you get for your money in England (i.e. roads that don't break your car, world class healthcare, sanitation, pavements, crossings, safe driving standards, etc).

Get the right town and you might be 10 miles from a decent National Park, 10 miles from the beach and not have to worry too much about your children walking home from school and to each others houses. Use http://www.zoopla.co.uk/ to help make a decision.

I have a 1 year old British-British girl here and she is already treated differently. Unusually I am complaining even though most of this "differently" could be viewed as positive from one person's perspective, but it won't equip my daughter with a real version of the world if everybody keeps on holding her in high esteem JUST because of how she looks!

Yep, looks like we might be back in Blighty before our little one's 5th birthday. We'll have had a good run here and there are plenty of great things here, just not perfect enough for our little demographic. When we do go we will miss it...greatly!

World class healthcare?? Are you sure, the hospitals in the UK are a disgrace, and besides how often does one end up in hospital in their lifes? Certainly not a reason for going back, unless you are old and on your last legs. Funny enough when I was back last my old mum didn't stop complaining about the state of the pavments there, then again at least there ARE pavements.

Best of luck if you do go back, you will need it!

Edited December 18, 2012 by hotandhumid

[Trembly]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

In the UK, we get upset about corruption that sees politicians lining their pockets with thousands of pounds in tax payer's money.

SC

Edit: It seems, British MPs have tidied up their expense claims. How many night clubs and bars have been closed down in Bangkok because of failure to comply with fire regulations, licenses etc.?

You've missed the point with your whataboutery. Thai people also tolerate corruption. I'll go further and say Thais are largely under very few illusions about how just how rotten their system is and are so jaded by it that they will seldom hesitate to engage in the corruption themselves - there, happy? - unlike in the west, where there is a critical mass of taxpayers naive enough to enable the mendacity to operate on a scale and sophistication that compromises everyone far more insidiously.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Trembly

[twinpin]

I would like to wish the OP good luck. I came back to the Uk I have no regrets.

2 years in Thailand was quite sufficient for me for all the reasons the OP as pointed out.

Do I miss Thailand ? Not one bit. Sure it has it's attractions but the bad bits far outweigh the good.

If you come on a vacation then you will no doubt have a memorable time. But it's quite another story living in Thailand.

[StreetCowboy]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

In the UK, we get upset about corruption that sees politicians lining their pockets with thousands of pounds in tax payer's money.

SC

Edit: It seems, British MPs have tidied up their expense claims. How many night clubs and bars have been closed down in Bangkok because of failure to comply with fire regulations, licenses etc.?

You've missed the point with your whataboutery. Thai people also tolerate corruption. I'll go further and say Thais are largely under very few illusions about how just how rotten their system is and are so jaded by it that they will seldom hesitate to engage in the corruption themselves - there, happy? - unlike in the west, where there is a critical mass of taxpayers naive enough to enable the mendacity to operate on a scale and sophistication that compromises everyone far more insidiously.

I don't really understand.

Are you saying

a ) that corruption is a good thing, and one of the advantages that Thailand has over the West?

b ) that corruption is a bad thing, but the UK is more corrupt than Thailand?

I disagree on both counts, but I have never seen anyone change their mind on the internet, so perhaps we'll just leave it there

SC

[draftvader]

After twenty years I've decided to become a Thai citizen. Like you I had my doubts Around 10 years and nearly moved.

However my children have grown up fine and are angels compared to my old mates' kids raised in the UK.

They have had so many advantages here being half caste compared to other countries.

I am so Glad I didn't move As I as well as my kids and wife would be miserable.

Granted the kids education would be better but a very large price to pay for the gamble that they want to become brain surgeons.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

I am a Father of 2 young girls living here and I totally can totally relate to the above post and I also thought the OP's post was very good too, and anyone that knows me on here will know that I don't hand out compliments easily.

Without going into it all too much I know that this country is far from the perfect place to raise kids and everything the OP mentions is fair kop BUT I am from the UK and the thought of putting my kids through school in the UK and taking my mrs back there to live sends a cold shiver through my spine, my kids will probably be on the smack by the time they are 14....I am 100% staying put, warts an all.

This perception by some that if you put your kids through school in the west that they will leave school at 16 being these perfect people with great careers ahead of them is totally laughable, at least here they will respect the culture and their elders etc...

Just to cover 1 of your comments (BTW I'm British too). The schooling in England and the likelyhood of drugs, gangs, etc does increase the closer you get to the urban sprawl. If you bring your kids up in a decent small town you can live with a far better quality of life and a good chance of a decent education provided gratis. Find a small enough town and you don't have to worry about the post-code lottery for education.

I realise that this does limit your options and, in reality, puts me back squarely agreeing with hotandhumid. However if you CAN make it work for you and have work that allows you that kind of freedom then you can really make the UK work for you and your family. The tax rates aren't too bad if you take into consideration the cost of family life (i.e. education, healthcare, etc) in most of the rest of the world and what you get for your money in England (i.e. roads that don't break your car, world class healthcare, sanitation, pavements, crossings, safe driving standards, etc).

Get the right town and you might be 10 miles from a decent National Park, 10 miles from the beach and not have to worry too much about your children walking home from school and to each others houses. Use http://www.zoopla.co.uk/ to help make a decision.

I have a 1 year old British-British girl here and she is already treated differently. Unusually I am complaining even though most of this "differently" could be viewed as positive from one person's perspective, but it won't equip my daughter with a real version of the world if everybody keeps on holding her in high esteem JUST because of how she looks!

Yep, looks like we might be back in Blighty before our little one's 5th birthday. We'll have had a good run here and there are plenty of great things here, just not perfect enough for our little demographic. When we do go we will miss it...greatly!

World class healthcare?? Are you sure, the hospitals in the UK are a disgrace, and besides how often does one end up in hospital in their lifes? Certainly not a reason for going back, unless you are old and on your last legs. Funny enough when I was back last my old mum didn't stop complaining about the state of the pavments there, then again at least there ARE pavements.

Best of luck if you do go back, you will need it!

I can't take that. Again it all depends on where you are. The UK's healthcare system still provides a large proportion of the leading medical research in the world along with superb professionals. Some hospitals in the UK do fall below the mark, but a lot of the UK's hospitals rank amongst the best in the world.

I spent 3 years working providing software solutions into the NHS and, as such, have been around a large quantity of the UK's healthcare trusts as a guest of the trustees. I have seen the good and the bad. I have also traveled the world and seen healthcare all over the world. What the UK has is still world class and, more importantly, available to all.

------EDIT - Just remembered------

Trembly. I remember you stating Staines, Sunbury and Ashford. Unfortunately your experience of the NHS will not have been good if you had ever been to Ashford Hospital as Ashford and St Peter's Hospital Trust is not (by a long stretch) the best in the country. Nearby Heatherwood, Upton Park or Windsor Hospitals are no better either.

You have to balance this with a hospital like Addenbrooke's (Cambridge). I was unfortunate enough to leave the side of the road at 70mph in my car and land in a field. From that point on I got more and more fortunate. I was taken to Addenbrooke's which just happens to be one of the best A&Es in the country. In another example I took a friend with a dislocated shoulder (rugby injury) to Kingston A&E at 10pm on a Saturday night. They took one look at him and he was in the theater within 30 minutes, jumping a queue of undeserving drunkards. These 2 hospitals can show you why the NHS is so good (you don't want to be ANYWHERE other than Kingston if you have a neurological problem....ANYWHERE).

The only criticism I can give of the NHS is that the treatment is not consistent throughout the country. Again this is something you can choose. Live in Kingston-Upon-Thames and you might have some crime issues but you can have access to 2 top ten government schools (Tiffin Boys and Tiffin Girls) and a world class hospital.

Edited December 18, 2012 by draftvader

[chiangmaikelly]

Would the OP care to tell us to what home country he/she is returning?

That makes sense. Right now it is just a Thai bashing or not bashing thread. If we knew the OP home country we could make it a that country bashing thread too.

Edited December 18, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[Trembly]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

In the UK, we get upset about corruption that sees politicians lining their pockets with thousands of pounds in tax payer's money.

SC

Edit: It seems, British MPs have tidied up their expense claims. How many night clubs and bars have been closed down in Bangkok because of failure to comply with fire regulations, licenses etc.?

You've missed the point with your whataboutery. Thai people also tolerate corruption. I'll go further and say Thais are largely under very few illusions about how just how rotten their system is and are so jaded by it that they will seldom hesitate to engage in the corruption themselves - there, happy? - unlike in the west, where there is a critical mass of taxpayers naive enough to enable the mendacity to operate on a scale and sophistication that compromises everyone far more insidiously.

I don't really understand.

Are you saying

a ) that corruption is a good thing, and one of the advantages that Thailand has over the West?

b ) that corruption is a bad thing, but the UK is more corrupt than Thailand?

I disagree on both counts, but I have never seen anyone change their mind on the internet, so perhaps we'll just leave it there

SC

Neither.

My earlier point was that intolerance of corruption in the west is patently untrue, as evidenced not so long ago in the UK by the fact that most of the MPs who were publicly exposed as coldly and calculatingly shafting taxpayers for large sums of money for their personal gain still largely have their seats in parliament.

There were very few prosecutions despite the already damning prima facie evidence. The entire 'system' the electorate were supposed to be able to depend on for justice dragged their feet until the media felt like it was the right time to drop the stories and that's where the matter stayed. So what are the people doing about it?

There appears to be very little ground level corruption in the west, which has some obvious benefits for everyone, not least for those corrupt persons who would rather go for the higher hanging fruit without the people looking past the 'pristine' lower branches.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Trembly

[Hedghog]

Bet is?

Can you cut the mustard in Farangland.

[draftvader]

Some people distinguish between fiddling your expenses and running down a policeman.

How are the Santika prosecutions going?

In the UK, we get upset about corruption that sees politicians lining their pockets with thousands of pounds in tax payer's money.

SC

Edit: It seems, British MPs have tidied up their expense claims. How many night clubs and bars have been closed down in Bangkok because of failure to comply with fire regulations, licenses etc.?

You've missed the point with your whataboutery. Thai people also tolerate corruption. I'll go further and say Thais are largely under very few illusions about how just how rotten their system is and are so jaded by it that they will seldom hesitate to engage in the corruption themselves - there, happy? - unlike in the west, where there is a critical mass of taxpayers naive enough to enable the mendacity to operate on a scale and sophistication that compromises everyone far more insidiously.

I don't really understand.

Are you saying

a ) that corruption is a good thing, and one of the advantages that Thailand has over the West?

b ) that corruption is a bad thing, but the UK is more corrupt than Thailand?

I disagree on both counts, but I have never seen anyone change their mind on the internet, so perhaps we'll just leave it there

SC

Neither.

My earlier point was that intolerance of corruption in the west is patently untrue, as evidenced not so long ago in the UK by the fact that the most of the MPs who were publicly exposed to have been coldly and calculatingly shafting taxpayers for large sums of money for their personal gain still largely have their seats in parliament. There were very few prosecutions despite the already damning prima facie evidence and the entire 'system' the electorate were supposed to be able to depend on for justice dragged their feet until the media felt like it was a safe time to drop the stories and that's where the matter stayed. So what are the people doing about it?

There appears to be very little ground level corruption in the west, which has some obvious benefits for everyone, not least those corrupt persons who would rather go for the higher hanging fruit without the people looking past the 'pristine' lower branches.

Show me a corruption free country anywhere in the world. Seriously. Good luck.