In Britain, his ‘open door’ immigration policies have been criticised by all sides.

But in Poland, which was transformed by entry into the EU, Tony Blair is feted as a hero.

And yesterday the former Prime Minister was handed a special award for helping hundreds of thousands of Poles come to live in the UK.

He was honoured with the gong at the annual Polish Business Leaders Awards ceremony in Warsaw.

Mr Blair's prize paid tribute to his backing for Poland’s efforts to join the EU, opening up the British labour market to Poles and overseeing a growth in trade between the two countries while in office.

A golden statuette was accepted in his absence by Robin Barnett, Britain’s ambassador in Poland.

But Mr Blair recorded a video message for the audience at Warsaw’s National Opera house, in which he said ‘I have a lot of admiration for Poland and the Polish people’.

He also praised the Business Centre Club, a group of 2,500 influential commercial leaders which organises the awards, for its ‘fantastic work’ at a ‘tough time economically’.

The award, referred to as the ‘Special Prize’, is awarded to a figure from outside the world of business who has helped Poland.

Previous winners include Margaret Thatcher, Bill Clinton and Bertie Ahern. Mr Blair shared it with two Poles, former defence minister Janusz Onyszkiewicz and former deputy prime minister Janusz Steinhoff.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2JS5sK02x

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

remember that story from a last week - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265592/The-mother-told-truth-immigration-BBC-Rachel-Bull-explains-HAD-speak-Question-Time.html

i dont think it is a case of the UK population waking up, but the government !,

I wonder whether or not Mr Blair will receive an award from Pakistan? He certainly ought to on the basis of results, if immigration to the UK is the yardstick. Hopefully the government has woken up, but I beg to differ if you were suggesting the UK population as a whole hasn't, based on recent surveys that have immigration as the no 1 area of concern.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3549/britain-immigration

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

bad karma

When he was first elected PM, the New Statesman had a cover with the words "Blairway to Heaven".

Polish is now acknowledged to be the second language in the UK, with Urdu and Punjabi following behind (Baroness Saeeda Varsi last night on Question Time).

Remember also that Tony Blair created the second Iraq War with nisinformation passed to Dubya from MI6, after being instructed what to report by said TB.

Unfortunately the current idiot-in-charge is also involving us in wars that he does not understand. He bombs the most stable country in North Africa (Libya) because the strong-man has been vilified for decades. He supplies arms to the tribalists opposing Gaddafi, who are then infiltrated by Islamists. These infiltrators then go on to infiltrate the Tuareg independence movement in Northern Mali, which is a miltary dictatorship (not a bad thing in itself, but not doing the Tuareg any favours) and the gruesome twosome of France and GB turn up again to face their own weapons while trying to slap down the revolting bedu.

The Islamists will, of course, move on to another location as they have for the past several years.

I would suggest that within ten years they will have taken over the North of Nigeria (already eairly fundamentalist) and work their way down towards River State, the Delta and the oil, precipitating another Biafra war.

Whoever is in government in the UK then will open the gates to twenty million refugees from Nigeria and thus lead the UK back to third-world status in a twelvemonth.

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

Wonderful irony that a Forum largely, if not exclusively, populated by emigrants/immigrants should harbour such anti-immigrant opinions. Perhaps the Thai or Spanish governments should take heed of such erudite viewpoints and cleanse the Costas, Pattaya, Phuket etc of foreign low-lifes corrupting their host nations and stealing jobs (or for whatever fatuous, unfounded made-up nonsense beloved of the anti-immigration crew). Taking Brits alone there are somewhere north of 6 million British national emigrants/immigrants scattered around the world, culturally enriching many a "corner of a foreign field that is for ever England".

While the Daily Mail and similar publications may froth and seethe about job stealing, benefit scrounging foreigners swamping our fair shores, it is a simple rag-bag of populist, racism (traditional activity of the Daily Mail with a long history of such "reporting"), dressed up as national concern.

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

Perhaps employers prefer people who can spell and are able to construct simple sentences in recognizable English......

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

Wonderful irony that a Forum largely, if not exclusively, populated by emigrants/immigrants should harbour such anti-immigrant opinions. Perhaps the Thai or Spanish governments should take heed of such erudite viewpoints and cleanse the Costas, Pattaya, Phuket etc of foreign low-lifes corrupting their host nations and stealing jobs (or for whatever fatuous, unfounded made-up nonsense beloved of the anti-immigration crew). Taking Brits alone there are somewhere north of 6 million British national emigrants/immigrants scattered around the world, culturally enriching many a "corner of a foreign field that is for ever England".

While the Daily Mail and similar publications may froth and seethe about job stealing, benefit scrounging foreigners swamping our fair shores, it is a simple rag-bag of populist, racism (traditional activity of the Daily Mail with a long history of such "reporting"), dressed up as national concern.

Ironic, only if foreigners from any given place are over represented in the jails and responsible for huge levels of benefit fraud, which I admit would be tricky in Thailand. Still Folium, it must come as an unwelcome shock to you that the majority of Britains are bigots, racists or xenophobes, as dictated by the fraudulent lexicon of the liberal-left. Other recent surveys show 76% of Britons think Islam is incompatible with British life and 37% think there should be less Muslims in the UK and measures should be taken to reduce the number.

Also, shock , horreur, it gets no better over the channel, where 74% think the religion of peace is an intolerant religion.

P.S Instead of source policing a mainstream newspaper would you care to address the figures they come up with, or better still find a Thai survey showing great concern about the number of ex-SAS propping up the bars in Pattaya.

Those bloody Poles get everywhere!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2272393/Pilot-survived-Russian-gulag-making-Britain-fly-Spitfires-RAF-WW2-laid-rest-aged-91.html#axzz2JjWuvyXa

IMHO he should stand Trail for destroying Great Britain !,

Now i am in the UK, every labor job is taken by eastern Europeans, plus all bars / restaurants are also full of them .... which would be ok if it wasnt taking away jobs from the brits

10 years ago, being a plummer./ brick layer ect used to be a highly paid job for brits, but not anymore !,

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

Wonderful irony that a Forum largely, if not exclusively, populated by emigrants/immigrants should harbour such anti-immigrant opinions. Perhaps the Thai or Spanish governments should take heed of such erudite viewpoints and cleanse the Costas, Pattaya, Phuket etc of foreign low-lifes corrupting their host nations and stealing jobs (or for whatever fatuous, unfounded made-up nonsense beloved of the anti-immigration crew). Taking Brits alone there are somewhere north of 6 million British national emigrants/immigrants scattered around the world, culturally enriching many a "corner of a foreign field that is for ever England".

While the Daily Mail and similar publications may froth and seethe about job stealing, benefit scrounging foreigners swamping our fair shores, it is a simple rag-bag of populist, racism (traditional activity of the Daily Mail with a long history of such "reporting"), dressed up as national concern.

Ironic, only if foreigners from any given place are over represented in the jails and responsible for huge levels of benefit fraud, which I admit would be tricky in Thailand. Still Folium, it must come as an unwelcome shock to you that the majority of Britains are bigots, racists or xenophobes, as dictated by the fraudulent lexicon of the liberal-left. Other recent surveys show 76% of Britons think Islam is incompatible with British life and 37% think there should be less Muslims in the UK and measures should be taken to reduce the number.

Also, shock , horreur, it gets no better over the channel, where 74% think the religion of peace is an intolerant religion.

What does Islam have to do with the Polish ?

A Questiontime program came from Lincoln recently and the question was posed as to whether high levels of immigration were a problem in nearby Boston. A panel guest from Cambridge university opined no, but a local woman got up and made a speech about the town being near to collapse due to the numbers - which was greeted by silence then loud applause. The UK may finally be waking up to the evil that Sith Lord Blair inflicted on the British nation - he should be tried for treason.

Wonderful irony that a Forum largely, if not exclusively, populated by emigrants/immigrants should harbour such anti-immigrant opinions. Perhaps the Thai or Spanish governments should take heed of such erudite viewpoints and cleanse the Costas, Pattaya, Phuket etc of foreign low-lifes corrupting their host nations and stealing jobs (or for whatever fatuous, unfounded made-up nonsense beloved of the anti-immigration crew). Taking Brits alone there are somewhere north of 6 million British national emigrants/immigrants scattered around the world, culturally enriching many a "corner of a foreign field that is for ever England".

While the Daily Mail and similar publications may froth and seethe about job stealing, benefit scrounging foreigners swamping our fair shores, it is a simple rag-bag of populist, racism (traditional activity of the Daily Mail with a long history of such "reporting"), dressed up as national concern.

Ironic, only if foreigners from any given place are over represented in the jails and responsible for huge levels of benefit fraud, which I admit would be tricky in Thailand. Still Folium, it must come as an unwelcome shock to you that the majority of Britains are bigots, racists or xenophobes, as dictated by the fraudulent lexicon of the liberal-left. Other recent surveys show 76% of Britons think Islam is incompatible with British life and 37% think there should be less Muslims in the UK and measures should be taken to reduce the number.

Also, shock , horreur, it gets no better over the channel, where 74% think the religion of peace is an intolerant religion.

What does Islam have to do with the Polish ?

Can't let a good opportunity go to waste apparently...

Also the Poles probably pass muster given the fact they are white and Christian (albeit Catholic which may enrage some of the frothers).

Those bloody Poles get everywhere!

http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2JjWuvyXa

Which reminds me of the wonderful poster used by those charming folk of the BNP, who are not too keen on immigrants...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1158970/BNP-shot-uses-POLISH-Spitfire-anti-immigration-campaign.html#axzz2Jh8pjosh

Using a Polish-piloted Spitfire to press the case against immigration is pretty dumb even by the knuckle-dragging standards of Nick Griffin and his cohorts....

Polish is now acknowledged to be the second language in the UK, with Urdu and Punjabi following behind (Baroness Saeeda Varsi last night on Question Time).

Remember also that Tony Blair created the second Iraq War with nisinformation passed to Dubya from MI6, after being instructed what to report by said TB.

Unfortunately the current idiot-in-charge is also involving us in wars that he does not understand. He bombs the most stable country in North Africa (Libya) because the strong-man has been vilified for decades. He supplies arms to the tribalists opposing Gaddafi, who are then infiltrated by Islamists. These infiltrators then go on to infiltrate the Tuareg independence movement in Northern Mali, which is a miltary dictatorship (not a bad thing in itself, but not doing the Tuareg any favours) and the gruesome twosome of France and GB turn up again to face their own weapons while trying to slap down the revolting bedu.

The Islamists will, of course, move on to another location as they have for the past several years.

I would suggest that within ten years they will have taken over the North of Nigeria (already eairly fundamentalist) and work their way down towards River State, the Delta and the oil, precipitating another Biafra war.

Whoever is in government in the UK then will open the gates to twenty million refugees from Nigeria and thus lead the UK back to third-world status in a twelvemonth.

An interesting take on geopolitics...

Perhaps you somewhat overstate Tony Blair as the prime instigator of Gulf War 2...

Your comments re Libya and Qaddafi are risible though.. the idea that Qaddafi was a funny little dictator who did beastly things to his own people but didn't cause much fuss elsewhere, and was not even very muslim, is simply not supported by those tricky old fashioned things called facts...

In a nutshell (somewhat appropriate word given the subject), Qaddafi caused trouble globally on an epic scale, and was responsible for the death of thousands worldwide.

He invaded/intervened militarily/undertook operations/trained/fought wars with/in: Chad, Egypt, CAR, Uganda, Darfur/Sudan, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Cyprus, USA, Zimbabwe.

He armed, funded and trained terrorist organizations/terrorist acts with such delightful groups as PIRA (UK), JRA (worldwide), RAF (Germany), Black September, any Palestinian faction, Red Brigades (Italy), <deleted>/NPA/Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines. He even tried to instigate violence through Maoris and Aboriginals in Oceania, and plotted with terrorist groups in a totally indiscriminate fashion. My "enemy's enemy is my friend" was his only stipulation.

In Mali, and the rest of Sahelian Africa, Qaddafi long funded/trained and supported Tuareg separatist organizations and used them as expendable mercenaries during the recent Civil War.

Re the weaponry in Mali, given the fact that the Tuareg mercenaries fought for Qaddafi I can't quite see NATO or even Qatar dropping weapons off with them during the Libyan Civil War! Qaddafi had stockpiled vast quantities of hardware across Libya and the looting and subsequent trading of this equipment is what accounts for most of the weaponry now being used by the insurgents in Mali.

And I forgot to mention that Qaddafi had extensive quantities of chemical weapons (used against at least Chadian troops in the Aozou Strip), and had badgered all rogue nuclear states and the Soviet Union for a nuclear capability. One wish that was sadly never granted, apparently...

Such a nice guy, the world is definitely better off without him, whatever the "blowback".

PS not many Bedu or Bedouin in Mali.

Mystified by the 20million Nigerian refugees plunging the UK into third world status in a "twelvemonth"...??

Those bloody Poles get everywhere!

http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2JjWuvyXa

Which reminds me of the wonderful poster used by those charming folk of the BNP, who are not too keen on immigrants...

http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2Jh8pjosh

Using a Polish-piloted Spitfire to press the case against immigration is pretty dumb even by the knuckle-dragging standards of Nick Griffin and his cohorts....

Funny you should mention Polish spitfire pilots because the woman who stood up on question time to state Boston was being overwhelmed by Eastern Europeans was herself the grand daughter of a Polish spitfire pilot, so she can't exactly be prejudiced against the Poles. I see you continue to put up a diversionary smokescreen and refuse to even address the fact that immigration is the No1 area of public concern in the UK.

What does Islam have to do with the Polish ?

Can't let a good opportunity go to waste apparently...

Also the Poles probably pass muster given the fact they are white and Christian (albeit Catholic which may enrage some of the frothers).

The Poles do indeed pass muster, given they don't actively detest their host culture and are hence not heavily over represented in crime statistics and the prison population. However that is not to say large numbers of immigrants from anywhere whatsoever will not put a strain on the jobs market, housing, social services etc etc.

And yes, I did mention Islam seeing as Muslim immigrants do cause more problems than the Poles - I've yet to read of any 'Pole controlled zone' notices enforcing Polish Catholic norms (whatever they may be) on the indigenous population, nor come across Poles burning the Union Jack, or groups of Poles systematically grooming and raping underage girls.

P.S As an aside there is a problem with human trafficking for the vice industry in the UK, but that's Albanians, not Poles.

Those bloody Poles get everywhere!

http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2JjWuvyXa

Which reminds me of the wonderful poster used by those charming folk of the BNP, who are not too keen on immigrants...

http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2Jh8pjosh

Using a Polish-piloted Spitfire to press the case against immigration is pretty dumb even by the knuckle-dragging standards of Nick Griffin and his cohorts....

Funny you should mention Polish spitfire pilots because the woman who stood up on question time to state Boston was being overwhelmed by Eastern Europeans was herself the grand daughter of a Polish spitfire pilot, so she can't exactly be prejudiced against the Poles. I see you continue to put up a diversionary smokescreen and refuse to even address the fact that immigration is the No1 area of public concern in the UK.

There are probably as many "Spitfire pilots" as there are SAS saddo walter mitty's in Pattaya. Mrs Bull from Boston had a Polish grandmother who served as an RAF driver and her Polish grandfather served as a rear gunner on a Lancaster in the non-indigenous, cultural enriching/ cultural preserving 300 Squadron (Polish) RAF.

Have a read of this excellent article on the issue of immigration. Your point on immigration being the number one issue in the UK is wrong by just over 5 years, see Fig 3 in the article. Tragically immigration is more of an issue in the UK than many other countries, but the bottom line is that an anti immigration policy is the last thing any rational country would desire and pandering to populist/ covert racist political groupings or media outlets is to the long term detriment of the country. Sure no situation is devoid of downside for some people in some locations but the overall impact and role of migration is hugely positive, a point that can probably resonate with most of the inveterate migrants that populate this Forum.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern

An interesting take on geopolitics...

Perhaps you somewhat overstate Tony Blair as the prime instigator of Gulf War 2...

Your comments re Libya and Qaddafi are risible though.. the idea that Qaddafi was a funny little dictator who did beastly things to his own people but didn't cause much fuss elsewhere, and was not even very muslim, is simply not supported by those tricky old fashioned things called facts...

In a nutshell (somewhat appropriate word given the subject), Qaddafi caused trouble globally on an epic scale, and was responsible for the death of thousands worldwide.

He invaded/intervened militarily/undertook operations/trained/fought wars with/in: Chad, Egypt, CAR, Uganda, Darfur/Sudan, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Cyprus, USA, Zimbabwe.

He armed, funded and trained terrorist organizations/terrorist acts with such delightful groups as PIRA (UK), JRA (worldwide), RAF (Germany), Black September, any Palestinian faction, Red Brigades (Italy), <deleted>/NPA/Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines. He even tried to instigate violence through Maoris and Aboriginals in Oceania, and plotted with terrorist groups in a totally indiscriminate fashion. My "enemy's enemy is my friend" was his only stipulation.

In Mali, and the rest of Sahelian Africa, Qaddafi long funded/trained and supported Tuareg separatist organizations and used them as expendable mercenaries during the recent Civil War.

Re the weaponry in Mali, given the fact that the Tuareg mercenaries fought for Qaddafi I can't quite see NATO or even Qatar dropping weapons off with them during the Libyan Civil War! Qaddafi had stockpiled vast quantities of hardware across Libya and the looting and subsequent trading of this equipment is what accounts for most of the weaponry now being used by the insurgents in Mali.

And I forgot to mention that Qaddafi had extensive quantities of chemical weapons (used against at least Chadian troops in the Aozou Strip), and had badgered all rogue nuclear states and the Soviet Union for a nuclear capability. One wish that was sadly never granted, apparently...

Such a nice guy, the world is definitely better off without him, whatever the "blowback".

PS not many Bedu or Bedouin in Mali.

Mystified by the 20million Nigerian refugees plunging the UK into third world status in a "twelvemonth"...??

Quick response -

Having lived and worked in Libya (mainly Benghazi) throughout the 1980s, and returning there in 2001 for a brief spell in Tripoli, I had a little experience with the internal structure of the country.

As with most Middle East / North African countries, strong leader is needed who can control the seething passions of the population. Nowhere have I found an understanding of the discipline needed to make 'popular democracy' work, the sheep-like acceptance that is so evident in Western countries.

With regard to the sponsoring of armed freedom fighters - he (Gaddafi) believed in anti-colonial attitudes and anyone who came to him with the cry "I want to be free" got themselves aid to throw off the chains of their colonial masters. That covers most of the countries you list.

His anti-Islamist attitude can be shown by the way he threw any returning zealot from Pakistan straight from the plane to the jail. He did not mess around 'keeping an eye on persons of interest' as our security people do, he acted quickly. Neither did he allow drugs to be transported across his territory to Europe, as the other North African countries do. He further controlled the migrants heading for Europe - at one time there were close to a quarter million sub-Saharan Africans held in Libya and not allowed to cross the Med. (I believe he was being paid by UK, France and Italy to hold them).

Although I regret the shameful murder of the man, and regret the passing of a man I had met several times, my main bitch about the idiotic actions of Sakozy and Camoron is that they have opened the whole of North Africa to fundamental Islamists, incompatible with even Maltese culture, let alone the Western European mores and customs.

Your final comments on Nigeria - having worked there as well - the Northern Muslim tribes will receive support from the Islamists, as their interpretation of Islam is already fairly fundamental, including Sharia laws and punishments. They will almost certainly defeat the Southern Christian tribes (who have the oil) and most will be driven to seek refuge elsewher. Many have relatives in the UK and will arrive on our shores in far greater numbers than the Ugandan Asians - and without the entrepreneurial spirit of the latter.

Look back in this forum and see how many of my forecasts have proved correct!

An interesting take on geopolitics...

Perhaps you somewhat overstate Tony Blair as the prime instigator of Gulf War 2...

Your comments re Libya and Qaddafi are risible though.. the idea that Qaddafi was a funny little dictator who did beastly things to his own people but didn't cause much fuss elsewhere, and was not even very muslim, is simply not supported by those tricky old fashioned things called facts...

In a nutshell (somewhat appropriate word given the subject), Qaddafi caused trouble globally on an epic scale, and was responsible for the death of thousands worldwide.

He invaded/intervened militarily/undertook operations/trained/fought wars with/in: Chad, Egypt, CAR, Uganda, Darfur/Sudan, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Cyprus, USA, Zimbabwe.

He armed, funded and trained terrorist organizations/terrorist acts with such delightful groups as PIRA (UK), JRA (worldwide), RAF (Germany), Black September, any Palestinian faction, Red Brigades (Italy), <deleted>/NPA/Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines. He even tried to instigate violence through Maoris and Aboriginals in Oceania, and plotted with terrorist groups in a totally indiscriminate fashion. My "enemy's enemy is my friend" was his only stipulation.

In Mali, and the rest of Sahelian Africa, Qaddafi long funded/trained and supported Tuareg separatist organizations and used them as expendable mercenaries during the recent Civil War.

Re the weaponry in Mali, given the fact that the Tuareg mercenaries fought for Qaddafi I can't quite see NATO or even Qatar dropping weapons off with them during the Libyan Civil War! Qaddafi had stockpiled vast quantities of hardware across Libya and the looting and subsequent trading of this equipment is what accounts for most of the weaponry now being used by the insurgents in Mali.

And I forgot to mention that Qaddafi had extensive quantities of chemical weapons (used against at least Chadian troops in the Aozou Strip), and had badgered all rogue nuclear states and the Soviet Union for a nuclear capability. One wish that was sadly never granted, apparently...

Such a nice guy, the world is definitely better off without him, whatever the "blowback".

PS not many Bedu or Bedouin in Mali.

Mystified by the 20million Nigerian refugees plunging the UK into third world status in a "twelvemonth"...??

Quick response -

Having lived and worked in Libya (mainly Benghazi) throughout the 1980s, and returning there in 2001 for a brief spell in Tripoli, I had a little experience with the internal structure of the country.

As with most Middle East / North African countries, strong leader is needed who can control the seething passions of the population. Nowhere have I found an understanding of the discipline needed to make 'popular democracy' work, the sheep-like acceptance that is so evident in Western countries.

With regard to the sponsoring of armed freedom fighters - he (Gaddafi) believed in anti-colonial attitudes and anyone who came to him with the cry "I want to be free" got themselves aid to throw off the chains of their colonial masters. That covers most of the countries you list.

His anti-Islamist attitude can be shown by the way he threw any returning zealot from Pakistan straight from the plane to the jail. He did not mess around 'keeping an eye on persons of interest' as our security people do, he acted quickly. Neither did he allow drugs to be transported across his territory to Europe, as the other North African countries do. He further controlled the migrants heading for Europe - at one time there were close to a quarter million sub-Saharan Africans held in Libya and not allowed to cross the Med. (I believe he was being paid by UK, France and Italy to hold them).

Although I regret the shameful murder of the man, and regret the passing of a man I had met several times, my main bitch about the idiotic actions of Sakozy and Camoron is that they have opened the whole of North Africa to fundamental Islamists, incompatible with even Maltese culture, let alone the Western European mores and customs.

Your final comments on Nigeria - having worked there as well - the Northern Muslim tribes will receive support from the Islamists, as their interpretation of Islam is already fairly fundamental, including Sharia laws and punishments. They will almost certainly defeat the Southern Christian tribes (who have the oil) and most will be driven to seek refuge elsewher. Many have relatives in the UK and will arrive on our shores in far greater numbers than the Ugandan Asians - and without the entrepreneurial spirit of the latter.

Look back in this forum and see how many of my forecasts have proved correct!

Nice to see some facts based on experience. The absurd notion that all the current flare-ups in Africa are due only to local factors is well and truly discredited. Instead fundamentalist Islamists have run with the ball given to them by confused and incompetent western policies towards the continent.

\

Have a read of this excellent article on the issue of immigration. Your point on immigration being the number one issue in the UK is wrong by just over 5 years, see Fig 3 in the article. Tragically immigration is more of an issue in the UK than many other countries, but the bottom line is that an anti immigration policy is the last thing any rational country would desire and pandering to populist/ covert racist political groupings or media outlets is to the long term detriment of the country. Sure no situation is devoid of downside for some people in some locations but the overall impact and role of migration is hugely positive, a point that can probably resonate with most of the inveterate migrants that populate this Forum.

http://migrationobse...d-level-concern

You cling to two Lib-left canards, one being that immigration is nearly always positive, the other being those opposed to current immigration policy are either racists, bigots or xenophobes.

Much depends on the cultural/educational background of prospective immigrants. If the British government had taken the opportunity presented by a reasonably healthy economy in 1997 and granted full British passports to all 3.5 million Hong Kong Chinese we would be in an infinitely more healthy position now. To take in millions of uneducated immigrants with third world backgrounds brings third world problems, unless the influx is gradual. Eastern Europeans may be able to drive buses or provide cheap agricultural workers, but the profits made by some doing this disappear considering the larger picture of unemployed Britons, who won't do such jobs because the social security system allows them not to.

There is also an attendant myth you are probably not considering, namely that a population needs to constantly rise to keep the economy going. This is only true due to high levels of national debt, which are serviced by an influx of people to be given credit to keep the system afloat. It matters not a jot whether the jobs are sustainable, just so long as the short term costs of government are paid.

Overhaul education to make vocational training again more common than sociology degrees, make welfare benefits contingent on doing some productive work and only allow immigration at a rate which does not result in non-assimilating ghettos developing. It's common sense, the majority of British people see it so, and it is not racist to put it bluntly either.

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Have a read of this excellent article on the issue of immigration. Your point on immigration being the number one issue in the UK is wrong by just over 5 years, see Fig 3 in the article. Tragically immigration is more of an issue in the UK than many other countries, but the bottom line is that an anti immigration policy is the last thing any rational country would desire and pandering to populist/ covert racist political groupings or media outlets is to the long term detriment of the country. Sure no situation is devoid of downside for some people in some locations but the overall impact and role of migration is hugely positive, a point that can probably resonate with most of the inveterate migrants that populate this Forum.

http://migrationobse...d-level-concern

You cling to two Lib-left canards, one being that immigration is nearly always positive, the other being those opposed to current immigration policy are either racists, bigots or xenophobes.

Much depends on the cultural/educational background of prospective immigrants. If the British government had taken the opportunity presented by a reasonably healthy economy in 1997 and granted full British passports to all 3.5 million Hong Kong Chinese we would be in an infinitely more healthy position now. To take in millions of uneducated immigrants with third world backgrounds brings third world problems, unless the influx is gradual. Eastern Europeans may be able to drive buses or provide cheap agricultural workers, but the profits made by some doing this disappear considering the larger picture of unemployed Britons, who won't do such jobs because the social security system allows them not to.

There is also an attendant myth you are probably not considering, namely that a population needs to constantly rise to keep the economy going. This is only true due to high levels of national debt, which are serviced by an influx of people to be given credit to keep the system afloat. It matters not a jot whether the jobs are sustainable, just so long as the short term costs of government are paid.

Overhaul education to make vocational training again more common than sociology degrees, make welfare benefits contingent on doing some productive work and only allow immigration at a rate which does not result in non-assimilating ghettos developing. It's common sense, the majority of British people see it so, and it is not racist to put it bluntly either.

Nice to hear some sense on immigration, Steely Dan. It's not immigration which has messed things up; it's getting the wrong immigrants.

I lived in Hong Kong for 25 years. I even went out on the streets to demonstrate for the right of British-born Hong Kong citizens to be allowed their birthright; many of them were born British, with full rights of residence, and this right was progressively taken away from them. I had a personal interest in this, as my Hong Kong Chinese partner was one of them.

We knew at the time that nowhere near the full 3.5 million would want to migrate to Britain. The ones with good jobs and plenty of money would probably not have gone (I had an email from one the other day; he's still in Hong Kong, even though he was given one of the 50,000 passports grudgingly conceded by Thatcher). The uneducated working classes wouldn't have gone, either. The ones who would have gone would have been exactly the ones we wanted, the upwardly-mobile, entrepreneurial middle classes, who would have made their own places in British society, as they have done in, for example, Canada.

\

Have a read of this excellent article on the issue of immigration. Your point on immigration being the number one issue in the UK is wrong by just over 5 years, see Fig 3 in the article. Tragically immigration is more of an issue in the UK than many other countries, but the bottom line is that an anti immigration policy is the last thing any rational country would desire and pandering to populist/ covert racist political groupings or media outlets is to the long term detriment of the country. Sure no situation is devoid of downside for some people in some locations but the overall impact and role of migration is hugely positive, a point that can probably resonate with most of the inveterate migrants that populate this Forum.

http://migrationobse...d-level-concern

You cling to two Lib-left canards, one being that immigration is nearly always positive, the other being those opposed to current immigration policy are either racists, bigots or xenophobes.

Much depends on the cultural/educational background of prospective immigrants. If the British government had taken the opportunity presented by a reasonably healthy economy in 1997 and granted full British passports to all 3.5 million Hong Kong Chinese we would be in an infinitely more healthy position now. To take in millions of uneducated immigrants with third world backgrounds brings third world problems, unless the influx is gradual. Eastern Europeans may be able to drive buses or provide cheap agricultural workers, but the profits made by some doing this disappear considering the larger picture of unemployed Britons, who won't do such jobs because the social security system allows them not to.

There is also an attendant myth you are probably not considering, namely that a population needs to constantly rise to keep the economy going. This is only true due to high levels of national debt, which are serviced by an influx of people to be given credit to keep the system afloat. It matters not a jot whether the jobs are sustainable, just so long as the short term costs of government are paid.

Overhaul education to make vocational training again more common than sociology degrees, make welfare benefits contingent on doing some productive work and only allow immigration at a rate which does not result in non-assimilating ghettos developing. It's common sense, the majority of British people see it so, and it is not racist to put it bluntly either.

Nice to hear some sense on immigration, Steely Dan. It's not immigration which has messed things up; it's getting the wrong immigrants.

I lived in Hong Kong for 25 years. I even went out on the streets to demonstrate for the right of British-born Hong Kong citizens to be allowed their birthright; many of them were born British, with full rights of residence, and this right was progressively taken away from them. I had a personal interest in this, as my Hong Kong Chinese partner was one of them.

We knew at the time that nowhere near the full 3.5 million would want to migrate to Britain. The ones with good jobs and plenty of money would probably not have gone (I had an email from one the other day; he's still in Hong Kong, even though he was given one of the 50,000 passports grudgingly conceded by Thatcher). The uneducated working classes wouldn't have gone, either. The ones who would have gone would have been exactly the ones we wanted, the upwardly-mobile, entrepreneurial middle classes, who would have made their own places in British society, as they have done in, for example, Canada.

Instead we have to make do with the uneducated working class who worked 12 hour days at my local foundry so their kids could go to university and become doctors, accountants and lawyers.

No objection to those, Endure. Thy're upwardly-mobile all right, even if it's in terms of generations rather than within one generation. And they WORK.... like the Chinese.

The problem is that whenever 'immigrants' appear in newspapers they're always the 1% who are rogues. My job takes me round all the corner shops and sub post offices where the other 99% get up at 5am to deliver the Daily Mail to those who whine about immigrants. A few months ago I went to a post office to fix some kit. The woman behind the counter apologised that hubby wasn't there to meet me because he'd gone to drop the kids off after school at a private maths lesson. She offered me a cuppa while I was waiting. On the other side of the counter was a teenager with 2 snotty brats hanging off her waiting for her benefits. I'll leave you to guess the ethnic origins of both parties.

The problem is that whenever 'immigrants' appear in newspapers they're always the 1% who are rogues. My job takes me round all the corner shops and sub post offices where the other 99% get up at 5am to deliver the Daily Mail to those who whine about immigrants. A few months ago I went to a post office to fix some kit. The woman behind the counter apologised that hubby wasn't there to meet me because he'd gone to drop the kids off after school at a private maths lesson. She offered me a cuppa while I was waiting. On the other side of the counter was a teenager with 2 snotty brats hanging off her waiting for her benefits. I'll leave you to guess the ethnic origins of both parties.

I haven't lived in England for yonks, and I won't quarrel with your percentages! Of course it's always the objectionable ones who are noticed, and who make it difficult for the rest. But it's also true, in a perverse sort of way, that the hard work of the majority is making it possible for younger Britons to develop a non-working culture, ably supported by an over-generous government. Do we really want immigrants, from wherever they come, for that?

Barrister Blair new how to spend credit and jump the ship before it appeared to be sinking.

Education! Education! Education!

I'm sure many in the U.K would love to educate him a fitting place for his gong.