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Why Did The Pope Really Quit?

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"according to him and his supporters"

= bullshit! joining the HJ was compulsory. period!

In the seventies I was working with a large German company in Saudi Arabia.

One of the German engineers was telling his life story and at the start of WWII he was in the HJ. He was very patriotic and wanted to join up and do his bit for Germany. Went to volunteer for the army, was told he'd be SS.

'No. I want the Army.'

'No. SS.'

'No. Army.'

He wound up in the SS,

On the same project my immediate boss was a German recruited in South Africa. He had lived most of his life since 1945 in SW Africa, but when SWAPO were put in power he moved to SA. He was recruited on the understanding that he would not have to pass through Europe on his way to Saudi. But I never asked him about his WWII career.He was a good friend, but died shortly after the project finished.

Germany before WWII must have been a terrible place for the sane majority.

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What are you on about? The majority of Germans were massively fond of Hitler. He flattered them to hell. He called them the master race. Only a small minority of Germans were demonized.

What are you on about? The majority of Germans were massively fond of Hitler. He flattered them to hell. He called them the master race. Only a small minority of Germans were demonized.

I understand what HB is getting at. Yes, most, but not all, Germans supported Hitler. That doesn't mean they supported everything he did; in fact, most Germans didn't even know about the concentration camps until quite late on.

Young Germans had no choice; they had to join the armed forces, Hitlerjugend and then whatever they were allocated to. Ratzinger was one of them. If he had been told to murder Jews, he could have refused.... and would have been shot, or worse. Presumably he was not allocated to anything repulsive.

Anyway, why are you all rehashing the events of nearly 70 years ago? Haven't we got enough problems in the world without that? Jingthing, I seem to remember a post of yours a page or two back which indicated that Benedict/Ratzinger now belonged to the past, and we should look to the future. I agree with you (for the third time this afternoon, which must be a record).

That's totally false. Most Germans DID know about the concentration camps. Do you think they thought the people being shipped out on transports were ever coming home? Give me a break. It's really nauseating to hear that some people are buying the lies many Germans told after they LOST.

Also, excuse me, how would anyone really know what the young Ratzinger would have actually done if he was ordered to murder Jews? I don't believe anyone can know. Even the old Ratzinger.

That's totally false. Most Germans DID know about the concentration camps. Do you think they thought the people being shipped out on transports were ever coming home? Give me a break. It's really nauseating to hear that some people are buying the lies many Germans told after they LOST.

Also, excuse me, how would anyone really know what the young Ratzinger would have actually done if he was ordered to murder Jews? I don't believe anyone can know. Even the old Ratzinger.

Maybe.

And maybe you missed the word 'presumably'. As you say, and as I indicated, nobody can know.

That's totally false. Most Germans DID know about the concentration camps. Do you think they thought the people being shipped out on transports were ever coming home? Give me a break. It's really nauseating to hear that some people are buying the lies many Germans told after they LOST.

Also, excuse me, how would anyone really know what the young Ratzinger would have actually done if he was ordered to murder Jews? I don't believe anyone can know. Even the old Ratzinger.

I'll have to take your word for it - I wasn't there

"according to him and his supporters"

= bullshit! joining the HJ was compulsory. period!

In the seventies I was working with a large German company in Saudi Arabia.

One of the German engineers was telling his life story and at the start of WWII he was in the HJ. He was very patriotic and wanted to join up and do his bit for Germany. Went to volunteer for the army, was told he'd be SS.

'No. I want the Army.'

'No. SS.'

'No. Army.'

He wound up in the SS,

On the same project my immediate boss was a German recruited in South Africa. He had lived most of his life since 1945 in SW Africa, but when SWAPO were put in power he moved to SA. He was recruited on the understanding that he would not have to pass through Europe on his way to Saudi. But I never asked him about his WWII career.He was a good friend, but died shortly after the project finished.

Germany before WWII must have been a terrible place for the sane majority.

Some posters here are Germans of coniderable age...

I didn't think he was applying for another job. I thought he was quitting for personal reasons.

If I'm wrong there, then I wish him every success in whatever career he chooses to follow.

SC

EDIT: Perhaps, with their vast breadth of experience from all walks of life and all corners of the globe, the TV membership could offer him some constructive career guidance; it must be a challenge for a chap who has worked most of his life in one company.

I think his experience in the Hitler Youth, and the moral compass instilled in him at the highest levels of the Vatican would make him ideally suited to a successful career in the Royal Thai Police

I think well never know the truth because whatever happens in the Vatican, stays in the Vatican.

That's totally false. Most Germans DID know about the concentration camps. Do you think they thought the people being shipped out on transports were ever coming home? Give me a break. It's really nauseating to hear that some people are buying the lies many Germans told after they LOST.

Also, excuse me, how would anyone really know what the young Ratzinger would have actually done if he was ordered to murder Jews? I don't believe anyone can know. Even the old Ratzinger.

Maybe.

And maybe you missed the word 'presumably'. As you say, and as I indicated, nobody can know.

Again ... the Germans knew.

"Germans knew of Holocaust horror about death camps

Details of deaths of Jews and other groups in concentration camps were well publicised"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard

@JT During these strange times pink shades where provided to silence the skittish lambs.

They knew; but they did not want to know..

.....And the Mongols knew about Genghis Khan passion

“The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to
drive him before you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those
who love him shrouded in tears, and to gather into your bosom his wives
and daughters.”

Considering the sheer amount of woman this man raped, let alone his mates,

we have to assume there are traces of this vile breed from russia to egypt to china

I'm sure we can dig up more atrocities through history from africa, america, etc if we google

Some posters here are Germans of coniderable age...

having experienced pre WWII? are you joking? coffee1.gif

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@JT During these strange times pink shades where provided to silence the skittish lambs.

They knew; but they did not want to know..

it's always amazingly interesting learning from foreigners what exactly the Germans knew 70+ years ago whistling.gif

I've seen the German propaganda from back then. The films showing Jews as rats that need to be poisoned. What is the mystery here?

I've seen the German propaganda from back then. The films showing Jews as rats that need to be poisoned. What is the mystery here?

The mystery is why you're getting so uptight about this, JT.

Does everybody believe propaganda films?

This thread is about the Pope who has now resigned, and is now past history. Yes, he will have to account for anything evil he did during WWII, but not to us!

What we should be thinking about (and you've said this yourself on this thread) is the future.

Playing the nazi card is the oldest cheap trick on internet when arguments run out, pathetic.

Next time i'll hear the "wasnt it for XYZ y'all be speaking german" argument.

Yes, he will have to account for anything evil he did during WWII, but not to us!

Account to whom?

What about the thousands of children who have naver found justice of any kind because of his actions while he was Pope and long before it? Can they move forward?

http://youtu.be/Jj8q6lntNjw?t=5m16s

I've seen the German propaganda from back then. The films showing Jews as rats that need to be poisoned. What is the mystery here?

The mystery is why you're getting so uptight about this, JT.

Does everybody believe propaganda films?

This thread is about the Pope who has now resigned, and is now past history. Yes, he will have to account for anything evil he did during WWII, but not to us!

What we should be thinking about (and you've said this yourself on this thread) is the future.

I find it weird that people don't see the obvious, that the Nazi regime was mass murdering Jews and not shy about it to their own people. It also DOCUMENTED that they knew (see link above). You just twisted my last post also as well. The films communicated the murderous nature of the regime towards Jews. It's not relevant to that point whether every German believed the propaganda or not. The question we were talking about was did the German people know that Jews were being subject to genocide. Of course they knew! This isn't something that happened thousands of years ago. Yes it is important this still relatively RECENT history is told ACCURATELY. Another point, I am not saying the majority of German people knew about the details of gas chambers, I am asserting the majority of German people knew that the Jews were sent away to be killed in some way.

You find it a mystery that some people are annoyed when Catholics try to push false information about the holocaust? Are you serious? Do you know the role of Catholic church during the holocaust?

Did I find it distasteful that you guys appointed a Pope who was a Nazi? Yes. Even though as a youth, it was the wrong message. Was that really necessary given the disgusting record of the Catholic church during the holocaust? Not to mention the Pope's faux pas trying to elevate a rabid anti-semite.

Playing the nazi card is the oldest cheap trick on internet when arguments run out, pathetic.

Next time i'll hear the "wasnt it for XYZ y'all be speaking german" argument.

You're right when the topic has nothing to do with Nazis or antisemitism.

In this case, your critique doesn't fly because the Pope in question is linked to the Nazis. Also as the head of the office same as the Inquisition, he is historically linked the Inquisition which mass murdered, mass deported, and mass force converted so many Jews in history. A Pope like that should have never forced a mass which called for the conversion of Jews.

When the Pope read the report....did he exclaim '<deleted>' ??

what report? huh.png

A report was given to the Pope on 17 December which was prompted by the Vatileaks scandal ( it was the butler wot did it ). The report outlined serious infighting within the Vatican and suggested blackmail was taking place due to a cabal of priests indulging in gay sex in a local sauna, among other places.

It was difficult reading for the Pope and he reckons he doesn't have the physical and mental strength to

cleanse his house.

The Catholic church could facing spiralling compensation costs after an attempt to avoid liability for abuses committed by priests and nuns was dismissed by the UK supreme court.

[..]

Lawyers for the diocese have conceded they cannot take the case to the European court of human rights in Strasbourg and consequently the court of appeal's ruling becomes definitive.

[..]

Commenting on the decision, Keith Porteous Wood, of the National Secular Society, said: "It is hard to exaggerate the importance of this case : it will almost certainly become an international precedent, opening the door to financial liability against the church for tens of thousands of victims of abuse, worldwide.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/28/catholic-church-abuse-claims-compensation

When the Pope read the report....did he exclaim '<deleted>' ??

what report? huh.png

A report was given to the Pope on 17 December which was prompted by the Vatileaks scandal ( it was the butler wot did it ). The report outlined serious infighting within the Vatican and suggested blackmail was taking place due to a cabal of priests indulging in gay sex in a local sauna, among other places.

It was difficult reading for the Pope and he reckons he doesn't have the physical and mental strength to

cleanse his house.

Good job, getting us back on topic.

Did I find it distasteful that you guys appointed a Pope who was a Nazi?

I-Birder,

i have to agree with JT that you acted distasteful. who took care of your dogs when you where sitting in the conclave voting for a Nazi? confess to your crime! perhaps JT will reduce the number of Hail Marys you have to pray kneeling on glowing embers.

Did I find it distasteful that you guys appointed a Pope who was a Nazi?

I-Birder,

i have to agree with JT that you acted distasteful. who took care of your dogs when you where sitting in the conclave voting for a Nazi? confess to your crime! perhaps JT will reduce the number of Hail Marys you have to pray kneeling on glowing embers.

Wouldn't they allow me to take my dogs to the conclave? I abase myself, naam.

Yes, Jingthing, if the discussion was about Pius the whatever-it-was during the war, I would keep very quiet. But in this case, I think you (and the media) are bending over backwards to implicate Benedict XVI in Nazi crimes when, if there was any real evidence, it would have made headlines, not what he was accused of, but what he had actually done. I don't think he was a great pope; in fact, I thought it was a mistake to make him pope out of simple loyalty to John Paul II.... but now let him retire into oblivion. I think he was right to retire, whether it was old age and ill health, or a simple realisation that he couldn't cope with the problems facing the Church.

Now let's get on with life.

The church has very deep pockets. I think they can manage.

Yes, the Church has deep pockets, mostly fairly empty. Its main assets are priceless art treasures which it couldn't realise for cash.

Again, you twist what I have said. I did not implicate your recently quit Pope in Nazi war crimes. Name one place where I did. I do think it was the wrong PR message to appoint an ex-Nazi as Pope whether he was an "innocent" Nazi or not, given the shameful record of the Catholic church towards Jews throughout history. You would think an ex-Nazi pope would have done more about deflecting that past. Instead he tries to elevate a virulent anti-semite and forces a mass that calls for converting Jews.

Also, IB, YOU were the one who asserted most Germans back then didn't know about the genocide of the Jews as if to suggest the overall innocence of the Germans of that era. I found that outrageous and again suggest you examine well documented history about that.

Again, you twist what I have said. I did not implicate your recently quit Pope in Nazi war crimes. Name one place where I did. I do think it was wrong to appoint an ex-Nazi as Pope whether he was an "innocent" Nazi or not.

Perhaps it wasn't high on their criteria.

I'm not sure I'd like to be discriminated against in my job based on my youthful political affiliations.

SC

Again, you twist what I have said. I did not implicate your recently quit Pope in Nazi war crimes. Name one place where I did. I do think it was wrong to appoint an ex-Nazi as Pope whether he was an "innocent" Nazi or not.

Perhaps it wasn't high on their criteria.

I'm not sure I'd like to be discriminated against in my job based on my youthful political affiliations.

SC

The Papacy is a highly symbolic office. Again, it wasn't a nice message.

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Again, you twist what I have said. I did not implicate your recently quit Pope in Nazi war crimes. Name one place where I did. I do think it was wrong to appoint an ex-Nazi as Pope whether he was an "innocent" Nazi or not.

Perhaps it wasn't high on their criteria.

I'm not sure I'd like to be discriminated against in my job based on my youthful political affiliations.

SC

The Papacy is a highly symbolic office. Again, it wasn't a nice message.
Sometimes it's not about you.

Maybe you are reading a message where none was written.

SC

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