In A Relationship: Are Lies Acceptable?

[Yo Sup]

Every response here is why I will never again have a LTR with a Thai woman, as in my experience they cannot tell the truth, even if they want to.

We read lots here about culture. In LOS I have had folk tell bear faced lies and I laugh. Guess what, they understand why I laugh.

Yes, we read lots about there "culture", as if they were actually cultured people. Personally, I don't give one fat <deleted> about their culture. If you lie to me, your gone. I always tell them, any omission of truth, or lack of full disclosure, and you've got a pink slip.

I make them pay half of everything too! I suggest the rest of you men take the same position. With a 5 to 1 ratio between men and women, make them step up....

[TommoPhysicist]

I have never cheated, so you are wrong if you say all cheat. If you are trying to say that most western men here cheat, I would say you have a flair for the obvious.

I never said that all cheat, I said that all the men I have met in Thailand do.

Neither am I "trying" to say that most Western men in Thailand cheat, I am saying so. Obvious it may be but it is these same men who complain about Thai women lying and how it is embedded in their culture (unless I am supposed to believe that thaivisa members are in no way representative of expats in Thailand as a whole), which was my original point. A pity it needs so much explanation for some to understand.

Weeeeeeeeeeell, l live in LOS and have never ever thought about fooling around. My ex UK wife of 25 years, l never fooled around, seems she did, BUT, perhaps l am a fool, don't know, BUT, in myself l am happy.

Me too!

[norrona]

I have never cheated, so you are wrong if you say all cheat. If you are trying to say that most western men here cheat, I would say you have a flair for the obvious.

I never said that all cheat, I said that all the men I have met in Thailand do.

Neither am I "trying" to say that most Western men in Thailand cheat, I am saying so. Obvious it may be but it is these same men who complain about Thai women lying and how it is embedded in their culture (unless I am supposed to believe that thaivisa members are in no way representative of expats in Thailand as a whole), which was my original point. A pity it needs so much explanation for some to understand.

Weeeeeeeeeeell, l live in LOS and have never ever thought about fooling around. My ex UK wife of 25 years, l never fooled around, seems she did, BUT, perhaps l am a fool, don't know, BUT, in myself l am happy.

Me too!

you two fellas really need counselling to get rid of them white witches and their evil ways they have ingrained into your minds

[weegee]

I have never cheated, so you are wrong if you say all cheat. If you are trying to say that most western men here cheat, I would say you have a flair for the obvious.

I never said that all cheat, I said that all the men I have met in Thailand do.

Neither am I "trying" to say that most Western men in Thailand cheat, I am saying so. Obvious it may be but it is these same men who complain about Thai women lying and how it is embedded in their culture (unless I am supposed to believe that thaivisa members are in no way representative of expats in Thailand as a whole), which was my original point. A pity it needs so much explanation for some to understand.

Weeeeeeeeeeell, l live in LOS and have never ever thought about fooling around. My ex UK wife of 25 years, l never fooled around, seems she did, BUT, perhaps l am a fool, don't know, BUT, in myself l am happy.

Me too!

Me three

[Loptr]

Where do YOU draw the line? I have left the 'scene' and went on a trip to search for normal and respectable people in Thailand. Didn't take me long to find them.

There is a big difference between a mere white lie and a secret that can destroy a relation.

I just love rationalizations. So where do you draw the line? Is it when you find out that her brother is not really her brother, or when you find out that the money she asked for yesterday did not get used for it's intended purpose? Sorry, if someone is going to lie about small things do you really think they would have any compunction in lying about big things too? If so, I wish you luck.

Learn the language and get involved .

Where do I draw the line? My line is drawn where I will distance myself from anyone who I know has willfully told me a lie.

I don't remember ever mentioning the "scene" in my posts. My opinions span the breadth of Thai society, not just the more salacious locales.

Which is why I made this post.

Every response here is why I will never again have a LTR with a Thai woman, as in my experience they cannot tell the truth, even if they want to. /endquote

You have set a fine example of 2 dimensional thinking.

Here we go. Just because I refuse to be taken advantage of, I all of a sudden have a 2 dimensional mind. Me tinks you should wake up and smell the coffee as I just read a thread on TV where the Thai wife of a UK fellow just ups and sells their home and disappears. The couple had been married for 35 years. Remember that when you get raked over the coals. You ever think that there is a reason I take the stance I have? No, obviously not as you still have on the rose colored glasses. Come talk to me in a few years.

[Loptr]

In Thai culture and politics, 'white lies' are ok.

But a lie is never OK, is it.

typical Judeo-Christian thinking. We're not in traditional Jedeo-Christian territory.

<deleted>? What does honesty have to do with religion? That argument wouldn't float a turd in a punch bowl.

[transam]

In Thai culture and politics, 'white lies' are ok.

But a lie is never OK, is it.

typical Judeo-Christian thinking. We're not in traditional Jedeo-Christian territory.

Think you have f___ed up, I am not religious in any way. .

[FDog]

Come on Transam, we all know you are married to your car and only having an affair with your wife.

[transam]

Come on Transam, we all know you are married to your car and only having an affair with your wife.

True, sort of, had to sell the love of my life (my car) and now just hmmmmmmmmmmmm, don't know what l am doing now. Sh_t, looks like l have a problem.

[StreetCowboy]

In Thai culture and politics, 'white lies' are ok.

But a lie is never OK, is it.

typical Judeo-Christian thinking. We're not in traditional Jedeo-Christian territory.

<deleted>? What does honesty have to do with religion? That argument wouldn't float a turd in a punch bowl.

I'm glad I don't go to the same parties as you

[transam]

In Thai culture and politics, 'white lies' are ok.

But a lie is never OK, is it.

typical Judeo-Christian thinking. We're not in traditional Jedeo-Christian territory.

<deleted>? What does honesty have to do with religion? That argument wouldn't float a turd in a punch bowl.

But turds always float, well mine do.

[canuckamuck]

TMI

[Geekfreaklover]

Two Thais can have a serious one on one business meeting. They are both looking into each other's eyes and smiling. They are both lying to each other throughout the meeting. Each knows that the other is lying. They admire each other's lying skills. It is really quite impressive to watch this dynamic in action. Like politicians Thai buisness people, the good ones that is, distance themselves from truth.

Those that lie convingingly are often admired in Thai society. Almost as if it is a form of intelligence.

Has my significant other lied to me? Yes. Nothing serious and as a response I've lied right back to her to let her know that I knew that she was lying.

When in Rome...

Do as the Romans do.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Geekfreaklover

[rene123]

Geekfreaklover, on 04 Mar 2013 - 05:47, said:

Two Thais can have a serious one on one business meeting. They are both looking into each other's eyes and smiling. They are both lying to each other throughout the meeting. Each knows that the other is lying. They admire each other's lying skills. It is really quite impressive to watch this dynamic in action. Like politicians Thai buisness people, the good ones that is, distance themselves from truth.

Those that lie convingingly are often admired in Thai society. Almost as if it is a form of intelligence.

Has my significant other lied to me? Yes. Nothing serious and as a response I've lied right back to her to let her know that I knew that she was lying.

When in Rome...

Do as the Romans do.

Interesting concept. I tend to believe your thesis. I know East Indian businessmen lie as a form of general business practise. It's a form of one-upmanship. I don't lie because my memory is not good enough. One lie has to be backed up by 10 more lies. However, I ofen don't tell the WHOLE story and leave it up to others to fill in the blanks. If someone asked what time did you get home last night I will reply "Late" and leave it at that. If a policeman askes me how fast I was going I'll say I don't know... even though I might have a pretty good idea I was over the speed limit.

But, I'll never tell a blatant lie to try and fool someone into believing something that isn't true. If a friend asks me my advice on a dress I don't like I'll reply..."I prefer you in something blue, or like that nice outfit you wore at the party we went to" That way she gets a complement and not a negative reply.

Bragging tends to wear thin after a while... even if the stories are true. It's easy enough to ge the other person talking about themselves and turn the subject away from yourself. That way you don't HAVE to lie.

[maxme]

I take it as most Thais don't have the strength to discuss the matter in details so they leave some things out. To them it´s not a lie, but a matter of perspective whereas to us, it´s a matter of telling the whole truth.

[Dancealot]

Geekfreaklover, on 04 Mar 2013 - 05:47, said:

Two Thais can have a serious one on one business meeting. They are both looking into each other's eyes and smiling. They are both lying to each other throughout the meeting. Each knows that the other is lying. They admire each other's lying skills. It is really quite impressive to watch this dynamic in action. Like politicians Thai buisness people, the good ones that is, distance themselves from truth.

Those that lie convingingly are often admired in Thai society. Almost as if it is a form of intelligence.

Has my significant other lied to me? Yes. Nothing serious and as a response I've lied right back to her to let her know that I knew that she was lying.

When in Rome...

Do as the Romans do.

Interesting concept. I tend to believe your thesis. I know East Indian businessmen lie as a form of general business practise. It's a form of one-upmanship. I don't lie because my memory is not good enough. One lie has to be backed up by 10 more lies. However, I ofen don't tell the WHOLE story and leave it up to others to fill in the blanks. If someone asked what time did you get home last night I will reply "Late" and leave it at that. If a policeman askes me how fast I was going I'll say I don't know... even though I might have a pretty good idea I was over the speed limit.

But, I'll never tell a blatant lie to try and fool someone into believing something that isn't true. If a friend asks me my advice on a dress I don't like I'll reply..."I prefer you in something blue, or like that nice outfit you wore at the party we went to" That way she gets a complement and not a negative reply.

Bragging tends to wear thin after a while... even if the stories are true. It's easy enough to ge the other person talking about themselves and turn the subject away from yourself. That way you don't HAVE to lie.

I dont know. I think you are swaying the subject here

I think i can see very swiftly when someone is talking to me bearing a hidden agenda.

IMO this can go 2 ways:

1 This agenda is egocentric and meant to scam you.

2 This agenda is meant to help you, but not all the details are revealed because the other party expects you to understand and trust you.

Thanks

Edited March 4, 2013 by Dancealot

[bangkokburning]

The only lie my now wife has told me is that we agreed that we would buy new Google phones in USA. While I was away camping she bought a Nex4 from Jaymart knowing I would go ballistic. She lied by omission.in conversation trying to soften me up.for when I returned and saw she spent 15k on a bloody phone.

She is as lovely and honest as the day I met her more than three years ago.

Our lives are simple, there is no drama or other people - no need to.lie.

Our email and fb accts are left open out of both trust and laziness.

Edited March 5, 2013 by bangkokburning

[rene123]

I don't lie. I just don't tell all the truth all the time.

[jocko]

I don't lie. I just don't tell all the truth all the time.

Or

All the lies you tell are not true

[TommoPhysicist]

The only lie my now wife has told me is that we agreed that we would buy new Google phones in USA. While I was away camping she bought a Nex4 from Jaymart knowing I would go ballistic. She lied by omission.in conversation trying to soften me up.for when I returned and saw she spent 15k on a bloody phone.

She is as lovely and honest as the day I met her more than three years ago.

Our lives are simple, there is no drama or other people - no need to.lie.

Our email and fb accts are left open out of both trust and laziness.

So either,

1) she spent 15k of her own money on a phone and you are a control freak

or

2) she stole 15k of your money and ..............

I would be interested to know which answer is more correct?

[rene123]

TommoPhysicist, on 04 Mar 2013 - 18:49, said:

bangkokburning, on 04 Mar 2013 - 16:37, said:

The only lie my now wife has told me is that we agreed that we would buy new Google phones in USA. While I was away camping she bought a Nex4 from Jaymart knowing I would go ballistic. She lied by omission.in conversation trying to soften me up.for when I returned and saw she spent 15k on a bloody phone.

She is as lovely and honest as the day I met her more than three years ago.

Our lives are simple, there is no drama or other people - no need to.lie.

Our email and fb accts are left open out of both trust and laziness.

So either,

1) she spent 15k of her own money on a phone and you are a control freak

or

2) she stole 15k of your money and ..............

I would be interested to know which answer is more correct?

Some couples who trust each other actually have joint accounts, Tommo. Not every couple is insular from their partners and have separate accounts. And, what one person might find a necessity their partner might find frivolous.

[TommoPhysicist]

Some couples who trust each other actually have joint accounts, Tommo. Not every couple is insular from their partners and have separate accounts. And, what one person might find a necessity their partner might find frivolous.

I once tried joint accounts, didn't work, she had no idea of financial management, she just spent the money until none left.

We both earned equal amounts ...... I just got fed up with someone else spending it all.

As we both found out Rene, trust is for suckers.

Unless you had a long term relationship where trust worked for you, and you haven't posted about it?

Edited March 5, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[rene123]

I don't disagree with you, Tommo, but I was just commenting on how it works for different people. There is no one perfect system to suit everyone. Each couple has to work out the best program for themselves. In some cases it is the man who manages the money and in some cases it is the woman. Ideally, it should be the one who is the best money manager, but that is not always the case. That is why people should live with their future partner for a while before marriage. Not every couple in love will make a good, long term partnership. It takes a while to adjust to all the changes from being single. Lust, love and infatuation are all things that cloud the brain when it comes to designing a system that works for a couple considering a long term relationship.

[LburtonL]

I take it as most Thais don't have the strength to discuss the matter in details so they leave some things out. To them it´s not a lie, but a matter of perspective whereas to us, it´s a matter of telling the whole truth.

thumb's up

[TommoPhysicist]

@rene

I lived with my partner for 25 years before she took me. So how long do you think should be enough for trust to develop ...... im setting my timer to 30 years now.

As far as i can see, joint accounts are only for suckers, its just a matter of time before betrayal occures.

[transam]

@rene

I lived with my partner for 25 years before she took me. So how long do you think should be enough for trust to develop ...... im setting my timer to 30 years now.

As far as i can see, joint accounts are only for suckers, its just a matter of time before betrayal occures.

Sad to say that after my life's experiences, now mum and dad are gone, there isn't a single person l trust. Including family.

[rene123]

That is why everyone should have something put away for the "rainy day". People change and grow apart. Then when some spouse decides it's time to split they rationalize their actions and take everything they can despite what might be fair or not.

One thing I've been taught by an elderly mentor is you can be happy with much less than you think you need.

[mickjn]

Being looked straight in the eye and lied to makes me crazy, because she thinks I am that damned stupid.

I know the feeling brother

[mickjn]

@rene

I lived with my partner for 25 years before she took me. So how long do you think should be enough for trust to develop ...... im setting my timer to 30 years now.

As far as i can see, joint accounts are only for suckers, its just a matter of time before betrayal occures.

Sad to say that after my life's experiences, now mum and dad are gone, there isn't a single person l trust. Including family.

And the ones that are worse IMO are farangs that live in LOS you have known for 30 years then they shit on you.Sorry gone off original subject

[transam]

@rene

I lived with my partner for 25 years before she took me. So how long do you think should be enough for trust to develop ...... im setting my timer to 30 years now.

As far as i can see, joint accounts are only for suckers, its just a matter of time before betrayal occures.

Sad to say that after my life's experiences, now mum and dad are gone, there isn't a single person l trust. Including family.

And the ones that are worse IMO are farangs that live in LOS you have known for 30 years then they shit on you.Sorry gone off original subject

I believe you. No problem with me and your post.