In danger of being a nation run by thieves: Thai editorial

[britinthai]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

For Thailand to be more corrupt than other nations, would mean that the human's here are less likely to be opportunists. It is simply not the case and I agree with Ianatlarge.

Corruption in Australia is better hidden. For lower end officials, it has become more difficult, but at the top end it is business as usual for a country run by lawyers. Lets not define lawyers further.

Every now and then a tip of the iceberg gets exposed. There is a satisfactory hue and cry in the media and the iceberg floats on quietly. More quietly than before. People learn from example, how to communicate secretly more effectively. How "not" to reveal intentions in emails and sms and on pillow talk.

These anti corruption commissioners, should each be equipped with at least two forensic accountants that can trace the money trails effectively and they should then be bound by some sort of results clause, evaluated yearly.

Having worked in a lot of different countries, I can say Thailand is no different than most. Let's look at the UK where most of the MPs were scamming expenses. The Thai government does take care of their people all be it not like other western countries where they seem to take care of others before their own - Thai people has always had to take care of themselves and will always consider if I can take it and get away with it then I will.

[stickylies]

Can someone explain me how different it was in the West, let's say in the '80s and early '90. Where I come from there were massive corruption scandals, every single week; and NO I'm not from Italy or Greece. None of these people were put in jail. They were untouchable because they were politicans or very rich entrepreneurs (or both). I will keep repeating that Thailand is not that much different, just a few decades behind.

[slipperylobster]

Please...no more corruption headlines. Just wait until the Headlines can read..."Thailand Free From Corruption". Disregard all other news. on this.

[PhilipCook]

Watching what happens in Egypt lately suggest that this isn't limited to Thailand, isn't limited to Asia, isn't a unique situation for developing countries. It's certainly not something that us non-Thais have any way of changing, griping about it solves zippo.

[britinthai]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

For Thailand to be more corrupt than other nations, would mean that the human's here are less likely to be opportunists. It is simply not the case and I agree with Ianatlarge.

Corruption in Australia is better hidden. For lower end officials, it has become more difficult, but at the top end it is business as usual for a country run by lawyers. Lets not define lawyers further.

Every now and then a tip of the iceberg gets exposed. There is a satisfactory hue and cry in the media and the iceberg floats on quietly. More quietly than before. People learn from example, how to communicate secretly more effectively. How "not" to reveal intentions in emails and sms and on pillow talk.

These anti corruption commissioners, should each be equipped with at least two forensic accountants that can trace the money trails effectively and they should then be bound by some sort of results clause, evaluated yearly.

Having worked in a lot of different countries, I can say Thailand is no different than most. Let's look at the UK where most of the MPs were scamming expenses. The Thai government does take care of their people all be it not like other western countries where they seem to take care of others before their own - Thai people has always had to take care of themselves and will always consider if I can take it and get away with it then I will.

[Thaddeus]

Having worked in a lot of different countries, I can say Thailand is no different than most. Let's look at the UK where most of the MPs were scamming expenses.

There is the small issue of scale, duck pond - pink Bentley.

[hellodolly]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

Well said in the list of corrupt countries Thailand is in the middle.

Like you said they will have a few minor officials put on trial with a lot being written about it.

It will be like their war on drugs a lot of drugs a few minor players no major players but the news put out about it almost makes you want to think they are doing some thing about it. Truth is the problem is getting bigger.

And so it will be with corruption.

[NoshowJones]

In danger of being run by thieves....!!! It already is by a people's court convicted criminal out of Dubai. The joke is that even the writer of this thinks it is only someone who they can label as just a thief. Does it not even register that when a criminal convicted by the countries own courts is running the country de facto from abroad then the problem is more than thievery.

America, one of the biggest countries in the world is run by thieves, I know from personal experience. To cut a long story short, while I was still in the UK. I paid the American Government money for a service, when I said I did not wish to take the service after sending them a cheque, I asked for my money back and they just kept it. Maybe someone will have different experiences, but I have never paid any money to any part of the Thai government, not had the service and them still keeping my money.

[newermonkey]

Run by thieves for thieves.

Already a reality,

[gosompoi]

In Sisaket where I live corruption is the #1 business! Schools, Police, Dept of Motor automobiles, and now monks too! We had the school exam cheaters, police exam cheaters headquartes, luxury automobile scam and now monk on the run all in Sisaket!

[Suffinator]

It's too late...

Thai Officials Scared of Arresting Powerful Figures Involved in Land Corruption on Phuket Will the Thai Economy Collapse Under the Strain of Greed and Corruption?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You'll note...the article said many have been convicted and sentenced for corruption.

Glaringly, it does NOT add that many have been actually been JAILED for that corruption... Perhaps that's because, generally, they aren't.

Get bail, hop a plane and go abroad or better yet, come back home and live for years with no one the wiser.

The system isn't serious about stopping corruption or punishing those who engage in it. That's why it will continue and proliferate.

[blundaman]

allo allo ...seems we now have our very own whistleblower

heh

eh

heheh

Edited July 4, 2013 by blundaman

[NoshowJones]

Corruption and graft is a huge problem and in Thailand Thais are witness to it from the day they enter their first school. Thai children school grades are not according to their abilities as no Thai child fails but his or her grades are influenced by the amount the parents paid extra to the school for higher marks.

Most foreigner teachers work without work permits but the schools and their agents still receive their near 60,000 baht for the foreigner teacher of which the foreigner teacher generally receives less than 30,000 with the balance going to the agents 20,000 and the school 10,000 or the school retains 100% of the amount not paid to the foreigner English teachers. We know this can only exist by paying graft to the school investigators.

Graft and corruption exists in most every government. U.S.A. president after president has proven how they fix elections, lie to their citizens and how they take care of their big business buddies and their war machine.

Thailand's graft and corruption is rampant, extremely visible and out of control at the schools, the post office, immigration and all levels of gov't!

Good post, but I do not believe that most of the foreign teachers work without work pemits, in the past, yes, but not today. The risk is too great for both the schools and the teachers.

[gosompoi]

It's too late...

Thai Officials Scared of Arresting Powerful Figures Involved in Land Corruption on Phuket Will the Thai Economy Collapse Under the Strain of Greed and Corruption?

I hear this all the time, living in an area of high corruption like Sisaket, the Thai say no one can stop it because all the of the people in power are too powerful stop or simply it is only way to get anything done. Do not pay do not get.

[Payboy]

The applicants are required to be "evidently honest" and show their credentials in supporting the fight against corruption. They must be between 45 and 70. Successful applicants will be stationed at the NACC office in the province where they applied and will serve as provincial members for four years.

Wonder what's the going rate for being appointed on the NACC.

[simple1]

Anyone remember a previous topic on TV covering corruption; it was based upon 'Rule of Law' http://worldjusticep...le-of-law-index report that was mentioned in the Thai media, where it was presented as if Thailand was in the middle in most categories, and on par with neighbours and countries with similar income level.

As a TV member hightlighted and I quote:

"the specific subcategory '2.4 Government officials in the legislative branch do not use public office for private gain' scored a 0.06 !! http://worldjusticep...ountry/thailand. Of all the countries looked at, only Ukraine managed to score lower than Thailand"

[NoshowJones]

For many wealthy politicians and officials now, corruption boils down to simple greed and never knowing how much is enough.

Well Thailand, there's a simple answer . . . stop voting for them.

The problem is that corruption is endemic at all levels. Free and fair elections will never happen until the scourge of vote buying stops. One wonders what the turnout at the polling booths be like if no vote buying occurs. 20% or less? Most people wouldn't be bothered because of the belief that all politicians are greedy and it really makes no difference who is in power - so take the 500 baht and vote for that party.

Take the 500 Baht then vote for a different party.

[monkeycountry]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

For Thailand to be more corrupt than other nations, would mean that the human's here are less likely to be opportunists. It is simply not the case and I agree with Ianatlarge.

Corruption in Australia is better hidden. For lower end officials, it has become more difficult, but at the top end it is business as usual for a country run by lawyers. Lets not define lawyers further.

Every now and then a tip of the iceberg gets exposed. There is a satisfactory hue and cry in the media and the iceberg floats on quietly. More quietly than before. People learn from example, how to communicate secretly more effectively. How "not" to reveal intentions in emails and sms and on pillow talk.

These anti corruption commissioners, should each be equipped with at least two forensic accountants that can trace the money trails effectively and they should then be bound by some sort of results clause, evaluated yearly.

Having worked in a lot of different countries, I can say Thailand is no different than most. Let's look at the UK where most of the MPs were scamming expenses. The Thai government does take care of their people all be it not like other western countries where they seem to take care of others before their own - Thai people has always had to take care of themselves and will always consider if I can take it and get away with it then I will.

Yes, scamming expenses and stealing a few hundred billion through large scale corruption is the same - no difference at all

[Orac]

After seeing these anti-corruption headlines for many years, I am beginning

to see the glimmer of a strategy here. For the powers that be, this strategy seems to be to steal as much money as possible, while at the same time have the media pump out these repetitive nonsensical headlines about how corruption is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Yet for some reason nothing is ever done......

My general sense is that corruption instead of being addressed, has actually increased to mind boggling levels. The rice scam, and the proposed 2 trillion baht infrastructure project with its implied 30 percent looting levels are just fresh examples of that....

Just saw this from the post above. "......51.2% said corruption by government officials was acceptable as long as it improved their living conditions." This points to a fundamental flaw in the thinking of the average Thai. Corruption harms the public, as the money that is supposed to be for the public benefit instead is siphoned off to a Swiss bank account or a house in London. What the Thai public gets seems to be an endless series of shoddy infrastructure projects. Guess the payments to the mia nois at least stay in Thailand... :-)

You have to judge this 51.2% in the context of the red shirt supporters who benefit from corruption. It is intuitive that those that benefit from corruption are not going to oppose it because they are already accessories to the crime of corruption.

Not sure why you are singling out the red shirt supporters here - the 51.2% is taken from an article published in July 2009 under the previous government. By trying to make corruption a one sided, political issue with an 'its their fault' mentality, the endemic nature of the problem spread through all segments of Thai society will not get addressed.

[mogo51]

What about the education system here where money is syphoned off by school directors that is meant for school improvements, teacher's pay, learning material. One instance relayed to me where a school was given several million baht to build a library in the down time - on return, teachers found no library, but director found a new BMW. Thailand is dragging so far behind other ASEAN countries in English language understanding, it will be a total joke.

The problem is no accountability.

[Gsxrnz]

It's all a matter of perspective, objectivity, and subjectivity.

If the western perspective of "corruption" is applied to Thailand, then objectively the country is as corrupt as a three dollar bill.

If the Thai perspective of "corruption" is applied to Thailand, then subjectively the country and its populace are merely following centuries of traditional methods of reward and remuneration that have served the country well in its development as a nation thus far.

Thailand is a young country in western democratic terms. Give it another 2 to 3 generations and it will mature into the sort of totally cocked-up societies that most western countries actually are anyway.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[skyflymedia]

Death pennelty for taking money might help !

[Chris Lawrence]

I thought the Nation was a little bit behind..........

[Netizen]

The best business in Thailand is to be a politician followed by being a policeman. When a public project is run by those that pay the "highest bid" instead of qualifications, the public gets screwed. This is evident when visiting the airport, or riding the BTS with limited cars and increasingly expensive or sidewalks that last a few months before the bricks start popping to name just a few projects. I wonder when Thais will say enough is enough.

I think the more Thais that travel outside of their country and visit other developing (or developed) modern Asian countries such as Singapore, Hong Kong, or Taiwan, they will see how corruption in their own country keeps their country from "functioning" smoothly. I was with two of my Thai buddies that traveled with me to Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Their first time to be outside of their country.They were amazed (can I say shocked) how organized, clean, and developed these countries were. They were always comparing Thailand to Laos or Cambodia. Now, they are more critical in how things are managed in Thailand.

You are talking about 2 former British colonies in Singapore and Malaysia. Neither country got there on their own.

It would be perverse to consider Malaysia as being free of corruption. What about one party state Singapore where ruling party sues and bankrupts opposition politicians because it controls the law.

Thailand is not alone in corruption which is more transparent in Thailand than other countries.

[DekDaeng]

A good approach would be to overhaul the provision of bail process within the Criminal Code. Often bail is provided and then the accused absonds overseas until the Statute of Limitations expires.

& uniform guidelines for sentencing.

Lady stole 30,000 baht from her bank, got 100 years, then reduced to 50.

Guy who started asian financial crisis (megabill embezzlement) got 10 years.

[steveyinasia]

Things can only improve when the average Thai starts to give a bugger about their country, currently there is little evidence of this.

[Roadman]

I think a prime example of how corruption can sink a nation is the Asian country of the Philippines. Back in the 60's it was making great progress in its development but the massive corruption and poverty anchored down its development and now the country is in such a sad condition that its main money maker is outsourcing its citizens to work in other countries since there are no opportunities in their own country. With Thailand, there may be hope if only the people in the rural areas could be better educated and taught to "think" instead of following. When the majority of the citizens think corruption is acceptable as long as it makes THEIR LIFE better ( -does this include the discount for first car owners?... free tablets give to students in schools?....rice scam?) then there isn't light at the end of the tunnel.

Well said and the comparison to the Philippines is valid.

Thailand has huge potential economically for even its poorest peoples standard of life to be improved greatly but look at the pigs at the trough carry on with Education Minister seats, where if you even were able to show one bit of compassion for the Isaan lower socio economic classes Pheu Thai profess to care about "in my beloved homeland ThaiKsinland" they would start here and health and related services. Four...4 education ministers in 2 years. The incompetence by itself is frightening but when mixed with the corruption, lawlessness, selfishness...you name it...this thai governance stinks of it all...Thailand is heading for some major pain while the Shinawatra mafia Amart try to take full power in Thailand. If they do exceed then take your pick of Philippines, Cambodia or any of the other non democratic states in the area. One thing they all have in common is the peasants are still the peasants with no expectations. Isaanites should continue to enjoy their ฿500 four yearly payout and their continued call ins to their absent bargirl daughters.

[vincentc]

Originating from a country in Europe where working people get taxed 60 percent of their income, I think saying Thailand is a country run being run by thieves is exaggerated.

What percentage of their income would working class Thais pay on corruption fees yearly? 5 percent at most?

[hawker9000]

Yeap. But hardly alone in the world. In the US, we even elect politicians who've done hard time! Corruption & criminality just go with political power. Usually behind the green curtain, but not always. Inescapable. The concept of limited government was supposed to avoid all that, but everybody had their own personal pet project (or desired handout) for government to take care of, and no awareness or care whatsoever for the dangers of political power, so limited government went right out the window a century or so ago. I've even heard people lambast the Constitution as being old & obsolete. LOL. Now there's some inspiring political awareness and social depth for you. Well, the genie is out of the bottle now; 'pretty hard to get him back in there. We wanted statism: 'better learn to love it 'cause big brother'll be watching...