German expat mugged by Phuket teen gang

[JO1973]

Is the seemingly disproportionate amount of violence reported against foreigners in Phuket compared to Bangkok a function of the policy of the Phuket News and the lack of interest in these mugging stories by The Nation or a real difference in violence against foreigners in Phuket vs. Bangkok? Any thoughts?

I think there's probably more violence in Bangkok but most of it goes unreported. I don't think The Nation has any interest in reporting these types of stories because it reflects badly on the country -- or perhaps they are leaned on a little more by authorities to keep a lid on it.

But there also seems to be a lack of fear among Thais regarding legal repurcussions in Phuket. I think the police there have almost zero interest in doing something about crime as they know that most foreigners will leave and they will still get paid regardless.

[NamKangMan]

That's an interesting point Jimi, but as Bangla Road is Phuket's biggest tourist attraction, the majority of tourists come into Patong to see it, and maybe party for the night. Then, later in the night, there are the usual arguments with tuk-tuk drivers, pickpocketing ladyboys, overzealous Thai security looking to beat up a foreigner, arguments over the amounts of drinks on the bill etc etc.

Then, many tourists and expats will ride home and crash, or have a problem with the teenage gangs.

In Pattaya, you don't have to go to Wlking Street for "adult entertainment" as it's all over Pattaya and just outside the majority of hotels, but on Phuket, you have to get to Patong for serious nightlife and a good vafriety of eateries. The travel is the main risk, either on your rental scooter or with a tuk-tuk driver.

It really is time you entured outside of Patong. You'll find in many places a great variety of eateries, normally much better value than the ones in Patong.

I prefer to stay inside the "Patong Safety Zone" where no bad things happen to foreigners.

Notice how a lot of the violent crime is not happening in Patong. Sure, jet-ski scam and some bar bill rip offs etc - but, in recent times, many of the violent crimes have occured elsewhere on the island. Eg. the OP.

Edited August 20, 2013 by NamKangMan

[JO1973]

Maybe it's just the types of tourists in Phuket who have no ability to defend themselves. Seriously, teenagers? That German was probably bigger than all of them combined. Get aggressive and they'll back down -- yes they will. Too many people here take the Neville Chamberlain approach when dealing with Thais which only makes matters worse. Stand up for yourself.

[NamKangMan]

Looks like time to get your Thai gf/wife to buy a gun and start playing far west if you are in Phuket.

Anyway, the guy was so drunk he can't even remember if he was beaten? How the hell do you drive like that? Maybe if taxis had a fair price he would have taken one and nothing would have happened

Possibly suffering from shock after coming off the bike. In the short time immediately after, he can't recall if he was punched and/or kicked. Of course, he could have been heavily intoxicated as well.

We don't have metered taxis on Phuket, but yes, they would offer a degree of safety and a happier and more affordable holiday for all.

[NamKangMan]

Maybe it's just the types of tourists in Phuket who have no ability to defend themselves. Seriously, teenagers? That German was probably bigger than all of them combined. Get aggressive and they'll back down -- yes they will. Too many people here take the Neville Chamberlain approach when dealing with Thais which only makes matters worse. Stand up for yourself.

You obviously haven't read the other thread running at the moment where one of them pulled out a gun and shot a Russian guy in the back.

I wouldn't call that "backing down." (no pun intended)

[watcharacters]

Problem solved:

"Instead he has resolved never to use Soi Khokyang again. In the future stick he will stick to the main roads."

[stoli]

If the police were worried more aobut stopping crime than extorting money - then these teenagers could easily be apprehended.

As a side note,

"I think they go out looking for drunk old men to target." Perhaps drunk people should not be driving motorbyces, young or old, farang or thai.

Could you please tell me if you have been personally extorted by the Police for money, and just read all of the comments on TV about it. I am not being sarcastic, just wondering why everyone I know has never been extorted, yet according to comments here, it happens every minute. I don't believe that having to go to a police station and paying a fine for not wearing a helmet qualifies, as that is just doing your job. Thanks for your response.

[MaxYakov]

...everyone should know in our times, the war starts after leaving your home everyday.

Wow, I had no idea. What should I keep in the armoury?... Jungle or desert fatigues?... Any idea where I can bullet-proof my Caribbean, and maybe add a 50 cal?

Glocks and Uzis,

Jungle/Urban (depending),

http://www.texasarmoring.com/ ,

http://www.gunbroker.com/50-Cal-Machine-Gun/Browse.aspx?Keywords=50&Cats=3024

Knock yourself out (not literally, of course).

Edited August 20, 2013 by MaxYakov

[roger rederer]

Agree 100%. Bangkok is far safer than the cesspit called Phuket. As for the Bangkok Post and The Nation; yes they do try to come across as national newspapers but fail in this by being BKKcentric pandering to the barstool farang PAD supporters who are childishly obsessed with Mr T. In this sense TV has a far more balanced cross section of posters.

Is the seemingly disproportionate amount of violence reported against foreigners in Phuket compared to Bangkok a function of the policy of the Phuket News and the lack of interest in these mugging stories by The Nation or a real difference in violence against foreigners in Phuket vs. Bangkok? Any thoughts?

The latter.

Next question, please.

Why can't it be both? I see a lot more crime reported in the expat websites than gets into The Bangkok Post or The Nation. Part of that is because The Bangkok Post and The Nation both consider themselves to be national newspapers rather than local newspapers. Also outside of Bangkok, the English language press tends to understand that their audience is 99% farangs so they report news relevant mostly to farangs while The Bangkok Post and The Nation tend to fancy themselves as serious newspapers covering everything in Thailand.

Granted, I feel safer walking down a dark alley in Bangkok at 4am than I would in Pattaya or Phuket but the other truth is that The Bangkok Post and The Nation tend not to report every petty crime against foreigners.

[hansgruber]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

 

 

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

 

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

 

Using common sense is by far the best defence..... 

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

[bermuda]

With a face like his face, I will beat him myself.

[jbrain]

I think you didn't take a good look, because if you only had taken a look at the topics posted on the first page of the Pattaya news clippings forum you would have noticed all news sources I mentioned.

And no we don't compare Pattaya with Patong because when there is a news article about Pattaya it can concern Pattaya,Jomtien,Phratumnak, Naklua, Nongprue,Nongplalai,Huayai and even Sattahip or Bang sare, which is all together again a multiple in size compared with the area where the tourist assaults reported on the Phuket forum happen.

You're right. I really don't care enough to look at the Pattaya Forum and make comments on it. As an old lyric in an old song from an old band that I worked for stated: "i wouldn't live there if you paid me to!" Enjoy...

I have such an idea that you even haven't been to Pattaya ever, because your display of denial is bliss.

In Pattaya we haven't had the need yet for the DSI to make a permanent office here to clean up the place. And if I take a look at the tourist murders that have been reported on the Phuket forum in the past 12 months, you outdo Pattaya with glance.

Look at your own post a bit higher up on this page where you announce that you're happy you can escape your so much loved Phuket for the next 9 months.

I could say the same about you and Phuket. I have a really nice place in California and my fiancee has a US visa. Thank you for your concern though! I'm touched!

And when have I ever come on the Pattaya local forum to put down Pattaya? I'm glad you're happy there. I've never had any real problem here either. No one bothers me... Best wishes to you and your life in what you seem to consider the best place in the world to live.

Jimmy, why do you always try to steer away from what we are really discussing.

I never said that you put down Pattaya, I said that in past times posters on the Phuket forum would refer to Pattaya as the crime ridden area of Thailand while Phuket was so much safer, and I had to agree with those statements at that time.

I also never considereed Pattaya as the best place in the world to live.

I've been to Phuket 3 times for the bike week, many years ago, and I think it was at that time a better place to live than Pattaya though considerably more expensive.

But those times have passed.From the recent news reports on this forum and elsewhere it is clear that the crimne rate in the Phuket tourist area has risen to dangerous levels.

Almost everyone on this forum now seems to agree with that, only you keep denying there is a high level of crime on the island, yet you're happy you not have to stay in Phuket for 9 months.

Edited August 20, 2013 by jbrain

[MaxYakov]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

Using common sense is by far the best defence.....

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

Do you mean "not ending up" alive and able to tell (at least most of) his story? Maybe you take all those action movies you watch a little too seriously?

Edited August 20, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Pi Sek]

Actually this type of crime seems to increase about this time of the year around Rawai. Yet we still don't have any police patrols at night. My neighbor is out there right now patrolling as one of the heads of the civil defense volunteers in Rawai. The Chalong Police showed up today to collect fines on Soi Sai Yuan this afternoon, but they really can't be bothered to do their real jobs and deter crime at night. It doesn't pay nearly as well and it's a lot more dangerous to deal with the punk kids around here... So much for the clean up Phuket rhetoric I've been reading in some of the local news this month...

This is why Phuket has the crime problem it has now. Phuket was always going to get to this point, eventually, well, it appears it's there now.

We have had a disfunctional police force for many years that has seen collecting tea money and money from traffic tickets and bribes as more important than having an active presence to deter crime, especially at night. That, coupled with the fact anyone can get never ending bail, even for serious crimes, if you pay, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of justice taking place on Phuket. There certainly doesn't seem to be the locking up of criminals for the protection of the public.

Had this German guy been murdered, and that's hard to prove when you are kicked off your motorbike, because the assailants ride off and your injuries can be attributed to a motorbike accident, not kicked to the head or hit on the head or body with a heavy blunt instrument.

So, they see they have killed the guy, just take the cash and leave jewellery and phone and it looks like the cause of death is a motorbike accident. Just as much a perfect murder as throwing someone off a balcony. Sure, the BIB are happy to write it off as motorbike accident as well.

The police seem to work hard when a tourist has obviously been murdered, mainly because of the global bad publicity and the "tarnishing of Phuket's image" but wouldn't a little more prevention be better than the cure, not to mention, it would save a few lives and serious trauma.

Corruption is like cancer. It spreads and ultimately kills, one way or another.

Unfortunately, we only have to look at the whole system here to see how it was destined to fail for the people, particularly, police paying money to be transfered here. Just a ridiculous situation.

I really do wonder how bad they will allow it to get before they admit that real and effective change must be implemented, or risk major losses from the tourism sector.

We can all only hope that crime does not get that out of control here that our lifestyles are affected. Another member mentioned his friends do not go out at night anymore. I will leave the island before I become a prisoner in my own home due to criminal behaviour here.

I really hope it never comes to that, but corruption here is so systematic, entrenched and endemic that I can not see any positive change in the future.

I first came on a short break to Phuket in 2004 and since 2008 have been coming for business errands for a few days 2-3 times a year and lived just outside Phuket Town for 15 months 2010-2011 whilst managing a project.

I have found Patong to always have been dodgy and Phuket in general to be the most unpleasant place in south Thailand (including the 3 Deep South provinces - although I've never been bombed or shot at there). The Rawai & Nai Harn area has become very dangerous since the Muay Thai training tourists came and sponsored the development of all the bars in the Rawai-Sai Yuan area, which were very thin on the ground when I first came. Nai Harn however is still my favourite beach in Phuket.

Samui knocks spots off Phuket as a nice place to live, although I would say that the fact that everyone seems to know each other contributes to personal security moreso than the performance of the civil services. Although admittedly there are no big Central or Jungceylon shopping centres and the prices of flights are extortionate.

[Old Croc]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

Using common sense is by far the best defence.....

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

Hans Gruber just after discovering that offence doesn't always work:

[atlbravosfan]

So he does not want to go to the police because that won't do any good but does decide to go to the papers?

Not sure I understand the point you are trying to make...

[MaxYakov]

jbrain, on 20 Aug 2013 - 00:06, said:

I think you didn't take a good look, because if you only had taken a look at the topics posted on the first page of the Pattaya news clippings forum you would have noticed all news sources I mentioned.

And no we don't compare Pattaya with Patong because when there is a news article about Pattaya it can concern Pattaya,Jomtien,Phratumnak, Naklua, Nongprue,Nongplalai,Huayai and even Sattahip or Bang sare, which is all together again a multiple in size compared with the area where the tourist assaults reported on the Phuket forum happen.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're right. I really don't care enough to look at the Pattaya Forum and make comments on it. As an old lyric in an old song from an old band that I worked for stated: "i wouldn't live there if you paid me to!" Enjoy...

I have such an idea that you even haven't been to Pattaya ever, because your display of denial is bliss.

In Pattaya we haven't had the need yet for the DSI to make a permanent office here to clean up the place. And if I take a look at the tourist murders that have been reported on the Phuket forum in the past 12 months, you outdo Pattaya with glance.

Look at your own post a bit higher up on this page where you announce that you're happy you can escape your so much loved Phuket for the next 9 months.

I could say the same about you and Phuket. I have a really nice place in California and my fiancee has a US visa. Thank you for your concern though! I'm touched!

And when have I ever come on the Pattaya local forum to put down Pattaya? I'm glad you're happy there. I've never had any real problem here either. No one bothers me... Best wishes to you and your life in what you seem to consider the best place in the world to live.

Jimmy, why do you always try to steer away from what we are really discussing.

I never said that you put down Pattaya, I said that in past times posters on the Phuket forum would refer to Pattaya as the crime ridden area of Thailand while Phuket was so much safer, and I had to agree with those statements at that time.

I also never considereed Pattaya as the best place in the world to live.

I've been to Phuket 3 times for the bike week, many years ago, and I think it was at that time a better place to live than Pattaya though considerably more expensive.

But those times have passed.From the recent news reports on this forum and elsewhere it is clear that the crimne rate in the Phuket tourist area has risen to dangerous levels.

Almost everyone on this forum now seems to agree with that, only you keep denying there is a high level of crime on the island, yet you use the words HAPPY TO ESCAPE from Phuket.

Could it be that there are even worse cities and in a so-called "civilized" country at that?:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012

[sirchai]

He definitely does not look like the nicest one to have as neighbor, often something has happend before the main incident, lived on Phuket for a year almost twenty years ago, for a year, never had a problem. but the people over there have different understanding of humor and their attitudes are not the same like in the Isaan have to be taken with care. As I have been working in the security business, I can only say he lost his awareness or better said he was aware but did listen to the signs most victims who survived an assault will tell, "I have had that strange feeling etc. why are they not listening to their instincts, everyone should know in our times, the war starts after leaving your home everyday.

Your post is ridiculous..The shit hits the fan, when people write such nonsense. Couldn't it it be that he's a decent guy?

Or does he have the 'wrong nationality'?

Edited August 20, 2013 by sirchai

[eezergood]

Time for some good old fashioned vigilante justice on our little Island!

[andreandre]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

Using common sense is by far the best defence.....

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

You really are not showing common sense if you believe that....

EDIT..OK i'll give you "hard to" but still very possible......

Edited August 20, 2013 by andreandre

[andreandre]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

Using common sense is by far the best defence.....

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

Hans Gruber just after discovering that offence doesn't always work:

hans.png

We're on common ground on this one oldcroc....a scenario thats more than likely in the real world...

[RigPig]

Firstly I think this perpetual debate / argument over Phuket and Pattaya is boring, irrelevant and off topic and the mods should step in, if you want to discuss this open a thread. I am not interested in wading through that BS when trying to read about someone who potentially had his life threatened no matter where it was!!

I agree with the comments about the police force here is pretty much a waste of space but these people not reporting these incidents are just as bad. The police can't do anything (not saying they would), and have the perfect reason (excuse) not to if these incidents are not recorded. These people are just as culpable in the execution of the next attack! It only reenforces to the perpetrators that nothing will happen.

Was the reason he didn't report it because he was intoxicated and shouldn't have been on the road? I guess we will never know now.

A curious thing I have noticed in this country (in other places as well as Phuket and Pattaya) is the Thai logic that the fine should be based on the perpetrator’s ability to be able to afford it. <deleted> is that about? The whole idea of a fine is to act as a deterrent if it easily affordable it doesn't work....

This is part of the reason farang's are targeted as it is seen by Thais their ability to pay is greater than a Thai person's. Start fining them 500 Baht for not wearing a helmet and see if the message gets through, if they can't pay lock them up or confiscate the bike and charge them storage, sell it after 3 months. But the law has to be enforced and when the enforcers are doing the same thing.....

The point I am trying to make is there is no equality in the law here for everyone on the same scale and the law has to be enforced or we have anarchy.

Who polices the police in this country?

[MaxYakov]

Why don't expats arm themselves at night?

I carry pepper spray everywhere and would take down a group of these kids and it's totally legal.

Defense is the best form of offense.

Until one of them shoot you with the gun that they may well have not used if you had not pepper sprayed them.

Often quoted "Defence is the best form of offence." is fine if you are trained for it..otherwise its just more keyboard tough guy tough talk BS !!

Using common sense is by far the best defence.....

Hard to shoot someone when you can't see.

I'll take my chances on offense because I'm not ending up like this guy.

Hans Gruber just after discovering that offence doesn't always work:

hans.png

A "Hans down" winning reply!

[nosatisfaction]

An excellent description of the perps from someone who can't recall whether he was beaten or not.

Correct, and now everybody knows where he DOES keep his money.

Personnaly I think he went to spend his money in that new bar and is scared of his GF, hence the self inflicted scratches and bruises.

555555555555555

[nosatisfaction]

Time for some good old fashioned vigilante justice on our little Island!

OUR little island??????????????????/

Looking too many movies is not good for education or common sence.

[hellodolly]

He definitely does not look like the nicest one to have as neighbor, often something has happend before the main incident, lived on Phuket for a year almost twenty years ago, for a year, never had a problem. but the people over there have different understanding of humor and their attitudes are not the same like in the Isaan have to be taken with care. As I have been working in the security business, I can only say he lost his awareness or better said he was aware but did listen to the signs most victims who survived an assault will tell, "I have had that strange feeling etc. why are they not listening to their instincts, everyone should know in our times, the war starts after leaving your home everyday.

If every day out side your home is a war move and change your occupation.

[hellodolly]

So he does not want to go to the police because that won't do any good but does decide to go to the papers?

Not sure I understand the point you are trying to make...

I am not sure the point he is trying to make. Unless he is just seeking attention.

[hellodolly]

Is the seemingly disproportionate amount of violence reported against foreigners in Phuket compared to Bangkok a function of the policy of the Phuket News and the lack of interest in these mugging stories by The Nation or a real difference in violence against foreigners in Phuket vs. Bangkok? Any thoughts?

The latter.

Next question, please.

Why can't it be both? I see a lot more crime reported in the expat websites than gets into The Bangkok Post or The Nation. Part of that is because The Bangkok Post and The Nation both consider themselves to be national newspapers rather than local newspapers. Also outside of Bangkok, the English language press tends to understand that their audience is 99% farangs so they report news relevant mostly to farangs while The Bangkok Post and The Nation tend to fancy themselves as serious newspapers covering everything in Thailand.

Granted, I feel safer walking down a dark alley in Bangkok at 4am than I would in Pattaya or Phuket but the other truth is that The Bangkok Post and The Nation tend not to report every petty crime against foreigners.

Well said. When I open the Bangkok post I am looking for National and international news. Pattaya and Phuket have there own local English speaking news papers to report local new's.

My question is.

Is these type of crimes increasing out of proportion to the increase in population of are the papers just beginning to report them. As at the moment they are what will sell the Jet ski scams are still going on but no longer as big a deal as they were at first and right now drunks getting mugged are.

[marell]

Where is Charles Bronson when you need him?

[Jimi007]

Another ex-pat gets mugged, not really new news, but it has happened many times around Nai Harn and Rawai. Some years ago a very good friend, Simon Knudsen, a man married to a local with a teenage son, was mugged and brutally stabbed and kicked so much, that he died 40 minutes later in hospital of massive internal bleeding. This recent scenario, seems rather similar to what happened to Simon, pushed off his motorbike by 3 or 4 muggers and stabbed multiple times with a large knife or machete. To date, to my knowledge, no one has ever been charged with his murder. Is it not time that these attacks are solved and the cowardly little a***holes locked up for a long time. I am sure the local police and or the local population have reasonable ideas who the perpetrators are.

I remember that case. It happen down the road from the Kata Viewpoint. It was never solved that I remember either. There were a few in attacks after the one Simon was killed in at night in that area until they finally put some street lights and a bit of police presence for a while in that area. Now the punks seem to be staying closer to home and there is very little police presence in Rawai/Nai Harn area at night, still...