http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24000421

Never before in the field of human politics, has so much benign drivel been bestowed on so many to so few.

I'm glad to see that Eton taught him something.

Blood, soil, fears and bleats

Blood, soil, fears and bleats

There speaks the Irishman....as ever the objective critic of all things Brit.

What Cameron is far too polite to point out is that the ever-increasing Russian community's presence in London is down to the fact that they can find the things so noticeably absent in the authoritarian nightmare of Czar Putin's little empire, most notably the rule of law and a safe place to bring up children and get them decently educated.

Far from being some "Little England" complex, who can blame any half-witted Russian with a chunk of change and a family, moving them out of Russia as soon as possible.

Blood, soil, fears and bleats

There speaks the Irishman....as ever the objective critic of all things Brit.

I like the objective bit however I must point out that I may be a critic of many things, 'of all things Brit', are just a few, but critical reviews can often be praiseworthy, the NHS for one.

I am sure you haven't missed the irony dripping in every paragraph of Camerons baloney, however he believes in enough of it to shout from the roof tops to try and take the masses with him and the tabloids to rally to his banner in the hope that people will forget that he couldn't even take his own back-benchers with him and gets a little humiliation from the Russians.

But pleeeese,

clearing the continent of Fascism.................... No help from any body else

Abolishing slavery.............................................No need to abolish something that is abhorrent in the first place

Inventing every sport currently played, even irony can be misplaced on a grand scale, and I guess you noticed the tabloid inferences to churchill and I hope you didn't miss my ironic retorts to the great orators best creations.

shame he didn't mention the way former colonies were returned peacefully to their indigenous peoples!!! The return of stolen artefacts, the Koh-in -noor diamondm Elgin Marbles etc etc

Ahh, the irony.........

Dare I mention the imposition of the Poll Tax on the Scots, the Scots are many things, but Guinea Pigs, I dare say they might object too.

Better we not start talking about spuds...

I can wax lyrical about spuds, I once did a talk regarding them:

Different varieties

Varying menus

Bringing down a G'ment

Newspaper articles

Absentee Landlords

Man's inhumanity to Man

Don't get me started

I am sure you haven't missed the irony dripping in every paragraph of Camerons baloney, however he believes in enough of it to shout from the roof tops to try and take the masses with him and the tabloids to rally to his banner in the hope that people will forget that he couldn't even take his own back-benchers with him and gets a little humiliation from the Russians.

But pleeeese,

clearing the continent of Fascism.................... No help from any body else

Abolishing slavery.............................................No need to abolish something that is abhorrent in the first place

Inventing every sport currently played, even irony can be misplaced on a grand scale, and I guess you noticed the tabloid inferences to churchill and I hope you didn't miss my ironic retorts to the great orators best creations.

shame he didn't mention the way former colonies were returned peacefully to their indigenous peoples!!! The return of stolen artefacts, the Koh-in -noor diamondm Elgin Marbles etc etc

Ahh, the irony.........

Perhaps you prefer PMs to be more of a GUBU type, into gun-running, phone-tapping, philandering and utterly corrupt and on the make. Celtic Mist indeed....

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism, and then warmly welcomed Nazi war criminals in the aftermath.

Just because something is abhorrent it still needs someone to actually address the issue and bring it to an end. While Britain was a key instigator and player in the Atlantic slave trade at least they latterly played a significant part in ending the trade.

Where were football (soccer to those who insist), rugby and cricket created and codified? Funnily enough the Old Etonians football team has appeared in 6 FA Cup finals, winning it on 2 occasions. So Cameron could be doubly proud.

You could have added that the Irish Civil War of 1922-23 between de Valera's government and the anti-Treaty IRA, saw probably twice as many deaths as the War of Independence against Britain, as well as major economic destruction, summary executions and a concerted ethnic cleansing of Protestants from the "Free" State.

Bottom line: no country is perfect, but try looking at your own heritage before rubbishing another's....

Bottom line: no country is perfect, but try looking at your own heritage before rubbishing another's....

Ahh Folium, it is a shame you do not know me better.

I am having trouble with my Internet Connection, so forgive me if I answer in small bites, but the other members may have to forgive the distraction, this is not Bedlam proper, and I believe it should have the semblance of staying on topic, this has already veered miles off, but if no one disagrees I will respond to your post in full, but in bite sizes, whilst reading Wind in the Willows to my boy, of course.

First of all, as this might get interesting

You could have added that the Irish Civil War of 1922-23 between de Valera's government and the anti-Treaty IRA, saw probably twice as many deaths as the War of Independence against Britain,

We do need to get our historic perspective right, right!

De Valera was anti-treaty, Collins was pro-treaty, thought I would just clear that up first.

Although I accept in all probability, Collins was not exactly pro-treaty, but saw saw it as the best of any alternatives, and DV, well kinda left him out on a limb, but that's another discussion.

Just one other thing before I respond to the post:

I don't rubbish Britain, I am critical of certain aspects, as I am of the Republic and of other Nations, if they are taken in isolation and not in the round, that is not a criticism of me, but the understanding of the reader.

First of all, as this might get interesting

You could have added that the Irish Civil War of 1922-23 between de Valera's government and the anti-Treaty IRA, saw probably twice as many deaths as the War of Independence against Britain,

We do need to get our historic perspective right, right!

De Valera was anti-treaty, Collins was pro-treaty, thought I would just clear that up first.

Although I accept in all probability, Collins was not exactly pro-treaty, but saw saw it as the best of any alternatives, and DV, well kinda left him out on a limb, but that's another discussion.

My error, of course DV lost the election in 1922 to Michael Collins. DV's role, or lack of, during the Civil War remains an interesting one.

Ahh, the irony.........

Perhaps you prefer PMs to be more of a GUBU type, into gun-running, phone-tapping, philandering and utterly corrupt and on the make. Celtic Mist indeed....

Oh come on Folium, are you suggesting that successive British Governments haven't sold arms to countries with slightly, shall we say, dodgy human rights issues. Corrupt MP's Heaven Forbid, as for phone tapping, we won't mention Nixon, oh I know he is a U.S politician, but I can't show tonight the UK has done so, what do you think? Philandering....... Irish Politicians, yup they are the only ones to do it, I hold my hands down on that one.

It appears I might have to explain a few things 'GUBU', grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented, a scandal in the Haughey G'ment, we don't have them anywhere else do we?

As for the gun running incident, I wonder in the same circumstances, who wouldn't do the same, that again Khun Folium is another debate, one I am quite willing to undertake.

First of all, as this might get interesting

You could have added that the Irish Civil War of 1922-23 between de Valera's government and the anti-Treaty IRA, saw probably twice as many deaths as the War of Independence against Britain,

We do need to get our historic perspective right, right!

De Valera was anti-treaty, Collins was pro-treaty, thought I would just clear that up first.

Although I accept in all probability, Collins was not exactly pro-treaty, but saw saw it as the best of any alternatives, and DV, well kinda left him out on a limb, but that's another discussion.

My error, of course DV lost the election in 1922 to Michael Collins. DV's role, or lack of, during the Civil War remains an interesting one.

It is quite a significant error, all things considered, the divided roles of that era are still contested today.

But your smoke screen of the election also shows limited knowledge, it is quite complicated, but the two differing factions actually worked together and created a pact to minimise their losses in the election, but you got something right, Collins did win, but the result is actually not as clear cut as you would think..

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism,

I am afraid I need to tell you that nearly 70,000 men of the Republic fought for the Uk, countless others with other countries namely Canada and The U.S by the end of the War.

and then warmly welcomed Nazi war criminals in the aftermath.

A little like the myth of refuelling German U-Boats, however the U.S didn't, shall we say improvise the help of captured German scientists in accelerating their knowledge on Jet and Rocket manufacture.

DV's role, or lack of, during the Civil War remains an interesting one.

You have got that just about right, blimey yet another debate, maybe we could combine them and not bore everybody else.

Ahh, the irony.........

Perhaps you prefer PMs to be more of a GUBU type, into gun-running, phone-tapping, philandering and utterly corrupt and on the make. Celtic Mist indeed....

Oh come on Folium, are you suggesting that successive British Governments haven't sold arms to countries with slightly, shall we say, dodgy human rights issues. Corrupt MP's Heaven Forbid, as for phone tapping, we won't mention Nixon, oh I know he is a U.S politician, but I can't show tonight the UK has done so, what do you think? Philandering....... Irish Politicians, yup they are the only ones to do it, I hold my hands down on that one.

It appears I might have to explain a few things 'GUBU', grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented, a scandal in the Haughey G'ment, we don't have them anywhere else do we?

As for the gun running incident, I wonder in the same circumstances, who wouldn't do the same, that again Khun Folium is another debate, one I am quite willing to undertake.

Can't wait to hear your defence of the gun-running, corrupt, phone-tapping politician who even outshines Berlusconi for his misdeeds and would put most Thai politicians to shame in terms of the bare-faced cheek of his obvious corrupt activities. Celtic Mist and his own island......

Running guns to terrorists in conjunction with an ex Waffen SS convicted war criminal (one of those given sanctuary and citizenship by the Irish government). You would be pushed to make it up, but sadly it's all there to see. And let's not mention the Catholic Church and its "laying on of hands". No, that would be airing too much dirty laundry. But that reminds me of Magdalene laundries....and so it could go on.

As I said, no country is perfect and politicians all have feet of clay, it's just that some reallly take the proverbial. If you are going to post provocative posts, don't be surprised to get it returned with interest.

What's the old saying....

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." And it goes on about motes and beams but I'm sure you get my point.

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism,

I am afraid I need to tell you that nearly 70,000 men of the Republic fought for the Uk, countless others with other countries namely Canada and The U.S by the end of the War.

Can I also suggest, that neutrality was, in all its guises, a good thing for Britain, if it had declared for the 'Allies', it would have made it a prime invasion route, that Britain would have been sorely tested to defend. Whilst neutral, if invaded, would have almost certainly drawn the U.S into an early declaration, remember it was Germany who declared on he U.S first not the other way round.

First of all, as this might get interesting

You could have added that the Irish Civil War of 1922-23 between de Valera's government and the anti-Treaty IRA, saw probably twice as many deaths as the War of Independence against Britain,

We do need to get our historic perspective right, right!

De Valera was anti-treaty, Collins was pro-treaty, thought I would just clear that up first.

Although I accept in all probability, Collins was not exactly pro-treaty, but saw saw it as the best of any alternatives, and DV, well kinda left him out on a limb, but that's another discussion.

My error, of course DV lost the election in 1922 to Michael Collins. DV's role, or lack of, during the Civil War remains an interesting one.

It is quite a significant error, all things considered, the divided roles of that era are still contested today.

But your smoke screen of the election also shows limited knowledge, it is quite complicated, but the two differing factions actually worked together and created a pact to minimise their losses in the election, but you got something right, Collins did win, but the result is actually not as clear cut as you would think..

Talking of smoke screens I see you avoided comment re the fact that an estimated twice as many people died in the Irish Civil War compared to the War of Independence and that it caused both short term significant economic issues and set the stage for more long term political problems. Also the summary executions, tying prisoners to landmines etc are on a par with the worst Black & Tan excesses which I would roundly condemn as both immoral and counterproductive.

Please drop the patronising tone, it does little to advance your cause. Thanks.

OK Folium, I am unable to respond any further tonight, but as promised, I will respond in time, one thing, you keep posting other issues for me to respond to, I will try and answer them in time,

Can I suggest my OP was not provocative, the Magdalene Laundries, crickey that is a Leap of Faith from my OP.

Until tomorrow, until then revise your history, there's a few gaps.........

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism,

I am afraid I need to tell you that nearly 70,000 men of the Republic fought for the Uk, countless others with other countries namely Canada and The U.S by the end of the War.

If you are referring to WW1 approx 200,000 men from the island of Ireland fought for the British army. Both the 16th and 36th Divisions had distinguished war records and their bravery was noteworthy. Interestingly only 60% returned to Ireland after the war and many faced severe repercussions during the Independence War. Almost half the civilians executed by the IRA were ex servicemen who had served in the British Army.

Re WW2 I believe the figure was approximately 100,000 Irishmen joined the fight against Nazism. The shameful treatment of the 5000 who left the Irish army to do so, was recognised only this year in an official apology and pardon by the Irish government.

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism,

I am afraid I need to tell you that nearly 70,000 men of the Republic fought for the Uk, countless others with other countries namely Canada and The U.S by the end of the War.

Can I also suggest, that neutrality was, in all its guises, a good thing for Britain, if it had declared for the 'Allies', it would have made it a prime invasion route, that Britain would have been sorely tested to defend. Whilst neutral, if invaded, would have almost certainly drawn the U.S into an early declaration, remember it was Germany who declared on he U.S first not the other way round.

Rather like his stance during the Civil War, de Valera shrewdly played the weather vane as WW2 progressed. Early majoring on the concept of my "enemy's enemy" etc, soon passed once the likely outcome become apparent and he became far less enchanted with the Germans. Mercifully people such as Sean Russell were few in number and de Valera did a great job of putting the IRA out of commission during WW2..

and then warmly welcomed Nazi war criminals in the aftermath.

A little like the myth of refuelling German U-Boats, however the U.S didn't, shall we say improvise the help of captured German scientists in accelerating their knowledge on Jet and Rocket manufacture.

So no Nazi war criminals were aided and abetted in their escape from Germany. and none settled in the Republic as citizens....?

Or is it that because the US used von Braun etc, the occasional SS dude was not a big deal even if they had been convicted of murder. Is that what you mean by a myth?

So is this link a myth?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-devs-ireland-became-safe-haven-for-fugitive-nazis-26443045.html

Or perhaps somewhat de Valera-like, who kept Ireland out of the minor task of clearing the continent of Fascism,

I am afraid I need to tell you that nearly 70,000 men of the Republic fought for the Uk, countless others with other countries namely Canada and The U.S by the end of the War.

Can I also suggest, that neutrality was, in all its guises, a good thing for Britain, if it had declared for the 'Allies', it would have made it a prime invasion route, that Britain would have been sorely tested to defend. Whilst neutral, if invaded, would have almost certainly drawn the U.S into an early declaration, remember it was Germany who declared on he U.S first not the other way round.

in context of "Germany declared war first" it should be mentioned that (as in WWI) Germany was bound by the "Berlin-Tokyo Axis" to declare war on the U.S.

Back to the original post and David Camoron's response -

He noted that Britain 'cleared the continent of Fascism' in a response to a Russian remark - where Russia contributed 20 million casualties to the same cause - a far greater sacrifice than Britain.

He thought immediately of a teen pop group - One Direction - who will be forgotten within a decade, but did not mention the Commonwealth - which will, hopefully, be around for many decades. This man does not care a jot for Britain's supporters, nor for British history. Which is why he has surrounded himself with similar 'thinkers' and has as little feeling for Britain as Tony Blair.

The man does not think before speaking. He is just like all our other politicians this century. Not a statesman among the lot - just little men scuttling around the straw in the stables. We need a few thoroughbreds in world politics.

Back to the original post and David Camoron's response -

He noted that Britain 'cleared the continent of Fascism' in a response to a Russian remark - where Russia contributed 20 million casualties to the same cause - a far greater sacrifice than Britain.

He thought immediately of a teen pop group - One Direction - who will be forgotten within a decade, but did not mention the Commonwealth - which will, hopefully, be around for many decades. This man does not care a jot for Britain's supporters, nor for British history. Which is why he has surrounded himself with similar 'thinkers' and has as little feeling for Britain as Tony Blair.

The man does not think before speaking. He is just like all our other politicians this century. Not a statesman among the lot - just little men scuttling around the straw in the stables. We need a few thoroughbreds in world politics.

Thoroughbreds are hard to come by, HB, but one will turn up soon!

The last great PM was Thatcher (agree with her or not, and generally I didn't, she had a vision for Britain), and before that Attlee. Both appeared out of nowhere.