Immigration Laws - Are Thais Subject To Retaliation In Other countries?

[Forethat]

In an adjacent topic there are numerous claims that Thai nationals could be subject to some sort of retaliation in other countries when applying for visa or residential permits.

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!"

So...what do you think? Are Thais subject to retaliation. And if not, do you think Thais SHOULD be treated the same way YOU are being treated by Thai immigration laws?

[bangkockney]

No and no, lest every country on the planet run their affairs according to the lowest common denominator.

[benalibina]

Funny man, you took the ball by the horns !

Ofcourse not is my answer.

The culture of a country is seen by the way how it treats its guests !!

No money no honey, sadly enough !

[MacChine]

Well I admit to wanting to lobby my congress woman to introduce a bill hat would make all Thais in my county;

1) not be able to hold land

2) not be able to hold a majority share in their own business.

3) to be subject to having to leave the country ever 90 days, no matter how long the validity of a visa.

4) to accept outrageous racism and not object to being called "chink" or "slope" ( to their face, too!! )

5) to consistently get the low end of the internet spectrum.

6) to run around doing endless paper chases to get anything done, at all.

7) to have no rights of demonstration whatsoever.

8) to pay off officials to procure documents that should be free

Feel free to add

feel free to add

[benalibina]

Well I admit to wanting to lobby my congress woman to introduce a bill hat would make all Thais in my county;

1) not be able to hold land

2) not be able to hold a majority share in their own business.

3) to be subject to having to leave the country ever 90 days, no matter how long the validity of a visa.

4) to accept outrageous racism and not object to being called "chink" or "slope" ( to their face, too!! )

5) to consistently get the low end of the internet spectrum.

6) to run around doing endless paper chases to get anything done, at all.

7) to have no rights of demonstration whatsoever.

8) to pay off officials to procure documents that should be free

Feel free to add

feel free to add

I think you have a good chance if your congress woman is of THAI ORIGIN !!

[GuestHouse]

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!"

How easy is it for a Thai to get a visa to go live in the countries you hold citizenship of?

My guess is its a lot more difficult than for you to get a visa to live in Thailand and my certainty is that your government(s) are more concerned with trade between themselves and Thailand than they are the gripes of a few of their citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere.

[Kudel]

Op most Thais aplying for visas to the west havent got a pot to piss in and would never get said visa without khun farang financially vouching for them thats the visa rule in most western countries .

When said farang hubby wants to go live in Thailand based upon marriage he also has to show the cash to get his right to stay there.

In the first situation Thai person enjoys same rights as falang in his home country.

In second situation falang hubby is tolerated and thats about it.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Kudel

[Forethat]

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!"

How easy is it for a Thai to get a visa to go live in the countries you hold citizenship of?

My guess is its a lot more difficult than for you to get a visa to live in Thailand and my certainty is that your government(s) are more concerned with trade between themselves and Thailand than they are the gripes of a few of their citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere.

I think this is a really interesting question. The answer is that in all three cases it would be considerably easier for myself to get a visa in Thailand.

[MJP]

I've been through the UK visa process for Thai nationals and it is not pretty. In fact it was nasty, harsh and unfair. A cruel ordeal.

Even after six months of refusals and going to court and winning a court order the person at Heathrow immigration still tried to refuse entry even though we had a three year old with us. It got very heated with the immigration officer even screaming after us in the bitchiest of tones that we had to be out in six months! This was a six month family visitor visa.

We were back in BKK within three weeks.

Edited October 18, 2013 by MJP

[bifftastic]

I've been through the UK visa process for Thai nationals and it is not pretty. In fact it was nasty, harsh and unfair. A cruel ordeal.

Even after six months of refusals and going to court and winning a court order the person at Heathrow immigration still tried to refuse entry even though we had a three year old with us. It got very heated with the immigration officer even screaming after us in the bitchiest of tones that we had to be out in six months! This was a six month family visitor visa.

We were back in BKK within three weeks.

We've had three UK Family Visit Visas, I found it to be reasonably straight forward. To end up in court over a £60 form filling exercise must take some doing!

Anyway, back to the retaliation concept of the OP.

Governments tend not to decide their immigration policies based on other countries immigration policies. In fact, I doubt that they are even aware of them.

[Kudel]

I've been through the UK visa process for Thai nationals and it is not pretty. In fact it was nasty, harsh and unfair. A cruel ordeal.

Even after six months of refusals and going to court and winning a court order the person at Heathrow immigration still tried to refuse entry even though we had a three year old with us. It got very heated with the immigration officer even screaming after us in the bitchiest of tones that we had to be out in six months! This was a six month family visitor visa.

We were back in BKK within three weeks.

All to easy to complain about visa procedures to western countrys on internet forums without knowing the the real story why applications have been turned down from both sides.

[manarak]

Reading OP's post I don't know what the point is, the situation of western countries are so different from Thailand's.

For example, western countries don't let people in in the first place, tourist visas are severely restricted and some Thai or Russian wanting to work in France/Germany/USA/UK, etc. has virtually no chance of being allowed to do so.

So no retaliation needed.

[Forethat]

What is interesting is the many posts on TV with regards to Thai immigration laws and how expats are being treated "unfair" and if only farangs were able to buy land and yada yada yada.

There are also a remarkable number of posts where the author suggests that their home country should apply some sort of distinction based on nationalities and adopt an "eye for en eye" policy towards citizens of countries that enforce a more stringent immigration policy.

This is utter childish rubbish, if you ask me. I can only assume that this view is only represented by an exceedingly small number of expats, and by no means represent a generic view.

The truth is, that those who believe Thailand are treating farangs as <deleted>, have none or very little knowledge of how Thais are being treated in their own home countries in Europe, where - with very few exceptions - arbitrary bullshit sets the standard for an inhumane and dangerous view on humans and their social life, something that sometimes inhibits people to move across borders even though families and their wellbeing are at stake.

The simple truth is that unless you are extradited out of Thailand you would be able to live there if you wanted to, where as a Thai wouldn't even be able to cross the border of most European countries unless someone was prepared to sponsor the visit.

The truth is that Thailand is one of the most accessible countries there is in terms of immigration. Contrary, if a Thai child and mother had the option of reporting to the authorities every 90 days, if that meant they could stay in the country where they have lived for many years, I'm pretty confident they would gladly accept that option. But the average expat cries like a little girl because they have to do exactly this.

Most expats should be extremely happy that Thailand doesn't start treating farangs the same way Thais are being treated abroad.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Forethat

[kikoman]

My wife applied for a visa for to visit my family in Arizona, just a visitors visa, my wife has no desire to move to the States, we were given a long visa application to fill out we, did everything that was requested, we went for the interview and the application was turned down, because my wife was not working and was applying with my income, she had to show she had a life here in Thailand that she would come back to. When we stated she owned 22 rai of rice fields' had two children and her family here to return to, they said based on her income she was not eligible.

I asked to talk to a supervisor, we had to come back in the afternoon to see the supervisor, as I was explaining to him what happened he said he knew what happened as he witnessed our complete interview. He stated that the visa request was rejected because my wife could had no verifiable income, and that besides the fact I been living in Thailand for four years I had a Thai tourist visa and could not verify my intentions of returning to Thailand after my visit.

I explained that my wife's income was my income (Family income) he stated I needed to include that on my wife's visa request, and I stated why if that's what was needed to approve my wife's visa application, why was that information not included on the visa application.

I said OK give me back the application and we will refile it with the added information,He stated "No" I can not do that applications was rejected. You need to file a new application and repay the application fee.

Needless to say we did not reapply, and I went to Arizona alone.

On the other hand I was given a visa on Arrival in Thailand, and had to make frequent visa runs, I was allowed easy access to live in Thailand, while my wife was not allowed a visa to meet my family. I think Thailand's immigration service is much fairer and a lot less expensive.

Edited October 18, 2013 by kikoman

[MAJIC]

No certainly not.

There is no comparison to suggest otherwise.

Why?

Thais can come into the UK on a Settlement Visa. (roughly 33 months)

They do not have to check in every 90 days,either to the Home Office, UKBA, or the UK Police.

The same applies for their next Visa,which is ILR (Indefinate Leave to Remain)

And allows for applying for Citizenship within 5 years,of having arrived (previously 3+years,my wife obtained Citizenship in 3 years and 3 month,which has now changed to 5 years at the end of this month Oct 2013)

They can start work in the UK from day one. (without a work permit) and has many months to aquire, a free of charge NI no. (National Insurance Number )

They can buy Land or property in their own name.

They can buy a vehicle in their own name.Car or Motorcycle!

They can use a Thai Driving Licence for one year on arrival (before needing a UK Provisional Licence).

During the time they are subject to Immigration control,they are only obliged to contact the UKBA/Home office to notify a change of address,and/or a breakdown of the relationship, or a contravention of the Visa conditions,which initially the Sponsor is responsible for,any notifications.

They can also get free Health care under the NHS on a Settlement Visa +.Their own GP and any Surgery or other treatment,requiring Out patient or In Patient treatment,again free of charge, the only payment they have to pay is £7.80 for Prescriptions,the same as everyone else in the UK,who are non exempt of charges.

My Information is that there are 35,000 Thai Permanent Residents in the UK,according to 2012 figures!

Far from subject to any Retaliation in this Country,I am pleased to say Thai people in the UK are not discriminated against,our laws would not tolerate it!

[I Like Thai]

Funny man, you took the ball by the horns !

Ofcourse not is my answer.

The culture of a country is seen by the way how it treats its guests !!

No money no honey, sadly enough !

Bull

[Kudel]

What is interesting is the many posts on TV with regards to Thai immigration laws and how expats are being treated "unfair" and if only farangs were able to buy land and yada yada yada.

There are also a remarkable number of posts where the author suggests that their home country should apply some sort of distinction based on nationalities and adopt an "eye for en eye" policy towards citizens of countries that enforce a more stringent immigration policy.

This is utter childish rubbish, if you ask me. I can only assume that this view is only represented by an exceedingly small number of expats, and by no means represent a generic view.

The truth is, that those who believe Thailand are treating farangs as <deleted>, have none or very little knowledge of how Thais are being treated in their own home countries in Europe, where - with very few exceptions - arbitrary bullshit sets the standard for an inhumane and dangerous view on humans and their social life, something that sometimes inhibits people to move across borders even though families and their wellbeing are at stake.

The simple truth is that unless you are extradited out of Thailand you would be able to live there if you wanted to, where as a Thai wouldn't even be able to cross the border of most European countries unless someone was prepared to sponsor the visit.

The truth is that Thailand is one of the most accessible countries there is in terms of immigration. Contrary, if a Thai child and mother had the option of reporting to the authorities every 90 days, if that meant they could stay in the country where they have lived for many years, I'm pretty confident they would gladly accept that option. But the average expat cries like a little girl because they have to do exactly this.

Most expats should be extremely happy that Thailand doesn't start treating farangs the same way Thais are being treated abroad.

After reading this post it is very clear you have no idea what youre talking about on how Thais are treated in western countrys .

[Forethat]

What is interesting is the many posts on TV with regards to Thai immigration laws and how expats are being treated "unfair" and if only farangs were able to buy land and yada yada yada.

There are also a remarkable number of posts where the author suggests that their home country should apply some sort of distinction based on nationalities and adopt an "eye for en eye" policy towards citizens of countries that enforce a more stringent immigration policy.

This is utter childish rubbish, if you ask me. I can only assume that this view is only represented by an exceedingly small number of expats, and by no means represent a generic view.

The truth is, that those who believe Thailand are treating farangs as <deleted>, have none or very little knowledge of how Thais are being treated in their own home countries in Europe, where - with very few exceptions - arbitrary bullshit sets the standard for an inhumane and dangerous view on humans and their social life, something that sometimes inhibits people to move across borders even though families and their wellbeing are at stake.

The simple truth is that unless you are extradited out of Thailand you would be able to live there if you wanted to, where as a Thai wouldn't even be able to cross the border of most European countries unless someone was prepared to sponsor the visit.

The truth is that Thailand is one of the most accessible countries there is in terms of immigration. Contrary, if a Thai child and mother had the option of reporting to the authorities every 90 days, if that meant they could stay in the country where they have lived for many years, I'm pretty confident they would gladly accept that option. But the average expat cries like a little girl because they have to do exactly this.

Most expats should be extremely happy that Thailand doesn't start treating farangs the same way Thais are being treated abroad.

After reading this post it is very clear you have no idea what youre talking about on how Thais are treated in western countrys .

Oh dear....here we go again....

[MAJIC]

Personally, I'd be rather stunned if it turned out that any of the countries where I am a citizen exposes Thais to wrongful actions simply because Thai immigration laws are less than favourable. I am actually quite confident there's no such thing as a discussion like "now they treat us bad, we're going to treat them the same way. That'll teach them!"

How easy is it for a Thai to get a visa to go live in the countries you hold citizenship of?

My guess is its a lot more difficult than for you to get a visa to live in Thailand and my certainty is that your government(s) are more concerned with trade between themselves and Thailand than they are the gripes of a few of their citizens who have chosen to live elsewhere.

I think this is a really interesting question. The answer is that in all three cases it would be considerably easier for myself to get a visa in Thailand.

I take your point,but there are extreme differences in getting a Visa in Thailand and other western countries, in general in the west once your wife/gf has a visa in the west, immigration,they tend to leave them alone,unless there are certain over riding circumstances.

In Thailand you are never left alone for very long,before you have to report in.

And the restrictions put on you,suggests you are definately not welcome and are unecessary too, ie you can't spend your own money and buy what you want in your own name,Thailand always have their hands in your pockets,think about the restrictions,and the way you are messed around with one clause after another,and not even the same as the last check in,or Visa application and you will see what I mean. And then ask yourself : how many Farangs who have lost everything,would have done so had not the Thai Government prevented them from buying what they wanted in their own name,in the first place???

[wooloomooloo]

It was and continues to be an expensive exercise bringing my wife to the UK. My wife qualifies to apply for citizenship and subsequent passport within, and finally, the next few weeks.

As MAJIC so eloquently states, there are distinct benefits. My wife has never paid for contraception and regularly receives follow up appointments checking blood pressure and general wellbeing prior to reissue of prescriptions. She can visit the doctor anytime she sees fit, for any condition, and rightly so. She pays tax and NI and never applied or received any physical financial benefit from the Government.

My wife works hard and saves her money. I don't touch her money and this allows her to save. It's the right thing to do.

The UK offers far more reward if one is willing to apply oneself.

[wooloomooloo]

...but there are extreme differences in getting a Visa in Thailand and other western countries, in general in the west once your wife/gf has a visa in the west, immigration,they tend to leave them alone,unless there are certain over riding circumstances.

This is where I should take exception, MAJIC, sorry. The thread isn't about comparisons to ease of access to LOS/UK visas. There is no ease of access to my knowledge to either LOS or UK.

We can prevaricate all day, but, it is what it is.

I've never felt the need to consider the journey in the opposite direction as seems irrelevant and can't be wasting time on such thoughts.

[MAJIC]

What is interesting is the many posts on TV with regards to Thai immigration laws and how expats are being treated "unfair" and if only farangs were able to buy land and yada yada yada.

There are also a remarkable number of posts where the author suggests that their home country should apply some sort of distinction based on nationalities and adopt an "eye for en eye" policy towards citizens of countries that enforce a more stringent immigration policy.

This is utter childish rubbish, if you ask me. I can only assume that this view is only represented by an exceedingly small number of expats, and by no means represent a generic view.

The truth is, that those who believe Thailand are treating farangs as <deleted>, have none or very little knowledge of how Thais are being treated in their own home countries in Europe, where - with very few exceptions - arbitrary bullshit sets the standard for an inhumane and dangerous view on humans and their social life, something that sometimes inhibits people to move across borders even though families and their wellbeing are at stake.

The simple truth is that unless you are extradited out of Thailand you would be able to live there if you wanted to, where as a Thai wouldn't even be able to cross the border of most European countries unless someone was prepared to sponsor the visit.

The truth is that Thailand is one of the most accessible countries there is in terms of immigration. Contrary, if a Thai child and mother had the option of reporting to the authorities every 90 days, if that meant they could stay in the country where they have lived for many years, I'm pretty confident they would gladly accept that option. But the average expat cries like a little girl because they have to do exactly this.

Most expats should be extremely happy that Thailand doesn't start treating farangs the same way Thais are being treated abroad.

"The truth is, that those who believe Thailand are treating farangs as <deleted>, have none or very little knowledge of how Thais are being treated in their own home countries in Europe, where - with very few exceptions - arbitrary bullshit sets the standard for an inhumane and dangerous view on humans and their social life, something that sometimes inhibits people to move across borders even though families and their wellbeing are at .......

Replying to Immigration Laws - Are Thais Subject To Retaliation In Other countries?

Considering you made the Topic as above,haven't you switched the Goal Posts somewhat???

See my Post No 15,for my answer to your OP.

Edited October 18, 2013 by MAJIC

[David48]

I think you will discover that Forethat is more then tradition perception allows ...

[Forethat]

No certainly not.

There is no comparison to suggest otherwise.

Why?

Thais can come into the UK on a Settlement Visa. (roughly 33 months)

They do not have to check in every 90 days,either to the Home Office, UKBA, or the UK Police.

The same applies for their next Visa,which is ILR (Indefinate Leave to Remain)

And allows for applying for Citizenship within 5 years,of having arrived (previously 3+years,my wife obtained Citizenship in 3 years and 3 month,which has now changed to 5 years at the end of this month Oct 2013)

They can start work in the UK from day one. (without a work permit) and has many months to aquire, a free of charge NI no. (National Insurance Number )

They can buy Land or property in their own name.

They can buy a vehicle in their own name.Car or Motorcycle!

They can use a Thai Driving Licence for one year on arrival (before needing a UK Provisional Licence).

During the time they are subject to Immigration control,they are only obliged to contact the UKBA/Home office to notify a change of address,and/or a breakdown of the relationship, or a contravention of the Visa conditions,which initially the Sponsor is responsible for,any notifications.

They can also get free Health care under the NHS on a Settlement Visa +.Their own GP and any Surgery or other treatment,requiring Out patient or In Patient treatment,again free of charge, the only payment they have to pay is £7.80 for Prescriptions,the same as everyone else in the UK,who are non exempt of charges.

My Information is that there are 35,000 Thai Permanent Residents in the UK,according to 2012 figures!

Far from subject to any Retaliation in this Country,I am pleased to say Thai people in the UK are not discriminated against,our laws would not tolerate it!

Actually, I doubt that any Thai would be able to acquire a Settlement visa in UK other than Thais who have previously lived or studied in UK, or if he-she fits under one of the working categories.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/settlement/

In order to buy land or drive a vehicle in UK they must first get into the country, which in most cases is very difficult.

Regardless of visa, in order to acquire one they will have to demonstrate a knowledge of language and life in the UK. Something that would have ruled out most farangs in he reverse situation.

So no, I'm sorry, Thais cannot "come into the UK on a Settlement Visa" other than in very minor cases, and it certainly doesn't apply to most Thais who often struggle to even get permission to enter the country on a tourist basis.

[Beetlejuice]

I do not consider the Thai immigration laws as being unreasonable, considering that Westerners are able to literally just walk in and out of the country at anytime with virtually no questions asked.

All they need to do is be able to qualify to stay under the Immigration laws of Thailand. If they can do that, then there is no problem, if they can`t, then why come here to whine and moan about it?

[meatboy]

It was and continues to be an expensive exercise bringing my wife to the UK. My wife qualifies to apply for citizenship and subsequent passport within, and finally, the next few weeks.

As MAJIC so eloquently states, there are distinct benefits. My wife has never paid for contraception and regularly receives follow up appointments checking blood pressure and general wellbeing prior to reissue of prescriptions. She can visit the doctor anytime she sees fit, for any condition, and rightly so. She pays tax and NI and never applied or received any physical financial benefit from the Government.

My wife works hard and saves her money. I don't touch her money and this allows her to save. It's the right thing to do.

The UK offers far more reward if one is willing to apply oneself.

so you know my wife then,she spent 20yrs.happy yrs.there and if it wasnt for me needing to live in a warm climate,

which helps me a great deal,v.w.f.and athritus and not being able to use my hands was the only reason why i moved to los.

[Berkshire]

Well I admit to wanting to lobby my congress woman to introduce a bill hat would make all Thais in my county;

1) not be able to hold land

2) not be able to hold a majority share in their own business.

3) to be subject to having to leave the country ever 90 days, no matter how long the validity of a visa.

4) to accept outrageous racism and not object to being called "chink" or "slope" ( to their face, too!! )

5) to consistently get the low end of the internet spectrum.

6) to run around doing endless paper chases to get anything done, at all.

7) to have no rights of demonstration whatsoever.

8) to pay off officials to procure documents that should be free

Feel free to add

feel free to add

You've managed to mix in some truth with some complete hogwash BS. But I don't doubt that you personally feel this way. I would never want to live in a country that I felt treated me this horribly. Why would you?

[transam]

Thai ladies have made a rod for their own backs over the years for finding any route possible to get into farangland and disappear from that route in short order. Thats why the visa stuff with Thais. Closing up loop holes. But once accepted the world can be their oyster.

Very different for us isn't it.

The biggy with a farang in LOS is you/we are all NON immigrants, not accept . All of you, except the few that have jumped through hurdles to be accepted.

If my wife died tomorrow I would be chucked out and her kid sent off somewhere. We all have to stand at attention every 90 days in front of folk who seem to like their control over you.

[kikoman]

In my experience, my wife that has "No" desire to live in the west, was denied a visa to visit my family for 30 days.

On the other hand Thailand has allowed me easy access on arrival of a visa to enter the Country, and allowed me free access of movement around the country and the ability to cross its borders at will to get visa extensions that allowed me to remain in the country for 4 years prior to applying for a retirement visa.

I check on the land ownership laws that did not allow for non-Thai's to own land in Thailand, as my retirement plans where changed because Mexico relaxed its laws by allowing American's to purchase land in the country, that had the immediate affect of raising the cost of living in my old home town, where it was not economically possible for me to live there any more.

Thailand is a developing country, with an abundant work force, the government of the country, did not need any more unemployed immigrants to move into the country, I can only comment on the U.S. situation as that is the only experience I personally can comment on. As US residents will not take lower paying jobs or do work in certain occupation's because of the social stigma associated with that type of employment. As a result the US has many lower level jobs they need to import foreign labor to fulfill, as a result the U.S. allows immigrants to work in the country.

As has been in the news over the last 10 years, is the U.S. intolerance of immigrants, especially from Mexico and have past many laws aimed at immigrant population and is also a platform the Republican party ran on in the national Presendential election that was soundly defeated in the last two national vote.

There is more to the story as Thai expats look at their home countries through "Rose colored glasses" that can do no wrong yet the chose to leave their home country to live and complain about Thailand, Why? may be is their access to cheap sex from young women!

Cheers:

[Kudel]

Op has it ever occured to you as to why some european embassys are becoming tight on granting visas?

There has been and still is a big problem with human trafficking of Asian woman to Europe to work in so called massage parlours.

Like i said in another topic look it up on the net,After being married to a Thai woman for ten years and having contact with our local Thai community i can not count anymore how many of these parlours have been raided by police here.some of these woman where married and doing this out of free will many of them where lured here by there so called boyfriends on tourist visas .

Visa laws are becoming more difficult because they want to protect woman from this kind of crap,but people wanting to settle here with good intentions are having trouble obtaining visas because of people with less good intentions.