Holding an alien passport illegal, how do I prove it?

[Maramook]

How do I prove that holding a passport of a foreigner as a deposit is illegal for thai business, in particular motorbike rentals? Any official documents online?

[Crossy]

Your passport itself should contain wording that it is the property of your government and should only be surrendered to a duly appointed officer.

[Hedghog]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

[HeijoshinCool]

Your question was answered any number of ways on your other thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/681051-passport-as-a-deposit-for-a-motorcycle/

But since you're asking again, listen up:

You, or any other "farang" are not going to prove anything to any Thai who rents motorbikes for a living.

Fighting to prove you are right, here in LOS, is as effective as banging your head against reinforced concrete, to stop a migraine.

[Maramook]

There is no answer in that topic but advice not to leave my passport. I've already heard it. I am asking the question, I'm not asking advice what to do.

[Crossy]

I doubt you will find a Thai law stating that it is illegal for a Thai to take a foreign passport as deposit.

You have already been pointed at a law that makes it illegal for you to give your government's passport as a deposit.

[cloy cogger]

you may or may not be able to prove it to them but they will be able to prove that they are not going to rent you the motorbike. walk, its less stressful by far.

[manarak]

I doubt it is illegal to hold a foreign passport.

I just think it is illegal to not give it to it's owner when asked.

[ggold]

Even if there were proof of what you are asking! you would be laughed at for even mentioning it to a Thai motorbike rental owner! Like he is going to turn around and say, you can rent his bike after that?

Just don't give your passport to anyone who asks, better walk or take a tuk tuk. Might even save your life!

[Travel2003]

But isn't it illegal NOT to have the passport (or proper copy) available when we are here?

[cornishcarlos]

Why do you need to prove it ???

Just go rent your bike elsewhere, or has someone already got your passport

[pokerspiv]

Call your consulate and tell them. They can take it back by force if necessary.

[NancyL]

I seriously doubt the consulate/embassy is going to send anyone to a motorbike shop to take it back by force -- instead they'll tell you to file a police report -- a Thai police report.

That's exactly what happened to someone I know who went on overstay because a motorcycle rental shop was holding his passport. That's what his embassy told him to do.

When he finally worked up the courage to turn himself into to local immigration office, they sent an officer around to the motorcycle shop where the passport was promptly turned over -- to Immigration. No discussion about the alleged damages to the motorbike the guy had returned (a long time before). The hapless guy should have gone to Immigration months before, rather than letting himself get on major, major overstay.

Edited November 13, 2013 by NancyL

[CharlieH]

If someone or anyone refuses to return your passport you can always report it stolen and get another one

For safety sake its always wise to keep a digital copy of it too for visa details etc..

Its always an option.

[Mario2008]

If someone or anyone refuses to return your passport you can always report it stolen and get another one

For safety sake its always wise to keep a digital copy of it too for visa details etc..

Its always an option.

That would be making a false statement, with all consequences.

Best is to go to the (tourist) police and/or inform your embassy if that has no results.

[CharlieH]

If someone or anyone refuses to return your passport you can always report it stolen and get another one

For safety sake its always wise to keep a digital copy of it too for visa details etc..

Its always an option.

That would be making a false statement, with all consequences.

Best is to go to the (tourist) police and/or inform your embassy if that has no results.

How is it a false statement ?

, if someone is holding your property without your permission and refuses to return it, it is then theft and thereby , stolen

Reporting it Lost , now that would be a false statement.

Edited November 13, 2013 by CharlieH

[Travel2003]

I dont get this.

There must be 1000s of posts on ThaiVisa, where members talk about the fact we must ALWAYS keep the passport available.

How can we then give it to someone temporarily if this is the law?

[aussieinthailand]

But isn't it illegal NOT to have the passport (or proper copy) available when we are here?

Yes a foreigner must always carry a passport with them, just a photo copy will do, just as a thai person gives their ID card.

[HeijoshinCool]

If someone or anyone refuses to return your passport you can always report it stolen and get another one

For safety sake its always wise to keep a digital copy of it too for visa details etc..

Its always an option.

That would be making a false statement, with all consequences.

Best is to go to the (tourist) police and/or inform your embassy if that has no results.

How is it a false statement ?

, if someone is holding your property without your permission and refuses to return it, it is then theft and thereby , stolen

Reporting it Lost , now that would be a false statement.

A Thai citizen who holds it against a rental has zero legal right to the passport. Not even if Thai law said he did, short of a treaty agreement. Not even if you intentionally trashed the bike.

Refusing to return the passport upon demand would be theft.

But then, don't give it in the first place. I have twice refused, politely, to hand mine to the police. Both times they left. It's only for immigration.

[NoshowJones]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

[cornishcarlos]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

But hotels give it back after they take a copy.. They don't hold it ransom if you use too much toilet paper !!!

[NoshowJones]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

But hotels give it back after they take a copy.. They don't hold it ransom if you use too much toilet paper !!!

So it's OK to hand your passport to anyone as long as they hand it back after a short time, what ever it is they are doing with it.

[cornishcarlos]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

But hotels give it back after they take a copy.. They don't hold it ransom if you use too much toilet paper !!!

So it's OK to hand your passport to anyone as long as they hand it back after a short time, what ever it is they are doing with it.

Well just give them a copy then... Geez, some people

[oneday]

Your question was answered any number of ways on your other thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/681051-passport-as-a-deposit-for-a-motorcycle/

But since you're asking again, listen up:

You, or any other "farang" are not going to prove anything to any Thai who rents motorbikes for a living.

Fighting to prove you are right, here in LOS, is as effective as banging your head against reinforced concrete, to stop a migraine.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. This is dead-on, 100% correct. You only have two options; find another bike rental place that does not insist on a real passport or give the outrageous deposit they will ask for instead of the passport. I paid a 10,000 baht deposit to not turn my passport over to a shop in Chiang Mai. Many bike rental places in Chiang Mai ask for your passport. I'd never hand a passport over, ever to anyone except the proper authorities.

Pretty much all bike rental places in Pattaya do not ask for a passport. For them a copy is good enough.

Anyone running a rental business in Thailand can ask for anything they want as a deposit, legal or not. They can ask for your first born. It's up to them to accept less or up to you not to give in and go elsewhere. Police or the courts could care less and would never get involved irregardless of what the law says. TIT

Edited November 13, 2013 by oneday

[SDM0712]

I'm afraid that unless you go to Avis or similar very few companies (and I use that term in its loosest sense) will let you hire anything. However I used to say I needed the passport to change travellers cheques every day and offered then a 100 USD deposit. I always got my full deposit back and always kept my passport.

Stephen

[duanebigsby]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

I use my Thai DL all the time at hotels. When I rented a motorcycle for 5 weeks I left a 3k baht cash deposit and photocopy of passport. I'd rather lose 3k than a passport any day. Never let anyone keep your passport for any reason and you'll never have to report it's loss unless it was your own fault.

[johnlandy]

Just don't hand the passport to anyone that asks for it.

It is for official use only.

Police,immigration,etc.

Not motorcycle rental operators and suchlike.

For those a copy should suffice.

Are hotels official? I tried to use my Thai driving license to book in to a hotel, and it was refused. They insisted on my passport.

But hotels give it back after they take a copy.. They don't hold it ransom if you use too much toilet paper !!!

So it's OK to hand your passport to anyone as long as they hand it back after a short time, what ever it is they are doing with it.

As long as it is never out of your sight.....

[Bangkok45]

I am just amazed as how stupid a person can be! If you already knew that it is illegal to hand over your passport then why would you want to rent a bike from the said operator who intentionally does something deemed illegal? And wanting to prove you are right? In Thailand, and being a 'farang'? If you can ride a bike sitting backwards, maybe, they'll give you a bike! This chap took idiocy to a new level!

[Ulic]

Hundreds of rental places most know they cannot hold your passport. Any that insist should be

viewed suspiciously. Go to the next rental place.

[NoshowJones]

Try and hand your passport to a hotel or anywhere else, and it is always going to be out of your sight even if only for a few seconds.