Briton victim of armed street robbery in South Pattaya

[Rimmer]

One flame and a quoted reply removed

[Yahooka]

Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is an unusual choice of street for your average tourist to be walking down at 4:30am. I don't think there are any bars on that street. There are some apartments though. Maybe he was trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps.

There are a few bars on Soi 15,hundreds of apartments and condos(and more to come) and a few hotels.Hardly a dark,dodgy back alley for drug deals.

[chrisinth]

Yes I thought I would just go out for a quite drink-----that's why I only had 10,000 baht left when they set upon me.....................

Not 8,700.......or 6,900............a nice round 10,000

Which he may have, and been seen taking it from an ATM, marking him as a target.

On the other hand, maybe not.....................

Because it wasn't written doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

The tourist courts were suppose to make the Streets safer for foreigners. Obviously the court concept isn't working and is a laughing stock.

Pattaya is still safe compared e.g. with Ho Chi Minh City. There police totally lost grip on scooters with thieves robbing people. But walking around with jewelry is not smart at all.

I never have been able to understand why people continue to diminish the growing crime problem here by comparing this place to Ho Chi Minh city or any other place. Yes, it could be worse..........we could be walking around at night in a city in Syria or maybe Iraq. The real issue is this place has become rather dangerous, especially when compared to what it was like 10-20 years ago (so much nicer then; no stress; no worry about street crime).

[MaxYakov]

One more day in Pattaya: One german drugged and robbed, one brit robbed on the street. It's time to boycott Thailand an go to saver places. As will do it the Russians.

Try the Phillipines - you'll never go anywhere else.

Hopefully, it would not be because you did not survive to "go anywhere else".

An interesting and well-written article about Crime against foreigners in the Philippines. A lot of it probably applies to Thailand as well.

Edited November 26, 2013 by MaxYakov

[crumpled]

What is he doing at his age walking home at 4 ish in the morning he needs to get on a taxi bike. Silly old bugga.

With his alleged 10,000 Baht, he could certainly afford it.

Walking about at that time of the morning after a night out does seem foolish.

[KittenKong]

The real issue is this place has become rather dangerous, especially when compared to what it was like 10-20 years ago (so much nicer then; no stress; no worry about street crime).

Absolutely true. There was hardly any street violence back then (though I remember that people did get robbed/murdered in their rooms by "casual acquaintances", but not very often). I certainly would not have thought twice about walking down any alley here at any time of the day or night 20 years ago.

But are there many tourist destinations in the world where street crime hasn't increased in the last 10 years? Probably only places where the street crime used to be completely out of control and where they have managed to reduce it a bit.

[LeCharivari]

Despite being variously described here as "drunk" and "an idiot" and even "trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps" by those who seem to like to blame the victim, all the guy was doing was going back to his hotel in the early hours carrying a not-excessive amount of spending money, an average phone and wearing an inexpensive gold ring (maybe a widower with an old wedding ring).

I dont blame the guy at all; I just think he's stupid to have lost so much. A minimum of forethought would have saved him at least 40,000B.

And if the money, phone and gold ring are all "average" or "inexpensive" then presumably it isn't even worth his while complaining about the loss. Yet apparently he thinks it is, so I suppose that means that he values them more than some posters on here do.

Personally when I go out walking late at night I only carry what I can afford to lose and if I do lose it I wont care. It's really very simple.

"And if the money, phone and gold ring are all "average" or "inexpensive" then presumably it isn't even worth his while complaining about the loss. Yet apparently he thinks it is, so I suppose that means that he values them more than some posters on here do."

I don't follow your logic. Just because he reported the incident doesn't make his cash, ring or phone any more or any less valuable to him or anyone else. He was robbed at knife point - most people I know would consider that "worth while complaining about" regardless of what was taken.

If you would only think it "worth ... while complaining about the loss" if it was above a certain amount and if it was any less you "won't care" and wouldn't report being held up and robbed at knife point by two men when walking home that's a rather sad reflection of what you seem to find acceptable / "won't care" about in Pattaya.

[LeCharivari]

The real issue is this place has become rather dangerous, especially when compared to what it was like 10-20 years ago (so much nicer then; no stress; no worry about street crime).

Absolutely true. There was hardly any street violence back then (though I remember that people did get robbed/murdered in their rooms by "casual acquaintances", but not very often). I certainly would not have thought twice about walking down any alley here at any time of the day or night 20 years ago.

But are there many tourist destinations in the world where street crime hasn't increased in the last 10 years? Probably only places where the street crime used to be completely out of control and where they have managed to reduce it a bit.

"But are there many tourist destinations in the world where street crime hasn't increased in the last 10 years? Probably only places where the street crime used to be completely out of control and where they have managed to reduce it a bit."

Probably comparatively few, but the difference is that most of those "tourist destinations" are not only honest about the level of street crime but they try to do something constructive about it - not just have a cosmetic "crackdown" that lasts for a month before announcing "zero crime". Its difficult to police anywhere that is primarily a "night-life destination" when most of the police go home at 6pm, and Pattaya is just plastering over the cracks.

http://travel.yahoo.com/blogs/compass/where-tourist-crime-happens-most-171502067.html

[David48]

Just between you and me ... isn't Bt 10,000 crisp Bills a bit much to be walking around with in the wee hours?

Sure @ 2pm doing some business ... but @ 4.30am doesn't show much Street Smarts.

Sir,Perhaps the happy gent decided to have a beer at 11pm,id does happen in Pattaya.

Hi there Bernard ... welcome back to the Forum.

You have been missed.

[Daewoo]

It could have been worse, 'wandering around' at ~4am.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/womans-body-found-in-a-brisbane-park-20131124-2y3i0.html

Wrong place, wrong time, and her parents are flying in to collect her body. Her crime ? She had to start early AM and found herself in a park at 4am - six weeks in the city and no real understandng of the dangers (her co-workers obviously didnt bother to warn her). Not the Brisbane I spent >20 years living and working in, sadly.

I'd say our Brit friend got off lightly - it could have been a whole lot worse than a ring, a phone and 10K baht.

The Police caught the guy in the article above already, and Australian justice will be done.

WRT the PatayaOne story and subsequent posts, which focus on blaming the victim.

The amount of money/jewelery/phone you carry only increases the outcome of the mugging, not the risk.

It is unlikely the motorsai guys stopped because they saw the bulge in his pocket and thought he must be carrying 10,000, but would otherwise have kept riding.

Maybe the risk of walking 2 minutes down the Soi was acceptable to him. I tend to walk if I don't know how much/hard it will be to get a motorsai/tuktuk/Songtao to take me to the hotel.

I just want to meet this guy to find out how he managed to end a night at 4:40am with 10K in his pocket... regardless of how much I leave the hotel with, I never return with more than an assortment of crumpled minor notes in each and every pocket... and sometimes with an IOU to return and pay the balance the next morning ...

[KittenKong]

If you would only think it "worth ... while complaining about the loss" if it was above a certain amount and if it was any less you "won't care" and wouldn't report being held up and robbed at knife point by two men when walking home that's a rather sad reflection of what you seem to find acceptable / "won't care" about in Pattaya.

I didn't say that I wouldn't care about the assault, or that I wouldn't care/bother about reporting it.

I said that I wouldn't care about the loss. And I wouldn't because when strolling around at night I only carry items and cash of minimal value. I do the same everywhere in the world. This seems like the most basic bit of common sense to me.

The fact that this thread is generating such interest presumably means that many do think that 40,000B worth of money, phones and gold is indeed something that one might be concerned about losing. I would. But I'm sure that no one on here (including me) would worry much about someone losing a 400B phone and no gold, even if they are still concerned about the knife and the assault as I am.

And of course the main reason that these assaults happen is because the crooks know full well that many farang idiots do wander around at night carrying items of absurdly high value for no reason. If everyone carried just the bare minimum the number of robberies would drop dramatically as the potential gain would not be there.

[brewsterbudgen]

The tourist courts were suppose to make the Streets safer for foreigners. Obviously the court concept isn't working and is a laughing stock.

Pattaya is still safe compared e.g. with Ho Chi Minh City. There police totally lost grip on scooters with thieves robbing people. But walking around with jewelry is not smart at all.

I never have been able to understand why people continue to diminish the growing crime problem here by comparing this place to Ho Chi Minh city or any other place. Yes, it could be worse..........we could be walking around at night in a city in Syria or maybe Iraq. The real issue is this place has become rather dangerous, especially when compared to what it was like 10-20 years ago (so much nicer then; no stress; no worry about street crime).

And this is surprising because????

[Rimmer]

General flame removed

[Briggsy]

Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is an unusual choice of street for your average tourist to be walking down at 4:30am. I don't think there are any bars on that street. There are some apartments though. Maybe he was trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps.

There are a few bars on Soi 15,hundreds of apartments and condos(and more to come) and a few hotels.Hardly a dark,dodgy back alley for drug deals.

We are talking about different Sois 15, chap. Do your homework properly, specify which Soi 15 you are on about and come back to me.

[Yahooka]

Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is an unusual choice of street for your average tourist to be walking down at 4:30am. I don't think there are any bars on that street. There are some apartments though. Maybe he was trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps.

There are a few bars on Soi 15,hundreds of apartments and condos(and more to come) and a few hotels.Hardly a dark,dodgy back alley for drug deals.

We are talking about different Sois 15, chap. Do your homework properly, specify which Soi 15 you are on about and come back to me.

"Soi 15 off Soi Baukao" was the description in the news.Where Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) came in to this story please tell me.

No need to get the old knickers in a twist now is it............chap !!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Yahooka

[LeCharivari]

(edited)

And of course the main reason that these assaults happen is because the crooks know full well that many farang idiots do wander around at night carrying items of absurdly high value for no reason. If everyone carried just the bare minimum the number of robberies would drop dramatically as the potential gain would not be there.

"of course" ?

Your assumption is not borne out by the police view in other "tourist destinations" (London, Paris, etc) where the police tend to keep rather more detailed and open records. According to those police forces minimising any valubles you carry may minimise your financial loss but it can lead not only to more crime (less profit per crime means more crimes required for the same "gain") but it can also lead to considerably more violence as criminals become more desperate and refuse to believe that their victims have so little money and they demand more (which the victims may not have to hand).

Its easy to blame the "farang idiots" (or even the "Thai idiots" who are far more often the unreported victims) but the reality is that the only way to reduce the crime level is for the police to change their methods, and that hasn't happened here.

[Briggsy]

Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is an unusual choice of street for your average tourist to be walking down at 4:30am. I don't think there are any bars on that street. There are some apartments though. Maybe he was trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps.

There are a few bars on Soi 15,hundreds of apartments and condos(and more to come) and a few hotels.Hardly a dark,dodgy back alley for drug deals.

We are talking about different Sois 15, chap. Do your homework properly, specify which Soi 15 you are on about and come back to me.

"Soi 15 off Soi Baukao" was the description in the news.Where Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) came in to this story please tell me.

No need to get the old knickers in a twist now is it............chap !!

Where do you think the Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is?? I see you have resorted to insults, a regular forum ploy which means, "I am wrong but am too arrogant to admit it."

[KittenKong]

Your assumption is not borne out by the police view in other "tourist destinations" (London, Paris, etc) where the police tend to keep rather more detailed and open records. According to those police forces minimising any valubles you carry may minimise your financial loss but it can lead not only to more crime (less profit per crime means more crimes required for the same "gain") but it can also lead to considerably more violence as criminals become more desperate and refuse to believe that their victims have so little money and they demand more (which the victims may not have to hand).

Which is why I specifically said "if everyone". If just a few people carry less valuables then the global effect wont be great, and the effect in individual cases may even be to worsen them as you say. Even so as a matter of principle I prefer to carry less.

As for the UK police, they seem to be only interested in staying as far as possible away from the streets and any violence or crime that may be happening, and spending their time preparing reports and investigating at great expense who some decrepit TV personalities may have goosed 40 years ago, or ensuring that unconscious binge drinkers get a comfy heated room for the night. I dont consider this to be a sensible use of their resources.

Its easy to blame the "farang idiots" (or even the "Thai idiots" who are far more often the unreported victims) but the reality is that the only way to reduce the crime level is for the police to change their methods, and that hasn't happened here.

I disagree about that also. Apart from removing the glaring temptations, the other way to reduce street violence and crime is to deter people from doing it in the first place. Neither the UK nor Thailand seem to offer anything that I would call a real deterrent for street crime, though Thailand does have some suitably nasty places in which to keep other types of offender.

Edited November 28, 2013 by KittenKong

[brewsterbudgen]

Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) is an unusual choice of street for your average tourist to be walking down at 4:30am. I don't think there are any bars on that street. There are some apartments though. Maybe he was trying to score something, crystal meth, perhaps.

There are a few bars on Soi 15,hundreds of apartments and condos(and more to come) and a few hotels.Hardly a dark,dodgy back alley for drug deals.

We are talking about different Sois 15, chap. Do your homework properly, specify which Soi 15 you are on about and come back to me.

"Soi 15 off Soi Baukao" was the description in the news.Where Soi 15 (Chalermprakiat) came in to this story please tell me.

No need to get the old knickers in a twist now is it............chap !!

Soi 15 is pretty lively these days, with a number of late night karaoke and other bars, as well as all the condos and hotels mentioned by Yahooka. It's hardly a quiet street. That said, I suspect the mugging occurred in the small, dark soi connecting soi 15 with soi Diana. Not a place I would walk anytime after dark.

[Briggsy]

There are 2 Soi 15's off Bua Khao. One connects to Sai 2 and the other connects to Sai 3. The article is ambiguous as to the location of the claimed mugging.

Any arrests yet?