Democracy or mob rule?: Thai editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Democracy or mob rule?
The Nation

Suthep Thaugsuban's goal of a "people's assembly" under the monarchy undermines our democratic foundations

BANGKOK: -- A bad democracy, according to Aristotle, is a democracy true to its name, where the demos (people) exercise the kratos (power). A good democracy, the Greek philosopher said, comes as close as possible to the ideal regime of the politeia (politics), and contrives to distance the people.

In other words, when people exercise power without a clear political platform, the result tends to be chaos and anarchy. Thus any political community needs a clear platform through which "people power" is harnessed and ordered.

The protest led by seasoned politician Suthep Thaugsuban has once again exercised "people power" in street battles. Until he has a clear platform for what he calls "perfect democracy", this country will remain in turmoil.

Protest is a powerful and effective way for people to express their will in a democratic system, but it quickly becomes dangerous when used as an instrument to change

an elected government.

It is a sign of a healthy democracy to see people on the streets expressing their demands, but there is no point in them seizing and occupying state buildings and government offices. Such a move might partially paralyse the Yingluck administration, but it could also paralyse the country's wider operations too.

Under the prevailing democratic norm, Thailand has clear rules governing a change in leaders. The government has the power to dissolve Parliament and call a new election. Then, any opposition with a strong enough policy platform has the chance of winning and forming a new government. Or the courts can rule a government guilty of wrongdoing and order it to step down, paving the way for a fresh election.

In contrast, Suthep's goal - a "people's assembly" that will ensure "perfect democracy" under the monarchy - seems undemocratic.

Though the term itself might sound democratic, it is in fact problematic. Suthep has suggested that the people's assembly be selected by a committee. But who would have the power to appoint its members - and by what authority?

The protesters, even if they numbered in the millions, could never be an authentic source of authority, never mind the sovereign power in the nation. The fact is that no single group of protesters could ever accurately represent the will of our 65-million-strong population. There might be, let's say, a few million who agree with Suthep's campaign, but what about the rest? How would a "people's assembly" treat them? How would it accommodate their will and demands?

The democracy that this country understands and aspires to is premised on a universal agreement not only about its ends, but also about its means, meaning and values. In a good democracy, the means justify the ends, not the other way around.


-- The Nation 2013-12-03

[15Peter20]

Even The Nation is deserting Suthep....he must be feeling lonelier by the hour.

[JRSoul]

Perhaps Thailand's democratic foundations need to be dug out and replaced with something a little more solid. At the moment they only support a facade.

[jackrich]

I bet all the mia nois have ran away too. That's why he's becoming so out of control now.

[teatree]

A Tale of Two Protests: Ukraine & Thailand

Western hypocrisy on full display as it backs pro-EU protesters in Ukraine, condemn Thai protests against US-backed regime in Thailand.

http://altthainews.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-tale-of-two-protests-ukraine-thailand.html

[Curt1591]

" … when people exercise power without a clear political platform, the result tends to be chaos and anarchy. Thus any political community needs a clear platform through which "people power" is harnessed and ordered."

This has always been the problem with 'the opposition'.

Suthep can't even decide on a name for his new regime.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Curt1591

[binjalin]

yea people's council no doubt with him at the head

find him, arrest him, lock him up now THAT would be good for Thailand

[Yunla]

This writer misses some key points re; AG and the quote by Aristotle, the most important point being that AG was run by hereditary Master-Class, and worked by a Slave-Class. Women were not considered worthy of anything. In this quote he is further supporting the feudal Oligarchs who suppressed a large percentage of the population. Aristotle belonged to that Master-Class.

The OP writer needs to understand that only an masochist would want to live in AG, and it is not worthy of emulation as a societal model. What we seek to emulate is the AG system of open-debate, the duty to engage in honest Debate, in Athenian Democracy ; the compunction on all citizens not so much to "vote" but to travel to the place of Debate and to argue their case directly amongst their peers.

AG made Debate among common citizens into a social responsibility, and Thailand would be VERY wise to follow this example, as it is the total silence here and lack of open debate channels that has allowed these petty resentments to fester for decades and flare up routinely as violence. And for those feelings of injustice to be exploited by one despotic warlord after another. In a society where debate is cherished as the social duty of all citizens, this problem is virtually non-existent.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Yunla

[Tywais]

Off topic post removed.

[Mampara]

To understand something is to be liberated from it.

[jackrich]

" … when people exercise power without a clear political platform, the result tends to be chaos and anarchy. Thus any political community needs a clear platform through which "people power" is harnessed and ordered."

This has always been the problem with 'the opposition'.

Suthep can't even decide on a name for his new regime.

How about ...

Democratic People Power Party For Make Freedom Great Nation Of Thailand And Fix Corruption Forever Under Eternal Protecion Of Supreme Leader Suthep

Catchy, isn't it?

Edited December 3, 2013 by jackrich

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Sudden Outbreak of Common Sense at The Nation.

[apetley]

Sudden Outbreak of Common Sense at The Nation.

History says it's unlikely to last.

[harada]

.1% of the population illegally brings down a govt ? ? only in Thailand

[anon210]

.1% of the population illegally brings down a govt ? ? only in Thailand

With the army.

[sangsom69]

Been a while since I studied Aristotle but I'm sure his ideal state was aristocracy and not democracy as this seems to imply by translating 'Politeia' as politics when in his book 'politics' it tends to be used as a form of government - rule by the many, and therefore a good democracy would simply be a better form of the rule by the many than a bad form of the rule by the many. Sorta makes his premise a house built on sand.

He could have just said the Thai political system is so f*cked that you're gonna get governed by the Shinawatra clan or the likes of Suthep: A bit like being asked, 'would you like your turd polished or au natural?'

[Arkady]

Aristotle is known as a philosopher who believed that power should reside with an enlightened ruler, as set out in his "the Republic" with no role for an electorate of the people.

[thaidel48]

Until the Thai people desert the patronage system democracy will never take root here. Make laws with real teeth dish out some real jail time to rich hi-so powerful people to show the rest of the world you are committed to the rule of law and the rest of the world would take this country a bit more seriously.

[rfhendrix]

Suthep wants "the people" to rule Thailand. Suthep is The People.

[Carrerakiss]

Suthep has gone too far. Protesting peacefully against the amnesty bill was the democratic right of he and his supporters. And they won that fight, or at least that round of the fight.

But now he wants to bring down an elected government, make up his own method of forming a governing body and pretty much run things how HE wants them run. That's pretty ridiculous and makes HIM look ridiculous. Until he shows he has the support of more than 30 million Thais, why should his will prevail? And if he DOES have the support of more than 30 million Thais, why doesn't he wait and win the next election?

He's lost all sense of perception/proportion

[Neurath]

Aristotle is known as a philosopher who believed that power should reside with an enlightened ruler, as set out in his "the Republic" with no role for an electorate of the people.

That would be Plato. Wrong honcho.

[CIHUAHUA]

As I have said in other posts, some countries and cultures do not do well with Democracy.

" In a good democracy, the means justify the ends, not the other way around".

[pisico]

About Democracy or mob rule Khun Voranai of BP wrote a good piece he entitles: Suthep the false prophet.

This morning army chief said: "Soldiers will watch the situation from s distance and allow the political sector to solve their problems among themselves." He added: "The police would not definitely allow the protesters to intrude into Government House, Parliament or Metropolitan Police Bureau headquarters."

Fast forward a few minutes and the BP reports that now "protesters are welcome at the Metropolitan Police Headquarters."

Dysfunctional? That is the best way to describe Thailand if there is not a strongman in power telling the drones what to do and think.

Thai people as a whole as intellectually lazy. Patronage, loss of face, dismal knowledge of their history and a mindset anchored in traditions that are a perfect anachronism compound their inability to be proactive and rationally functional.

They are copiers, repeaters: that is all they know and told to do. There has never been any incentive to create independent thinkers in Thailand. Where are the public libraries built by this or all the previous administrations?

A young university graduate said to me recently trying to explain the reasons for this "revolt" (his word, not mine). "Thaksin wanted to divide Thailand. He wanted to build a canal down south so that ships could go through it on their way to Thailand and other points in Asia." How is that bad? I asked. He was irate, grabbed my arm and said: "what if I cut your arm from the elbow down: would you like it? That would be the same." I am a human being, not a tract of land, I replied. But he was adamant: "Thailand has never been divided or separated. That is bad!" I closed my argument by saying that would have brought revenue to the country as it is the case in Suez and Panama.

He blurted almost in anger: "Suez, Panama: what is that?" This chap is a Thai teacher.

Those who may dispute my comment (and possibly brand me as a Thai basher) I ask them to provide a list of Thais, recipients of a Nobel Prize in any discipline. A list of Thai inventors and what they invented to make of this a better world. A list of writers, artists and philosophers who have contributed to the enlightenment of people the world over with their work and influential thought beyond Thai borders.

By the way, territorial size doesn't matter when it comes to talent, inventiveness and creative intellects. Just think of Great Britain and the plethora of contributions to the whole of humankind. Great Britain is an island and Switzerland is a small landlocked country.

Thailand is.. TIT

[apetley]

Suthep wants "the people" to rule Thailand. Suthep is The People.

Exactly.

All people are equal but some are more equal than others.

[Curt1591]

...

He blurted almost in anger: "Suez, Panama: what is that?" This chap is a Thai teacher.

...

Sad, isn't it.

[MickGC]

" … when people exercise power without a clear political platform, the result tends to be chaos and anarchy. Thus any political community needs a clear platform through which "people power" is harnessed and ordered."

This has always been the problem with 'the opposition'.

Suthep can't even decide on a name for his new regime.

How about ...

Democratic People Power Party For Make Freedom Great Nation Of Thailand And Fix Corruption Forever Under Eternal Protecion Of Supreme Leader Suthep

Catchy, isn't it?

It is, but won't work. The font would be too small when printed on a size "s" T-shirt

[nahkit]

A Tale of Two Protests: Ukraine & Thailand

Western hypocrisy on full display as it backs pro-EU protesters in Ukraine, condemn Thai protests against US-backed regime in Thailand.

http://altthainews.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-tale-of-two-protests-ukraine-thailand.html

Hilarious, are you related to Dave Spart by any chance?

[ppmacready]

All the Thai Governments are corrupt, but-

The Elite right wing can not accept democracy as it erodes the power they have held for century's over the uneducated poor.

Its a shame whilst studying in the west they didn't learn from history that you can't hold a people down forever!

[Maybole]

About Democracy or mob rule Khun Voranai of BP wrote a good piece he entitles: Suthep the false prophet.

This morning army chief said: "Soldiers will watch the situation from s distance and allow the political sector to solve their problems among themselves." He added: "The police would not definitely allow the protesters to intrude into Government House, Parliament or Metropolitan Police Bureau headquarters."

Fast forward a few minutes and the BP reports that now "protesters are welcome at the Metropolitan Police Headquarters."

Dysfunctional? That is the best way to describe Thailand if there is not a strongman in power telling the drones what to do and think.

Thai people as a whole as intellectually lazy. Patronage, loss of face, dismal knowledge of their history and a mindset anchored in traditions that are a perfect anachronism compound their inability to be proactive and rationally functional.

They are copiers, repeaters: that is all they know and told to do. There has never been any incentive to create independent thinkers in Thailand. Where are the public libraries built by this or all the previous administrations?

A young university graduate said to me recently trying to explain the reasons for this "revolt" (his word, not mine). "Thaksin wanted to divide Thailand. He wanted to build a canal down south so that ships could go through it on their way to Thailand and other points in Asia." How is that bad? I asked. He was irate, grabbed my arm and said: "what if I cut your arm from the elbow down: would you like it? That would be the same." I am a human being, not a tract of land, I replied. But he was adamant: "Thailand has never been divided or separated. That is bad!" I closed my argument by saying that would have brought revenue to the country as it is the case in Suez and Panama.

He blurted almost in anger: "Suez, Panama: what is that?" This chap is a Thai teacher.

Those who may dispute my comment (and possibly brand me as a Thai basher) I ask them to provide a list of Thais, recipients of a Nobel Prize in any discipline. A list of Thai inventors and what they invented to make of this a better world. A list of writers, artists and philosophers who have contributed to the enlightenment of people the world over with their work and influential thought beyond Thai borders.

By the way, territorial size doesn't matter when it comes to talent, inventiveness and creative intellects. Just think of Great Britain and the plethora of contributions to the whole of humankind. Great Britain is an island and Switzerland is a small landlocked country.

Thailand is.. TIT

[Maybole]

Ref. Pisico' s account of encounter with uni graduate. "Thailand has never been divided" only 200 tears ago Thailand consisted of at least 4 separate Kingdoms.