UK Visa fee

[theoldgit]

In China the online fee is paid in CNY.

[NanLaew]

My MP was recently extremely helpful in obtaining confirmation that an expired A1 test certificate was acceptable for FLR applications; so I have today emailed him to ask if he can find out why applicants are being charged in USD for a service provided by the UK government with a fee set in Sterling by the UK Parliament.

I'll post his reply when received.

Not so helpful this time.

First reply was that Parliamentary protocol prevented him from answering and the person concerned should contact his own MP.

I then asked him if he could answer the general question about the UK government charging for it's services in USD and he simply replied that he had said all he was going to say on the matter.

He's a Tory, btw.

That's all a bit sad eh? Quoting Parliamentary protocol and then the 'my lips are sealed'... I hope you didn't vote for that tosser!

I have written to my MP who despite being SNP, may have a more informed opinion on this piss poor situation. I have taken the position of the aggrieved spouse of the first party to try and avoid pissing on someone's parliamentary protocol. However, I may be subject to some "this would never happen in an independent Scotland" rhetoric so I won't hold my breath.

[NanLaew]

In China the online fee is paid in CNY.

So the Yuan is already approved same same the rupee but the humble pound isn't. <deleted>? indeed!

That kinda shoots down the 'making a mint on visa fees' argument as I am fairly sure that the amount of UK visit visa applicants from India and China dwarfs the paltry numbers from LOS. Someone (like WorldPay) would be making millions on those applications if they could only be paid in $.

[TCA]

In China the online fee is paid in CNY.

So the Yuan is already approved same same the rupee but the humble pound isn't. <deleted>? indeed!

That kinda shoots down the 'making a mint on visa fees' argument as I am fairly sure that the amount of UK visit visa applicants from India and China dwarfs the paltry numbers from LOS. Someone (like WorldPay) would be making millions on those applications if they could only be paid in $.

I'm not sure the Chinese Yuan and Indian Rupee are "approved" in the sense UKVI are referring to them. It's surely not WorldPay collecting those currencies and it's done locally? If not and it is WorldPay, it would certainly be an absolute joke that GBP (or THB for that matter) wasn't included as a payment option. I'm guessing it's more the case that USD has been chosen as the one single approved currency for WorldPay transactions. It needn't have been but it has been.

WorldPay will be paid on a transaction basis and will deliver the currency they collect to UKVI. The foreign exchange bit happens when the customer uses a non-USD payment method (and their bank charges them for the privilege) and then if UKVI need to exchange the collected currencies to a currency of their own choosing. Like GBP perhaps........................

[Basil B]

I assume WP convert the USD to GBP, that the mark up above the interbank rate, unless you are paying in USD that's 2 conversions, and totally absurd if you are paying in GBP.

Welcome to rip off Britain

[TCA]

I assume WP convert the USD to GBP, that the mark up above the interbank rate, unless you are paying in USD that's 2 conversions, and totally absurd if you are paying in GBP.

Welcome to rip off Britain

If UKVI do convert their USD to GBP, then it makes no sense that they wouldn't charge in GBP to begin with to avoid the costs of doing this. I can't think they'd do this just because it's convenient for a perceived majority of dollar credit card applicants, so I assume they want to hold dollars and don't change it to GBP.

Unless as Basil B alludes to above: they load their conversion charges into the dollar price to begin with. None of it makes much sense.

Edited January 26, 2014 by TCA

[theoldgit]

It's surely not WorldPay collecting those currencies and it's done locally? If not and it is WorldPay, it would certainly be an absolute joke that GBP (or THB for that matter) wasn't included as a payment option. I'm guessing it's more the case that USD has been chosen as the one single approved currency for WorldPay transactions. It needn't have been but it has been.

The UKVI do indeed use World Pay to collect the application fees in China.

[TCA]

The UKVI do indeed use World Pay to collect the application fees in China.

Wow. This does beggar belief. I'd hope UKVI are not daft enough to have multiple WorldPay merchant accounts, but even if they did, this infers that Chinese Yuan and American Dollars (and maybe Indian Rupees) are "approved" currencies, whereas GBP isn't.

So in China and India you can pay in local currency, but not in Thailand. But you can't pay in GBP either, you can only pay in USD. Shambles of a policy.

[Basil B]

WorldPay can be anywhere in the world as it is done on the internet.

As I understand it when you pay using a card in a different currency to that of your card it is your card provider that does the conversion and profits on the transaction.

But as the currency is being transferred to the UK or Thailand neither of which use USD it will have to be converted again which is the stupid thing, also the amount in USD would have to be revised frequently to manage the fluctuation in the £/$ rate, but if it was in GBP than it would only need changing when the charges are revised.

As it seems which ever country you are applying from you need to pay by card, why not just do it in GBP and WorldPay pay the money direct to HM Treasury.

Another option because it probably would cost less to the UK would be also allow bank transfers.when you apply on line, when you get to the stage of paying they could provide a reference number to include with payment.

[TCA]

But as the currency is being transferred to the UK or Thailand neither of which use USD it will have to be converted again which is the stupid thing, also the amount in USD would have to be revised frequently to manage the fluctuation in the £/$ rate, but if it was in GBP than it would only need changing when the charges are revised.

The payee info Tony M posted for a recent application in Thailand was "UKBA, LONDON" so I'd say all the dollars collected are paid by WorldPay to the UK. I'm not assuming they'll convert to GBP though. I can only think that they charge in USD because they want USD. There's no way they're doing do it for the convenience of dollar credit card holders. Why would they? If there's one currency people would expect to pay in for a UK visa, it's GBP. So it has to be because they want dollars. Maybe they need dollars for a whole host of international purposes, in preference to sterling, and this is one way to get some? Until they tell us we'll never know.

[7by7]

Below is a copy of an email I sent on Friday to Mark Harper, the Immigration Minister:

Sir,

As you must be aware in many countries applicant's for a UK visa now have to apply and pay their visa fee online using a credit or debit card.

On the face of it, this appears to be a good move as it makes the process quicker and easier.

However, there is one aspect which is very worrying.

The fees are charged in US dollars, not in Sterling and the various embassies do not use the daily exchange rate, but their own consular rate which is usually disadvantageous to the person making the payment.

This means that when converted to Sterling and deducted from the sponsor's bank account the amount taken is above the published fees for UK visas.

For example, a friend of mine in Thailand was recently charged £86.24 for his wife's visit visa when the published fee, set by Parliament, is £80.

An increase above the actual fee of approximately 8%.

For someone applying for settlement this means an increase from the actual fee of £851 to £919.08!

He queried this with the Bangkok embassy and their first reply was meaningless waffle.

So he queried it again and this time did receive a more detailed reply, which included:

"Why can't I pay in GBP?

It is currently only possible to pay in one designated currency from the approved list of currencies, due to current IT constraints. However it is intended that at some point in the future applicants will be able to select a currency of their choice from the approved list, including GBP, allowing customers to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of each currency in relation to the methods of payment available to them. We cannot offer a timescale on this development at present."

Whilst I don't understand why 'current IT constraints' mean it is not possible to use more than one currency, that is not really the issue.

The issue is that the currency chosen by UKVI is USD, not Sterling and the exchange rate used by UKVI means that the amount actually paid once converted to Sterling is at least 8% above the actual fee.

I appreciate that many visa applicants will use their credit and or debit card from a bank in their home country and so whichever currency UKVI used the charge would have to be converted to the local currency by the applicant's bank.

However, many applicants have a British or UK resident sponsor, all settlement applicants do; and it is usually the sponsor who pays the application fee.

So a British citizen paying for a service provided by the British government which has a fee set in Sterling by the British Parliament is being financially penalised because UKVI, an agency of the British government, has decided for some reason to set their fees in USD and use an exchange rate which means they make a profit over and above the actual fee.

Why is this?

Why can they not use Sterling?

Yours,

Following theoldgit's post about payment in China, I sent another one on Monday:

Sir,

Further to the email I sent of Friday 24th January, copied below, I have now been reliably informed that visa applicants in China are charged in Chinese Yuan; even though they use the same online system as applicants in Bangkok and pay through the same company; World Pay.

Therefore, the reply from the Bangkok embassy that UKVI's current IT constraints mean that it is only possible to use one currency is obviously wrong.

Why are applicant's in Thailand charged in USD, but applicant's in China charged in Yuan?

Surely the best and fairest way would be to either charge all applicants in local currency or all applicants in Sterling. Why can this not be done?

Yours,

I strongly urge as many others to send similar emails, the address is: [email protected]

Also, if you have personally been effected by this then I encourage you to contact your own MP as well.

Doing this may not achieve anything; but doing nothing will definitely achieve nothing.

[Basil B]

To think the persons who dream up these ideas probably got a bonus, words fail me...

The Home Office was "irresponsible" to pay its staff more than £6.5m in bonuses "despite poor performance in many areas", MPs say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25966552

[Tony M]

I have just paid for, and downloaded, a document from HM Land Registry ( which is, of course, a government department, as is UKV&I ). The online fee is in GBP, I paid by debit card, and the exact amount was taken in GBP. Guess who processed the online payment ? Correct - WorldPay.

[theoldgit]

I have just paid for, and downloaded, a document from HM Land Registry ( which is, of course, a government department, as is UKV&I ). The online fee is in GBP, I paid by debit card, and the exact amount was taken in GBP. Guess who processed the online payment ? Correct - WorldPay.

I think you know who are telling us porkies Tony, or should I say being economical with the truth.

[Tony M]

I have just paid for, and downloaded, a document from HM Land Registry ( which is, of course, a government department, as is UKV&I ). The online fee is in GBP, I paid by debit card, and the exact amount was taken in GBP. Guess who processed the online payment ? Correct - WorldPay.

I think you know who are telling us porkies Tony, or should I say being economical with the truth.

I have today written to Mark Harper too. He might be a bit busy today, with the 3rd reading of the new Immigration Bill ( which removes the right of appeal in settlement applications, of course), but maybe he will get round to reading my email one day soon !

[7by7]

I have today written to Mark Harper too. He might be a bit busy today, with the 3rd reading of the new Immigration Bill ( which removes the right of appeal in settlement applications, of course), but maybe he will get round to reading my email one day soon !

Sent my first email a week ago, Tony. Not even had an acknowledgement of receipt yet!

Edited to add quote as gone over page.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 7by7

[TCA]

I have today written to Mark Harper too. He might be a bit busy today, with the 3rd reading of the new Immigration Bill (which removes the right of appeal in settlement applications, of course), but maybe he will get round to reading my email one day soon !

I just emailed him as well. Made sure to refute all the supposed explanations given already in the various responses posted on this thread. Hoping for a reply before my wife applies for FLR in 2 years time!

[nottarf]

I have also emailed Mark Harper and I have written a letter to my MP.

[TCA]

Doesn't look like we'll be getting replies from Mr Harper any time soon then:

Immigration minister Mark Harper quits over cleaner's visa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26101442

[thomasteve]

Doesn't look like we'll be getting replies from Mr Harper any time soon then:

Immigration minister Mark Harper quits over cleaner's visa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26101442

Lame excuse -couldn't find the papers....were they genuine in the first place....

[GarryUK]

So really we've got nowhere in determining why this has been done to us: Everything else seems to be payable in GBP, only visa fees look to be in USD. And the standard responses they are sending out hold no weight as India and China don't have to pay in USD. While it wouldn't make it acceptable, it would at least be understandable if someone were honest enough to admit they've wasted millions on a new IT system and screwed up because no-one thought to make sure it could handle GBP. And now the immigration minister has resigned we'll be back to the beginning (not that he'd read or responded to any of our communications, so perhaps that's where we've been all along).

I go to Thailand at the end of March (protests permitting) and we'll be applying for my baby's first British passport and the wife's settlement visa. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll have to pay the former in GBP and the latter in USD, and that I'll be screwed in doing so.

Anyone thought of setting up a Facebook protest page? Please don't nominate me to start it, I don't know how... but maybe if it got a decent amount of support then firecracker films who PM'd me about making a Channel 4 documentary about people looking for love abroard and applying for tourist or finance visas might be interested in taking up the story as this is certainly related. I didn't respond to that contact as I wasn't sure if they were legit, but maybe it's worth further investigation?

Edit: Just found this, so maybe the request was indeed legit...

http://www.firecrackerfilms.com/documentaries/married-in-britain/

Edited February 9, 2014 by GarryUK

[GarryUK]

From the BBC news story:

Junior Home Office minister James Brokenshire, MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup, has been promoted to the immigration brief.

Mr Brokenshire said in a tweet: "Honoured to have been asked to take on the role of immigration minister and to continue reducing net migration to sustainable levels."

In a minor reshuffle, Conservative MP Karen Bradley will take up Mr Brokenshire's former post.

Great, not only do we get a JUNIOR minister in the role, but he seems to think his brief is to stop people wanting to move to the UK. Perhaps this fee fiasco has always been intentional? What you need to be doing is stop giving immigrants houses, cars and benefits and then maybe there won't be so many coming here for the free ride, then those of us with legitimate partners won't be given such a hard time when we want our family to live together.

Edited February 9, 2014 by GarryUK

[Basil B]

So really we've got nowhere in determining why this has been done to us: Everything else seems to be payable in GBP, only visa fees look to be in USD. And the standard responses they are sending out hold no weight as India and China don't have to pay in USD. While it wouldn't make it acceptable, it would at least be understandable if someone were honest enough to admit they've wasted millions on a new IT system and screwed up because no-one thought to make sure it could handle GBP. And now the immigration minister has resigned we'll be back to the beginning (not that he'd read or responded to any of our communications, so perhaps that's where we've been all along).

I go to Thailand at the end of March (protests permitting) and we'll be applying for my baby's first British passport and the wife's settlement visa. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll have to pay the former in GBP and the latter in USD, and that I'll be screwed in doing so.

Anyone thought of setting up a Facebook protest page? Please don't nominate me to start it, I don't know how... but maybe if it got a decent amount of support then firecracker films who PM'd me about making a Channel 4 documentary about people looking for love abroard and applying for tourist or finance visas might be interested in taking up the story as this is certainly related. I didn't respond to that contact as I wasn't sure if they were legit, but maybe it's worth further investigation?

Edit: Just found this, so maybe the request was indeed legit...

http://www.firecrackerfilms.com/documentaries/married-in-britain/

With regard to visa fees these are normally in local currency and I assume that in a number of countries where the currency is unstable they (UKVI) chose to use the USD, I think what many of us are thinking is that many visas are purchased by persons who wish to pay in £Stirling at the price stipulated by parliament, IMHO a very valid point not just Thailand but worldwide, but when the minister responsible can not get it right on the validity of his own employees to work legally in the UK do not expect any action on this soon.

[ubonjoe]

Doesn't look like we'll be getting replies from Mr Harper any time soon then:

Immigration minister Mark Harper quits over cleaner's visa

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26101442

This is in the news forum now: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/703236-uk-immigration-minister-mark-harper-quits-over-cleaners-visa/#entry7415379

[GarryUK]

Anyone thought of setting up a Facebook protest page? Please don't nominate me to start it, I don't know how... but maybe if it got a decent amount of support then firecracker films who PM'd me about making a Channel 4 documentary about people looking for love abroard and applying for tourist or finance visas might be interested in taking up the story as this is certainly related.

Hehehe, obviously I meant fiance...

[TCA]

While it wouldn't make it acceptable, it would at least be understandable if someone were honest enough to admit they've wasted millions on a new IT system and screwed up because no-one thought to make sure it could handle GBP.

And now the immigration minister has resigned we'll be back to the beginning.

I'd like to hope that our emails will still be answered seeing as they went to an email for the minister, not Mark Harper directly.

By the way, this issue has nothing to do with new IT systems. UKVI outsource their online visa payment collection to WorldPay, who can collect any currency they're asked to.

[Basil B]

While it wouldn't make it acceptable, it would at least be understandable if someone were honest enough to admit they've wasted millions on a new IT system and screwed up because no-one thought to make sure it could handle GBP.

And now the immigration minister has resigned we'll be back to the beginning.

I'd like to hope that our emails will still be answered seeing as they went to an email for the minister, not Mark Harper directly.

By the way, this issue has nothing to do with new IT systems. UKVI outsource their online visa payment collection to WorldPay, who can collect any currency they're asked to.

They do not need WorldPay or any other outsourced profit making agency to set up a bank account to receive bank transfers with a "Payment Reference" (that would be the visa application number), not exactly rocket sciences.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Basil B

[TCA]

Bank transfers? Sure, it could be done. Payments flying in from everywhere in different currencies resulting in different amounts of the "approved currency" after translation. Unless you wanted bank accounts for each currency or force customers to transfer payments in one specific currency. Easier, they could just operate their own credit card processing. As you said, not rocket science. But it comes at a cost and so they choose to outsource. I don't have an issue with that. My issue is with their choice of USD, plain and simple.

[theoldgit]

Can we please keep answers to the topic of the UK Visa Application Fee being charged in US Dollars here in Thailand, I don't think we need to know the salary scales for cleaners in the Royal Household.

[7by7]

Well, it's taken a while; but I've at last got a reply.

7th March 2014

Thank you for your email correspondence of 244 January to the Immigration Minister, about our online visa fees. Your enquiry has been forwarded to Midlands, East of England and International responder hub, as we have responsibility for entry clearance matters. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your enquiry.

UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) is embarking on a programme of modernisation, which includes moving to an online application process where almost all customers around the world will apply and pay for their visas online. UKVI has already successfully launched online payment for visas in over 90 countries.

Customers in Thailand already apply for their visa online, and as from 16 December 2013, all applicants applying in Thailand have also been required to pay for their visa application online, using a MasterCard, Visa, Debit or pre-payment card. Additional online methods of payment are expected to become available in due course, such as other payment cards and e-wallets.

Online payment is mandatory for all customers and other methods of payment, including payment at the visa application centre, are no longer accepted. Online payment allows a more streamlined application process and is consistent with a wider global trend to online transactions and payments; it helps to cut costs in the management of the visas operation which in turn helps to keep visa fees down, and it is also a safer system for both customers and staff as it reduces the risk associated with handling large amounts of cash during the visa application process.

Currently in Thailand it is only possible for customers to pay for their visa in US dollars although we expect further currency options to be made available as we progress.

We have considered all options carefully and chosen the most beneficial for all concerned. The currency options are not driven by the UK Government but by global financial services markets, banking regulations and operational requirements within our global visa services network and our online payment service providers. Alternative currency measures may involve high-cost local arrangements with the banks and online payment providers in each country, which when added to the visa application fee would make the process substantially more expensive for all applicants. This would far outweigh the currency conversion fees suffered by applicants who do not own a payment card intended primarily for use in the required currency.

UKVI will not refund currency conversion fees or processing charges levied by card issuers.

Yours sincerely


Cliff Brown
MPs Account Managers Team | Midlands, East of England & International Responder Hub

Utter rubbish; he doesn't say why it is "only possible for applicants in Thailand to pay in US dollars" not Sterling.

I can only assume it's so UKVI make a nice extra bit of cabbage by using the consular exchange rate to convert the fee in Sterling to Baht, and then a bit more converting the Baht fee into USD!