Warong says PM Yingluck was aware of the fake G-to-G rice deals with China

[robblok]

Can anyone explain just what exactly the allegation is re the "fake" G-to-G rice deals with China, or cite to an explantion?

I remember when YL met with the Chinese Premier last year, and the Thai government at that time claimed the Chinese govt was going to buy something like 1 million tons per year of rice. But as best as I recall, the Chinese government at that time never said anything about such a deal.

So is the allegation that the whole thing was just false and there was no deal. Or, are we talking about the details of some actual deal just being different from what had been publicly reported, such as the sale being to private intermediaries instead of direct to the Chinese govt?

Is this the "fake" deal the NACC is currently looking at? None of the various posts on the supposed investigation ever actually detail the specifics.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702002-china-cancels-thailand-rice-deal-amid-probe/?hl=%20china%20%20to%20%20buy%20%20thai%20%20rice

As far as i know the rice program was set up this way that only on G2G deals could they sell it a price lower as what they bought it for. What supposedly happened (and i hope they can prove it) is that rice under a G2G deal was sold cheap.. but not to a government but to a PTP supporter who resold it back to the government at the high rice program scam. So that is 2 times the loss on the same rice and a great way for the PTP to steal.

That is one and other fake deals were just deals reported to give the impression that rice was being sold while it was not, plus they never released details because else they had to admit they were making a loss and had to adjust the budget.

They set up the program this way saying it could not make a loss thus the total government spending stayed on paper within limits while the reality was a totally different thing big losses were made that should have been deducted from the national budget and then other projects (that they also stole from) would not have been so high and then they could not have stolen so much money or done all the populist scams they like.

[Rosco911]

Wonder if she will be going to the winter Olympics before or after the charges.

[kamahele]

She can always claim that she didn't attend the meeting and therefore didn't know and be telling the truth!

[SOTIRIOS]

...what is it called when a Prime Minister scams her own country......X10......

[tomacht8]

What is with the Bt500-million cashier's cheque issued by Somkid Ruansupa, who lives in a two-storey house in Bang Khae.?

What is with the two senior officials of the Public Warehouse Organisation which were interrogated by Udon Thani police concerning 34,000 sacks of rice, worth Bt80 million, which disappeared after being moved out of Udon Thani warehouse for rice mills in Lop Buri on March 5-26 last year?

What is with this Nattawut transport companies? Down in Nakon Si Tamarat where they carry out rice and nobody knows where this rice went to. Same for Ang Tong.

Thailand lacks an independent investigative authority against organized crime.

The DSI has failed completely here and should be resolved.

Also still missing a strong independent tax police.

Unusual asset increases're here more than obvious.

Furthermore, Thailand lacks a functioning witness protection program.

Likewise, too few resources for the anti-corruption authorities.

About 25,000 cases are pending.

Such authorities do not cost any tax money!

If such authorities / institutions are well managed, they make the pay off by itself.

For the examination of the rice scheme they must be faster.

At every lost day, more and more evidence being destroyed.

[Local Drunk]

Seize her ummm... assette and create a new division in the Shin Empire. A brothel where farmers can go to get screwed.

[slapout]

The only problem with the G 2 G deal was that it was with local Government in China rather than National Government. These deals have been going on for years with no problem. Now they make a big fuss just to put more pressure on YL.

Me thinks there is/was more than the 'only problem' in this make believe deal. The Chinese has adopted a strong response to corruption, thieft, etc recently, in their unique way of combating past and future diverting/misapproation of funds. Thailand is a developing country and thus will have stive to catch up with the rest of the world's fight against corruption. The worlds' population as a whole are monitoring and demanding justice against those who approach a countries resources as a ATM card for their personal use.

This is/will put pressure on many more indivaduals, than the caretaker PM. Although many are rightfully demanding that she be at head of the line as this group are subjected to the rule of law and the punishment it mandates.

[ikurauni]

If the PM knew about the fake deals and did nothing about it, it shows that she is one of the criminals. People are watching that if the PM would resign.

People want to see the truth but we never know what kind of stories will be created. It is interesting to follow this case.

I hope that the persons who is doing the investigation have not been or will not been paid by Thaksin. I am not surprised if Thaksin would do anything to cover up the truth. But I don't think he can cover up everyone. This mess is getting too big and the public wants to see the fact.

This is like watching a movie. We will see.

[LeamchabangLarry]

If the PM knew about the fake deals and did nothing about it, it shows that she is one of the criminals. People are watching that if the PM would resign.

People want to see the truth but we never know what kind of stories will be created. It is interesting to follow this case.

I hope that the persons who is doing the investigation have not been or will not been paid by Thaksin. I am not surprised if Thaksin would do anything to cover up the truth. But I don't think he can cover up everyone. This mess is getting too big and the public wants to see the fact.

This is like watching a movie. We will see.

She was chairwoman of the whole busted blatant rice graft scheme. It really doesn't matter whether she knew or not. Accountability flows upward

[EyesWideOpen]

False

Yingluck knew nothing about the scam

she was busy packing the money they gave her to go on a shopping trip

Nice photo. Which MP's house is that taken at? Or maybe the new transportation secretary..... Lots of posters on TV said the rice deals were phony. So it should stand to reason that Yingluck knew as well.......

[EyesWideOpen]

If the PM knew about the fake deals and did nothing about it, it shows that she is one of the criminals. People are watching that if the PM would resign.

People want to see the truth but we never know what kind of stories will be created. It is interesting to follow this case.

I hope that the persons who is doing the investigation have not been or will not been paid by Thaksin. I am not surprised if Thaksin would do anything to cover up the truth. But I don't think he can cover up everyone. This mess is getting too big and the public wants to see the fact.

This is like watching a movie. We will see.

She was chairwoman of the whole busted blatant rice graft scheme. It really doesn't matter whether she knew or not. Accountability flows upward

It doesn't in Thailand. Here it is the opposite. The higher up you are

on the food chain, makes you like teflon...

[robblok]

If the PM knew about the fake deals and did nothing about it, it shows that she is one of the criminals. People are watching that if the PM would resign.

People want to see the truth but we never know what kind of stories will be created. It is interesting to follow this case.

I hope that the persons who is doing the investigation have not been or will not been paid by Thaksin. I am not surprised if Thaksin would do anything to cover up the truth. But I don't think he can cover up everyone. This mess is getting too big and the public wants to see the fact.

This is like watching a movie. We will see.

She was chairwoman of the whole busted blatant rice graft scheme. It really doesn't matter whether she knew or not. Accountability flows upward

Yes if she did not know she needed to know.. she is responsible by virtue of chairing it. By almost never appearing there she might have known little but that was her mistake. It was her duty and responsibility. So if heads need to roll hers is the first in line.

Its like saying but the director did not know anything about his company going down... that is gross negligence and he would be held accountable too.

If the NACC can get all its proof then its the end of the PTP this program will be their downfall.

[smileydude]

Can anyone explain just what exactly the allegation is re the "fake" G-to-G rice deals with China, or cite to an explantion?

I remember when YL met with the Chinese Premier last year, and the Thai government at that time claimed the Chinese govt was going to buy something like 1 million tons per year of rice. But as best as I recall, the Chinese government at that time never said anything about such a deal.

So is the allegation that the whole thing was just false and there was no deal. Or, are we talking about the details of some actual deal just being different from what had been publicly reported, such as the sale being to private intermediaries instead of direct to the Chinese govt?

Is this the "fake" deal the NACC is currently looking at? None of the various posts on the supposed investigation ever actually detail the specifics.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702002-china-cancels-thailand-rice-deal-amid-probe/?hl=%20china%20%20to%20%20buy%20%20thai%20%20rice

As far as i know the rice program was set up this way that only on G2G deals could they sell it a price lower as what they bought it for. What supposedly happened (and i hope they can prove it) is that rice under a G2G deal was sold cheap.. but not to a government but to a PTP supporter who resold it back to the government at the high rice program scam. So that is 2 times the loss on the same rice and a great way for the PTP to steal.

That is one and other fake deals were just deals reported to give the impression that rice was being sold while it was not, plus they never released details because else they had to admit they were making a loss and had to adjust the budget.

They set up the program this way saying it could not make a loss thus the total government spending stayed on paper within limits while the reality was a totally different thing big losses were made that should have been deducted from the national budget and then other projects (that they also stole from) would not have been so high and then they could not have stolen so much money or done all the populist scams they like.

I'd like to add information I heard from an interview from a rice miller who testified before the NACC.

The government purchased 26.75 million tons of rice in 2012 and 2013 thru the rice-pledging scheme.

The government sold 12.75 million tons.

14 million tons should be currently kept in storage (but is mysteriously spontaneously combusting).

The government purchased the rice from farmers at 29 baht/kg (under the 15,000 baht/ton promise)

The government sold the rice to middlemen for 11 baht/kg for an income of 140,000 million baht.

The middle men sold the rice to exporters for 20 baht/kg for an income of 255,000 million baht.

The middlemen who were colluding with the government made 115,000 million baht in profit.

The government sold rice at a loss of 229,500 million baht.

The government currently owes famers 130,000 million baht.

If the government sells the remaining 14 million tons at a market price of 20 baht/kilo they should be able to generate an income of 282,800 million baht to pay back the farmers but they can't because:

There probably isn't actually 14 million tons of rice in storage (already sold off?)

The rice quality in storage is questionable because the quality is mixed up so no buyers dare risk setting a buying price for an unknown quality of rice. Hom mali grade A rice outside, crap moldy rice inside?

China imports 5.2 million tons of rice per year through their G to G organizaton.

Approximately 2.6 for short grain rice and 2.6 for long grain rice.

The Thai government claimed to have inked a deal for the sale of 5 million tons (G to G) for long grain rice over a period of 5 years so thats 1 million/ton/year.

Sounded fishy since China imports its 2.6 million tons of long grain rice from India and Vietnam also so 1 million/year from Thailand alone sounds improbable.

Dr. Warong checked with the Chinese agency responsible for G to G rice imports and they said they have no record of a deal with Thailand. PTP claims it did the deal with a local Chinese government but it was discovered that the company was a sports equipment company, not dealing with rice. Fishy again.

The NACC is gathering evidence that the G to G claim was concocted to claim they are selling rice but in actuality they are selling it thru middlemen and skimming off profits.

Edited February 18, 2014 by smileydude

[SICHONSTEVE]

This bloke is really sharp. The whole world knew it was a bogus deal.

Yes, but its a little bit more than this as it seems confirmation that Yingluck was aware of the dodgy dealings. That in itself is another matter, as being chairperson of the committee overseeing the scam she is responsible for its actions.

I surmise that by not going to any of the meetings it was designed to shield her through claiming that she did not know about these fake G2G contracts. Even so, that does not get her off the hook as there must have been minutes of meetings and reports that would have revealed what they were up to.

I also assume that the faux pas of making her chairperson was Thaksin's idea - I have a funny feeling that this will be the final piece of the jigsaw that will be Yingluck and her governments undoing!! Now isn't that ironic!!!

Edited February 18, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[dominique355]

Can anyone explain just what exactly the allegation is re the "fake" G-to-G rice deals with China, or cite to an explantion?

I remember when YL met with the Chinese Premier last year, and the Thai government at that time claimed the Chinese govt was going to buy something like 1 million tons per year of rice. But as best as I recall, the Chinese government at that time never said anything about such a deal.

So is the allegation that the whole thing was just false and there was no deal. Or, are we talking about the details of some actual deal just being different from what had been publicly reported, such as the sale being to private intermediaries instead of direct to the Chinese govt?

Is this the "fake" deal the NACC is currently looking at? None of the various posts on the supposed investigation ever actually detail the specifics.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702002-china-cancels-thailand-rice-deal-amid-probe/?hl=%20china%20%20to%20%20buy%20%20thai%20%20rice

As far as i know the rice program was set up this way that only on G2G deals could they sell it a price lower as what they bought it for. What supposedly happened (and i hope they can prove it) is that rice under a G2G deal was sold cheap.. but not to a government but to a PTP supporter who resold it back to the government at the high rice program scam. So that is 2 times the loss on the same rice and a great way for the PTP to steal.

That is one and other fake deals were just deals reported to give the impression that rice was being sold while it was not, plus they never released details because else they had to admit they were making a loss and had to adjust the budget.

They set up the program this way saying it could not make a loss thus the total government spending stayed on paper within limits while the reality was a totally different thing big losses were made that should have been deducted from the national budget and then other projects (that they also stole from) would not have been so high and then they could not have stolen so much money or done all the populist scams they like.

smells like money laundering to me.

[rickirs]

Warong "believed caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was fully aware of the fake government-to-government rice deal between Thailand and China." More testimony will be taken to support the charge of a fake deal. I would be more impressed of a fair investigation if former PTP leaders or nonpolitical third parties such as Chinese officials gave such testimony but apparently there are none. So this will be a "he said, she said" contest with no concrete evidence. The burden of producing hard evidence seems to have a low threshhold.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Can anyone explain just what exactly the allegation is re the "fake" G-to-G rice deals with China, or cite to an explantion?

I remember when YL met with the Chinese Premier last year, and the Thai government at that time claimed the Chinese govt was going to buy something like 1 million tons per year of rice. But as best as I recall, the Chinese government at that time never said anything about such a deal.

So is the allegation that the whole thing was just false and there was no deal. Or, are we talking about the details of some actual deal just being different from what had been publicly reported, such as the sale being to private intermediaries instead of direct to the Chinese govt?

Is this the "fake" deal the NACC is currently looking at? None of the various posts on the supposed investigation ever actually detail the specifics.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702002-china-cancels-thailand-rice-deal-amid-probe/?hl=%20china%20%20to%20%20buy%20%20thai%20%20rice

As far as i know the rice program was set up this way that only on G2G deals could they sell it a price lower as what they bought it for. What supposedly happened (and i hope they can prove it) is that rice under a G2G deal was sold cheap.. but not to a government but to a PTP supporter who resold it back to the government at the high rice program scam. So that is 2 times the loss on the same rice and a great way for the PTP to steal.

That is one and other fake deals were just deals reported to give the impression that rice was being sold while it was not, plus they never released details because else they had to admit they were making a loss and had to adjust the budget.

They set up the program this way saying it could not make a loss thus the total government spending stayed on paper within limits while the reality was a totally different thing big losses were made that should have been deducted from the national budget and then other projects (that they also stole from) would not have been so high and then they could not have stolen so much money or done all the populist scams they like.

smells like money laundering to me.

More akin to a Ponzi scheme I would say.

[robblok]

Warong "believed caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was fully aware of the fake government-to-government rice deal between Thailand and China." More testimony will be taken to support the charge of a fake deal. I would be more impressed of a fair investigation if former PTP leaders or nonpolitical third parties such as Chinese officials gave such testimony but apparently there are none. So this will be a "he said, she said" contest with no concrete evidence. The burden of producing hard evidence seems to have a low threshhold.

Hard to get them to testify about something that did not happen. There were no Chinese deals. So they can't say much about this. Do you really think they want to be dragged into this. The proof will be collected (i hope)

[sixfiftysevenmember]

When this whole sorry saga is over I suggest that TV make an award to 'Joe the Poster" who throughout has seen the lighter side of everything. He must be a very happy guy within himself. Congratulations Sir!

[dominique355]

This bloke is really sharp. The whole world knew it was a bogus deal.

Yes, but its a little bit more than this as it seems confirmation that Yingluck was aware of the dodgy dealings. That in itself is another matter, as being chairperson of the committee overseeing the scam she is responsible for its actions.

I surmise that by not going to any of the meetings it was designed to shield her through claiming that she did not know about these fake G2G contracts. Even though that does not get her off the hook as there must have been minutes of meetings and reports that would have revealed what they were up to.

I also assume that the faux pas of making her chairperson was Thaksin's idea - I have a funny feeling that this will be the final piece of the jigsaw that will be Yingluck and her governments undoing!! Isn't that ironic!!!

Brilliant observation. Let's just remember how Tarit (the DSI guy) got himself off the hook from any responsibility for the 2010 crack-down. He was a member of the CRES, together with Abhisit and Suthep. But strange enough, only Abhisit and Suthep were charged with murder. Tarit's excuse: He was not present at one meeting. (No, there is no conflict of interest at all!!!)

Let's see how Yingluck will try to weasel out of this.

[SICHONSTEVE]

If the PM knew about the fake deals and did nothing about it, it shows that she is one of the criminals. People are watching that if the PM would resign.

People want to see the truth but we never know what kind of stories will be created. It is interesting to follow this case.

I hope that the persons who is doing the investigation have not been or will not been paid by Thaksin. I am not surprised if Thaksin would do anything to cover up the truth. But I don't think he can cover up everyone. This mess is getting too big and the public wants to see the fact.

This is like watching a movie. We will see.

It is not difficult to see the farmers anger at her refusing to meet them. However, what will it be like when they find out that she was aware of all of the irregularities going on in trying to hide the massive problems of this idiotic scam.

[bigbamboo]

I bet poor KY must long for those lazy, hazy, carefree days of being President of her brother's company. No one cared if you didn't show up for work..... probably quite the opposite in fact...... and her time could be so much better spent on doing all those things any rich hi-so middle aged mum would rather be doing instead of floundering around in the cesspool known as Thai politics.

And now she is in danger of ending up in court again like most of her family have at one time or another. Life isn't always easy for poor little rich girls.

[Nickymaster]

So what?

Even Tharit Pengdit, the secretary-general of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) knew it and he doesn't care neither.

And THAT's why so many people are so angry.

[Sparkles]

I bet poor KY must long for those lazy, hazy, carefree days of being President of her brother's company. No one cared if you didn't show up for work..... probably quite the opposite in fact...... and her time could be so much better spent on doing all those things any rich hi-so middle aged mum would rather be doing instead of floundering around in the cesspool known as Thai politics.

And now she is in danger of ending up in court again like most of her family have at one time or another. Life isn't always easy for poor little rich girls.

I see a scenario where Yingluck says to her brother "enough is enough" I'm going home to be a Mum again,not that life will ever be the same for her.She will be hounded until the day she dies, or moves OS to avoid lengthy battles in court. Enter stage right Chalerm as caretaker PM...sort of scary situation.

[schondie]

How in God's name do you expect to get away with making such a claim and expect to get away with it?

Where they praying that China would buy some rice or people would just forget that announcement was ever made?

It truly beggars belief that these people have ever been allowed out unsupervised.

[Local Drunk]

I bet poor KY must long for those lazy, hazy, carefree days of being President of her brother's company. No one cared if you didn't show up for work..... probably quite the opposite in fact...... and her time could be so much better spent on doing all those things any rich hi-so middle aged mum would rather be doing instead of floundering around in the cesspool known as Thai politics.

And now she is in danger of ending up in court again like most of her family have at one time or another. Life isn't always easy for poor little rich girls.

The thing thing is... she'll never be accepted into Bkk society again. That's a real bitter pill to swallow. She'll follow the path of her brother.

[klauskunkel]

Warong says PM was aware of the fake G-to-G rice deals with China

Of course she was aware, she just didn't understand what it all meant...

Edited February 18, 2014 by klauskunkel

[HUAHIN62]

Again the Reds are conveniently noticeably missing from this discussion...

Their always missing from rice scam discussion

Some of us believe in the rule of law and YS should be granted the same opportunity as Suthep and AV to have the chance to prove their case in court. To put someone on trail in the media without having any hard evidence is stupid and irresponsible. Lets give YS, Suthep and AV chance to clear their names in fair trails where non of the judges have bought, but that is maybe too much to ask as in Thailand.

[smedly]

The only problem with the G 2 G deal was that it was with local Government in China rather than National Government. These deals have been going on for years with no problem. Now they make a big fuss just to put more pressure on YL.

Really ? you think so ?

From another thread on TV

you people want to know what this is about

The government once announced that the sale of stockpiled rice would be done under a G2G (government to government) arrangement via a Chinese company called GSSG Import & Export Corporation, whose sole appointed agent in Thailand is Mr. Natthanit Sojirakul, a.k.a. 'Palm' who is the personal assistant of Udonthani MP Rapheephan Phongrueangrong, wife of red shirt leader Arisman Phongrueangrong.

Mr. Natthanit in turn issued a formal letter appointing as his representative Mr. Nimol Rakdee, who is the right hand man of Sia Piang.

It was Mr. Nimol Rakdee's job to purchase rice from the government under the G2G scheme via the Department of Foreign Trade. Sia Piang then takes the rice which was sold at a price below market rates due to the fact that there was no public auction as per G2G regulations, and sells them to the rice mills at market rates.

The government loses money once because Sia Piang pockets the difference between the G2G price and the market rates. The rice mills then sell the rice back to the government, causing the government to lose money the twice because the government is obliged to buy the rice at 40% above the market rate.

It is probably not negligence or coincidence that causes the government loses money in this way. More likely because Sia Piang (circled) is a close associate of Thaksin.

Selling the rice under a G2G scheme (to avoid a public tender) is actually a scheme to sell the rice to corporations belonging to people close to Thaksin Shinawatra.

so maybe you can explain the above

[Sphere]

"Aware" as in lights were on, but nobody was at home?