Thai rice-plediging scheme: Farmers to be paid via issuance of public bonds

[Mackie]

It hurts that the farmers will get paid, doesn't it.

All this fake sympathy and understanding of their needs BS.

feel the pain boys, feel the pain.

It hurts everyone that the famers will get paid by worthless paper. Don't you understand that? The caretaker government does not have the power to issue government bonds. Farmers want real money. Where is it? Thin air?

[Butcherbird]

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Why is issuing bonds not the same as borrowing from a bank? Is government debt not being increased?

It is being increased. You are correct.

The public essentially loans money to the government at an interest rate and is therefore extending the debt for the next government

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I agree. This is a caretaker government which by this country's constitution is NOT allowed to raise any new debts of any kind. If they continue down this path of issueing bonds ( for any reason ) then whoever buys these bonds is taking a considerable risk. Thus the idea of offering them to the public or other government ministries, rather than to commercial banks, etc, who have already demonstrated that they recognise the forward risk both legally and financially.

[Arjay]

Great another piece of paper attached with promises

[Valentine]

No one is against the farmers getting paid no matter what side of the political divide but now we have this plan to rob the Vayupak Fund which is more smoke & mirrors to keep attention away from the missing 100's of billions of Baht. The fund is supposed to generate 3% returns to investors & more recently funds from it were going to be mobilised for the flood prevention scheme which seems to have gone nowhere.

I assume the farmers don't care about the missing billions or where the money comes from as long as they get paid but surely the must be aware of the increases they have had to pay for labour & fertilizer which may well offset any gains they make from the rice scheme. All that missing money could have been used to improve the farmer's lot in so many ways directly beneficial to them but that would mean all the others would miss out on this huge pot of gold.

[lostinsurin]

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It hurts that the farmers will get paid, doesn't it.

All this fake sympathy and understanding of their needs BS.

feel the pain boys, feel the pain.

It hurts everyone that the famers will get paid by worthless paper. Don't you understand that? The caretaker government does not have the power to issue government bonds. Farmers want real money. Where is it? Thin air?

To all that replied

Good morning boys, that woke you up!!!

I will miss this conflict when it's over, It's so much more fun than the usual " where can I get a visa BS post" don't you think.

not talking about the loss of life side of things, just the keyboard stuff.

[metisdead]

Insulting posts and replies have been removed.

[p_brownstone]

The Government tried to do this in November - they issued Baht 130 Billion in Bonds but only just over 50% was subscribed - I can't see the new issue being any better received.

Patrick

[jaapfries]

"The bonds would be sold to small investors, because it is believed a lot of people are interested in helping farmers, but large-scale investors or state enterprises are not perspective investors, he added."

Of course large-scale investors aren't prospective bond buyers. They didn't get rich by being stupid.

But can they raise enough from the small investor? 130 billion baht is a ton of money, and that's what they owe until the next rice crop comes in.

This does remind me of the "brilliant" scheme conjured-up by Taksin, when in 2007 he wanted to purchase Liverpool Football Club, by organizing a State Lottery in Thailand in order to raise the HUGE funds required for this purchase. This is no different ploy and I'll put money in the fact that this is a "brain-child' of the Dubai Overlord himself . . . . .

Of course: this will never happen, but the mere fact that they're trying-it-on, is already very disgusting, right ?

[pmugghc]

I don't understand this Vayupak fund. But whatever mechanism, why wasn't this done 5-6 months ago? Seems Kittirat is just scrambling from one scheme to another.

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[Bung]

Cue the sentimental advertising for the bond sale. The government want other hard working Thais to buy these bonds and in affect pay for the rice pledging bill. They have no money to pay the farmers themselves or if they do have the money they aren't giving it up ( more likely)

Sorts out the farmer problem now and deal with angry bond buyers later.

Good strategy.

[Thait Spot]

Cue the sentimental advertising for the bond sale. The government want other hard working Thais to buy these bonds and in affect pay for the rice pledging bill. They have no money to pay the farmers themselves or if they do have the money they aren't giving it up ( more likely)

Sorts out the farmer problem now and deal with angry bond buyers later.

Good strategy.

Come home to a real fire.

Buy a rice farm in Isaan

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[Smokemachine]

It would be a good news for the farmers. Make sure they will receive the hard cash very soon.

[MikeThaison]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

No, the yellow shirts are just sick and tired of paying the farang price (50% more than market value) for rice and the rest of the world is paying thai price for rice.

[almafudd]

' Ongoing sales of rice ' so as usual with backs to the wall the government claims it's selling from the stockpiles.

No longer is it ' show us the money ' rather ' show us the contracts ' ( if they actually exist ).

Other countries now claiming Thailand is dumping rice on world market. Trying to involve WTO.

I know Australia has anti-dumping laws as well as most other western countries. I wonder if Thailand's selling (dumping) of rice to these countries (even indirectly) would violate this legislation?

The buyers of this rice may be stuck with it for awhile...

[julemanden]

I am with David on this one... I am not a fan of the current gov, but if these are viable ways to pay the farmers then why just now?

Although thought I read a few weeks ago about gov not being allowed to create debt for future gov?

Isn't issuing gov rice bonds creating debt? How is this different than other previous plans

Also what is the Vayupak fund? What is it's intended purpose? Is it just a general gov slush fund that can be used for anything?

Or was it specifically set up for some specific purpose to fund some other program ?

I am all for farmers getting paid, but not for doing anything to create additional debt.

The best way is to sell off all stock piles of rice first to pay the farmers... As by selling the rice, not only do you raise funds to pay farmers but you also cut costs, as less rice is storage, so daily storage costs also go down

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And so does the rice prices on the open marked!!

[crobe]

There are so many holes in this statement from Kittirat, but lets look at them critically.

1) From a promise of all farmers being paid next week, as soon as they have got them to turn around they change the story - only smaller debts - under 500k will be paid, the others will have to wait - this may then exclude a lot of the farmers cooperatives which aggregate the small farmers produce, so it could still be that many of the smaller farmers do not get paid for "at least 6 weeks" missing the next planting season

2) Even those outstanding amounts under 500k each will amount to around 70-80Bn baht in total, and so there is no guarantee that the government can raise that amount in a week - so who will be paid first?

3) It is still not clear the government in caretaker mode will be allowed to issue bonds or promissory notes as that may still violate the bar on raising of new funds - of course this will be challenged in the courts and so PTP will claim it is the EC/NACC/Constitutional courts that are blocking the payments to farmers again, but in reality this scheme could have been put in place in October before the protests and the dissolution of the parliament, but they were not willing to do this as it would have opened up the scheme to parliamentary scrutiny and questions about the rice-pledge financing.

4) The Vayapuk 1 scheme is an investment vehicle for 10 years partly funded by the public and partly by government enterprises, it is only half way through the scheme timeline. It invests in government securities, State-owned enterprises securities etc and is governed by a board and a charter of rules. although it does regularly buy and sell assets it should do so at a profit. Dumping SOE securities in this current market, where buyers would drive the price, would probably mean realising a loss - so a loss on the rice-pledging becomes another loss on the investment scheme.It is probably also not possible to ask the SOE to recapitalise the sheme - basically loaning more money to it -, as then using this money as a loan or bond to cover the BACC may violate the articles of the investment fund charter.

All in all it looks as if it will be a hard week for the caretaker government to raise any funding for the farmers by next Friday, and sales of rice may only bring in another 1-2Bn at best, so it may be argues that by the end of the month some drastic action may be needed by the PTP.

Would be interesting to know who is booking the business class seats on TG517 on Friday afternoon.

[telecom]

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It hurts that the farmers will get paid, doesn't it.

All this fake sympathy and understanding of their needs BS.

feel the pain boys, feel the pain.

How many farmers do you expect to be paid in the near future? So who is feeling pain?

And when they are finally paid, should we rejoice at another huge increase in public debt?

And which farmers will be paid ?? , the ones that voted for the Shin Dynasty , YES ... The rest Sweet FA ... Wow What a Democracy ...

Those ones are already paid.

The next ones will be the farmers who were on their way to the airport yesterday.

The AoT had just announced that it would not be buying bonds from the government, and then shortly after that, the protest was directed towards Suavanabhumi airport. Seems to me that this was all done to pressure AoT to buy these bonds.

That should be the money needed for next week.

Using the 'state enterprises' fund to produce the collateral for the bonds is basically no different to the caretaker government making extra budgetary borrowings, because the fact is they are lumbering any incumbent government with the entire repayment of these bonds. So it will almost certainly be blocked by the relative authorities.

It would also be seen as a vote buying policy using state funding, as we are clearly still in an election situation.

This operation will NOT be completed. It will only last long enough to get the money to the farmers that were on their way to the airport, and will send out a clear message to ALL the other 1 million + rice farmers not paid by next week, that if they want paid fast, get on your tractors and head straight for the airports. Your payment guarantee will be waiting there.

So this would mean that if in fact the government was really behind this attempted airport assault to pressure AoT into buying bonds, then it will end up backfiring in stellar style.

Feel the pain boys..... feel the pain.

[kikoman]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Not only are they upset that the farmers will be paid, they saw their grand dream fall apart in front of their eyes the real farmers of the central provinces realized they were playing into the hands of the anti government folks wanted no part of it and went home.

The government clearly stated they would meet with the farmers that were interested in getting paid for their rice, as they had met with the group around government house, that walked out of the meeting, bad move, If you need to pay farmers pay those that abide by the law and do not have a political agenda.

As it is clear all farmers will not be paid immediately, let those that have a political agenda be the last to be paid!

Cheers

[maeab1]

Isan has been paid.

[MK1]

The whole objective behind this bond scam is obviously to transfer the risk back on to the farmers, who in turn will potentially take out loans against the so called worthless bonds if it gets that far.

Those rice farmers who went home yesterday obviously took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

However, once the public digests this attempt to pull the wool over the rice-farmers eyes again; come Monday people will be lining up to withdraw all their funds from SC Bank too. Potentially also, the mechanism for an economic crash appears to be on the horizon.

Edited February 22, 2014 by MK1

[Suriya4]

With interest rate so low, Thai people will snap up any government bond above 5% returns.

[Briggsy]

With all the world's govts printing money to fund their short-term needs, I say buy land, buy commodities, buy non-cyclical stocks to hedge against inflation and currency devaluation.

[crobe]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Not only are they upset that the farmers will be paid, they saw their grand dream fall apart in front of their eyes the real farmers of the central provinces realized they were playing into the hands of the anti government folks wanted no part of it and went home.

The government clearly stated they would meet with the farmers that were interested in getting paid for their rice, as they had met with the group around government house, that walked out of the meeting, bad move, If you need to pay farmers pay those that abide by the law and do not have a political agenda.

As it is clear all farmers will not be paid immediately, let those that have a political agenda be the last to be paid!

Cheers

It is premature to say that the farmers will be paid next week as there have been a series of promises broken in the past 2 months.

So far they have only transferred about 235m to the BAAC for next week so there is still a long way to go as they need around 50-60bn.

Organisisng a bond auction or sale of promissory notes will take more than a week, so where, in your expert opinion, will the oustanding 50bn come from in the time

Perhaps every PTP supporter should immediately contribute, are you willing to give this current government 50k and trust you will get it back - I dont think so.

I think you may have a lot of egg on your face this time next week

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[moe666]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

I would not hold my breath waiting for this bunch to pay anyone next week, but another lie is the truth to red supporters.

[maeab1]

Why do they need to borrow money, what happened to the budget for the project?

[leosuntime]

the government is completely sick as usual, they will pass a law soon making people pay 2000 a ton

the farmers deserve to lose their money too

[Bakseeda]

Yellow shirts dont like this story because they want to block the payments for as long as possible.

The farmers know this and know that the real enemy is the 2 faces yellow shirts .... nothing has changed.

They will get their money and next election they will vote a pro thaksin gov back in to power... again and again and again

Someone who obviously does not live in Bangkok , and believes anything his wife tells him... Get a life and some common sense.. The Thaksin plan to buy up all Thailands rice and hold the world to ransom was killed dead by the Indian government lifting the ban on India selling their rice outside India and putting their supply on the world market.. India had a huge surplus but kept it for their own peoples.. but saw the chance to sell all their stockpile and give back moneys to their farmers for investment in new technologies. PTP were again caught with their panties down and well and truley shafted. The country suffers, PTP pigs at the trough made fortunes buying rice from neighbouring countries and claiming the government guaranteed price which was double their investment. The farmers lost and the country suffers... and some stupid farangs still believe in Yinluck... I bet you take a picture of her to bed with you every night... rant ended..!

[crobe]

The Government tried to do this in November - they issued Baht 130 Billion in Bonds but only just over 50% was subscribed - I can't see the new issue being any better received.

Patrick

And where did that money go?

As the only people that would contribute are from the staunchly red areas of the North and North East they could simplify the system by getting the UDD to go round to each house in the area, take the money and give to the farmers.

Or maybe I should not give them any ideas

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[smedly]

The hole won't get any deeper as someones head is in it

sell the rice - that is how you pay the scheme and farmers - yes it will be 500bilion short when all is said and done and those responsible will likely be in jail and any future government will have to explain to the people why they are paying off a huge loan

[slapout]

I am reminded of the first time my eldest child (4 at the time) asked if Santa Clause was real. For the next few years, I found a way to not lie, just evade a yes or no answer. It finally came to pass, that I was informed that there was no Santa Clause, but keep reading the Christmas want list, and placing the presents under the tree.

Its a long time to Christmas 2014, but the rice/farm situation does not look very promising for fulfillment of thetop priority on the want list. Give me money......